Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1

    Is there really such a thing as 100% uptime guarantee?

    Or probably the correct question to ask is if there is really a
    hosting provider with no downtime at all forever?

    I was looking around and lately saw some hosting companies
    offering 100% uptime guarantee. I know my company that I got
    my reseller accounts do not offer the same (only 99.8% uptime
    guarantee) which, of course, I promise on to my clients.

    Is this 100% SLA really achievable/believable? Should I switch
    to the hosting companies offering this? I am afraid that if
    this is over promising, then I might as well stick to what I
    have for better client expectations.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,842
    100% uptime, measured properly over any significant period, is impossible. Even approaching it (eg. 99.99%) gets very expensive.

    But a 100% SLA is perfectly possible - it's simply a promise to compensate you when (not if) they fail to achieve 100%. The catch is usually that the amount of this compensation is very limited and it comes with various exclusions (scheduled maintenance, anything beyond our control, etc.) so check the terms carefully.

    Edit: to answer the question "should you switch" I'd say only if you trust the new host to deliver better uptime than your present one. The uptime "guarantees" have very little to do with this, but without knowing anything else about them I would tend to trust the one offering 99.8% more than the one offering 100%.
    Last edited by foobic; 02-22-2008 at 01:23 AM.
    Chris

    "Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them." - Laurence J. Peter

  3. #3
    Ahh ok I was wrong to say 100% SLA in my post. What I really
    meant there was 100% uptime on webhosting.

    Sorry.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    36
    I have seen a few hosting companys <<snipped>>. Who start to refund money if downtime takes place. Thats where the the %100 up time guarantee? But sadly most only start to credit your account after a few hours have passed.

    Personaly I think all should give you credit for any downtime.
    Last edited by bear; 02-22-2008 at 08:47 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    289
    As far as I know, really 100% uptime is impossible, though some can provide 99.9% or 99.99% uptime. What most 100% claimed is only 100% SLA.

    Also please pay attention, even some companies claimed they can provide 99.99%, but actually, they can't. So, pay more attention on user reviews.

  6. #6
    100% uptime is a myth. Nobody can provide 100% uptime. Servers need maintenance, services fail for various reasons. Power outages, natural disasters, ddos Attacks, software updates, etc. can and will cause some downtime.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the responses. So far what I am hearing is that 100% Uptime Guarantee is false advertising?

    I am really tempted to grab the offer coz my intention is to pass it on to my clientele. It would be a very good selling proposition for me.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    14
    Yeah I better look into companies which provide 99.8% uptime, not all 100% uptime.
    <<< Please see Forum Guidelines for signature setup. >>>

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Northern Europe.
    Posts
    2,571
    I've heard of some company offering 100% uptime... and I agree with all others that you can really *never* make such a promise - even though I have been lucky enough to have 100% uptime for several months on some web hosting accounts I have (according to host-tracker monitoring).

    I don't see any reason to be persuaded to switch hosts based just on a unrealistic "guarantee".
    Web Hosting Reviews based on real customer feedback
    77 Ways To More Traffic

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    553
    It's worth bearing in mind that 'guarantee' does not mean it will be 100%. By its very definition, it is only a promise from the host. It's not false advertising because they will indeed endeavour to provide 100%. However, because it is a guarantee the most they're obligated to do if they break the agreement is refund your money because the contract has been nullified. You can't go taking them to court because a server failed.

    Think of it as analagous to a guarantee you get at a furniture store, where you're promised your money back if it breaks. They're not saying it won't break -- they're saying that they'll recompensate you if it does. It is not within their physical ability to absolutely ensure it'll never break no matter what.

    There's certainly no harm in going with a company offering a 100% guarantee because it means they have no room to wiggle out of recompensating you. A company offering 99.9% uptime doesn't have to do a thing if your server goes down without breaching the 99.9% threshold. 99.9% is only about 70 minutes of downtime per month if you were wondering, but it can sure suck if it happens to be a particularly important time for your site when it the lights go off.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Your Site
    Posts
    73
    Ryan is right, a guarantee is a promise. I didn't know 99.9 uptime is 70 down a month, that's cool.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,842
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Williams View Post
    There's certainly no harm in going with a company offering a 100% guarantee because it means they have no room to wiggle out of recompensating you.
    On the contrary, there's often plenty of wriggle room - it's all in the small print. I've seen several 100% uptime "guarantees" that specify something like "0-60 minutes downtime - no credit".

