Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    67

    Libellous website: who to sue?

    An organization I am associated with has a problem. Someone has put libellous content on the internet regarding this organization. The domain name ownership of the offending site is protected by privacyprotect.org.

    The organization is considering serving legal notice to the domain name registrar. In addition, it would like to be able to serve legal notice to the company hosting the site's contents. Is there any way we can find out which is the company hosting the content? A traceroute to the domain leads to tarheelhosting.com but they are probably not hosting it directly but through a reseller.

    Any help appreciated.

    - G. Amik
    Last edited by Gamik; 03-27-2008 at 05:24 AM.

  2. #2
    If you are serious then you have or are getting a lawyer. If you have or are getting a lawyer, let him do the work you are paying him/her for.

    No lawyer = not serious
    Technical Advisor for new A&E Series The Killing Season
    There are no random acts of violence
    Starts November 5th!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by AHFB HTML View Post
    If you are serious then you have or are getting a lawyer. If you have or are getting a lawyer, let him do the work you are paying him/her for.

    No lawyer = not serious
    It will be a lawyer who will be handling the matter. The more info we can supply him (based on the collective wisdom here), the better. Hence my post.

    - G. Amik

  4. #4
    Your lawyer will have to get a subpoena.
    Technical Advisor for new A&E Series The Killing Season
    There are no random acts of violence
    Starts November 5th!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    3,795
    Quote Originally Posted by AHFB HTML View Post
    If you have or are getting a lawyer, let him do the work you are paying him/her for.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamik View Post
    The more info we can supply him (based on the collective wisdom here), the better.
    Your lawyer is PAID to do HIS job, and therefore should have had any relevant and necessary knowledge or wisdom.
    Co-Founder @HostHideout. Profoundly influenced by #Bauhaus, @Nameslave unrepentantly embraces #Minimalism with a bias for functionality, color theory and pixel precision: a #multimedia messenger in the McLuhan sense. His totally irrelevant M.Ed. dissertation examines Organizational Culture and Change Management. He also likes Patrik Ervell, Wong Kar-wai and IKEA.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamik View Post
    An organization I am associated with has a problem. Someone has put libellous content on the internet regarding this organization. The domain name ownership of the offending site is protected by privacyprotect.org.

    The organization is considering serving legal notice to the domain name registrar. In addition, it would like to be able to serve legal notice to the company hosting the site's contents. Is there any way we can find out which is the company hosting the content? A traceroute to the domain leads to tarheelhosting.com but they are probably not hosting it directly but through a reseller.

    Any help appreciated.

    - G. Amik
    You can contact tarheelhosting.com for this issue. They might not a reseller or if they are than they may tell you the actual hosting company.
    DomainsVilla.com
    Domain registration | Web hosting
    Unlimited Web Hosting with Unlimited everything

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Cheltenham
    Posts
    2,617
    before you contact a lwyer, I would suggest you do a bit of research so you can contract in the right lawyer.

    For example, we (as a host) were served with a US subpoena a while ago. However we are based in the UK as was the client. A US subpoena for starters is just a piece of paper in the UK (no jurisdiction), putting aside the fact that the liable law is different over here.

    I guess my point here is that lawyers are expensive and you need to ensure that you can achieve what your looking to do, before you contract them in.
    l 201TB.com • 201TB bandwidth as standard in three USA DC’s. KVMoIP, auto reboot & OS install all included - Now available in the Netherlands!
    l udedi.com • UK, USA & NL unmetered 100mb & 1GB 100TB premium bandwidth servers
    l Assiva Ltd • UK Shared & Reseller LiteSpeed • 10 years of hosting • R1Soft

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,866
    Your lawyer should approach the privacy organization to reveal the true owner of the domain.
    Signature Under Construction.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Cheltenham
    Posts
    2,617
    Why would you need a lawyer to do that? there's a handy form on the privacyprotect.org website to request access.

    Just a thought, but running to a lawyer is not always necessary.
    l 201TB.com • 201TB bandwidth as standard in three USA DC’s. KVMoIP, auto reboot & OS install all included - Now available in the Netherlands!
    l udedi.com • UK, USA & NL unmetered 100mb & 1GB 100TB premium bandwidth servers
    l Assiva Ltd • UK Shared & Reseller LiteSpeed • 10 years of hosting • R1Soft

  10. #10
    The form sends an email to the registrant contact... If its privacyprotect.org, thats directi/resellerclub, email their abuse address.

    Chris

    ps. dont snailmail, the address doesnt exist and/or wont recieve mail
    NetEarth One
    ICANN Accredited Registrar, http://reseller.netearthone.com
    SSLReseller - WHMCS SSL module now released into BETA www.sslreseller.com
    Full UK support, 7 days a week 365 days a year!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,277
    Quote Originally Posted by netearth View Post
    The form sends an email to the registrant contact... If its privacyprotect.org, thats directi/resellerclub, email their abuse address.

    Chris

    ps. dont snailmail, the address doesnt exist and/or wont recieve mail
    If this physical address returns mail contact ICANN as this is a violation of service. We've fought with alot of these privacy protect places that put up no address or fake information and we're always told to send a test letter. Most of the time I don't care that much about the domain, but if your having a legal issue, i'd give it a shot, send the address a letter, if it is returned file a bad whois report with ICANN.

    I would also have to agree with the other posters here, hiring a lawyer that is experienced in this field is the way to go. You'll be over your head in legal fees to get a good one, so since that's probably out of the question, the thing i'd do is go after how legitimate the domain information really is.

