View Poll Results: How do you see it?

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  • Another jolt to US jobs/economy

    7 29.17%
  • A smart move by the company

    6 25.00%
  • Nothing new about it, I don't care.

    11 45.83%
Results 1 to 34 of 34
  1. #1
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    VMware to Invest $100 Million in India

    http://www.webhosting.info/news/1/0324084746

    VMware opens new Bangalore R&D facility, plans to double its development team in India to more than 1,000 people in the next two years.

    VMware, a virtualization solutions provider, today announced a multi-year initiative aimed at expanding its India-based research and development operations. The company avers that it already has a strong presence across India with offices in Bangalore, Pune, Chennai, Delhi, and Mumbai.

    The company states that the initiative was announced today by its president and CEO Diane Greene at a news conference in Bangalore. Further it added that the initiative includes: Investing U.S. $100 million in India by 2010, A new 82,000 square foot development center in Bangalore and to double their India-based engineering organization to more than 1,000 people in the next two years.

    "Great products are built by great people. India has both an excellent technical education infrastructure and outstanding people. We highly value our Indian citizen employees," said Greene. "India is also one of our fastest growing markets and where we have increasingly important system integrator partners. For these reasons, we are now substantively increasing our investment in India."
    How do you see it, another jolt to US jobs/economy, a smart move by the company or nothing new?
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  2. #2
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    It's like peeing in a pond compared to the USA economy. No biggie.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by inogenius View Post
    It's like peeing in a pond compared to the USA economy. No biggie.
    every single drop makes an ocean. its not so far,

  4. #4
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    Well the way that I see is every movement or shift of operations to another country and screwing over the American people is no less than treason.
    Kerry Jones

  5. #5
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    It's a nice thing.

  6. #6
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    They're smart in exploiting cheap Indian labor costs. 1000 Indian employees probably cost them the same as 50 American employees would, so it comes down to the numbers and where they can get the most bang for their buck, and that is in India. Smart move imo.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    They're smart in exploiting cheap Indian labor costs. 1000 Indian employees probably cost them the same as 50 American employees would, so it comes down to the numbers and where they can get the most bang for their buck, and that is in India. Smart move imo.
    Agreed, wise business move.

  8. #8
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    So when can we expect portions of the program to contain fuzzy english?
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  9. #9
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    People here using some fuzzy math and don't know Indian employment rates. their wages are WAY up and nearing to parity with US market now for many jobs. In addition they expect wage increases fo 20-40% per YEAR which means in just 2-3 years they will be surpassing US wages.
    There are some highly skilled people in India, very good programmers, but there are many that just have some book training and no real knowledge as well, much the same as the US but on a great scale due to the number of people there.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    They're smart in exploiting cheap Indian labor costs. 1000 Indian employees probably cost them the same as 50 American employees would, so it comes down to the numbers and where they can get the most bang for their buck, and that is in India. Smart move imo.
    I think you are exaggerating on purpose, but it's more like they can hire 1000 people for the same price they would pay 200-400 US based employees. Top tier techs fetch a few thousand dollars a month in India these days, and even lower entry level techs can command nearly a thousand dollars a month.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Suds View Post
    I think you are exaggerating on purpose, but it's more like they can hire 1000 people for the same price they would pay 200-400 US based employees. Top tier techs fetch a few thousand dollars a month in India these days, and even lower entry level techs can command nearly a thousand dollars a month.
    I'm not sure of the exact ratio, and I might be guilty of exaggering but they're hiring Indians because they cost a lot less than Americans. Probably a lot cheaper to build over there too. But still, 1000 Indian employees or 200 American employees. I'll take the 1000 Indians anyday. I've worked with Indians online, and they're pretty good in my books.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    I'm not sure of the exact ratio, and I might be guilty of exaggering but they're hiring Indians because they cost a lot less than Americans. Probably a lot cheaper to build over there too. But still, 1000 Indian employees or 200 American employees. I'll take the 1000 Indians anyday. I've worked with Indians online, and they're pretty good in my books.
    Might want to take a look at the salary increases and land costs there in India now

    Can build and employee people in rural US for same costs, really

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Stephen) View Post
    . . . Can build and employee people in rural US for same costs, really
    I don't think Vmware want their facility built in "rural US".
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Stephen) View Post
    Might want to take a look at the salary increases and land costs there in India now

    Can build and employee people in rural US for same costs, really
    Might be able to find people with the needed skills... but I think it would be hard.