    Wherever possible, check the host's past record for uptime (that's the uptime of their hosting servers, not their own site!). It's a much better indication of what you should expect than their marketing spiel.

    99.9% is about 44 minutes downtime in a month - a good standard to achieve provided it's maintained over the long term.
    Chris

    "Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them." - Laurence J. Peter

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    553
    Sorry, foobic is right. I got 70 minutes off the top of my head, which I thought was from when I previously calculated 99.9%. It must have been some other uptime guarantee I calculated.

    As long as it's spread out it's fine as it amounts to less than a couple of minutes per day. However, should it all come at once during an important time for whatever reason (eg: site just got posted on a fast-moving social media site) it can be a pain. With a 100% uptime that isn't covered by silly ways for the host to get out of it, it can provide some satisfaction knowing you'll get some money back for the downtime.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Williams View Post
    There's certainly no harm in going with a company offering a 100% guarantee because it means they have no room to wiggle out of recompensating you. A company offering 99.9% uptime doesn't have to do a thing if your server goes down without breaching the 99.9% threshold. 99.9% is only about 70 minutes of downtime per month if you were wondering, but it can sure suck if it happens to be a particularly important time for your site when it the lights go off.
    I think your on the right track with your thinking. I was just going to mention the fact that these days a lot of hosting companies do not charge a lot of money for hosting. Sometimes people get these deals on WHT and virtually pay nothing for there hosting or reseller accounts. We can't expect every host to be willing to compensate clients for poor service. Because most are now forced to more or less give away there service to get established.
    Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Directadmin Core
    Posts
    770
    If any host claims they're up 100% - there's an issue. Long term an average of 99.8 is just about right - with snapshots around 99.9. Keep in mind tho - some hosts I've seen lately, run their monitoring every 10 minutes - or worse, 30 minutes. That means they COULD be down for 9-29 minutes every half hour - but their monitoring won't "catch" it, and you'll have difficulty proving it.

    Servers need to be maintained, updated, rebooted. Linux kernels need to be updated, Windows needs to be updated, patches need to be applied to apache/php/mysql - and MOST, not all, of these require server reboots to be effective.

    No server I've seen can reboot fast enough to skip out on 2 or 5 minute monitoring.
    http://www.hostpc.com
    DirectAdmin servers for hosting, resellers and your dedicated needs.
    Hosting, Resellers, Dedicated Managed and Unmanaged servers
    Hosting since 11/98 - Specializing in DirectAdmin since 8/03

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Directadmin Core
    Posts
    770
    Quote Originally Posted by hsphereclub View Post
    I think your on the right track with your thinking. I was just going to mention the fact that these days a lot of hosting companies do not charge a lot of money for hosting. Sometimes people get these deals on WHT and virtually pay nothing for there hosting or reseller accounts. We can't expect every host to be willing to compensate clients for poor service. Because most are now forced to more or less give away there service to get established.
    Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
    Most hosts WONT compensate, they've got so much wiggle room in their "SLA" or "guarantee" that they never pay out a dime - very few will even offer anything more than a days credit. What good is that in the long run?
    http://www.hostpc.com
    DirectAdmin servers for hosting, resellers and your dedicated needs.
    Hosting, Resellers, Dedicated Managed and Unmanaged servers
    Hosting since 11/98 - Specializing in DirectAdmin since 8/03

  17. #17
    check out netkraft.com for uptime of hosts! by going over results, no host is 100% over a period of time.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    3,640
    Quote Originally Posted by hsphereclub View Post
    100% uptime is a myth. Nobody can provide 100% uptime. Servers need maintenance, services fail for various reasons. Power outages, natural disasters, ddos Attacks, software updates, etc. can and will cause some downtime.
    It's not impossible - just need a highly available system which can/does compensate for outages/maintenance, etc. H-Sphere (which I see you use) has taken a large step with this in the latest iterations of the hosting system.
    Simpli Networks, LLC :: http://www.simplinetworks.com :: Proudly 100% Owned.
    Providing Affordable Managed Cloud/VPS Servers & Server Management Solutions.
    We offer REAL 24x7x365 in-house support - proudly serving our customers since 2005!
    Want to learn more? Give us a call - +1 (844) 4SIMPLI or email sales[@]simplinetworks.com today!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    EU - east side
    Posts
    21,913
    there is really a hosting provider with no downtime at all forever?
    We can only answer that question the day we reach the end of time.

    Theoretically, any system has a chance, remote as it may be, of failure and the backup system(s) can theoretically fail at the very same time as the main system.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mripguru View Post
    It's not impossible - just need a highly available system which can/does compensate for outages/maintenance, etc. H-Sphere (which I see you use) has taken a large step with this in the latest iterations of the hosting system.
    Yes it is theoretically not impossible to achieve. A person is more likely to see quality uptime with a clustered solution.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mabangis View Post
    Or probably the correct question to ask is if there is really a
    hosting provider with no downtime at all forever?

    I was looking around and lately saw some hosting companies
    offering 100% uptime guarantee. I know my company that I got
    my reseller accounts do not offer the same (only 99.8% uptime
    guarantee) which, of course, I promise on to my clients.

    Is this 100% SLA really achievable/believable? Should I switch
    to the hosting companies offering this? I am afraid that if
    this is over promising, then I might as well stick to what I
    have for better client expectations.

    What do you guys think?

    In my experience as both customer and provider - it's a myth...

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,842
    Practically, it's not even meaningful to talk about 100% uptime. That's like saying "The service was never down. Not once. Not for a second. Not even for a microsecond.". No-one can honestly claim that. You need to set a limit (99.9%, 99.99% or whatever) just in order to know what sort of monitoring is required to verify the uptime.

    eg. a serious provider might claim 99.99%+ (less than 4.4 minutes per month). To prove that you'd better be monitoring at 1 minute intervals or better, or how would you know you didn't miss the downtime?

    Go a step further and claim 5 9s (99.999% = 26 seconds per month) and you need to monitor at 5 second intervals or less.

    Anyone want to calculate the monitoring interval required to prove 100%?
    Chris

    "Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them." - Laurence J. Peter

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    6,984
    100% uptime guarantee and SLA is different from 100% uptime facility setup. To setup a 100% uptime server will be exponentially expensive. But 100% uptime SLA simply means if they fall below it, they give you a compensation. Much depends on how much is the compensation. It can be that the host estimated that

    1. Most clients will not claim
    2. Most of the time the servers do not fail
    3. Compensation is low enough for it to absorb while having positive publicity regarding their 100% guarantee

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    27
    99.9% uptime really is a way of getting customers. It also means that you usually never go down most of the time. For example, you might go down once out of 6 months. It really means you don't go down that often. But of course sometimes every webhosting company goes down at one point of time.
    BIND Hosting Solutions
    --You'll start believing in dependable, reliable hosting.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    292
    100% in my opinion is impossible. 99.9% or 99.99% is possible. A company must go down at one point.
    HighLayer - Canadian Web Hosting, Reseller Hosting & Dedicated Servers
    Latest cPanel/WHM - 99.9% Uptime Guarantee - 30 Day Money Back Guarantee - 24/7 Support
    Visit www.highlayer.com or Call 1-888-84-LAYER

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Hayward, CA
    Posts
    16
    100% is impossible because, well, sh*t happens.

    A hosting firm might do everything right, including multiple power sources with redundant backup power sources (including adequate fuel), fire-suppression, redundant locations, multiple backbone providers, etc.

    But at some point, the universe will conspire to disable the service for a minute or more. A backhoe may dig up the parking lot, severing the wires underground (and if there are redundant lines coming in on both sides of the building, there can actually be two backhoes on the same day!). A disgruntled litigator might come in with a seizure order and confiscate the switches or routers. The primary backbone provider might go out of business without warning, and the secondary backbone may be unexpectedly overloaded as a result.

