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Thread: Violations?

  1. #1
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    Violations?

    Im just curious, is it the intent of the admin and moderators around here to pass out violations to everyone like they are some pills for a mental patient?

    I keep getting violations for things that are VERY trivial, not to mention, even one moderator admitted a mistake. But when you contact the helpdesk for further information, you get almost no where.

    I feel that some folks around here are being unfair in the treatment towards community users. Someone asked for help with an issue, you tell them to contact you so you can help them with the problem. NOTHING, not one thing is mentioned in the post about buying or selling a service, but you get a violation for trying to assist someone with a problem they are having with a vendor you use.

    Would one get a violation for stating that they are having an issue with say, modernbill software and tell people to contact them so the other person can help them with the software?

    i would like to see some open discussion about this issue, without another moderator passing out more "pills" to us users. mods and admins are welcome to chime in, but its completely unfair with how some of us are being treated.

    James
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  2. #2
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    Well you just have to get used to it. It's in the rules (more or less).. Maybe some clarification would be ideal to make it more clear cut. But at the end of the day, it's what keeps WHT what it is now. You may have had the OP's best interest at heart, but some don't.

    There are times where I may not agree with something and will argue, other times I go back to my post and think $***, they were right..

    But nothing to get worked up about. Open the door and go outside. There is a whole world out there
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  3. #3
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    i understand there is another world out there.. trust me, i was out in it, saw three accidents, and 10 slide off's in my four hours of running errands.

    i understand that the rules are to keep the not so nice folks away, but than again, the forum is trying to tell the user they cant think for themselves.

    example, person a just wants to help. person b wants to be a jerk and make trouble.

    the OP asked for help. Can't the OP figure out whos out to really help him and whos just being a jerk?

    i would hope most people here are adults, and can make sound business decisions, without someone having to hold their hand on an online form.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbhosting View Post
    i would hope most people here are adults, and can make sound business decisions, without someone having to hold their hand on an online form.
    I hope that too, sadly it may not always feel like it Hence the rules are as such to keep things inline.
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  5. #5
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    the rules of these forums have been implemented to protect the integrity of the forums themselves so there is no correlation between advertising and genuine posting and contributing to the forum without using it for your own personal gain. Read up and the rules and follow them they are not that hard to live with.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbhosting View Post
    ...Someone asked for help with an issue, you tell them to contact you so you can help them with the problem. NOTHING, not one thing is mentioned in the post about buying or selling a service, but you get a violation for trying to assist someone with a problem they are having with a vendor you use...
    I don't know about other moderators, but I've always had a time tryin' ta get that durned crystal ball to work correctly.

    How would you propose that we distinguish between someone offering to help for free, with no alterer motives, and someone that wants a poster to contact them so they can sell them a service? Surely you're not suggesting that, as long as someone doesn't mention publicly that they would like compensation for a service, they're motives must be altruistic.

    Besides, "helping" via PM kinda defeats the purpose of a forum anywho. Wouldn't it be better to offer fixes publicly so that anyone with a similar problem kind find the answer?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue View Post
    I don't know about other moderators, but I've always had a time tryin' ta get that durned crystal ball to work correctly.

    How would you propose that we distinguish between someone offering to help for free, with no alterer motives, and someone that wants a poster to contact them so they can sell them a service? Surely you're not suggesting that, as long as someone doesn't mention publicly that they would like compensation for a service, they're motives must be altruistic.

    Besides, "helping" via PM kinda defeats the purpose of a forum anywho. Wouldn't it be better to offer fixes publicly so that anyone with a similar problem kind find the answer?
    I have been guilty of this a time or 2 , the reason I have done it is because I am not a technical person and tried to help the OP. But your right it does defeat the purpose , thanks for the reminder, not that you were directing that to me.
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  8. #8
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    even one moderator admitted a mistake.
    Admitting to making a mistake v. being nice enough to offer to clear up a proper rule enforcement based on the member's oversight and omission are are completely opposite things. If you wish to discuss the circumstances surrounding specific moderating actions, you may continue to do so through the help desk, but have the courtesy to get the story straight. Methinks the spectacles through which you view the moderation of this community are a bit tinted...
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  9. #9
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    We are all human and we do our best to help make WHT as good as possible. You say we hand out alerts/infractions like pills. We aren't getting paid nor do we make any sort of commission off of alerts. We make our calls based upon how we see a post acting for/against the rules. I wish I could say I could trust everyones intentions when offering their help, but unfortunately experience has taught me otherwise.