    Like that boat company that tried to go into a rural town about 30 miles from me...

    The city put out requests for resumes to submit to the company and out of the 1000 needed, maybe 600 resumes came in... out of those maybe 200 or so people qualified for the high-tech jobs. Education was seriously lacking.

    It is going to be hard to train a new generation to work in tech vs. a mill or factory.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by (Stephen) View Post
    Might want to take a look at the salary increases and land costs there in India now

    Can build and employee people in rural US for same costs, really
    Maybe you can share it with us since you are aware of them

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu View Post
    Might be able to find people with the needed skills... but I think it would be hard.

    Like that boat company that tried to go into a rural town about 30 miles from me...

    The city put out requests for resumes to submit to the company and out of the 1000 needed, maybe 600 resumes came in... out of those maybe 200 or so people qualified for the high-tech jobs. Education was seriously lacking.

    It is going to be hard to train a new generation to work in tech vs. a mill or factory.
    Indians are skilled high for a low price, thats the main reason people are opting for us. More over here people work in BPO and tech support industry for nearly 12 hours a day and they get paid around 400 USD which is low.

    In terms of software or web development we outstand everyone in terms of price and quality. BPO and tech support needs some sort of improvement as language is bit problem, but that too would be sorted out in coming yrs.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biju View Post
    Indians are skilled high for a low price, thats the main reason people are opting for us. More over here people work in BPO and tech support industry for nearly 12 hours a day and they get paid around 400 USD which is low.

    In terms of software or web development we outstand everyone in terms of price and quality. BPO and tech support needs some sort of improvement as language is bit problem, but that too would be sorted out in coming yrs.
    You are exactly right on this, it is those that have mastered the language of English both knowing their native is more british, and understanding the US dialect that demand the most money in India.
    Those that have it down now and can communicate well can do VERY well, those that are only doing the BPO and low level tech support do not catch on as well unless they grow to realize then on their own and seek out to learn it themselves.

    However this is something I really have to say about the people from India that I have worked with over the years, they have an eagerness to grow and learn as a person and in knowledge more than anyone I have seen outside of a few cases here in the US. Education systems and learning is at a state called apathy in the US, but in India it is rich and thriving.

    THIS is the core reason many jobs are leaving the US and going to India, US Citizens have become complacent and apathetic toward their jobs, education, and generally in life, and it will be the great downfall unless we wake up!

    But I really have to say the eagerness to learn is something I enjoy a lot and it makes me to keep working 20 hours a day to teach my staff more and more because they are always ready

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Jones View Post
    Well the way that I see is every movement or shift of operations to another country and screwing over the American people is no less than treason.
    lots of american companies buying companies in turkey in bulk, their earnings go to united states in the end. nothing less than treason.

  19. #19
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    all you people forget that india provides a lot of incentives for i.t. companies there. they are way too accommodating in terms of taxes, incentives etc.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by inogenius View Post
    It's like peeing in a pond compared to the USA economy. No biggie.

    Agreed... Not a hugely big investment compared to some, only a big deal because it's in a developing country.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Stephen) View Post
    However this is something I really have to say about the people from India that I have worked with over the years, they have an eagerness to grow and learn as a person and in knowledge more than anyone I have seen outside of a few cases here in the US. Education systems and learning is at a state called apathy in the US, but in India it is rich and thriving.
    I am on the opinion that USA is still one of the prime source of creativity and entrepreneurship. I wouldn't be surprised to find innovative CSS hacks, JavaScript clever usage (just some few examples) been thought of by Americans. Asians (excl Japan) just are good at implementing these ideas. Highly skilled yes, but not creative.

    And there must be some reason for these creativeness. Perhaps high-school partying & pranks, early teenage sex and drugs play a part in them thinking out of the box. Some kids play with their garage spares to jam military radio signal, etc. Whereas Asian kids tend to book-worms.

    So in this age of globalization where the whole world in one single economy, the Americans are entrepreneurs, Asians are the manufacturers, the rest provided raw materials and human blue collar jobs.

  22. #22
    No offense but I'm getting tired of all these software developers moving to India

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellind2 View Post
    I am on the opinion that USA is still one of the prime source of creativity and entrepreneurship. I wouldn't be surprised to find innovative CSS hacks, JavaScript clever usage (just some few examples) been thought of by Americans. Asians (excl Japan) just are good at implementing these ideas. Highly skilled yes, but not creative.

    And there must be some reason for these creativeness. Perhaps high-school partying & pranks, early teenage sex and drugs play a part in them thinking out of the box. Some kids play with their garage spares to jam military radio signal, etc. Whereas Asian kids tend to book-worms.

    So in this age of globalization where the whole world in one single economy, the Americans are entrepreneurs, Asians are the manufacturers, the rest provided raw materials and human blue collar jobs.

    You do not know enough about Asians and their achievements who have succeeded in various fields.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by inogenius View Post
    It's like peeing in a pond compared to the USA economy. No biggie.
    unless you use outsourcing services and then you realize all these clowns are driving up the prices.:

  25. #25
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    Americans seek employment in India

    May be creativity is not there, its a pee in the pond, its bad English or what ever, but I just found some more info on this issue:

    Americans seek employment in India

    Tuesday, March 25, 2008 (New York)
    Robert Durbin was looking nervous when he went to the India Visa services centre in Manhattan this past week.

    With a professional degree in Information Technology from New York University last year, Durbin has been desperately looking for a job for the past six months; but unsuccessful so far, primarily because US companies these days have been cutting jobs rather than recruiting new people.

    After months of job search, the only place Durbin received a job offer was from a Bangalore-based IT major this month. ''I am here to apply for my work visa to India,'' Durbin told NDTV.com, standing outside the India Visa Services Centre in Manhattan, to which the Indian Embassy and Consulates have outsourced visa-processing system.

    Durbin, requesting his identity not be disclosed till he joins the job in Bangalore next month, said he was nervous as he did not know if he will get the work visa or not. ''I hope, I will,'' he said, as he went inside to submit his applications. It will take another couple of days before he knows if his application has been approved.

    Without referring to this particular case, P S Sasi Kumar, who handles the visa section at the Indian Consulate in New York told NDTV.com that normally most of the applications for work visas are being approved. Of late, the Consulate in New York has been experiencing a steady flow of such applications seeking work visa.

    Though, India might still not be a hot destination for foreigners like the US is for Indians for jobs, Kumar said applications for work visa has been gradually increasing. From what used to be a rare category of visas a couple of years ago, hardly a day passes when the Consulate in New York does not receive at least one such application in this regard.

    In the past two years, the New York Consulate has issued work visa to more than 900 people. In 2006 the New York Consulate issued 335 employment visas while in 2007, more than 430 employment visas were issued. If the trend of the first three months is of any indication, 2008 could well break all previous records. It is a couple of applications every day, Kumar said.

    While New York tops the list, the three other Indian consulates in the US - in San Francisco, Houston and Chicago - and the Indian Embassy in Washington have also seen quite a number of applications for work visa.

    Figures made available indicated the Indian Embassy in Washington issued about 300 work visas in past two years, while Houston Consulate down South issued nearly 100; indicating India is gradually emerging as employment destination for the Americans as job opportunities in the US has increasingly been shrinking in past two years.

    This is widely being attributed to the recent economic recession here which has resulted in job loss in thousands, wherein US multinationals have shifted their work oversees mainly to countries like India and China.

    While no official survey of applications for work visa has been done, Kumar said most of the requests for employment visas are either in the IT sector or aviation; reflecting the job opportunities in these two sectors. In aviation sector it is mainly professional pilots who have been applying for work visas.

    Other visa categories

    Statistics made available to NDTV.com by the Indian Embassy in Washington DC indicated a significant jump in the visas being issued. Tourist and business visas are the most popular visa categories. For instance, the San Francisco Consulate in 2007 issued as many as 108,301 compared to 61,725 in 2003.

    The Houston Consulate, down South, issued 42,465 tourist visas in 2007 against 32,849 in 2003. The Indian Embassy in Washington issued 32,471 tourist visas in 2007, while 25,369 visas were issued in the year 2003.

    The New York Consulate, being located in the financial capital of the world, issued more than 24,000 business visas in the year 2007, while the previous year it was a little over 20,000.

    Outsourcing of visa services

    Visa services were outsourced in the US last year, given the sudden increase in the volume of applications in this regard and the small staff at the Indian Embassy and Consulates deployed in this regard.

