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  1. #1
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    Question Clueless? What comes on a Linux server?

    OK, maybe I'm stupid, but what exactly is supposed to come on a Linux server? I just got a box and mySQL is not installed. Helloooo? Am I clueless? I thought that a standard Redhat (7.2) install sets up a LAMP server and all I'd have to do is define name server stuff, install my web site content, build my databases, and then I'd have my sites on line. This is basically what I did with my first server.

    But now, I've got a new box and it seems that I'm dealing with new rules. Am I missing something? Can anyone shed some light on this?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Abu mon ami!

    I dont think mySQL can be assumed to be part of Linux. But I dont know about RH.

    But why do you worry? It's so easy to install mySQL or whatever else you want.

    Just use wget [if it's not installed there may be an RPM for that] and get all tarballs and install and you will be up and running in no time at all!

    Cheers
    Balaji
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  3. #3
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    Originally posted by MotleyFool
    I dont think mySQL can be assumed to be part of Linux. But I dont know about RH.
    Hey Balaji, good to see you again. Thanks for responding.

    Uhh, you're right, the subject should say RedHat, not Linux. Anyhow, I have a box that when I first got access to it it was all ready with LAMP and piles of other stuff. As far as I know, the standard RH install give you all that good stuff.

    Thanks for your help. Well, gotta go. Looks like I've got some work to do - installing mySQL.

    Take care,

    Abu Mami

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  5. #5
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    Out of interest Abu Mami, was FTP missed out as well?


    Lats...
    Lats...

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by Lats
    Out of interest Abu Mami, was FTP missed out as well?
    No, ftp was installed and works fine. However, I can't find mySQL. Also, I can't find POP3.

  7. #7
    Not sure about the most recent releases, but RedHat generally comes with PostgreSQL as an option on the install disk, and not MySQL. But the binary build of MySQL is a piece of cake to install. Just dowoad and decompress and do a couple of other things as instructed in the install readme and your done.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by freakysid
    Not sure about the most recent releases, but RedHat generally comes with PostgreSQL as an option on the install disk, and not MySQL. But the binary build of MySQL is a piece of cake to install. Just dowoad and decompress and do a couple of other things as instructed in the install readme and your done.
    Thanks. The company says it should be there. I had a friend who's a Linux guy help me and he says mySQL is not on my box. Weird.

  9. #9
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    Nothing is on it on a standard install. You have to select all the packages you want...... On my server they didnt install linuxconf

  10. #10
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    RH 7.3 do not come with linuxconf as a default package.
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  11. #11
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    Depending on the OS, most of the following additional software is pre-installed on all UNIX dedicated servers. Popular, commonly used OSes such as Red Hat Linux and FreeBSD will always include the following software pre-installed:

    Apache 1.3.x HTTP/1.1 Server
    Sendmail 8.x
    SSHd and ssh 1.2.x
    http-analyze 2.x
    Pico 2.x
    Perl 5.00x
    Procmail
    ecgs and gcc compilers
    gunzip utilities
    tcsh 6.x
    wu-FTPd FTP server 2.4.x
    Top 3.4
    Traceroute 3.5

  12. #12
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    If you have RH 7.2 or newer just type

    up2date program_name

    so if you wanted to install mysql type
    up2date mysql

    it's easy! (You may need to register w/ RH before running it the first time... also it'll download the programs off the net so you need a fast connection (not a problem)

    Owen
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Owen
    If you have RH 7.2 or newer just type

    up2date program_name

    so if you wanted to install mysql type
    up2date mysql

    it's easy! (You may need to register w/ RH before running it the first time... also it'll download the programs off the net so you need a fast connection (not a problem)

    Owen
    Thanks, good idea. But (and there's always a "but", right?) no go. It wouldn't accept my registration. I got a message that due to heavy traffic, they are not accepting new free registrations. Bummer!

  14. #14
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    OK, I used wget to get the latest mysql RPM from rpmfind.net. Then I ran RPM.

    Here's what I got...

    [[email protected] download]# rpm -ivh mysql-3.23.51-5.i386.rpm
    error: failed dependencies:
    perl-DBD-MySQL is needed by mysql-3.23.51-5
    libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3) is needed by mysql-3.23.51-5
    libgcc_s.so.1 is needed by mysql-3.23.51-5
    libstdc++.so.5 is needed by mysql-3.23.51-5
    [[email protected] download]#

    How could it be that all of these dependencies were missing? Seems to me that the install is missing some [vital] components. Am I correct? Or am I just an ignorant slob?

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by JKLIVIN
    Depending on the OS, most of the following additional software is pre-installed on all UNIX dedicated servers. Popular, commonly used OSes such as Red Hat Linux and FreeBSD will always include the following software pre-installed:

    Apache 1.3.x HTTP/1.1 Server
    Sendmail 8.x
    SSHd and ssh 1.2.x
    http-analyze 2.x
    Pico 2.x
    Perl 5.00x
    Procmail
    ecgs and gcc compilers
    gunzip utilities
    tcsh 6.x
    wu-FTPd FTP server 2.4.x
    Top 3.4
    Traceroute 3.5
    Err, a default install of FBSD doesn't include, apache, http-analyze, pico, procmail, tcsh, wu-ftp

  16. #16
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    Personally I recommend installing the bare OS with OepnSSH only and then installing all daemons from tarballs and command line.. it may be hard.. but it is how you learn and once you learn no GUI can match the power of your custom install. Dont use ports or RPM.. dont use webmin.

    It's like programming.. C is hard to learn and master. But once you have your own custom libraries in C, no GUI tool can match you.

    There is only one good road for managing a server ... it is long,ardous, narrow and full of bumps and potholes.. if you want to master it, dont use a vehicle or hitch a ride.. brace yourself and walk.

    Within a month you will be thanking yourself for that decision.

    Good luck with it.
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  17. #17
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    Originally posted by MotleyFool
    Personally I recommend installing the bare OS with OepnSSH only and then installing all daemons from tarballs and command line
    I agree. If you do not know how to install these programs yourself, then I can be sure you do not know how to configure them.

    Installing them is the easy bit.

  18. #18
    Originally posted by MotleyFool
    Personally I recommend installing the bare OS with OepnSSH only and then installing all daemons from tarballs and command line.. it may be hard.. but it is how you learn and once you learn no GUI can match the power of your custom install. Dont use ports or RPM.. dont use webmin.

    It's like programming.. C is hard to learn and master. But once you have your own custom libraries in C, no GUI tool can match you.

    There is only one good road for managing a server ... it is long,ardous, narrow and full of bumps and potholes.. if you want to master it, dont use a vehicle or hitch a ride.. brace yourself and walk.

    Within a month you will be thanking yourself for that decision.

    Good luck with it.
    Hear! Hear!

    I tell my kids and my students, "The high road is always the hard road. Take it!"

  19. #19
    Originally posted by hosticle


    I agree. If you do not know how to install these programs yourself, then I can be sure you do not know how to configure them.

    Installing them is the easy bit.
    Taking the hard road is always the best way to go, total immersion, as it were. However, the long distance runner doesn't start off at a full sprint. Rather, he paces himself.

    The same applies to learning new concepts. There's an enormous difference in knowing what to do and knowing what you're doing. As hoomans, most of us learn best by doing first and understanding later. Specifically, there's a lot to be said for learning to configure often-used programs before tackling the multitudinous ways of installing them in the Linux environment.

  20. #20
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    I don't mind learning, however, that doesn't mean I should build my own car in order to learn how to drive it. If I have car maintenance issues I can either figure out how to fix it myself, I can take it to the dealer or to an independant repair guy, or I can just sue the manufacturer (suing seems to be the most common way of solving problems today in the States).

    Even though I didn't order a managed server, I did expect to have a fully configured web server available for my use. However, what I received instead was a web server without mysql and IMAP. Sheesh. A web server without mysql. That's sort of like a day without orange juice.

    Well, the company did a reinstall for me and guess what? This time the server was missing mysql, IMAP, and bind. They obviously don't have a "standard" installation. Something is wrong here.