    I hope you continue to explore WHT and learn the ropes of the place. It actually becomes pretty dang addicting.
    Last edited by MikeWalczak; 02-23-2008 at 01:47 AM.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by pbhosting View Post
    ... stating that they are having an issue with say, modernbill software ...
    Peoples have issue with Modernbill?
    Really?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue View Post
    I don't know about other moderators, but I've always had a time tryin' ta get that durned crystal ball to work correctly.

    How would you propose that we distinguish between someone offering to help for free, with no alterer motives, and someone that wants a poster to contact them so they can sell them a service? Surely you're not suggesting that, as long as someone doesn't mention publicly that they would like compensation for a service, they're motives must be altruistic.

    Besides, "helping" via PM kinda defeats the purpose of a forum anywho. Wouldn't it be better to offer fixes publicly so that anyone with a similar problem kind find the answer?
    offering help via pm helps protect sensitive information like log in information, or someones real name and address.

    if you were having an issue with say..a ftp log in. would you go around telling people in an open forum all of your ftp information? that was the point of taking it off the main forum.

    i would propose that some kind of feedback system be intergrated.. something much like www.pbnation.com has started for its members who sell items. Or even like ebay. if someone was a jerk, then leave neg feedback and what the person tried to do. if they were a great help, leave info on that too. personally i dont think it would be hard to do, and it would be another way to keep people honest.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pm View Post
    Admitting to making a mistake v. being nice enough to offer to clear up a proper rule enforcement based on the member's oversight and omission are are completely opposite things. If you wish to discuss the circumstances surrounding specific moderating actions, you may continue to do so through the help desk, but have the courtesy to get the story straight. Methinks the spectacles through which you view the moderation of this community are a bit tinted...
    right now, my view of the leadership of this board is very tinted. it took several days for someone to issue a violation/infraction/whatever they are called for something. thats like getting smacked a week down the road for taking the cookie from the cookie jar.

    admitting to making a ....: how was that a members oversight? the member was afraid of posting on behalf of a second company for he didnt want another infraction. members fault? mmm no i dont think so.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbhosting View Post
    offering help via pm helps protect sensitive information like log in information, or someones real name and address.
    IF that were the case, I could see the point, but for the most part we're seeing "PM me, I can help", or "I know someone that offers that, PM me". The only way to keep it fair is to disallow it altogether. Sure, some of the members are offering simply to help (there have been numerous occasions where I'd do the same, if allowed), with no gain in mind, but it's not all of them. All the reports we receive regarding PM spam seem to bear that out.
    If you offer help within the public forum, and the request goes beyond what can be done in public (such as passwords), and the OP has initiated contact privately, that's one thing; to start off with "PM me so I can help privately" should never be neccesary.

    i would propose that some kind of feedback system be intergrated..
    We have that, in the report button and the help desk. Unfortunately, it doesn't always get used when someone makes an offer or solicits via PM, but the smarter members see the spam for what it is and tell us.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    IF that were the case, I could see the point, but for the most part we're seeing "PM me, I can help", or "I know someone that offers that, PM me". The only way to keep it fair is to disallow it altogether. Sure, some of the members are offering simply to help (there have been numerous occasions where I'd do the same, if allowed), with no gain in mind, but it's not all of them. All the reports we receive regarding PM spam seem to bear that out.
    If you offer help within the public forum, and the request goes beyond what can be done in public (such as passwords), and the OP has initiated contact privately, that's one thing; to start off with "PM me so I can help privately" should never be neccesary.


