Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1

    Is iweb an overseller.

    I have been searching for a decent shared hosting provider for a few months and had nearly finalized on iweb based on their uptime ratings on netcraft and reasonable specifications(the micro/mini ... plans) Today When I visited their website I found them offering 600GB storage and hosting for <$2 did they turn oversellers? When? In case they are oversellers I am now back to stage one. Can anyone recommend a respectable host for a shared hosting plan.... My requirements are
    500MB Storage
    <1Gb monthly Transfer
    2K page views per day.
    Each page will use ssi + perl-cgi(XML:OM and DBI) +Mysql

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,686
    If they're offering 600GB of storage for less than $2 per month, then yes. They oversell.
    EZPZ Hosting - Dependable and Affordable Web Hosting
    LiteSpeed SSD Powered cPanel Shared & Reseller Hosting | Budget VPS, Managed VPS and Dedicated
    Reseller Hosting Specialists | WHMCS-Based End User Support | Unlimited SSLs | UK and USA
    99.9% Uptime Guarantee | 24/7 Support | 30 Day Money Back Guarantee

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,608
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_EZPZ View Post
    If they're offering 600GB of storage for less than $2 per month, then yes. They oversell.

    even if they sell for a $20 then too it does mean overselling.

  4. #4
    Seems like you need to find a "normal" web host, not an overselling company. Look in the shared hosting offers section, and do some research on the companies you are able to find

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    5,512
    Is anyone *not* an overseller?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,582
    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff View Post
    Is anyone *not* an overseller?
    No

    There just are people who say they aren't oversellers.
    Tony B. - Chief Executive Officer
    Hawk Host Inc. Proudly serving websites since 2004
    Quality Shared and VPS Hosting
    PHP 5.3.x & PHP 5.4.x & PHP 5.5.X & PHP 5.6.X & PHP 7.0.X Support!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    16,087
    There are companies that say they do not oversell, that actually don't oversell, and then there are companies that say they don't, but still do.

    Generally if the price seems reasonable for what you are getting, e.g. not 2tb for $1.50/month, and they claim to not be overselling they might not be.
    Michael Denney - MDDHosting LLC
    New shared plans for 2016! Check them out!
    Highly Available Shared, Premium, Reseller, and VPS
    http://www.mddhosting.com/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    There are companies that say they do not oversell, that actually don't oversell, and then there are companies that say they don't, but still do.

    Generally if the price seems reasonable for what you are getting, e.g. not 2tb for $1.50/month, and they claim to not be overselling they might not be.
    Don't forget the ones who say they are overselling and don't.... thats just darn right sneaky!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    16,087
    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Salter View Post
    Don't forget the ones who say they are overselling and don't.... thats just darn right sneaky!
    Lol, I hate it when that happens! *grins*
    Michael Denney - MDDHosting LLC
    New shared plans for 2016! Check them out!
    Highly Available Shared, Premium, Reseller, and VPS
    http://www.mddhosting.com/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Montréal
    Posts
    953
    A little dedicated server or a VPS is a good solution if you do not want a host that oversell. You can find a very low end server or a VPS for around $30 I guess. As for shared hosting, I think you should investigate about the experience of the users and the quality of the hosting services rather than concentrate on the host overselling or not.
    :: Martin Leclair
    :: Linkedin Profile

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    12
    Yeah it looks like they are overselling but most companies do these days.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Barcelona, Spain
    Posts
    3,397
    1.67 is the price for 10 years!!! That's absurd. Just marketing gimmicks to end up higher in the rankings of the web hosting review sites.
    hi there!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    12
    Who would be crazy enough to prepay for 10 years!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    16,087
    Some people do it, the only way I'd ever even think about paying more than a year in advance myself is if the company is *VERY* reputable and I *knew* I could get a pro-rated refund if there became a major issue... I don't know of any companies that you could be sure this would happen.
    Michael Denney - MDDHosting LLC
    New shared plans for 2016! Check them out!
    Highly Available Shared, Premium, Reseller, and VPS
    http://www.mddhosting.com/

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Barcelona, Spain
    Posts
    3,397
    And still, its only 200 bucks. That's abnormally cheap.
    hi there!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    12
    Oh that is ridiculously cheap. I dont know how they could last long at those prices.

  17. #17
    Very nice new website atchoooo, congrats.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chicago, IL, USA
    Posts
    1,235
    Quote Originally Posted by rexrjacob View Post
    Oh that is ridiculously cheap. I dont know how they could last long at those prices.
    Because nobody will ever use all that space and traffic.
    RageTracks.com -- Discover the latest Electronic Dance Music

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    16,087
    That and, if you register for 10 years and then violate the ToS in 5 month's you're screwed.
    Michael Denney - MDDHosting LLC
    New shared plans for 2016! Check them out!
    Highly Available Shared, Premium, Reseller, and VPS
    http://www.mddhosting.com/

  20. #20
    unreasonable prices and space, ofcourse they are oversellers.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL USA
    Posts
    2,781
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Burtan View Post
    Because nobody will ever use all that space and traffic.
    People *try* to use the promised space, but will quickly get suspended for resource abuse.

    Seriously, it's getting kinda sad, everywhere I look hosts are trying to top each other with overselling.
    CloudRck.com - Host on Cloudrck
    Unmetered VPS Solutions at it's finest

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10,574
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyB View Post
    No

    There just are people who say they aren't oversellers.
    Tony,

    I respectfully disagree, but I can understand where you are coming from. The term "overselling" carries a rather variable definition on this forum. However, for the sake of this discussion, let's use consistent terminology. To oversell, is to allocate more resources to your customers than are physically available to you. There are many degrees of overselling, some better controlled or easier controlled than others. There are business models that a) require overselling and rely on volume [to a varying degree]; b) do not require overselling but use it as a tool to maximize profits; c) don't require it and don't follow it.

    If a provider does not oversell their disk storage or data transfer (bandwidth) allocations, this will often result in a more reliable and faster service. You might say that CPU is a huge factor in this, but you also need to go back to the basics, and remember what actually results in higher CPU usage. When a client is provided with dozens of scripts available in an auto-installer, all pre-packaged ready to go, the client will undoubtedly feel inclined to use some of them. So, let's assume that the customer creates a new Joomla-based site. Their site does quite well and they see that there are nowhere near their data transfer allocation and feel that they plenty of room to grow with their current hosting package. Or so they thought, anyhow. They receive a letter from their hosting company stating that they are using too many resources on the system, and must upgrade to a dedicated server (or something to that effect). The client was misguided by high allocations that simply cannot be met. This is the nature of the extreme overselling that is very prevalent in the hosting industry today. It is almost impossible to reach these allocations while using the tools/features given to the customer. Disclaimer: Note that I did say almost, in certain situations, it may be possible to reach these allocations, but that isn't likely when a hosting a typical site that in this day and age, will more than likely make use of some dynamic application. This is Web 2.0 after all.

    As you can see in the example provided above (note that this is not limited to the above example, and is evident in many scenarios), the customer is misguided by these allocations. Moreover, these allocations can serve as a method of limiting CPU usage in many situations (based on my real-world experiences). If the customer above was with a company that does not oversell to such an extreme extent, or doesn't do it at all (Discalimer: I do not have a problem with overselling itself, especially if done in a controlled and limited fashion) they would likely have hit their allocation and be ready to upgrade. This promotes equal share of resources that are difficult to accurately measure/limit on a per customer basis, such as CPU.

    There is of course the argument that a customer with a very heavy usage script can bog down a server without getting anywhere near their allocation, whether the host is overselling or not. The truth is, that type of customer would be considered abusive by just about any host, and would have to stop using that script or look into other hosting solutions. This certainly isn't a typical user (based on my own real-world experience in this industry) and shouldn't be used as an example to argue against the point.

    Next, we have the argument that every provider must be overselling their support. The trouble is, there isn't a finite number of requests that a staff member can handle. But even more important to mention, this has no impact on the quality of the hosting environment itself - that is, how fast the website loads, the health of the server, and overall reliability of the hosting solution. Again, this isn't a valid way to argue against the point either.