    Several years ago, I had a colocated server at a nice facility (hurricane electric) in the San Francisco Bay Area. Compaq promised prompt service, and committed that it would have spare parts on hand, ready for delivery and installation within 24 hours. But when my server's power supply failed, they informed me that it was one of MANY to fail that week, and they ran out of spare power supplies -- not just within the bay area but in the USA (they said). They claimed that it might be several days, perhaps even a week or two, before I could get a replacement. My ONLY option was to buy an even more expensive service contract to miraculously gain access to a "special reserve supply" of power supplies; since I'd already been offline for almost a full 24 hours by then, I surrendered and paid the extortion. Within 4 hours after I paid for that service contract, my server was up and running again.

    Note that your ISP, colocation facility, or backbone provider may CLAIM that they've provided 100% uptime, but they might not be "counting" certain failures as outages. When I had a server colocated at Above.net in 1999, my server was inaccessible for hours at a time, yet Above.net claimed that there were no outages. It turned out that my server shared a pipeline with a bunch of misconfigured Linux servers that were being used as "zombies" to launch a denial-of-service attack; those servers were using up the available bandwidth, causing 99%-plus packet loss. Above.net insisted that this was not a service failure; I pulled the server out of their facility that same week. Keep in mind that some other obstacle (such as a denial-of-service attack on your DNS provider or your ad network) might actually prevent your visitors from reaching your site. Your customers may also "perceive an outage" when their own ISP or their ISP's backbone provider experiences a failure. (Comcast frequently claims that service is working fine, when in fact half of its customers in the Bay Area are unable to connect to Google, Yahoo, or Amazon.)

    100% uptime is impossible. As others said, you can get close, possibly even 99.99% in a particular year, and there are lots of fail-over strategies to respond to various outages -- but 100% uptime is simply impossible in our universe.
    Last edited by markwelch; 02-22-2008 at 08:34 PM.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Williams View Post
    It's worth bearing in mind that 'guarantee' does not mean it will be 100%. By its very definition, it is only a promise from the host. It's not false advertising because they will indeed endeavour to provide 100%. However, because it is a guarantee the most they're obligated to do if they break the agreement is refund your money because the contract has been nullified. You can't go taking them to court because a server failed.
    Very well said Ryan. I can only agree with you in that line od thinking. How silly am I to forget about that important aspect of a guarantee. Now that shed light to my dark thoughts...

    Thanks!

  28. #28
    Ok this is getting to be an interesting discussion. I thank you all for your thoughts and comments. I think that for a while, before realizing that it was a "myth" or "impossible feat" (100% uptime) as most of you said on web hosting, I am almost convinced to change or move to another host.

    Now I feel that my decision is to stay with my current provider. It is very important for me to set certain realizable expectations to my clients who have been with me for years and not fail them by over promising. I think my current provider also do the same.

    I guess the same principle I learned from the corporate world also applies in this webhosting business - Promise less, Deliver more!

    Thanks guys!

  29. #29
    I agree that 100% uptime is not possible (long term). However, like many people said, a 100% SLA exists even if companies exclude a few common issues.

  30. #30
    100% uptime of what? Server? DC network connection? T1 connection? There are so many failures may happen that no one should ever promise 100% uptime, unless he protected himself with a well-written SLA...
    From my point of view, the most important is to keep customers data safe. You won't lost business if your server was down for a day, but you definitely will, if you lost customers data during downtime.

  31. It is possible up to the network level to guarantee 100% uptime, but it will cost you a lot.

    I have worked with servers before that have been tested to 99.999% uptime. These servers have multiple gigabit ethernet ports that allows connection to up to 3 different networks at the same time.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by iliya428 View Post
    100% uptime of what? Server? DC network connection? T1 connection? There are so many failures may happen that no one should ever promise 100% uptime, unless he protected himself with a well-written SLA...
    From my point of view, the most important is to keep customers data safe. You won't lost business if your server was down for a day, but you definitely will, if you lost customers data during downtime.
    I am looking on any downtime related to webhosting in a holistic perspective. Any problems on any single point of failure is downtime overall to me.

    And I agree with you that customers will surely get lost if you lose their data. That's a primary concern during downtime both the host and the customer.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •