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  1. #1
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    * Point of Harrasment at theserverdoctor.com

    Thats right, jeff has started to make a fool out of himself, i opened a ticket to their billing department on Posted: 03/22/2008 02:52

    Now, jeff said this after i asked for cancellation :
    Hi,

    You need to login and submit a cancellation request with no less then a 5 day notice from the end date of your billing date.

    Either he is blind or i am , as he is not seeing that i opened a ticket using his support ticket portal to the billing department, now he replies back

    "As a follow up to our last reply, if you do not cancel by tommorow Tuesday 3/25/08 at 5:00 p.m EST, you will be considered responsible for paymen to be made by 04/01/2008, which is your billing date.

    Sincerely,
    Jeffrey Hathaway
    TheServerDoctor"

    Now i find this as harrasment and noobish behaviour, as they failed to provide where to submit such request, as i opened a ticket to billing asking for cancellation, either i am a noob or jeff is trying to harras me and leech some money off me.

    PS: this was the original ticket i submitted :
    hi,
    as you know tired of poor support i have moved on , so please stop sending me invoices.

    thanks
    Bad and unethical behaviour on behalf of jeff.

    And my final reply to them :

    "Yawn, i asked you to cancel , cancel at your will this it's over, dont make a fool out of yourself now. If you only provided better services things would have not come to this point. Responsible my *** ok ?"


    I have no idea at this point where jeff wanted me to login , as i am logged in and submitting ticket to their billing department

    GOD avoid theserverdoctor.com at all cost, they have nothing better to do than fool around with clients !!

    Bunny never posts such threads as it hurts someones business one way or other, but trying to annoy bunny is not the way to go.

    Yeah opened tickets like in all 3 departments, hopefully jeff is all happy now !!

    Good luck jeff to ur future ventures !!

    Cheers
    Last edited by Energizer Bunny; 03-25-2008 at 12:54 AM.

  2. #2
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    I don't see how this is harassment.
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  3. #3
    I can understand your point but its not harassment,I think you got the wrong word.If you think he is being "noobish" don't do the same and send petulant replies.
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  4. #4
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    Hi,

    This person is just all upset because i would not enforce a crazy ticket as a cancellation request. As WHMCS as a nice perfect request center, where it logs it, and it can act on it and cancel the account by auto. when is stated in our TOS that this has to be used.

    At the same time, i wanted to go back and responded to his email, and made sure, since he was asking to cancel in the ticket and asked here on WHT the same thing pretty much, that he understood that he needed to cancel through the proper channels in according to the TOS, so that we did not have to get into any arguement about his resonsibilities.
    Last edited by EvilMan; 03-25-2008 at 08:44 AM. Reason: Left out explation for the reply to ticket.

  5. #5
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    Dude evil how the hell i am suppose to know how whmc or any other system works if i never used them ? Will i get a dream saying oo whmcs has this cancellation system or something? Seriously you failed to provide good service and decent replies as to how to cancel properly.

    But we are done, hoping i see not a single invoice from you, paid for a month but used like 10 - 15 days of service at most with 12-13 hrs of average response times.

    So jeff please improve your services and how to respond properly, instead of pushing your clients into corner at which point they have nothing to loose by using abusive behavior to get out of that corner. And your name reflects your nature quite nicely here on wht, Evil Man .

    I find it is harassment as jeff failed to provide exact instructions how to cancel properly, and how hard is it for them to cancel services, when a ticket is submitted asking for the same ? And than tried to force me to cancel magically somehow without knowing where/how, took me 2 hrs to figure out where and how the hell you cancel in whmcs, now thats my waste of time to be frank !! Evil man stop being evil in real world !!