    If ICANN won't assist you theres a few places you can go beyond ICANN since ICANN openly claims it does alot to prevent this type of activity

    PM me if you have any questions about what I said.
    James Paul Woods
    Operations Manager
    HostKitty Internet Services

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,277
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamik View Post
    An organization I am associated with has a problem. Someone has put libellous content on the internet regarding this organization. The domain name ownership of the offending site is protected by privacyprotect.org.

    The organization is considering serving legal notice to the domain name registrar. In addition, it would like to be able to serve legal notice to the company hosting the site's contents. Is there any way we can find out which is the company hosting the content? A traceroute to the domain leads to tarheelhosting.com but they are probably not hosting it directly but through a reseller.

    Any help appreciated.

    - G. Amik
    I also wanted to note that the internet as a whole is unmoderated. Unless this website is hosted @ a datacenter where this type of activity is frowned upon, they will continue to be able to post the information. Furthermore if aspects of what they post are true, you could end up in a legal battle, defending yourself rather then going after them. As long as what's being posted is proven to be accurate, I don't know of any court that's going to see things your way.
    James Paul Woods
    Operations Manager
    HostKitty Internet Services

  13. #13
    Our interpretation of this is, as long as we carry the correct address information for the domain registrant, it doesnt really matter. Hence if we recieved an abuse request, and it had a court order attached, we would release domain registrant information.

    Chris
    NetEarth One
    ICANN Accredited Registrar, http://reseller.netearthone.com
    SSLReseller - WHMCS SSL module now released into BETA www.sslreseller.com
    Full UK support, 7 days a week 365 days a year!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,686
    You need to get a lawyer, not come to the armchair laywerism that is WHT. The first thing any lawyer worth his (or her) salt will tell you is NOT to discuss things publicly.

    Get a lawyer, don't discuss it with anyone but them. Don't try to figure it out yourself, don't try to 'get information' for them. Let THEM do THEIR job.
    WHMCS Guru - WHMCS addons, management, support and more.
    WHMCS Notifications Extended - Add slack, hipchat, SMS, pushover to WHMCS !!
    Always looking for Linux, WHMCS, Support Desk work. PM for details

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    67
    Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

    The responses from both sides of the client/domain name registrar divide did help.

    The situation is now this: Our lawyer sent an e-mail to [email protected]. Within a few hours, they suspended the domain. We do not have any response from them though, at least not yet, neither have they revealed the domain owner's true identity.

    The site also linked to a very libellous video clip hosted on two different video-clip hosting sites. A similar letter to these two hosting sites was also sent by the lawyer and the clip was also removed from both sites. Neither site has however revealed the identity of the original poster of the video, or responded to the lawyer yet.

    I must stress though that the content on the site and in the video was very clearly libellous (defamatory?). Anyone who would have come across the content would have immediately labeled it as such -- even without knowing anything about the organization concerned. Perhaps this helped.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech View Post
    You need to get a lawyer, not come to the armchair laywerism that is WHT. The first thing any lawyer worth his (or her) salt will tell you is NOT to discuss things publicly.
    I agree and that is why I have not included any specific identifying information (apart from naming privacyprotect.org as the entity behind which the domain name registrant is hiding).

    However, I will consult the lawyer and see whether I can post here the two or three sentences from his e-mail which dealt with relevant ICANN provisions. They were generic enough to not require confidentiality and may help someone in the future in a similar situation.

    G. Amik

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,277
    I feel situations like this are best to be left out in the open and discussed such as on this forum. Alot of the people that utilize this forum are people that also have influence over internet operations. They are the system admins, possibly the sysadmin for this website is an wht user. As i've been told by the mods here privately, it's not good to post just to slander people, as was done previously on this post. www.cybertriallawyer.com will tell you alot of the same things that have already been pointed out here. It's best to pick an attorney that practices in this area, an attorney that will be able to take any heat that rises on the internet regarding the issue, and one that understands the various policies that icann and internet providers have.

    While the internet might be lawless, areas of slander and libel are handled through the courts quite often, and you don't need an attorney most of the time to achieve a resolution. It might be better for this situation to of just contacted the hosting company to see where their stance is regarding a site like this.

    I remember a quote from Parco PI. (on television)

    If people call you a whore on the street, and they can prove that your a whore, they legally can call you a whore without any legal problems
    James Paul Woods
    Operations Manager
    HostKitty Internet Services

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,686
    I feel situations like this are best to be left out in the open and discussed such as on this forum.
    Which is why you're not a lawyer. Any lawyer worth their money would tell you to stay AWAY from discussions regarding lawsuits going on, cases going on, etc, as it CAN and WILL be used against you. Now, I'm no lawyer (thank god), I work for a living, but common sense says if you've got something going on like this, you stay away from any and all discussion, to cover your own tail end as it were.

    I remember a quote from Parco PI. (on television)
    Stick to TV law, television is not the real world, period.

    Leave the details, and discussions to the people paid to handle it. That's what you pay them for.

    Good luck
    WHMCS Guru - WHMCS addons, management, support and more.
    WHMCS Notifications Extended - Add slack, hipchat, SMS, pushover to WHMCS !!
    Always looking for Linux, WHMCS, Support Desk work. PM for details

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    5,866
    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    Now, I'm no lawyer (thank god), I work for a living,
    C'mon. You're not suggesting that lawyers don't earn their fees? Are you?
    Signature Under Construction.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •