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  1. #1

    Unhappy Running Xen with a BurstNet reseller

    OK, I ordered a dedicated server for Windows VPS testing (XEN). I ordered it with CentOS 5. I got it 4 days later with Fedora. I just thought, it doesn't matter they function the same, so I just let it go. I installed Xen/HyperVM and rebooted. It didn't bounce back so I created a ticket:

    Hiya,

    I ordered a new server, installed Xen/HyperVM and rebooted it and it didn't boot back.

    Please reboot it.

    Also, can you tell me what the operating system field says on the order if you can access it?

    - Cameron
    Then BurstNet Replied:

    This server has been rebooted. It should be back up shortly.


    Name removed for privacy
    Technical Support
    BurstNET Technologies, Inc.
    It didn't bounce back here still so I added a new reply:

    It doesn't seem to have bounced back...

    Any idea why?

    - Cameron
    Then they replied again:

    It's coming back online now. The server was unable to mount / using your Xen kernel.


    Name Removed For Privacy
    Technical Support
    BurstNET Technologies, Inc.
    So I put:

    So it can't use Xen???
    Then, I had a new tech replied. This tech appears to have something against me as I went off at him in another ticket because he suggested I get a reformat because they couldn't get Fantastico working:

    Hello,

    No one is telling you what you may do with your server.

    Your Xen kernel seemed to not be able to boot on the machine. We do not support Xen or custom kernels. So can not help you with this any further.

    Thank you,
    Name removed for privacy
    Technical Support
    Now this is what annoyed me. Where does it say in their TOS/AUP and all their other agreements that they don't support custom kernels? It says they don't do kernel upgrades, but I don't think that that's relevant, right?

    I didn't say anyone was telling me anything...


    You don't support Xen? Why the hell not? I bought this server for windows VPS testing. I know you must support kernals like this as one of your resellers use them for their VPS's.....

    I don't know if you have something against me because I went off at you in the other ticket or something but this is a load of rubbish. It wasn't a personal attack, it was against BurstNet as a whole...

    If you refuse to help, I'll give your datacenter a call and have a chat about this because you cannot tell me after I have ordered that you don't support kernals except your own! That's pretty much telling me what I may do with the server, correct?

    Also, just another thing while I'm at creating a long angry ticket, I ordered CentOS and got Fedora, What the hell is that about?

    Thank you.
    Cameron
    Here I started to get angry... But what do you expect?

    Hello,

    What our resellers support is different from what we support. We do not support Xen.

    If you have an issue with what we support, I can reassign this ticket to Customer Service or you may contact them separate from this ticket.

    What you can do with your server and what we support (as far as Technical Support) are two totally different things.

    Thank you,
    Name removed for privacy
    Technical Support
    Once again, where does it say they don't support Xen? Doesn't tell you before you order does it?

    OK, so hold on. Your saying your resellers are allowed Xen and I'm not? Is that it? Or am I not reading correctly.

    I'll ring customer support. What time is it there? Is there anybody there at this time?

    So your telling me I can use Xen?

    Thank You.
    This ticket was confusing... I wasn't sure whether he was saying that they didn't allow it or didn't support it

    Hello,

    No you are failing to understand the issue. The kernel that you are trying to boot fails to boot. That is not something we did. You tried to boot a custom kernel and it didn't work. That is the problem. We do not support debugging why your custom kernel did not boot correctly.

    You are allowed to run Xen. You are allowed to do almost whatever you wish with your server.

    What you are not allowed is support for issues with things we do not support.

    Our resellers are on their own to fix the issues that are outside of the support contract also. If they run Xen, that is their business. Until they need some technical support that is within the support contract, then we never hear from them.

    We do not provide services that are not paid for. While your problem may be frustrating, you are focusing it in the wrong direction.

    Our customer service department doesn't arrive in the office till 9AM (EST). It is currently 3:40AM (EST).

    Thank you,
    Name removed for privacy
    Technical Support
    And finally I posted

    OK, I'll give customer support a nice call. I can't really do anything if the kernal doesn't boot... Also can you show me in the TOS/AUP where it says you don't support such kernals. I have read it but I can't seem to find it.

    - Cameron
    And this is where it ended... What do you guys think? Sound like a load of crap to you?

  2. #2
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    I think you might of grabbed the wrong end of the stick. What is happening is the precompiled kernel you are using isn't working on their hardware. Let pretend the stock kernel uses the a driver inside the kernel called works_mostly. If the Xen kernel which is already compiled doesn't have that driver in that will mean it fails to find the disk drives and fails to boot (I know technically there are lots of things/reasons but just trying to keep this simple)

    What burst is saying is their support contract means they won't recompile this kernel for you and you have to do it yourself. That is the basic crux of it
    Russ Foster - Industry Curmudgeon

  3. #3
    Ah right, any idea on how to fix it ?

  4. #4
    You need to find a list of modules that are active in the vanilla kernel for fedora and the ones active in the xen version of the kernel, which is supplied with it. Once you have those you can compile a custom xen kernel and it will boot. You can also just ask them for full info on hw they use, like model numbers / manufacturers. This will probably be faster, than messing around comparing all those modules.

    BTW: if the server you ordered is unmanaged, then the support rep is 100% correct in what he says. Kernel compilations and debugging is a managed service.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by torqhost View Post
    You need to find a list of modules that are active in the vanilla kernel for fedora and the ones active in the xen version of the kernel, which is supplied with it. Once you have those you can compile a custom xen kernel and it will boot. You can also just ask them for full info on hw they use, like model numbers / manufacturers. This will probably be faster, than messing around comparing all those modules.

    BTW: if the server you ordered is unmanaged, then the support rep is 100% correct in what he says. Kernel compilations and debugging is a managed service.
    Right, I'm a total newbie and my server admin is on holiday... How much will it cost me for someone here to do it? also is anyone here able to?

  6. #6
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    Rack911/ Admingeekz will charge $50-60 to compile it up for you
    Russ Foster - Industry Curmudgeon

  7. #7
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    I assume this server is managed then? What you should do is ask for CentOS 5 like you requested, then rebuild from there.

  8. #8
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    NetXHosting,

    Honestly you are very quick with your temper it seems and no one is telling you this but I will. You are being pretty rude to Burst for no reason. Can you explain why you think Burst should support anything you put on your server? Let me try to illustrate what I mean.

    If I buy one of your VPS and install a custom game server that I wrote that requires very specific kernel setup and my game server is either slow or doesn't run would you support me? I bet that no where in your TOS do you say "I don't support custom gameservers". This doesn't mean that I can't run one, just when I run into trouble, I am on my own. That is pretty much the definition of unmanaged.

    I do think it's weird that they missed the OS installation and would not reply to that question as I am fairly sure HYPERVM will not run windows vps in XEN if the base OS on the node is CENTOS at least it would not before unless they resolved it.

    First step is get them to correct it not by saying "h*ll" and clearly you were pretty rude in another ticket. Just again consider if I was your client and was talking to you like that. I would hope you would just refund the money and say forget it go find another host. I think what is happening is that they are seeing a pretty belligerent attitude (perhaps with good reason but in this case, I think not) and are not reading the entire ticket. No one likes to deal with someone who is being like that.

  9. #9
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    The title of the thread should be.
    "Want to use Xen? Actually know what it is!"
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  10. #10
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    One more thing to add: We did NOT install the wrong O/S.
    This individual is not actually our direct client, as the server was ordered thru a reseller. The reseller did not select an O/S on our order form, and therefore by default we installed Fedora Core 7, our default O/S.
    .
    .

  11. #11
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    Rather comical that he goes through a reseller, and is asking BurstNET for support, when they should be asking the reseller for support?

    Sounds like NetX needs to communicate with whom they ordered it through, as they made the OS mistake and not BurstNET. If the OS was installed wrong by burst, they would have fixed it, that much I am for sure
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  12. #12
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    I have been playing with HyperVM recently.

    If you had used the script they provided you should be able to just switch back to the older kernel. I have no idea why you tried your own compiled version. That is just a recipe for disaster especially since you don't have access to the console.

    Also windows does run on Xen (with centos as Base).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurstNET View Post
    One more thing to add: We did NOT install the wrong O/S.
    This individual is not actually our direct client, as the server was ordered thru a reseller. The reseller did not select an O/S on our order form, and therefore by default we installed Fedora Core 7, our default O/S.
    .
    .
    Ah thanks for clarifying that BurstNET. I retract my statement then

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by omega36 View Post
    I assume this server is managed then? What you should do is ask for CentOS 5 like you requested, then rebuild from there.
    I will request it formatted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolraul View Post
    NetXHosting,

    Honestly you are very quick with your temper it seems and no one is telling you this but I will. You are being pretty rude to Burst for no reason. Can you explain why you think Burst should support anything you put on your server? Let me try to illustrate what I mean.

    If I buy one of your VPS and install a custom game server that I wrote that requires very specific kernel setup and my game server is either slow or doesn't run would you support me? I bet that no where in your TOS do you say "I don't support custom gameservers". This doesn't mean that I can't run one, just when I run into trouble, I am on my own. That is pretty much the definition of unmanaged.

    I do think it's weird that they missed the OS installation and would not reply to that question as I am fairly sure HYPERVM will not run windows vps in XEN if the base OS on the node is CENTOS at least it would not before unless they resolved it.

    First step is get them to correct it not by saying "h*ll" and clearly you were pretty rude in another ticket. Just again consider if I was your client and was talking to you like that. I would hope you would just refund the money and say forget it go find another host. I think what is happening is that they are seeing a pretty belligerent attitude (perhaps with good reason but in this case, I think not) and are not reading the entire ticket. No one likes to deal with someone who is being like that.
    This server is for testing, not actual VPS's. I started getting annoyed as the particular tech had done something exactly like this. Just said they couldn't fix it and to pay more money which annoyed me.

    Quote Originally Posted by daejuanj View Post
    The title of the thread should be.
    "Want to use Xen? Actually know what it is!"
    I know what Xen is... My SysAdmin is just on holiday for a week or 2 and I thought it would be a normal straightfoward install as it has been on my other servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurstNET View Post
    One more thing to add: We did NOT install the wrong O/S.
    This individual is not actually our direct client, as the server was ordered thru a reseller. The reseller did not select an O/S on our order form, and therefore by default we installed Fedora Core 7, our default O/S.
    .
    .
    I'll have a chat to them about that....

    Quote Originally Posted by CrissicSolutions View Post
    Rather comical that he goes through a reseller, and is asking BurstNET for support, when they should be asking the reseller for support?

    Sounds like NetX needs to communicate with whom they ordered it through, as they made the OS mistake and not BurstNET. If the OS was installed wrong by burst, they would have fixed it, that much I am for sure
    The reseller told me that BurstNet does all the support, and contact them, so I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darvil View Post
    I have been playing with HyperVM recently.

    If you had used the script they provided you should be able to just switch back to the older kernel. I have no idea why you tried your own compiled version. That is just a recipe for disaster especially since you don't have access to the console.

    Also windows does run on Xen (with centos as Base).
    I didn't try my own kernal I just got the server and installed HyperVM...

  15. #15
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    Ah gotcha.

    Good luck with this.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=NetXHosting;

    I didn't try my own kernal I just got the server and installed HyperVM...[/QUOTE]

    Ummm why didn't you just ask them to change the kernel during the bootup? I suppose you expected them to troubleshoot the problem.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Darvil View Post
    Ummm why didn't you just ask them to change the kernel during the bootup? I suppose you expected them to troubleshoot the problem.
    No, Xen automatically switches itself. They just said I couldn't use it...

  18. #18
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    Yes it does

    but you can just edit the grub.conf to go back to the previous kernel. You would of course would have to ask them to boot into the other kernel first. I'm sure they could do that for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by NetXHosting View Post
    No, Xen automatically switches itself. They just said I couldn't use it...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Darvil View Post
    Yes it does

    but you can just edit the grub.conf to go back to the previous kernel. You would of course would have to ask them to boot into the other kernel first. I'm sure they could do that for you.
    OK, I'm not sure that you understand.

    Booting into Xen does not work... It just won't boot.

  20. #20
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    I understand that.

    All I'm saying is you can boot from the pre-xen kernel to get back into your system. Hypervm installs the xen kernel but it doesn't override the older kernel. You can then figure out what is wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by NetXHosting View Post
    OK, I'm not sure that you understand.

    Booting into Xen does not work... It just won't boot.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Darvil View Post
    I understand that.

    All I'm saying is you can boot from the pre-xen kernel to get back into your system. Hypervm installs the xen kernel but it doesn't override the older kernel. You can then figure out what is wrong.
    It's already booted back into the pre-xen kernel, I just don't know how to troubleshoot it

  22. #22
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    all right. haha

    I'm actually surprised its panicking. Must be an odd case

    Good luck.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Darvil View Post
    all right. haha

    I'm actually surprised its panicking. Must be an odd case

    Good luck.
    Thanks, I'm going to get the person I brought the server from to pay for CentOS to be installed

  24. #24
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    There's a big difference between "we don't support it" and "we don't allow it".

    They're not saying you CAN'T use Xen... they're saying it's not their job to help you use it. Unless you're paying them specifically to help you install and use Xen.
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  25. #25
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    Looks like another thread related to " Communication problem "

  26. #26
    I'm pretty sure it isn't a software issue. The hardware and cpu has to support XEN. It won't work on (for example) a Celeron and cheap RAM. Not saying that's what it was on, just saying, the cpu and mobo has to support true virtualization.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by page-zone View Post
    I'm pretty sure it isn't a software issue. The hardware and cpu has to support XEN. It won't work on (for example) a Celeron and cheap RAM. Not saying that's what it was on, just saying, the cpu and mobo has to support true virtualization.
    Well it's a dual-core CPU with VT enabled so it should support Xen, Right?

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by NetXHosting View Post
    Well it's a dual-core CPU with VT enabled so it should support Xen, Right?
    Not sure, some systems you have to specifically set it in the BIOS, even if all the hardfware is capable otherwise. My experience with it is limited to setting up one machine, once. It was a Supermicro/XEON E5335 (quad core)/ FBDIMM RAM and had to specifically set it in the BOIS for XEN
    Last edited by page-zone; 03-13-2008 at 02:25 AM.

  29. #29
    Um... Who keeps changing the title of this topic

  30. #30
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    Looks like it took 'em a few times. But they finally got it right.
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