  6. #6
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    Here you go from your TOS

    Quote Originally Posted by evilmans tos

    Termination
    This Agreement may be terminated: (i) by you or TheServerDoctor during any Renewal Term, without cause, by giving the other party no less than five (5) days prior written notice, or a greater number of days prior notice if specified in a Service Order accepted by TheServerDoctor; (ii) by TheServerDoctor in the event of nonpayment by you as provided in the section below or (iii) by TheServerDoctor, at any time, without notice, if, in TheServerDoctor sole judgment, you are in violation of any terms or conditions of the AUP. If you terminate this Agreement, or if TheServerDoctor terminates this Agreement for your breach, before the end of the Initial Term or the Renewal Term, whichever is then applicable, you will be required to pay immediately and without setoff or delay all charges, fees and costs accrued before the termination date, all monthly recurring fees for each month remaining in the Term and any other amounts including, but not limited to, bandwidth overage charges that you owe to TheServerDoctor under this Agreement.
    So where does it say how to cancel actually ? I see no detailed steps and sorry my dreams do not cover figuring out all billing systems in the world, they are limited to seeing cute she bunnies only !!

  7. #7
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    Well, kinda looks like both the client and the host are at fault here.

    The TOS clearly states the client has to submit some kind of "cancellation form" to cancel the service, it does not say to submit a ticket or email or call.

    But the host does not make it clear where *EXACTLY* the cancellation form is, except for the fact that it says in the billing system. Its like asking "Where is Detroit?" and getting a response "Earth" (yea exaggeration).

    But I can see that neither the client nor the host acted in a professional manner to resolve this issue. For example, instead of Jeff saying "You need to login and submit a cancellation request with no less then a 5 day notice from the end date of your billing date." he could have actually pointed the client where exactly he or she could find the cancellation form.
    Last edited by HNLV; 03-25-2008 at 11:37 AM. Reason: neither nor....yea
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha View Post

    But I can see that neither the client nor the host acted in a professional manner to resolve this issue. For example, instead of Jeff saying "You need to login and submit a cancellation request with no less then a 5 day notice from the end date of your billing date." he could have actually pointed the client where exactly he or she could find the cancellation form.
    Thank you , you got the punch line of the thread !! Now back to dreaming about hot she bunnies !!

  9. #9
    so not giving enough info is what you call harrasment? Personally I call this thread as harrassment. Now if he were to keep emailing you and offering you a tissue after you refused, that may be cause.
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  10. #10
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    "I have no idea at this point where jeff wanted me to login , as i am logged in and submitting ticket to their billing department"

    Perhaps you could have just stated that calmly and clearly after their first reply.

    I'll agree given the information provided currently, they could have made it easier to identify exactly how you're supposed to cancel. But, your reasoning is still somewhat retarded. It's no different than saying you're not responsible to pay because you weren't clearly told how to use their billing system.

    IMHO, You sure get your panties in a wad easily.

  11. #11
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    Jeff is right you are wrong Bunny. You are being unreasonable. Could he have pointed it out to you more clearly? Yes of course. However you are not acting very professionally in my opinion.

    I have used Jeff for a a few years for admin work prior to him even starting theserverdoctor he did admin work for me. He isn't perfect (no one is) but you should calm down and just cancel the thing.

    P.S. Jeff just cancel his service even though he didn't follow the procedure you wanted him to. Nothing to be gained by keeping him on there.
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  12. #12
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    This is pretty stupid. If a client submitted several tickets requesting to cancel and now your telling him to go through a hoops to cancel and your not going to honor his written cancellation via ticket that sounds quite ignorant. Bunny, if he charges you, you can just chargeback your CC and show proof you submitted a written cancellation to the "company".

    I mean serious, Just be lucky the client is even giving you notice in the FIRST place. Most clients will just do a chargeback and you will later find the reason code "Canceled service" and they would have never even sent you a cancel request. You will end up loosing either way since you will pay a $25 chargeback processing fee. I'm sorry but this should not be the behavior of a company. To me it sounds like he was hoping for the client not to go through the WHMCS cancel form and force him to pay another month.
    Last edited by MMH-Moe; 03-25-2008 at 10:50 PM.

  13. #13
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    He agreed to follow the proper procedure when he signed up and declared his acceptance of the Terms of Service.

    Going back later and saying he didn't understand what he accepted is his own damn fault.