    OK, so enough pissing and moaning. I installed mysql, IMAP, and bind. I learned something. Wonderful. But I didn't want to learn this. I wanted to spend more time setting up (and learning!) mysql databases. I wanted to spend more time setting up (and learning!) defining domain names under BIND. I did not want to spend the last 3 or 4 days learning how to install programs that should have already been installed.

    Learning how to install and/or upgrade software packages is the reason I have a Redhat 7.2 box at home. When I feel I need to upgrade a package (PHP 4.06 to 4.2.2) on my box, I'll try it on my home machine first to make sure I know what I'm doing. Then when I'm satisfied everything's working on my home test box, I can repeat on my online server.

    You are all correct, it's worth learning the basics, and I plan on it. But not everybody needs to. And even those who need to, may not need to right away.

    Well, I'm going to have lunch now. Gotta go harvest the wheat, make the flour, and bake the bread. Tomorrow I'm going to learn how to make cornflakes for breakfast, after I milk the cows and pasteurize the milk.

  21. #21
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    Go Abu Go!
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Abu Mami
    I don't mind learning, however, that doesn't mean I should build my own car in order to learn how to drive it.
    that is what unix/linux is all about - go M$ if that is a problem for you.

  23. #23
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    Abu , sorry to hear you are having a tough time.

    But can any one take away from you the experience you have now?

    Sorry if I sounded unsympathetic or insensitive.

    Cheers
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by MotleyFool
    But can any one take away from you the experience you have now?
    Well, I agree. I learned a lot. It's just that wasn't exactly scheduled time that I used for learning. I was planning on spending some time with my family, sleeping, personal hygiene - ya' know, that sort of stuff.

    Sorry if I sounded unsympathetic or insensitive.
    Hey, no problem. That's what friends are for.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by hosticle
    that is what unix/linux is all about - go M$ if that is a problem for you.
    That can't be correct. You've even succeeded in making MS sound attractive Unix/Linux is NOT JUST about rolling your own. There are various levels, and each individual should choose the level appropriate. You can always choose to go "higher" or "lower" when the time is right.

    Hey, I'm an assembler programmer, but that doesn't mean I'm going to write everything on my own. I'll rely on libraries, high-level languages, and so on. I can always use my assembler knowledge when necessary, but I find I need it less and less as times goes by. Same thing with setting up a web server. The more "high level" stuff that gets developed, just frees us up to take care of other task. We end up getting more done. I might even get some sleep if it all works out.

    But don't get me wrong. I agree that it's best to have an understanding of the underlying technology. Then when something goes wrong, or you have to do something "fancy", you have half a chance to figure it out.

  26. #26
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    Originally posted by Website Rob
    Go Abu Go!
    The cornflakes were great. Dinner was a bit touch and go. You can't imagine how tough it is to herd cattle.

  27. #27
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    Originally posted by Abu Mami
    That can't be correct. You've even succeeded in making MS sound attractive Unix/Linux is NOT JUST about rolling your own. There are various levels, and each individual should choose the level appropriate. You can always choose to go "higher" or "lower" when the time is right.
    I have no idea what you are going on about.

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by hosticle
    I have no idea what you are going on about.
    Simple. What I mean is that your premise that Unix/Linux means doing things the hard way is flawed. While I agree with the desirability of knowing what's going on under the hood, there are times that I simply don't care. In fact, even in the Linux world, there is a drift towards user friendliness. There's no shame in using short cuts, as long as they're reliable, useful, and free :-)

  29. #29
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    Yeah thats fine, but you want a webserver - not a box to play doom on.

    Your initial complaint was your server didn't come with all the software it 'should' have - so your mention of using a shortcut is to get the datacentre staff to install the little programs you want installed?

    I dont know about these shortcuts. I never knew there were shortcuts for installing programs?

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by hosticle
    Yeah thats fine, but you want a webserver - not a box to play doom on.

    Your initial complaint was your server didn't come with all the software it 'should' have - so your mention of using a shortcut is to get the datacentre staff to install the little programs you want installed?

    I dont know about these shortcuts. I never knew there were shortcuts for installing programs?
    First, I don't play computer games. No time.