    We have that, in the report button and the help desk. Unfortunately, it doesn't always get used when someone makes an offer or solicits via PM, but the smarter members see the spam for what it is and tell us.

    with all due respect, you missed my point about the feedback system. look at ebay.

    i sell you product a. i ship it quickly and it arrives in great condition two days after you pay for it. would you call that great service? i would certainly say so, so you leave good feedback on that person, so that person can say to others, hey look, im an honest guy.

    i sell you product b. i dont ship it out for WEEKS. it arrives broken, i refuse to give you a refund and file an unpaid bidder notice against you on ebay and leave negative feedback. now in this case what would you do? leave negative feedback one would assume. same thing kinda applies here. if your honest, and help someone with a problem, great let them leave feedback that you can be proud of and post for all to see. if your a scum bag jerk who says ill help you, but its going to cost you 50$, when all you asked was, is the sky blue? simple question right? but this guy wants 50$. your gonna leave bad feedback about that person to warn others, hey this guy is trying to scam you or take you for money. just like ebay, that person would be forced to bare that negative mark on their public record.

    with this kind of system in place, i can see where it would nearly eliminate alot of the violations/infractions/etc (whatever you wanna call them). if you see a guy with tons of great feedback, then you can assume his post was honest. see someone with lots of bad feedback... mmm not so much, id raise suspect of his or her intentions.

    while the concept of the infraction system was great, judging from what was left, they are a bit harsh and extreme. on several other boards i belong to, infractions are never dished out like they are here, and are only reserved for the most severe rule infractions. here it seems, you sneeze in a post, and someones handing you one. i know it was answered in a trouble ticket, you arnt paid to hand out infractions, but judging the amount of trivial infractions ive gotten, id almost say your paid 10$ for each one i get!
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  15. #15
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    Just so things are clear there's infractions and alerts. Alerts carry 0 points against your account. I've noticed quite a few people mistake their alerts for actual infractions.

    The reason behind having the alert is to let a user know that they've done something wrong (and explain why their post/thread is removed or edited) without hurting their account.
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  16. #16
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    it still hurts the account tho. they remain there .you cant remove them, you cant make them go away. it shows up for all mods and admins to see.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbhosting View Post
    it still hurts the account tho. they remain there .you cant remove them, you cant make them go away. it shows up for all mods and admins to see.
    If it didn't how would we know this is the 10th time so-and-so has broken the "Contact me" rule?
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbhosting View Post
    with all due respect, you missed my point about the feedback system.
    No, I got your point. Unfortunately that sort of system has little chance of working here, IMHO. We already see numerous instances of "shilling", where someone (or his friends/coworkers) creates several accounts here to say how great "host-x" is. There are several notable cases where we've discovered literally dozens of such accounts.

    Besides, we seem to be talking about 2 different things here:
    Seller feedback and PM "helpers".
    How would you distinguish between the two, without being able to monitor the private dealings? How would you determine those that are soliciting services vs helping just to help?
    You can't.
    If the OP gets help and an offer at the same time, would they be likely to report the spammed offer? No, I don't think they would.

    if your a scum bag jerk who says ill help you, but its going to cost you 50$, when all you asked was, is the sky blue?
    Ironically, this could be answered in the public forum instead of PM.

    on several other boards i belong to, infractions are never dished out like they are here, and are only reserved for the most severe rule infractions.
    Are those boards as large and active as this one? Do you realize that there are two levels of "warnings" here, one is simply a reminder abouta broken rule, and the other a more stern reminder about the same sort of broken rule? All you've gotten so far is the former, no points, simply reminders. How is that severe?

    but judging the amount of trivial infractions ive gotten
    The key word is "trivial".
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbhosting View Post
    how was that a members oversight? the member was afraid of posting on behalf of a second company for he didnt want another infraction.
    That's because he didn't know the rules well enough to know he was allowed to post accurate information, and instead of bothering to ask the moderators first, made a post in a manner that did indeed break the rules. I don't think you did this on purpose or that you're a bad person. But I think this is a good opportunity to say "huh, I wasn't aware I could do that. Thanks for letting me know," and move on.

    It's your choice what you want to take away from this, but the intent and direction of this thread is seriously not productive.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pm View Post
    It's your choice what you want to take away from this, but the intent and direction of this thread is seriously not productive.
    Great points! The rest of this conversation can be continued via the Helpdesk.

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/helpdesk

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