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  1. #1
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    VO bulk reseller out!

    Hi,
    Venturesonline roll out Bulk type reseller plan (WHM/CPanel), and stop offering old plans.
    I think the bulk reseller war begins, because VO is a key player in the market.
    Any one can talk about their uptime?

  2. #2
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    Re: VO bulk reseller out!

    Originally posted by NelsonT
    Hi,
    Venturesonline roll out Bulk type reseller plan (WHM/CPanel), and stop offering old plans.
    I think the bulk reseller war begins, because VO is a key player in the market.
    Any one can talk about their uptime?
    out of the six months i was there, approx 15 minutes.

  3. #3
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    Re: VO bulk reseller out!

    Originally posted by NelsonT
    Hi,
    Venturesonline roll out Bulk type reseller plan (WHM/CPanel), and stop offering old plans.
    I think the bulk reseller war begins, because VO is a key player in the market.
    Any one can talk about their uptime?
    IMO, the old reseller plans where you buy your domain's hosting 1 at a time for a discount is dying fast. Any host who thinks they'll get long term growth with that business model is in for a rough ride.

    I challenge anyone to conduct a survey - "What do resellers want" - (1). To buy each domain's hosting separately for a discount. (2). Buy "X" amount of disk space and "X" amount of data transfer and host as many domains as you can fit inside those 2 useage parameters.

    (2) would be the most popular by a LONG_SHOT!!
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  4. #4
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    Re: Re: VO bulk reseller out!

    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    IMO, the old reseller plans where you buy your domain's hosting 1 at a time for a discount is dying fast. Any host who thinks they'll get long term growth with that business model is in for a rough ride.

    I challenge anyone to conduct a survey - "What do resellers want" - (1). To buy each domain's hosting separately for a discount. (2). Buy "X" amount of disk space and "X" amount of data transfer and host as many domains as you can fit inside those 2 useage parameters.

    (2) would be the most popular by a LONG_SHOT!!


    I would disagree with you on that we was doing quite well on the old plans and after a revamp we will be back offering them once more in addition to the bulk plans.

    You got to remember not everybody has cash sitting around to pay out each month for bulk space they my not sell.

  5. #5
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    Re: Re: Re: VO bulk reseller out!

    Originally posted by Paul L.
    I would disagree with you on that we was doing quite well on the old plans and after a revamp we will be back offering them once more in addition to the bulk plans.

    You got to remember not everybody has cash sitting around to pay out each month for bulk space they my not sell.
    $20/mth is "cash sitting around" ? Heck, you can get WHM/CPanel for $10/mth these days. So, money is no object anymore.

    Supply and demand rules the market. It's the reason that a company like mchost has grown so rapidly. If you give folks a choice of the 2 types of reseller plans, I would say the vast majority would take the WHM/Cpanel plan. Probably 95% to 5%. They can setup their own plans and edit each plan as they need to and don't need to run back to their supplier etc.

    Too many advantages to mention here. One question would support my statement - "Which type of reseller plan is growing the fastest?"
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  6. #6
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    Re: Re: Re: VO bulk reseller out!

    Originally posted by Paul L.




    I would disagree with you on that we was doing quite well on the old plans and after a revamp we will be back offering them once more in addition to the bulk plans.

    You got to remember not everybody has cash sitting around to pay out each month for bulk space they my not sell.
    I agree, plus with the older plans you would not have to oversell to make a guaranteed profit. I'm glad that VO will be bringing back the old plans in addition to the bulk plans.

  7. #7

    Re: Re: VO bulk reseller out!

    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    IMO, the old reseller plans where you buy your domain's hosting 1 at a time for a discount is dying fast. Any host who thinks they'll get long term growth with that business model is in for a rough ride.

    I challenge anyone to conduct a survey - "What do resellers want" - (1). To buy each domain's hosting separately for a discount. (2). Buy "X" amount of disk space and "X" amount of data transfer and host as many domains as you can fit inside those 2 useage parameters.

    (2) would be the most popular by a LONG_SHOT!!

    For people at WHT, there's no doubt about that.
    Annette
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  8. #8
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    When I have real data of whats best out of the 2 plans I will be sure to post it.

    I am sure both markets are doing just fine the only data you have is what is talked about here on WHT and that is still a very small % of the hosting market.

    I do agree there is a big market in bulk plans but I also know there is a demand for the pay by plan resellers also.

  9. #9
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    Aussie Bob,

    Of course there's "too many advantages"; it's clearly in your best interest. There's advantages and cons to both sides. Bulk plans are growing faster due to two things: specific plan creation and overselling. Also, with VO's old reseller plans there was no such thing as "running back to the supplier" as you stated.
    Modest Mouse Talk

  10. #10
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    I certainly agree Ventures Online are going to be very tough competition for players like MChost, Voxtreme, SplashHost etc. due to their long standing reputation in the industry.
    Chris Adams - CEO - Rochen Ltd. - chris (at) rochen (dot) com

    Now offering both US & UK premium business hosting, reseller hosting and managed virtualized services.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Re: Re: VO bulk reseller out!

    Originally posted by Annette



    For people at WHT, there's no doubt about that.
    What makes you think that folks from WHT are any different than anyone else?? Maybe they're a little more informed and educated of the options out there. Maybe this is why they prefer the bulk style reseller plan. I pity those folks who are less informed.

    BTW, I never mentioned WHT in this discussion. It is plain and clear that the client gets more benefits from a bulk style reseller plan as evidenced by the explosive growth of providers like mchost. As far as market trends and forces go, it would be safe to say the bulk style reseller plan is growing much faster than the older style plan.

    I cannot imagine a host building their hosting business using the older style plans where they have to run back to their host for every little thing. It's unimaginable.

    I would hazard a guess that 95% of resellers on an old style reseller plan would jump in a heartbeat to the bulk style reseller plans. There's no doubt that they're a fast growing section of the hosting market. This has got to hurt the existing reseller model.

    Just my thoughts...
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by vipe
    Also, with VO's old reseller plans there was no such thing as "running back to the supplier" as you stated.
    So you could do everything you can do with WHM with their old reseller plans then?? Could you setup instantly new domains? Could you edit the many features of that domain? Could you make changes to the DNS Zones?? Could you make changes to the MX records??

    If not, then there's "running back"
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  13. #13
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    Aussie Bob - I think that is all possible, providing you have purchased a "plan" ahead of time. I will agree with your point however that bulk reselling is the way forward and I think it really all depends on how many sites you are hosting. The old style reseller plan may still have a place for people wanting to host there own domains and only have a few. However when you reach say 3 or 5 domains on the older style plan it becomes far more cost effective to switch to the bulk kind. I also agree that the bulk plans offer far greater flexibility. A lot of it also comes down to personal choice.
    Chris Adams - CEO - Rochen Ltd. - chris (at) rochen (dot) com

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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    So you could do everything you can do with WHM with their old reseller plans then?? Could you setup instantly new domains? Could you edit the many features of that domain? Could you make changes to the DNS Zones?? Could you make changes to the MX records??

    If not, then there's "running back"

    Yup you sure can do all of that.

  15. #15
    Originally posted by rochen
    I certainly agree Ventures Online are going to be very tough competition for players like MChost, Voxtreme, SplashHost etc. due to their long standing reputation in the industry.
    There will always be competition ...until maybe something revolutionary and perhaps patented comes out. Things are always changing in the hosting industry.
    Marc Wyss - [email protected]
    MCHost Inc - Experts in Private Label Reseller Plans
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by Kiwi
    until maybe something revolutionary and perhaps patented comes out.
    I hope "another trend" (hint) will be coming along very soon
    Chris Adams - CEO - Rochen Ltd. - chris (at) rochen (dot) com

    Now offering both US & UK premium business hosting, reseller hosting and managed virtualized services.
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  17. #17
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    Originally posted by rochen
    I hope "another trend" (hint) will be coming along very soon
    I don't see anything major that can happen. I've racked my brain thinking about this but there's nothing much that can evolve that could be called "revolutionary". Maybe VPS, instant backup server solutions and outsourced support systems and stuff like that. I wouldn't call them a revolutionary leap.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by rochen
    Aussie Bob - I think that is all possible, providing you have purchased a "plan" ahead of time. I will agree with your point however that bulk reselling is the way forward and I think it really all depends on how many sites you are hosting. The old style reseller plan may still have a place for people wanting to host there own domains and only have a few. However when you reach say 3 or 5 domains on the older style plan it becomes far more cost effective to switch to the bulk kind. I also agree that the bulk plans offer far greater flexibility. A lot of it also comes down to personal choice.
    Yep. I've got heaps of emails from folks saying stuff like "I have 29 sites hosted with [hosting company] and I am paying about $200/mth. Are you saying that I can host them all in your [bulk reseller plan] for only $35/mth ??"

    It's hard for some folks to get their head around, but once they do, they rarely go back.
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by rochen
    I hope "another trend" (hint) will be coming along very soon
    Just be careful throwing around that word "soon".
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    Just be careful throwing around that word "soon".
    Of course, of course, how could I forget, thanks for reminding me Bob
    Chris Adams - CEO - Rochen Ltd. - chris (at) rochen (dot) com

    Now offering both US & UK premium business hosting, reseller hosting and managed virtualized services.
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  21. #21

    *

    Hard to discuss something with someone pretty well wrapped up in their own flag. The condescension doesn't help. Too bad, really, as I was wondering exactly what running a reseller has to do or what they need so much handholding on and can't do for themselves.

    More confirmation for my theory about WHT: here, it's more likely to be all about the price instead of the other things that go along with hosting anywhere. Funny, that, since we've been considering raising our reseller plan pricing to try and stem the number of resellers we get in any given month - which parallels increasing growth in regular hosting, as it happens. Of course, that didn't work when the price was higher before.....and we have yet another reseller coming from a bulk style host, bringing 18 domains along.

    So, the only thing known at this point is that nobody - not you, not me - knows which segment is growing faster. And in truth, what difference does it make? Either type is not "better" than the other. One is not uninformed because they choose one over the other. One is only uninformed when they do not properly investigate the upstream and have a proper business plan in place. We've all seen enough of that around here, I'd imagine.
    Annette
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Annette
    Hard to discuss something with someone pretty well wrapped up in their own flag.
    I am simply stating an opinion. Having a discussion. Sorry if I appear "wrapped up in their own flag".
    The condescension doesn't help.
    Where is this condescension? Please be specific.
    Too bad, really, as I was wondering exactly what running a reseller has to do or what they need so much handholding on and can't do for themselves.

    More confirmation for my theory about WHT: here, it's more likely to be all about the price instead of the other things that go along with hosting anywhere.
    Folks from WHT are exposed to more options etc. They're more aware [educated] of what's available in the market due to the large number of hosts that frequent here. They seek the bulk style reseller plans because they get a better deal. Simple.
    Funny, that, since we've been considering raising our reseller plan pricing to try and stem the number of resellers we get in any given month - which parallels increasing growth in regular hosting, as it happens. Of course, that didn't work when the price was higher before.....
    Good for you.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  23. #23
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    I missed your edit.
    Originally posted by Annette
    [B].....and we have yet another reseller coming from a bulk style host, bringing 18 domains along.
    And we had 2 yesterday back the other way. What's your point?
    So, the only thing known at this point is that nobody - not you, not me - knows which segment is growing faster. And in truth, what difference does it make? Either type is not "better" than the other.
    Both styles of reseller are good. For someone wanting to build a hosting business, then a bulk style account would be a better choice [IMO] for them. Preferably one with WHM/Cpanel where they can admin their domains themselves and get ready for a dedicated server, which is the next step...
    One is not uninformed because they choose one over the other. One is only uninformed when they do not properly investigate the upstream and have a proper business plan in place. We've all seen enough of that around here, I'd imagine.
    Yeah.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  24. #24
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob And we had 2 yesterday back the other way. What's your point?
    Perhaps read that in context instead of snipping it off. It means, as I have stated, that it's often about more than price.

    Where is this condescension? Please be specific.
    Saying that you "pity those folks who are less informed" is not exactly the height of good taste. More people don't visit WHT than do, and I'm sure most don't feel any less educated about their choices than people who do come to WHT.

    Folks from WHT are exposed to more options etc. They're more aware [educated] of what's available in the market due to the large number of hosts that frequent here. They seek the bulk style reseller plans because they get a better deal. Simple.
    I would not call WHT a bastion of people any better educated about hosting in general than the population at large. In fact, some display an astonishing naivete about hosting.

    They (resellers) getting a better deal does not necessarily equate to indicating that one particular type of plan is somehow better than the other, or that one is growing faster than the other, or that they are both growing at the same rate. You don't know the answer to that. Neither do I. I'm not, as you are, pronouncing either as "dying fast" or that hosts offering one or the other are "in for a rough ride". You don't know that. Neither do I.

    Some things that are excellent for the client are downright disastrous for the host - one need only look at the wealth of Cyberwings threads to see it. Hosting is about more than just pricing. You should reserve your pity for those who don't or won't understand that.

    BTW, I would still like to know what you think resellers can't do without running off to their hosts just because of what type of reseller plan they've chosen.
    Last edited by Annette; 08-17-2002 at 01:49 AM.
    Annette
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  25. #25
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    Originally posted by Annette
    BTW, I would still like to know what you think resellers can't do without running off to their hosts just because of what type of reseller plan they've chosen.
    Ok, where do we start with this one? Just list all the functions of the Reseller's WHM and that'll be a good start.

    This is a useless conversation. You're defending your reseller business model while I'm flying the flag for the type of reseller plan that we and many other hosts offer. Remember, we're talking personal opinions here, not established universal laws of the universe.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  26. #26
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    (Backwards)

    This is a useless conversation. You're defending your reseller business model while I'm flying the flag for the type of reseller plan that we and many other hosts offer. Remember, we're talking personal opinions here, not established universal laws of the universe.
    Uh, no - I'm not defending anything, considering that we've toyed with offering the bulk type accounts ourselves. In fact, unlike some people, I've not made any pronouncements whatsoever on the state of the state without any evidentiary offerings, or said that some fish in the ocean is dying just because I say so. I was, however, making a point about hosting being more than just pricing - something I fervently wish more people would grasp before this industry really goes down the toilet.

    Ok, where do we start with this one? Just list all the functions of the Reseller's WHM and that'll be a good start.
    I was just hoping to share with our resellers all the things they do on a daily basis that you say they can't do without running off to us simply because they chose one type of reseller plan over another. But if you can't answer it, you can't answer it. No problem.
    Annette
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  27. #27
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    Originally posted by Annette
    I was just hoping to share with our resellers all the things they do on a daily basis that you say they can't do without running off to us simply because they chose one type of reseller plan over another. But if you can't answer it, you can't answer it. No problem.
    I answered it. You just ignored the answer. Can you offer all the functions like in the reseller's WHM? Can they instantly add new domains, edit DNS Zones, MX records, change disk space and data transfer usages for domains and stuff like that?
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  28. #28
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    I answered it. You just ignored the answer. Can you offer all the functions like in the reseller's WHM? Can they instantly add new domains, edit DNS Zones, MX records and stuff like that?
    Ignored what? We use WHM on our servers. Why wouldn't they be able to do these things themselves? What exactly does this have to do with the type of reseller plan they choose?
    Annette
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  29. #29
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    Originally posted by Annette


    Ignored what? We use WHM on our servers. Why wouldn't they be able to do these things themselves?
    So your resellers get WHM where they setup their own domains inside their disk space and data transfer limitations?
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  30. #30
    Obviously they do not set up domains based on their own disk limitations, since as you know, we do not offer that type of reseller plan.

    You asked if resellers could add new domains. They can. Edit DNS zones? Sure. Edit MX records? Of course. They can also reset passwords. Terminate accounts. And so on. All the things that most people will be doing in day to life as a host. I'm genuinely confused here. What is it that you think they can't do based solely on the type of reseller plan they choose besides the specific function reserved for the bulk type - something you haven't mentioned until just now?
    Annette
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  31. #31
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    Aussie Bob
    Take in mind that with the "discount reseller type" resellers get a lot more of space and bandwidth in each plan.

    Ex: We have a reseller who bought 3 of our 1000 MB Plan, if he were bought 3 bulk resellers plans with that features, here were paid 2-3 times more than what he's paying to get that amount of space and bandwidth.
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  32. #32
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    Originally posted by Annette
    Obviously they do not set up domains based on their own disk limitations, since as you know, we do not offer that type of reseller plan.

    You asked if resellers could add new domains. They can. Edit DNS zones? Sure. Edit MX records? Of course. They can also reset passwords. Terminate accounts. And so on. All the things that most people will be doing in day to life as a host. I'm genuinely confused here. What is it that you think they can't do based solely on the type of reseller plan they choose besides the specific function reserved for the bulk type - something you haven't mentioned until just now?
    I'm confused as well. So, they don't use WHM but your own reseller panel that is performs functions for them like editing DNS Zone etc? But if they do use WHM, then how do you bill per domain? Do you have a demo of your reseller control panel that I could see?

    You asked what they can't do - well for one thing, they can't oversell like someone with a bulk reseller plan can do. [I know, I know - no arguments about the evils of overselling please.] This is a huge benefit to resellers and folks starting their own hosting businesses.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  33. #33
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    Originally posted by Jedito
    Aussie Bob
    Take in mind that with the "discount reseller type" resellers get a lot more of space and bandwidth in each plan.

    Ex: We have a reseller who bought 3 of our 1000 MB Plan, if he were bought 3 bulk resellers plans with that features, here were paid 2-3 times more than what he's paying to get that amount of space and bandwidth.
    True.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  34. #34
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    Originally posted by Annette
    ...In fact, unlike some people, I've not made any pronouncements whatsoever on the state of the state without any evidentiary offerings...
    You seemed to overlook my working of "IMO". [In my Opinion] -
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    IMO, the old reseller plans where you buy your domain's hosting...
    I'm expressing an opinion here which I have clearly quantified in the beginning with the above statement. Unlike others, I know that my opinions don't form the underlying foundations for univeral truths.

    Only the arrogant can claim that their opinions are "right" and other people's opinions are wrong, IMO.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  35. #35
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    I'm confused as well. So, they don't use WHM but your own reseller panel that is performs functions for them like editing DNS Zone etc? But if they do use WHM, then how do you bill per domain? Do you have a demo of your reseller control panel that I could see?
    They use WHM, all right. Some better than others.

    Billing per domain is really just a matter of having a system, just as it is for our regular hosting or dedicated clients. We take an extra step and give resellers detailed invoicing for their account with all their associated packages correlated with domain names, but I know others who do a simple tally (x of plan 1, y of plan 2, etc). Even if we didn't do it our way, a smallish host could just list reseller domains from the server WHM and count them up. I don't imagine that would scale very well, and I'd hate to have to do that with all of our boxes. That's a separate issue from cp functionality, though.
    Annette
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  36. #36
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    Originally posted by NelsonT

    I think the bulk reseller war begins, because VO is a key player in the market.

    Originally posted by rochen
    I certainly agree Ventures Online are going to be very tough competition for players like MChost, Voxtreme, SplashHost etc. due to their long standing reputation in the industry.
    People are so stuck in a box that live at WHT. I have been in this business for years and never heard of any of these guys until I came here. I will every once in a while see an MC Host ad, or a few others, but these guys do not offer anything above what the majority of other host now offer. Plus I never see these guys at trade shows I am at. Sorry if some one takes offense, but why think they are the leaders in the industry? Who says? WHT? Visit other locations. See their names? C-I-Host has like some 30,000 resellers (Actually I am sure many more by now). Look at their plans and reseller growth. They have discount and pay per use plans. Also, they don't have to advertise with some adjective like "30,000 *large* host" either. (What the hell is a large anyway???? Someone paying $35 for hosting is now a large host ). The point is, sure these guys are great WHT host. But broaden your horizons and don't worry about the competition. There are TONS of customers for everyone.



    Annette, you made some excellent points. You can see experience in your words.

  37. #37
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    Originally posted by Annette


    They use WHM, all right. Some better than others.

    Billing per domain is really just a matter of having a system, just as it is for our regular hosting or dedicated clients. We take an extra step and give resellers detailed invoicing for their account with all their associated packages correlated with domain names, but I know others who do a simple tally (x of plan 1, y of plan 2, etc). Even if we didn't do it our way, a smallish host could just list reseller domains from the server WHM and count them up. I don't imagine that would scale very well, and I'd hate to have to do that with all of our boxes. That's a separate issue from cp functionality, though.
    Thanks. Would you ever consider just giving your clients "X" amount of disk space and "X' amount of data transfer and charge them for it as a one package?
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
    Host Multiple Domains on Fast Australian Servers!!

  38. #38
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    You seemed to overlook my working of "IMO". [In my Opinion] -
    Yes, I did. My apologies.

    I'm expressing an opinion here which I have clearly quantified in the beginning with the above statement. Unlike others, I know that my opinions don't form the underlying foundations for univeral truths.

    Only the arrogant can claim that their opinions are "right" and other people's opinions are wrong, IMO.
    Good. I was starting to get a bit worried, having been around AWW long before this place - I thought perhaps I had been mistaken about the levels of intelligent disagreement, but see that was unfounded. I still don't like your uninformed comment, though, so there.
    Annette
    Hosting Matters, Inc.
    Superior service. Sensible price.

  39. #39
    Originally posted by Aussie Bob

    I don't see anything major that can happen. I've racked my brain thinking about this but there's nothing much that can evolve that could be called "revolutionary". Maybe VPS, instant backup server solutions and outsourced support systems and stuff like that. I wouldn't call them a revolutionary leap.
    VPS, instant backup, etc. isn't revolutionary, agreed. But back when the bulk style reseller plans started, nobody thought about it before either. There's still a few major things that all hosting companies seem to overlook.

    You know you want to get into my brain, Rob!
    Marc Wyss - [email protected]
    MCHost Inc - Experts in Private Label Reseller Plans
    http://www.mchost.com

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    24,009
    Originally posted by UmBillyCord
    Also, they don't have to advertise with some adjective like "30,000 *large* host" either. (What the hell is a large anyway???? Someone paying $35 for hosting is now a large host ).
    Are you referring to mchost's ad currently rotating here at WHT with the "2000 large hosting companies" ad copy?
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
    Host Multiple Domains on Fast Australian Servers!!

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