    It's retarded advice like yours (chargeback fraud) which is what causes providers to have to put these sort of clauses in their Terms of Service.

    Customers shouldn't lie and say they canceled service when they "forgot" or say that they emailed a message to cancel service when they know they didn't. (I'm not saying that's what happened here.) But, because they do, that's why providers include these clauses and rules that you must cancel in a certain way. "took me 2 hrs to figure out where and how the hell you cancel in whmcs." I'm sorry... but you just can't fix stupid.

  14. #14
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    Actually your wrong Lightwave.

    Visa, MC merchant handbook states so long as a cardholder submits a cancellation in WRITING or PHONE to the merchant that is considered as a form of cancellation. It's obvious the merchant received the cancellation request, it is his ignorance he won't accept it either because,

    1. he hates the fact he is loosing a client and wants to inconvenience them as much as he can.
    2. Hope after replying to the client cancellation request email telling them that their cancellation won't be accepted unless he goes through a certain method, and cross his fingers hoping the client forgets and doesn't goto the cancel form and get another month out of them.
    3. just is being plain ignorant.

    BTW, last time I checked, WHMCS allows you to cancel the account within the admin section.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MMH-Moe View Post
    Actually your wrong Lightwave.

    Visa, MC merchant handbook states so long as a cardholder submits a cancellation in WRITING or PHONE to the merchant that is considered as a form of cancellation. It's obvious the merchant received the cancellation request, it is his ignorance he won't accept it either because,

    1. he hates the fact he is loosing a client and wants to inconvenience them as much as he can.
    2. Hope after replying to the client cancellation request email telling them that their cancellation won't be accepted unless he goes through a certain method, and cross his fingers hoping the client forgets and doesn't goto the cancel form and get another month out of them.
    3. just is being plain ignorant.

    BTW, last time I checked, WHMCS allows you to cancel the account within the admin section.
    Sorry,

    I must of missed the bit where Bunny rang him and told him, no he didn't did he.

    He must of written, no wait he didn't do that either.

    FYI In Writing is exactly that not by email.

    Bunny is in the wrong but I think thats been covered now and I think the thread should be closed to stop posts like this.
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  16. #16
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    @Bunny, your initial ticket was very unprofessional. No matter how unsatisfied you were with his services, that was very childish way to express your dissatisfaction. Also following messages "yawn!" etc.

    However! From customer/provider point of view, Jeff should be the patient one. He should understand customer's frustration, and provided the exact info (URL etc.) required for cancellation, which absolutely is not clear in his TOS.

    Just my few cents..
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  17. #17
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    Here's my two cents - Bunny, this was not the way to go about it and the only person who looks unprofessional is you.

    I was this close to closing the thread tab when I read the word "noob" in a discussion about billing practices. What is this, the Counter Strike forum?

    Seriously though, it seems to me that you at least implied to a reasonable degree that you wanted to cancel the service. That is the feeling I got from your message.

    HOWEVER, why would it be so hard to put in a proper cancellation request. Open a ticket with billing and say, "I wish to cancel my account." That way, he has no way of saying that you didn't actually cancel/you were too vague/et al.

    On the flip side, Jeff, get real. You knew exactly what this meant and thought that since he was being a jerk that you could get an extra months payment out of this. Just cancel his account and get on with your life.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH-Moe View Post
    Actually your wrong Lightwave.

    Visa, MC merchant handbook states so long as a cardholder submits a cancellation in WRITING or PHONE to the merchant that is considered as a form of cancellation.
    I've flipped through 141 pages of Visa's public merchant's handbook and find no such statement.

    In any case... it doesn't matter what the provider has agreed to do with Visa/MC. That's their agreement with Visa/MC. If they are breaking that agreement then Visa/MC can take away their right to use Visa/MC.

    That doesn't give the customer the right to decide they aren't going to follow terms they agreed to. They agreed to cancel their services in a certain manner with the provider. Even if Visa/MC does declare the provider in violation of their terms... It doesn't mean the customer is no longer liable for the bill.