    Last but not last, we have the argument that only "small" hosting providers will claim that they do not oversell. Unfortunately, this isn't true either. IBM and Sun, among others, offer on-demand hosting solutions in environments where excess capacity is available for customers that need "burstable" or easily expanded solutions. In other words, that means some of the largest hosting providers do not oversell.

    Sorry for the long post, but I feel this is something that needed to be clarified.
    Last edited by layer0; 03-24-2008 at 03:40 PM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    Sorry for the long post, but I feel this is something that needed to be clarified.
    Great post

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,582
    People around here throw around overselling is when you offer 1000GB space and 10000GB of bandwidth on a hosting account.

    That is not the only way you can oversell and so many say yeah I don't oversell I sell packages with 1GB space.

    If I had a 100GB of usable space and sold 101 accounts that would still be overselling.

    That is how it started and apparently now people don't even believe that doing that is overselling at all. You see lots of people making posts and claiming they do not oversell but common can you honestly believe them?

    I could name a few on here who do not oversell and it's pretty obvious by the size of their plans and their prices. But the majority around here it's quite clear they have no idea what the term even means now.

    So summarize offering small abouts of space and bandwidth does not equate to you not overselling.
    Tony B. - Chief Executive Officer
    Hawk Host Inc. Proudly serving websites since 2004
    Quality Shared and VPS Hosting
    PHP 5.3.x & PHP 5.4.x & PHP 5.5.X & PHP 5.6.X & PHP 7.0.X Support!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,913
    There is of course the argument that a customer with a very heavy usage script can bog down a server without getting anywhere near their allocation, whether the host is overselling or not. The truth is, that type of customer would be considered abusive by just about any host, and would have to stop using that script or look into other hosting solutions.
    There would also be the argument that $10 can only allow one to push, with the average application out there, a certain amount of GB per month. You can't push 1TB of data transfer, but you may be able to push 10GB, or possibly more, depending on the valiables.

    The "limited overselling" hosts will put a hard limit on data transfer to limit CPU usage. The others will, effectively, not put a limit on data transfer, and use CPU to limit it. Each approach comes with advantages for some users, and disadvantages for others.

    Unfortunately, this isn't true either. IBM and Sun, among others, offer on-demand hosting solutions in environments where excess capacity is available for customers that need "burstable" or easily expanded solutions. In other words, that means some of the largest hosting providers do not oversell.
    It may seem that way, but then, would they have the capacity to cover a 100% increase in demand of all their customers, in a span of 24 hours? After all, their business proposition means you can take care of your business, make it grow, and they'll take care of you while you grow. But they do assume that the demand will rise within certain limits, in a certain amount of time.

    The trouble is, there isn't a finite number of requests that a staff member can handle.
    The number most certainly isn't infinite either though, and hosts, or the vast majority of them, still offer what is basically unlimited support.

    But even more important to mention, this has no impact on the quality of the hosting environment itself - that is, how fast the website loads, the health of the server, and overall reliability of the hosting solution. Again, this isn't a valid way to argue against the point either.
    I will have to disagree there. Overselling has nothing to do with how the servers perform, as per your definition. So, the fact that the service is unaffected cannot be an argument when discussing whether or not overselling is being employed.

    Second, if all servers fail (through some miracle, or rather, disaster), no support team will be able to continue to answer in a timely manner = in such a way as for the customers not to notice a difference compared to normal/regular service. So, the unlimited support, has its limits.

    I do agree that there are hosting companies not overselling the data transfer and space they have from their providers though. I see no reason why that can't happen.
    Last edited by ldcdc; 03-24-2008 at 05:38 PM.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10,574
    There would also be the argument that $10 can only allow one to push, with the average application out there, a certain amount of GB per month. You can't push 1TB of data transfer, but you may be able to push 10GB, or possibly more, depending on the valiables.

    The "limited overselling" hosts will put a hard limit on data transfer to limit CPU usage. The others will, effectively, not put a limit on data transfer, and use CPU to limit it. Each approach comes with advantages for some users, and disadvantages for others.
    The customer will generally not see this is a good thing, from the complaints I've read all over the web. Data transfer is something that the customer can observe on their own, CPU isn't. Setting data transfer to essentially infinity as you suggest doesn't seem like the best method to me personally, but I do agree that there are many different methods out there and different perspectives from which you can look at this.

    I will have to disagree there. Overselling has nothing to do with how the servers perform, as per your definition. So, the fact the service is unaffected cannot be an argument.
    I didn't meant to say there was no relationship between performance and overselling - sorry for any confusion. There definitely isn't a direct relationship, however there they do have something to do with each other in many situations.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by edaindia View Post
    I have been searching for a decent shared hosting provider for a few months and had nearly finalized on iweb based on their uptime ratings on netcraft and reasonable specifications(the micro/mini ... plans) Today When I visited their website I found them offering 600GB storage and hosting for <$2 did they turn oversellers? When? In case they are oversellers I am now back to stage one. Can anyone recommend a respectable host for a shared hosting plan.... My requirements are
    500MB Storage
    <1Gb monthly Transfer
    2K page views per day.
    Each page will use ssi + perl-cgi(XML:OM and DBI) +Mysql
    Just stick with a smaller company with good support and personality. You will find it more comfortable.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,913
    Data transfer is something that the customer can observe on their own, CPU isn't
    Agreed, I have a beef with that too.

    I didn't meant to say there was no relationship between performance and overselling - sorry for any confusion. There definitely isn't a direct relationship, however there they do have something to do with each other in many situations.
    I agree and don't dispute the empirical evidence that overselling can lead to trouble. It most certainly can.

    However, that part of my post was actually about overselling customer support, and its validity as reason to judge if a host oversells or not.

    To further explain my point, if the servers are performing fine, it doesn't mean support is not oversold (or even overloaded), just as bandwidth being plenty doesn't mean disk space is not oversold (or even running out). Support is in many ways like CPU for it's hard to define where overselling begins (at least in a shared hosting environment).

    Point: Host puts 100 accounts per server (low by most standards) and allows any customer to use up to say 10% (or 2%) of the computing capacity (could be public or internal policy). I suppose opinions will vary, but I see that as overselling, since not all customers could use all that the host offers at the same time.

    Again, I've got nothing against claims of "no overselling", as long as the provider explains what exactly isn't oversold, and its claim can stand scrutiny. Overselling can easily sneak up on the best of us.
    Last edited by ldcdc; 03-24-2008 at 08:24 PM.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10,574
    In most threads, we are discussing the impact of overselling on the hosting environment itself. Honestly, this doesn't really pertain to support, at least not directly. You did mention earlier that if support is 'overloaded' with many requests they would have less time to address server issues, and therefore affect the hosting environment. But, this only applies if those handling support are the same people who are handling systems administration - at many companies, that isn't the case. Or, perhaps the company has provisions for when such a thing occurs. Actually, in my opinion, this is part of running a successful business. I know of several companies that actually have a standby team of outsourced representatives that can handle tickets while their own in-house staff are busy with other issues. If done right, this can result in no visible reduction in quality to the customer and better delegation of tasks. If there's essentially an instant/automatic "failsafe" present for support, would you still consider that to be overselling?

    Just some food for thought - I am enjoying this discussion.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10,574
    In regards to CPU -

    Point: Host puts 100 accounts per server (low by most standards) and allows any customer to use up to say 10% (or 2%) of the computing capacity (could be public or internal policy). I suppose opinions will vary, but I see that as overselling, since not all customers could use all that the host offers at the same time.
    If a host states that 2% or 10% CPU is the maximum they will allow from an account, that doesn't mean they actually "offer" that amount of CPU, it simply means this is the maximum that a customer can burst to. At least, that is how I have always viewed it

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,913
    But, this only applies if those handling support are the same people who are handling systems administration - at many companies, that isn't the case.
    I was not really disputing the ability to handle issues. But, if all servers are down, and tons of customers are engaging the support team, response time will drop, with the vast majority of hosts out there that have a decent number of customers. The time to take care of all servers can also suffer. I don't think there's any host out there with a tech per server, one tech per customer, or able to migrate any number of servers in 1 hour if the situation so requires etc. Some would call this "just life", I would call it, using more words, "life as a result of hidden overselling(-like) practices, enabling us to enjoy things at certain costs, assuming certain risks, whether we realize we take them or not".

    If there's essentially an instant/automatic "failsafe" present for support, would you still consider that to be overselling?
    If a provider that oversells can get more bandwidth almost instantly when needed, is it no longer overselling? If a provider that oversells can add a hard drive almost instantly (or say when the current disk is xx% full, so that service is not affected) is it still overselling? I still call it overselling. The practice remains, as do its intended effects (efficient use of resources/saving money/add hard drives only when and where necessary). Some are good managers, some are not so good, some have certain quality standards, some don't know what quality is.

    If a host states that 2% or 10% CPU is the maximum they will allow from an account, that doesn't mean they actually "offer" that amount of CPU, it simply means this is the maximum that a customer can burst to. At least, that is how I have always viewed it
    But if 100 users are given a 100mbps line to share, with bursts of up to 10mbps freely allowed, what would you say about that line, is it or is it not oversold?

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10,574
    I was not really disputing the ability to handle issues. But, if all servers are down, and tons of customers are engaging the support team, response time will drop, with the vast majority of hosts out there that have a decent number of customers. The time to take care of all servers can also suffer. I don't think there's any host out there with a tech per server, one tech per customer, or able to migrate any number of servers in 1 hour if the situation so requires etc. Some would call this "just life", I would call it, using more words, "life as a result of hidden overselling(-like) practices, enabling us to enjoy things at certain costs, assuming certain risks, whether we realize we take them or not".
    Yet there is no constant definition of a "good" support response time - everyone has a different opinion. Moreover, once again, if there is a "behind the scenes" team available, ready for when the helpdesk is "overloaded" with requests, response times or quality shouldn't be an issue, and the team dedicated to systems administration can take care of issues as needed. If a server has 100GB [usable] storage, and you sell <=100 1GB packages, you're not overselling that particular resource. But, with support, there is no such equation or law to go by. Even if there is a tech for every customer, what if a customer has multiple requests? I don't consider this overselling, when there's no preset equation or methodology to determine the number of techs that should be made available.

    If a provider that oversells can get more bandwidth almost instantly when needed, is it no longer overselling? If a provider that oversells can add a hard drive almost instantly (or say when the current disk is xx% full, so that service is not affected) is it still overselling? I still call it overselling. The practice remains, as do its intended effects (efficient use of resources/saving money/add hard drives only when and where necessary). Some are good managers, some are not so good, some have certain quality standards, some don't know what quality is.
    I believe you may have misunderstood, there's a very clear difference between the two.

    1) You have the ability to upgrade or purchase additional bandwidth, but you don't physically have anything available, i.e. nothing is guaranteed.

    2) You have an additional upstream provider in place for use in such "overflow" situations. This bandwidth is guaranteed, and already provisioned and will automatically be used in such an instance.

    Let's also go ahead and use disk storage since you mentioned it -

    1) Consider a provider that has a server with a single hard disk that is almost full. They can purchase an additional hard disk if needed, but this will cause downtime and take some time as part of the order process.

    2) Consider a provider that has a server with a single hard disk that is almost full - but, they have access to a SAN provided by their upstream provider which they have made arrangements to instantly use for "overflow" purposes. The storage is physically available to them already - they are selling something that physically have (i.e. reserved), in #1 they are not.

    Of course, this doesn't often happen with storage, and only sometimes with bandwidth (based on what I've seen in this industry). But, my original thought was regarding support.

    But if 100 users are given a 100mbps line to share, with bursts of up to 10mbps freely allowed, what would you say about that line, is it or is it not oversold?
    If the users are told that they are guaranteed 1mbps at any time, and can burst to 100mbps, and dynamic traffic shaping takes place to ensure that each user is given access to 1mbps at any time, then no, it is not oversold. A good example of this is burst RAM on a VPS. If a provider is not overselling in terms of guaranteed RAM, but informing their users that they can burst to X level, it isn't overselling. RAM is dynamically allocated by the virtualization software. Disclaimer: Virtualization certainly isn't perfect, but it should be sufficient for this example (I think ).

    I guess in the end, it truly comes to down to opinion on these specific issues. There are many different viewpoints, and I respect that.
    Last edited by layer0; 03-25-2008 at 12:00 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •