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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    52

    1and1 [[[billing issue]]]

    I registered a domain with 1and1 back in November 2006. I used it for a while just pointing the A records to a VPS somewhere, but forgot all about it after 6 months and the renewal period came and went...

    That was until about 2 months after the renewal date had passed, I got a letter from a debt collection agency demanding 25 for an unpaid invoice!

    I checked into this, and they had been unable to charge my credit card at the time of renewal. This was down to the card being cancelled in between first registering the domain and the renewal date.

    OK, fair enough I though, but as it's for a domain renewal, surely they would have just not renewed it? But when I checked the WHOIS record, they had renewed it! Which strikes me as a little "dull" for a company to do something for a customer without actually receiving payment.....but that's another story!

    So 1and1 had renewed a domain for me, without taking payment up front, and were now chasing me for the money!

    OK I though, maybe I need to cancel the account with 1and1? So I did, and it got cancelled, and my login information didn't work any more etc etc.

    But I got another snotty letter from the debt collection agency.

    I spoke to the Debt Collect agency, and basically said that I had to pay because of the "Terms and Conditions". I pressed the matter, but was then referred back to 1and1! I then contacted 1and1 and they basically said the same thing, but that I needed to take the matter up with the debt collection agency! Talk about going round in circles!

    So I looked into the terms and conditions, but these are woolly as you like! I did however manage to pull out once bit which said...

    4.4

    The Company agrees that for the Duration Period of this Agreement and in consideration of the payment of the Charges by the Customer it will renew the registration of domain name(s), Hosting fees, Additional services for the Renewal Period.
    OK, great I thought! 1and1 should have only renewed the domain once I paid them! Sadly, the standard response from the debt collection company when you show them stuff like this is just that you still owe the money!

    So has anyone else experienced anything like this with 1and1? I think their attitude sucks here and they are clearly trying to frighten people into paying money for domain renewals. I've spoken to their "complaints" department, and their billing department but it's like pulling teeth. The debt collection company is slow to respond, and I get the impression they they don't understand the internet very well.....

    I just don't understand how they can invoice me for a domain renewal and then chase me for it as they are doing! I'm sure it must breach some sort of consumer rights or something.

    HELP!!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    EU & USA
    Posts
    3,682
    The above Term only states they will no longer renew it now as you have now an open invoice with them.

    Like everywhere in the world if you order a service which renews (you did read the TOS didnt you?) every year, you have to pay the bill or cancel the account.

    There are more companies which renew the domains automatically, and there are thousands of customers very thankful for this service. Not all TLD's get in a cool-off period as the .com's and can be snatched at the moment its dropped.

    A bit more communication from one&one would have been more professional from their side. The moment you hire a third party to collect your money without doing everything in your power to contact the customer first is just poor business strategy imo.

    Wish you all the best to fix this mistake of yours, and think you will end up paying for the domains you still own.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    52
    Hi there,

    I agree with what you are saying in places.

    But without a legal degree, most terms and conditions you read these days make no sense... The original invoice from when I took out the domain stated 12 month registration as description of sale, and the terms and conditions I agreed to (link in original post) don't seem to clearly state they will renew automatically and then chase you to the ends of the earth for payment....

    If I'd have been contacted direct from 1and1, I probably would have renewed the domain there and then...but I've been slapped with a 15 charge from a the debt collection company and feel aggrieved that the lack of effort at communication from 1and1 is the reason I've been hit with it...

    I asked them when they sent out their reminders....Bear in mind that the domain was due for renewal on the 23rd of November....

    I have copied the dates
    that the emails have been sent to the account.

    03.01.2008
    21.01.2008
    I'm not being funny, but surely 1and1 should have send out a reminder near the time of the renewal?

    I normally use GoDaddy for domain registration, and the difference between the two operations is unbelievable.....1and1 in comparison are shoddy and come across as a bunch of crooks....

