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  1. #1
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    * Enom email stupidity

    I open a ticket to ask about my reseller account at Enom, and the folks on their desk closed the ticket and asked me to email sales<at>enom.com directly. Ok, rather than you pass it to them, I'll comply.

    Using my ISP (since it's how I connect to the net, of course), I send it through the email at the server I use for my business, so it comes from the same domain and email address associated with the reseller account.
    It bounces.
    Client host [mail.mydomain.com] blocked by zen.spamhaus.org; http://www.spamhaus.org/query/bl?ip=66.24.xxx.xx
    66.24.xxx.xx <= RoadRunner, my ISP
    mail.mydomain.com <= the mail server, at a totally different IP (72.36.xxx.xxx)

    Rather than basing their block on the actual mail server, they spotted my ISP's IP in the headers and blocked based on that. This means I can't email them, ever, unless I log into webmail or something equally idiotic.
    Yeah, blacklists and Spamhaus are a really good idea.

    Well done, Enom. Well done.
    Last edited by bear; 03-08-2008 at 01:32 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Sounds frustrating, bear.

    One day, the person who finally solves SPAM and all problems associated with it will become a megadexahooplillionaire overnight.

    Vito
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    I open a ticket to ask about my reseller account at Enom, and the folks on their desk closed the ticket and asked me to email sales<at>enom.com directly. Ok, rather than you pass it to them, I'll comply.

    Using my ISP (since it's how I connect to the net, of course), I send it through the email at the server I use for my business, so it comes from the same domain and email address associated with the reseller account.
    It bounces.

    66.24.xxx.xx <= RoadRunner, my ISP
    mail.mydomain.com <= the mail server, at a totally different IP (72.36.xxx.xxx)

    Rather than basing their block on the actual mail server, they spotted my ISP's IP in the headers and blocked based on that. This means I can't email them, ever, unless I log into webmail or something equally idiotic.
    Yeah, blacklists and Spamhaus are a really good idea.

    Well done, Enom. Well done.
    How is your "IP being labelled as a known sender of spam" enom's problem?
    Last edited by larwilliams; 03-08-2008 at 01:32 PM. Reason: fixed comment
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by larwilliams View Post
    How is your "IP being labelled as a known sender of spam" enom's problem?
    spamhous.org is a service that works together with email providers and keeps track of IPs that can be or was used for spam, and Enon seems to be using it.

    Not all IPs listed on spamhous.org is from spammers. They have a list (claiming to be) of all dynamic IPs on the world. Since many spammers use links like DSL with dynamic IPs to send spam, blocking these IPs should reduce spam. I was cought on it too, I tried to use a local SMTP server once and yahoo.com blocked me because of my dynamic IP.

    What we should do on this situation? Use these free blocking but still full of spam email services, use our poor quality ISP services and stuck on their domain names, or pay for this service and also has the benefit of using our own domain name on it.


    If I understood well, he used his ISP email service, which should not be on spamhouse.org lists, but apparently Enon tested his personal IP (from where the email originally left), found it as a dynamic IP, and blocked his email. I suppose that because the "Client host" error message.

    bear did you already try webmain like you said? There is also the option your ISP was used for spam and is on their list, in that case you won't be able to send email from it to any email service that uses spamhous.org.

    You can also try to whitelist your IP on spamhous.org, but you will have to do it everytime you change your IP...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikari View Post
    If I understood well, he used his ISP email service, which should not be on spamhouse.org lists, but apparently Enon tested his personal IP (from where the email originally left), found it as a dynamic IP, and blocked his email. I suppose that because the "Client host" error message.
    Actually, no, that's incorrect. I connect to the internet using the blocked IP. The mail was sent from that connection, using the POP account of the domain that's associated with my Enom account. As for the ISP IP "shouldn't be blocked", I agree, but Spamhaus has decided that any ISP IP is suspect and blocked no matter what, it seems.
    The point is, I don't feel it should be basing mail denial on the IP I use to connect to the internet. From the message I got, it looked like the mail server was being seen as having the ISP's IP. This is false. It further means that *any* message I send while using my internet connection, regardless of POP account or server it's sent from, will be refused.
    There is also the option your ISP was used for spam and is on their list
    What are the odds someone, somewhere on RoadRunner has sent spam at some time?
    You can also try to whitelist your IP on spamhous.org, but you will have to do it everytime you change your IP...
    I don't own the IP, and they only allow someone with specific "rights" to even attempt removal. As has been stated, "They have a list (claiming to be) of all dynamic IPs on the world.", and I doubt they will be interested in removing my IP from that list.