    Initial report indicates that outsourcing of visa services - an initiative of the Indian Ambassador to the US, Ronen Sen - has ended the frustrating long wait for the seekers of Indian visas in the US.
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  26. #26
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    Its better you start learning Hindi, Tamil, Kannada, Malayalam and many more.
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  27. #27
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    English is an official language in India, no worries the business people know english

    of course knowing some hindi to see what people are saying in the office stations could be interesting esp if they don't know you know it

  28. #28
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    I think is pretty simple, the western world has gotten fat and complacent and now we are seeing that we're not the center of the world.

    Our markets are a fair game. Basically we have become nothing more then the end product consumers with diminishing industries that slowly are moving away. Third world countries are taking advantage of this and making huge profits and making their world much better wealth wise.

    It will be interesting to see how third world governments change and treat their people as they gain more world power/influence.


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  29. #29
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    Some cases to point, in my previous two jobs experience.

    Qua(n)tum Corporation designed the tape backup autoloader with two magazines on either side of a turntable that loads and unload tapes into the drives. They then tendered their design to a bunch of Asian manufacturers; a Japanese company with the lowest cost won the bid. They redesigned the autoloader to be 'manufacturing competitive'. This Japanese company then outsourced this new design to a Singapore company who could deliver cheaper engineers, great infrastructure, and cheap assemblers from neighbouring Malaysia. These same autoloader are rebranded by Dell selling at a much higher premium.
    In this case, it is Americans = Designers and product owner; Japanese = QA, Manufacturing SPC control and cutting cost; Singapore = Manufacturing hub and skilled disciplined engineers; Malaysia = Cheap labourers.

    Next, IBM designed the XBOX 360 processor and the wafer fabrication process. They outsource (sell the license) their process and manufacturing to my present company in Singapore. They even provide the MES plant automation system. Other American and Japanese companies provide the multi-million dollar equipments, and analysis software. Singapore provide the manufacturing environment and skilled (but not creative) engineers. The operators that handle the equipments are from Malaysia and South Asia.

    This is the trend going on in this age of globalization.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellind2 View Post
    Some cases to point, in my previous two jobs experience.

    Qua(n)tum Corporation designed the tape backup autoloader with two magazines on either side of a turntable that loads and unload tapes into the drives. They then tendered their design to a bunch of Asian manufacturers; a Japanese company with the lowest cost won the bid. They redesigned the autoloader to be 'manufacturing competitive'. This Japanese company then outsourced this new design to a Singapore company who could deliver cheaper engineers, great infrastructure, and cheap assemblers from neighbouring Malaysia. These same autoloader are rebranded by Dell selling at a much higher premium.
    In this case, it is Americans = Designers and product owner; Japanese = QA, Manufacturing SPC control and cutting cost; Singapore = Manufacturing hub and skilled disciplined engineers; Malaysia = Cheap labourers.

    Next, IBM designed the XBOX 360 processor and the wafer fabrication process. They outsource (sell the license) their process and manufacturing to my present company in Singapore. They even provide the MES plant automation system. Other American and Japanese companies provide the multi-million dollar equipments, and analysis software. Singapore provide the manufacturing environment and skilled (but not creative) engineers. The operators that handle the equipments are from Malaysia and South Asia.

    This is the trend going on in this age of globalization.
    One Question:

    Then why is India considered as the top in outsourcing destination?

  31. #31
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    If India wants to be exploited for their cheap labor, then the West should take full advantage of this accessible resource, given the global nature of business. India's main resource would be their mass population and this is something the West can use to their advantage, whilst at the same time helping India lift themselves out of poverty and out of 3rd world status.
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  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    I don't think Vmware want their facility built in "rural US".
    Bring it to my rural town. I'll fix the damn thing with a hammer and some bailing wire. Mostly hammer.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Biju View Post
    One Question:

    Then why is India considered as the top in outsourcing destination?
    Because they are top in quantity (the labour market) aswell as the biggest in "English" speaking.

    Singapore is a very much smaller country, so you can not compare.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DecaHolding View Post
    Because they are top in quantity (the labour market) aswell as the biggest in "English" speaking.

    Singapore is a very much smaller country, so you can not compare.
    It's not just quantity, its quality too that you get in India. You can get cheaper English speaking people elsewhere too, but if there is no quality you will not go there. India may not be the best but still better than many others.
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