  4. #4
    So this
    [I registered a domain with 1and1 back in November 2006. I used it for a while just pointing the A records to a VPS somewhere, but forgot all about it after 6 months and the renewal period came and went...
    Means they are crooks?
    Hmmmmm what am I missing here?
    Last edited by Justin; 04-12-2008 at 01:05 PM. Reason: fixed tags

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    52
    Did you read the post?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    8,926
    Quote Originally Posted by sheanie View Post
    Did you read the post?
    I got the same message from your post.
    1. You purchased a domain from them.
    2. Your payment (with the credit card you had on file) for the renewal didn't go through -- meaning you didn't cancel it upfront, you didn't take the credit card out of their system.
    3. They're now after you for money.

    Next time, pay your bills.
    David
    Fused

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by sheanie View Post
    Did you read the post?
    ~Yes I read the post and still cant believe you are whinging about it. You started the whole issue by "forgetting" about it. Do you or did you use it for any form of business?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Next time, pay your bills.
    If a customer has to pay for a service upfront, and then they don't make payment for whatever reason, you don't supply them with the service.

    You send out reminders and what have you, but if they don't pay you, then you don't provide them with anything and you haven't lost anything.

    I just find it odd, and worrying that 1and1 sent this matter to the debt collection people instead of simply closing the account or sending out a whole host or email reminders in order to try and get the money upfront....

    A good and friendly hosting company?

    I'm arguing this because I'm annoyed with the situation. But what about all the people who are in the same boat as me and simply pay the debt collection people as soon as the letter hits their door mat?

    I don't think the situation is morally correct, and I wish I could prove it was legally suspect too.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    EU & USA
    Posts
    3,682
    I know that in some countries they have to first send a reminder by post before they can add extra charges to the invoice. Also one could argue if 15 pounds for the collection of their money is justified on domains of xx.xx amount.

    But in the end you did go into a contract i did not read, so there is little value you can give our recommendations here. I would still advise you to pay your bill and go elsewhere if you are unhappy with they way they did handle your case.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    8,926
    Sheanie,

    Their terms of service says otherwise, next time proceed through the proper cancellation procedure. If they didn't we'd have people complaining about their service being shut off because their credit card accidentally lapsed.
    David
    Fused

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    422
    Wow,

    This gives me more reasons to dislike 1and1. I got off to a bad start with them when they told me that one of my old layouts was copyrighted material to them, but they told me in exact words "it is open source to our customers." After looking up Open Source, it said that it is free to distribute, so when I told them a meaning, that backfired on what they had to say, I never heard from them again. 1and1 is a poorly managed company! That is all there is too it!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    647
    I wonder how many folks in the world are grateful that 1&1 kept them from losing their domain despite the fact that they didn't have the mind to keep up with their accounts as they should?


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Their terms of service says otherwise
    They may do. But I don't know where it says such. I'm not an expert on stuff like this, just a "lay person". So surely if someone like me is having trouble understanding their T&C's, something is wrong?

    I'd be grateful if you could point out the relevant bits in the T&C if you can be bothered!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    eastern USA
    Posts
    539
    Quote Originally Posted by dwrunyon View Post
    I wonder how many folks in the world are grateful that 1&1 kept them from losing their domain despite the fact that they didn't have the mind to keep up with their accounts as they should?
    No kidding.

    Had 1&1 not auto renew, sheanie would now be whining about that instead. You just can't win with people like this. They are ALWAYS passing the blame to someone else. It is never their FAULT.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    52
    Hey, I'll accept some blame here. I SHOULD have been up on top of everything, but life is never easy... If I'd have cancelled before the renewal, this wouldn't have happened. If I'd have not had my credit card cancelled, they would have been able to charge me and this wouldn't have happened.

    But surely it's a little unfair to send this all to debt collection instead of trying to speak to the customer? I just think it's grossly unfair to try and chase a customer in this way...

    Who do you use for hosting and what would they have done had your payment method not work when one of your domains came up for renewal?

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