    No, I stand by my assertion that Spamhaus is a broken system, and creates more problems than it resolves. Anyone relying on it to "fix" their spam issues is missing important mail, as they have IPs blocked that don't relate to an actual spam issue.

    @Vito: Love that number. It's my goal to reach that some day, and I'm just a little short ATM.

    @larwilliams:
    How is your "IP being labelled as a known sender of spam" enom's problem?
    I'd imagine it's because they receive a lot of spam each day. I can't blame them for trying to reduce that, but this is pointless. Reducing spam by blocking any email that contains a public ISP's IP is ludicrous, and bound to catch a ton of legitimate mail every day.

    Next one that tells me "what's the big deal about spam...just delete" gets smacked.
    Last edited by bear; 03-09-2008 at 08:55 AM. Reason: spelling
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  6. #6
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    Same sort of thing for "url blacklists" <- pisses me off. All it takes is one human editable / submittable blacklist to have my competitor list me as adult / porn, and bingo... my advertisers don't care that my site from all appearances is not porn, but would rather trust the information an anonymous tipster gave them (who I dare say is competition)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    Actually, no, that's incorrect. I connect to the internet using the blocked IP. The mail was sent from that connection, using the POP account of the domain that's associated with my Enom account. As for the ISP IP "shouldn't be blocked", I agree, but Spamhaus has decided that any ISP IP is suspect and blocked no matter what, it seems.

    The point is, I don't feel it should be basing mail denial on the IP I use to connect to the internet. From the message I got, it looked like the mail server was being seen as having the ISP's IP. This is false. It further means that *any* message I send while using my internet connection, regardless of POP account or server it's sent from, will be refused.
    hmm sorry, I didn't understand very well.

    How is exactaly your link connection? DSL, cable, dial up?
    Are you on a NAT sharing the same IP with lots of ppl, or you have a dynamic IP?

    As I understood, your IP is the same IP your ISP uses to serve SMTP and POP3...

    What are the odds someone, somewhere on RoadRunner has sent spam at some time?
    I don't own the IP, and they only allow someone with specific "rights" to even attempt removal. As has been stated, "They have a list (claiming to be) of all dynamic IPs on the world.", and I doubt they will be interested in removing my IP from that list.
    spamhous.org has 3 different lists: dynamic IP list, virus infected list, and spammer list. As I remember, we can remove any IP from any list just by giving them our email and relating it with that IP. Only the spam list is harder to remove.

    If you use dynamic IP, it is normal to be on that list only, I already removed my IP once and I assure it is not too hard to be done, but I'd need to remove 1 IP everytime my IP was changed, and wait email servers to update their lists.

    If you share you IP with anybody else, being it dynamic or being under NAT, you are always under risk of anybody else being infected by virus or willingly send spam from it, and this IP going to any of those 2 lists. You can try to remove it yourself from the lists, but if the spam continues it will continue to be added to the list, so you will need to find spam source and stop it


    No, I stand by my assertion that Spamhaus is a broken system, and creates more problems than it resolves. Anyone relying on it to "fix" their spam issues is missing important mail, as they have IPs blocked that don't relate to an actual spam issue.
    I agree it is extreme, but not broken. They just try to block emails by IP, and most ppl don't have static not-shared IP. Since spamhouse.org is feeded only by big email providers (you can't yourself forward spam to them and ask to blacklist its IP), I feel that these providers are "taking it too extreme" trying to block most IPs worldwide and leave just a few IPs free to send email, indeed trying to monopolize email services.

    What makes me sad, is that Yahoo blocked me even before receiving my full email when I used a local SMTP server, keeps trying to block me (your email is temporary defered) now that I pay for an email service, but keeps letting legitimate spam enter my inbox. Spam which even come from Brasil IPSs that use dynamic IP, like velox, virtua, brasiltelecom... :cry:


    In Enon case, solution would be simple: automatically whitelist emails used on registration.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikari View Post
    How is exactaly your link connection? DSL, cable, dial up? Are you on a NAT sharing the same IP with lots of ppl, or you have a dynamic IP?
    Cable, local LAN, only a few people, and no one here is spamming, voluntarily or as a result of any virus.
    As I understood, your IP is the same IP your ISP uses to serve SMTP and POP3...
    No. I'll try again. I connect to the internet using the ISP's IP. Using that connection, I send an email by connecting to my own domain's SMTP server. The message is sent from there, but the headers contain my connection IP. The report came back that my mail server had the IP from my ISP, completely incorrect, and I'd suggest broken.

    As I remember, we can remove any IP from any list just by giving them our email and relating it with that IP.
    No. This IP is *not related* to the sending of these messages in any way, other than I use it to connect to the internet. I have 20 domains that I actively send and recieve emails with, and some of those have several aliases. Does this mean I need to contact them with a long list because their system sees my connecting IP as "spammy"? It's broken in as much as they appear to have blocked all of RoadRunner's IP space. Surely we're not all spammers.
    If you share you IP with anybody else, being it dynamic or being under NAT, you are always under risk of anybody else being infected by virus or willingly send spam from it, and this IP going to any of those 2 lists.
    Not an issue, and wholly unrelated. I'm *not sending mail using that IP*, only connecting to the internet with it. I'ts been my IP for quite some time now, a static one
    In Enon case, solution would be simple: automatically whitelist emails used on registration.
    I'll assume this is meant for Enom and not me.
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  9. #9
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    No. I'll try again. I connect to the internet using the ISP's IP. Using that connection, I send an email by connecting to my own domain's SMTP server. The message is sent from there, but the headers contain my connection IP. The report came back that my mail server had the IP from my ISP, completely incorrect, and I'd suggest broken.
    So that's what I supposed first, their verification system i bad configured or bugged. Spamhous.org is based on SMTP server from where email originates, not client email. At least that's what I understood from them


    No. This IP is *not related* to the sending of these messages in any way, other than I use it to connect to the internet. I have 20 domains that I actively send and recieve emails with, and some of those have several aliases. Does this mean I need to contact them with a long list because their system sees my connecting IP as "spammy"? It's broken in as much as they appear to have blocked all of RoadRunner's IP space. Surely we're not all spammers.
    Spamhous.org does nothing with domains, just IPs. Maybe somebody, for mistake or a competitor, denunciated your ISP for spam and all its IPs were added to the list.

    Not an issue, and wholly unrelated. I'm *not sending mail using that IP*, only connecting to the internet with it. I'ts been my IP for quite some time now, a static one
    Yes this is some kind of error on Enon. While you try to contact them, you could try to test sending an email to any yahoo account. They also use Spamhous.org and has strick rules against legitimate emails

    You can also try to search on Spamhous.org lists for your IP, if it is there you can try to remove. I know your local IP shouldn't be a problem since you have a paid SMTP server, but still...

  10. #10
    Bear, I just went through this exact same problem. As you wrote, the ony way around this is to email them using webmail since that bypasses my local ISP.

    It's very annoying.

    However, it also occurs for several other companies I correspond with so it's definately not a new or unique issue. It is still very annoying, but unfortunately there's not much we can do. I actually chatted with eNom's VP of business about this issue, and they told me that they get thousands of spam emails a day and are trying to reduce the flood so they can work more effectively. Apparently, there is some serious productivity being lost as a result of the huge spam problem, so they're working with blacklists to filter stuff out, etc...

    Anyway, he did say they're aware some legit emails are being blocked, and they're working on it.
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  11. #11
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    Feb 2008
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    So this seems to be a valid option, not let spammers use dynamic IP in any kind...

    Or maybe forcing use to use their webmail apart of only their SMTP?

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