    Other then that... I do agree that it would have been easier for Jeff to just cancel the customer... but don't feel he had any obligation to do so.

  19. #19
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    Visa and Mastercard also gives the merchant the right to persue legal action by means of collections or court to get any money taken by CB, when they are under a contract (which is the TOS). So you cannot deny that part, as i too have recieved a copy of the new policies on how visa and mc understandads them.

    Either way, he submitted one through the proper way in accordance to what the TOS he agreed to said (mind you it said form not ticket or email).

    EDIT: And JFYI for eveyrone, i did not want a extra months payment from him. I waned him to own up and take responsibility and use the proper channels like everyone else. At the same time, the unprofessional mannager of how he changed his contact details to basicly swear at me, was also unprofessional so i wanted to make him be responisble. No wheres did i ever say i wanted another months of his money.

    MODS, please close this thread as its useless at this pt, as productivity is already done and the issue was solved when he submited this ticket.
    Last edited by EvilMan; 03-26-2008 at 09:37 AM.

  20. #20
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    And also change the thread title may be because "harrasement" is a bit harsh. Its more of a disagreement over cancellation and procedures than anything else.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha View Post
    And also change the thread title may be because "harrasement" is a bit harsh. Its more of a disagreement over cancellation and procedures than anything else.
    No, it's more of a rant by a user who is too lazy to cancel using the agreed-upon procedure.
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  22. #22
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    Didn't the OP state that they opened a ticket with the Billing Department via the support portal in their first post? Or am I just not understanding something?

    Regarding the way the OP has opened the ticket and their actions thereafter is a completely different story.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayksolutions View Post
    Didn't the OP state that they opened a ticket with the Billing Department via the support portal in their first post? Or am I just not understanding something?

    Regarding the way the OP has opened the ticket and their actions thereafter is a completely different story.
    Yes, and Jeff advised the OP of the PROPER procedure to close the account. The OP could not be bothered to take a few minutes to simply login to his billing area (which he pretends to be oblivious of) and click a few links. Instead, he got ignorant with Jeff. Even if he didn't know, he should have just asked about how to cancel the account properly. He did not.

    The other fact nobody has picked up on is that support systems often have different user databases from billing systems, thereby you cannot simply implicitly trust the person making the cancellation request is indeed the owner.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilMan View Post
    Visa and Mastercard also gives the merchant the right to persue legal action by means of collections or court to get any money taken by CB, when they are under a contract (which is the TOS). So you cannot deny that part, as i too have recieved a copy of the new policies on how visa and mc understandads them.

    Either way, he submitted one through the proper way in accordance to what the TOS he agreed to said (mind you it said form not ticket or email).

    EDIT: And JFYI for eveyrone, i did not want a extra months payment from him. I waned him to own up and take responsibility and use the proper channels like everyone else. At the same time, the unprofessional mannager of how he changed his contact details to basicly swear at me, was also unprofessional so i wanted to make him be responisble. No wheres did i ever say i wanted another months of his money.

    MODS, please close this thread as its useless at this pt, as productivity is already done and the issue was solved when he submited this ticket.
    Why would mods close this thread? Can you show me anywhere on site where you have the so called proper procedures telling you where to go and how to actually cancel ? (hopefully outcome of this thread will be that you get educated and learn how to reply to tickets when you tell them to cancel properly without mentioning the procedures and steps of how "proper cancel" is to be done !!)

    Evil you have time to edit, my profile back, reply 2 times asking to use proper means but do not have time to actually cancel billing/account for the client when requested way beforehand ? you are lucky i did not ask for refund, cause the services you provided were not worth paying for.Thats just lame and poor customer support!!

    FYI evil even if you wanted to leech extra money out of me, you would have to be either bill gates or president of united states, cause otherwise you are nobody and bunny does not give in to extortion easy !!

    In the end good luck to those choose theserverdoctor.com for server management services !! Thats one service i will recommend users not to use from now onwards.
    Last edited by Energizer Bunny; 03-26-2008 at 02:40 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Energizer Bunny View Post
    Why would mods close this thread? Can you show me anywhere on site where you have the so called proper procedures telling you where to go and how to actually cancel ? (hopefully outcome of this thread will be that you get educated and learn how to reply to tickets when you tell them to cancel properly without mentioning the procedures and steps of how "proper cancel" is to be done !!)

    Evil you have time to edit, my profile back, reply 2 times asking to use proper means but do not have time to actually cancel billing/account for the client when requested way beforehand ? you are lucky i did not ask for refund, cause the services you provided were not worth paying for.Thats just lame and poor customer support!!

    FYI evil even if you wanted to leech extra money out of me, you would have to be either bill gates or president of united states, cause otherwise you are nobody and bunny does not give in to extortion easy !!

    In the end good luck to those choose theserverdoctor.com for server management services !! Thats one service i will recommend users not to use from now onwards.
    If you did not know how to cancel properly, you should have simply asked on the ticket after he replied to you there. Instead, you acted like an a**hole. If you had been given the exact information on how to cancel, and still could not, in the situation (given that I provide hosting as well), I would have cancelled your account in my admin side of the billing system. Overall, I think both your and Jeff's behaviour was rude and ignorant.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Energizer Bunny View Post
    Why would mods close this thread? Can you show me anywhere on site where you have the so called proper procedures telling you where to go and how to actually cancel ? (hopefully outcome of this thread will be that you get educated and learn how to reply to tickets when you tell them to cancel properly without mentioning the procedures and steps of how "proper cancel" is to be done !!)

    Evil you have time to edit, my profile back, reply 2 times asking to use proper means but do not have time to actually cancel billing/account for the client when requested way beforehand ? you are lucky i did not ask for refund, cause the services you provided were not worth paying for.Thats just lame and poor customer support!!

    FYI evil even if you wanted to leech extra money out of me, you would have to be either bill gates or president of united states, cause otherwise you are nobody and bunny does not give in to extortion easy !!

    In the end good luck to those choose theserverdoctor.com for server management services !! Thats one service i will recommend users not to use from now onwards.
    I think they both need to grow up.

    "bunny" - I hope you are smarter than you portray yourself on these forums. The way you acted was immature and it was you who neglected to ask for clarification on the correct procedures.

    "evilman" - You knew what he wanted, you should have just taken that as the cancellation request, or been more thorough in explaining what he had to do.


    This is what happens when you have 10 year old "CEO's" running "businesses"

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Salter View Post


    This is what happens when you have 10 year old "CEO's" running "businesses"
    Baah cody just because ur 10 does not mean everyone is also 10

  28. #28
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    This thread has run its course Bunny. You have what you need right?
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by larwilliams View Post
    Yes, and Jeff advised the OP of the PROPER procedure to close the account. The OP could not be bothered to take a few minutes to simply login to his billing area (which he pretends to be oblivious of) and click a few links. Instead, he got ignorant with Jeff. Even if he didn't know, he should have just asked about how to cancel the account properly. He did not.

    The other fact nobody has picked up on is that support systems often have different user databases from billing systems, thereby you cannot simply implicitly trust the person making the cancellation request is indeed the owner.
    Isn't WHMCS an all in one system, meaning that billing and support are one and the same?

    I'm not trying to defend Bunny here or attack Jeff. I'm just still confused as to how the client was supposed to submit a cancellation request if not by a billing ticket?
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayksolutions View Post
    Isn't WHMCS an all in one system, meaning that billing and support are one and the same?

    I'm not trying to defend Bunny here or attack Jeff. I'm just still confused as to how the client was supposed to submit a cancellation request if not by a billing ticket?
    Simple by wasting 2 hrs trying to figure out where is cancellation thing in WHMCS using google and stuff i guess , in the end it seems google is your only friend today !! If someone else needs help on how to cancel in whmc (a new pos for bunny) feel free to shoot me a pm, will tell you where possibly you can find cancellation thingy.

    @Coolraul, sure why not crazy discussions and mud throwing can continue for ever.

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  31. #31
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    Well, you could have asked Jeff how to do it properly if you were not sure as well, instead of crying about it. Honestly, there are steps that need to be followed to properly cancel an account. By just doing what you "think" is the correct way of submitting a cancellation, is not necessarily the way it should be done. This was the case here.

    Let me ask you, if it was a "big" company, like TP or SL and you canceled using a wrong form, would you also complain about them not honoring your cancellation? I think you would take a bit more time to actually do it correctly.
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  32. #32
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by ayksolutions View Post
    Well, you could have asked Jeff how to do it properly if you were not sure as well, instead of crying about it. Honestly, there are steps that need to be followed to properly cancel an account. By just doing what you "think" is the correct way of submitting a cancellation, is not necessarily the way it should be done. This was the case here.

    Let me ask you, if it was a "big" company, like TP or SL and you canceled using a wrong form, would you also complain about them not honoring your cancellation? I think you would take a bit more time to actually do it correctly.

    Any company with brains will actually tell you procedure as to where to submit ticket or what the procedures are when making a reply in a proper fashion , companies without brain and thinking their clients know everything magically, when they say "use proper method" is a sad situation for them.
    Hell i even made a graphical tutorial for my clients as to how to make payments via their client billing/support panel, yes it takes efforts and time to make your clients happy, but well worth the effort and time put in making such step by step procedures cause not everyone can magically dream about what proper channel means and nor does anyone canceling or paying has the time at disposal to submit yet another ticket asking what proper channels.

    NOTE:Remember running any business or service is not just money and great uptime/services, but it's being smart about how to reply to issues/tickets, such that minimal effort is needed by client to understand what was actually said in the reply !!. Cause if your reply leads to another obvious question, than wow does someone needs some experience/training/common sense.
    Last edited by Energizer Bunny; 03-26-2008 at 07:05 PM.

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    Location
    San Jose, CA.
    Posts
    1,622
    Granted, it could be a little different depending on how they changed the templates... but in general it'd be something like:

    Login to WHMCS, Go to "My Products & Services" -> Click "View Details" button for whatever product/service you have... -> Click "Request Cancellation" button.

    ---

    I agree that it should have been made more clear from the beginning exactly how to cancel... but it also shouldn't require the average person 2 hours to find the link. Even if you clicked every thing possible on the WHMCS Client Area.. it shouldn't have taken you more then 5 minutes to find it when it became clear that submitting a ticket isn't what he meant by how to cancel the service.

    I also think the thread has ran it's course...
    You think it should have been more clearly explained how you were supposed to cancel. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I think everyone simply thinks your attitude didn't help the situation. Or did you want to keep repeating this a few more times?

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,687
    hi,
    as you know tired of poor support i have moved on , so please stop sending me invoices.

    thanks
    Wow,
    This is not a 'cancellation' request. Nowhere in there do I see the words 'cancel', 'terminate service', or anything else. It shows attitude from a customer, nothing else. Judging by your previous threads and posts, not something that surprises me from you.

    Isn't WHMCS an all in one system, meaning that billing and support are one and the same?
    Yes

    I'm just still confused as to how the client was supposed to submit a cancellation request if not by a billing ticket?
    WHMCS has a 'cancellation' link inside of the system. Where it's at, don't know, and I think it's most likely related to the package and invoice area itself. This means that it's not easy to find,b ut it shouldn't be that complicated to find. Look under your packages, it should be right there.

    People really need to stop acting like children. If you don't cancel something, then you'd best expect invoices. Nothing in that request said 'cancel this service', and the person was being very vague, and quite immature about it. Next time, you need to out and out say you're cancelling, and follow instructions given to do so. If instructions AREN'T given, then ask how to cancel.

    Plain, simple, and to the point. Act like a mature, responsible adult, and I think it's safe to say you'll be treated like one. Act like an insolent, tirading child constantly, and guess what you'll be treated like. An insolent, tirading child.

    In some cases, yes, you need to show a bit of anger, just to get stuff done, but this isn't one of those times. You're trying to cancel service. Have some respect for yourself and the company you're using
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