    My complaint about my server not coming with all the software it should has nothing to do with shortcuts. You're mixing apples and kumquats here. My server didn't come with mysql, imap, and bind. A webserver without mysql? imap? bind? Are these "little programs"? It could be argued that a web server without these packages is useless. I don't mind installing additional packages (gzip, phpa, etc), or upgrading packages - in fact I've already done much of this. But why should I have to install mysql, imap, and bind? These should come with the server.

    You don't know about shortcuts? How about RPM? I'm sure there are others. I just have to learn about them.

    As I've said previously, I don't mind learning, and I don't mind rolling my own. However I contend that there is such a thing as a "standard" web server. It can vary slightly, but not to install mysql?

  31. #31
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    I would guess that more to the point, if a person is told their Server will be setup in such a way and it is not, they have a right to find out why not. Would that be the situation here, Abu?

    I agree that we can usually figure how to do something that needs doing, but when it's not expected and one has to take time away from other (more important?) tasks, it can be frustrating.

    All in all though, it's the wonderful world of System Admin. Doing something that needs to be done at a time that is usually inconvienent anyway, will always take longer when one has to first figure out how to do it.

    But hey, I know that won't stop Abu -- he'll probably figure out the fastest correct way to do it anyway!
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  32. #32
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    Originally posted by Abu Mami
    First, I don't play computer games. No time.

    My complaint about my server not coming with all the software it should has nothing to do with shortcuts. You're mixing apples and kumquats here. My server didn't come with mysql, imap, and bind. A webserver without mysql? imap? bind? Are these "little programs"? It could be argued that a web server without these packages is useless. I don't mind installing additional packages (gzip, phpa, etc), or upgrading packages - in fact I've already done much of this. But why should I have to install mysql, imap, and bind? These should come with the server.

    You don't know about shortcuts? How about RPM? I'm sure there are others. I just have to learn about them.

    As I've said previously, I don't mind learning, and I don't mind rolling my own. However I contend that there is such a thing as a "standard" web server. It can vary slightly, but not to install mysql?
    Hire a system admin if you dont know how to do it - your provider wont bail you out if something breaks - so save yourself the heartache

    I dont see how you could accurately troubleshoot, configure and tweak programs if you dont even know how to install them.

  33. #33
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    Originally posted by Website Rob
    But hey, I know that won't stop Abu -- he'll probably figure out the fastest correct way to do it anyway!
    Yeh, I'll get to it s soon s I finish building my keybord. I've got ll the letters now except for the first letter of the lphbet.

  34. #34
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    Originally posted by hosticle
    Hire a system admin if you dont know how to do it - your provider wont bail you out if something breaks - so save yourself the heartache

    I dont see how you could accurately troubleshoot, configure and tweak programs if you dont even know how to install them.
    Well, ya' know hosticle (notice that I've not got the letter 'a' on my keyboard :-), we are actually pretty much in agreement here. I hope you don't consider our exchange here an argument, but rather an exchange of points of view. Anyway...

    We really are pretty much in agreement. After all, I realize that administering a server isn't necessarily a trivial task. Those who are really looking for the easy way out will get a managed server (and will pay for it), or as you said, they'll just pay a sysadmin to do the job for them.

    I don't expect my provider to bail me out. Maybe with simple stuff, but I didn't get a managed server, so I have no expectations.

    On the other hand, I don't have a budget for that so I'll try to roll my own. So far I've installed all of the "missing" components (mysql, imap, bind) and some other packages that I wanted for performance (gzip, phpa). In spite of the fact that I was able to install these packages, I certainly don't consider myself qualified for troubleshooting and tweaking. I can problem handle some of the simpler stuff, but the serious problems and the major tweaking will have to wait.

    Anyhow, I'm pretty happy with my server now. I just feel that it's unfortunate that I had to waste a day or so installing "standard" packages, when I could have spent more time on perfomance and tweaking issues.

    Hopefully the dns propagation should only need another day or so, and then I'll be able to see how well the server works.

    I enjoyed this discussion hosticle. See ya' around.

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