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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by djorgensen View Post
    Its as unethical as you can get. You are trying to munipulate a website rankings by points lots of other domains to it! I bet those other domains arent going to have uniquie quality content on them
    He might get a good results for one day, then it will drop to the bottom forever.

  2. #27
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    Didnt we already tell him this was going to happen at the beginning of the post? And now it has, hmm .....

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaffery View Post
    301 is neither practical.
    Instead of getting LINKS from various different domains and then doing 301 to main domain .. its better to develop back link for main domain only.
    That is a load of horse-crap.

    From an SEO point of view, and knowing how the search engines handle links, getting links to the domains, then 301'ing them, your main site actually gets credit for the links that were 301'd to the main domain, (even if they are from the same places).

    Plain and simple, you get a far better link popularity in the end doing it that way.

    You still develop the links to your main website to build brand recognition, but you stand to pick up all of the extra links AS WELL as any rankings the sites that were 301'd had developed on their own, all pointing to your main site.
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by FourTwenty View Post
    is there something i need to do, other than wait it out, after i am done making them all 301 to the domain?
    After you make sure that the rest of the main website is sparkling clean and not spammy in the least (this is VERY important, so take the time to go thru the whole site), file a reinclusion request with google.

    Create a webmaster tools account and sign in: https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools

    Add your main site to your Google Webmaster Tools account:
    http://www.google.com/support/webmas...y?answer=34592

    Then verifying your website: http://www.google.com/support/webmas...y?answer=35179

    Then on the Dashboard, under Tools in the list on the right, click Request reconsideration and follow the steps.
    Last edited by nuclei; 07-13-2008 at 03:41 PM.
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Arm View Post
    He might get a good results for one day, then it will drop to the bottom forever.
    Bull...

    Which part of my pointing out that Matt Cutts, the head of googles spam division, says that 301's are the "proper" way to redirect other domains to the primary one did you miss exactly?
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  6. #31
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    I think you missed this page from your reading

    http://www.google.com/support/webmas...y?answer=66355


    Quote Originally Posted by nuclei View Post
    Bull...

    Which part of my pointing out that Matt Cutts, the head of googles spam division, says that 301's are the "proper" way to redirect other domains to the primary one did you miss exactly?

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Arm View Post
    I think you missed this page from your reading

    http://www.google.com/support/webmas...y?answer=66355

    Ummm no, I think you have absolutely no clue as to what either "cloaking" or javascript redirects are... so once again, Bull!

    The page you pasted deals with cloaking and some sneaky JS redirects which can be considered a minor form of cloaking.

    A 301 is not a javascript redirect that is meant to lure people in on one keyword which is displayed to search engine spiders, which the redirect directs real users elsewhere, or even remotely considered cloaking in any fashion.

    A 301 tells the search engines where to go BEFORE any text that could be construed as "spider bait", therefore is impossible to use as a cloaking method.
    Last edited by nuclei; 07-13-2008 at 05:28 PM.
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  8. #33
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    Funny that you overlooked the Doorway pages paragraphs on the same page.
    Do you even have a portfolio?

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Arm View Post
    Funny that you overlooked the Doorway pages paragraphs on the same page.
    Do you even have a portfolio?

    I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

    Doorway page definition from the page you posted:

    "Doorway pages are typically large sets of poor-quality pages where each page is optimized for a specific keyword or phrase. In many cases, doorway pages are written to rank for a particular phrase and then funnel users to a single destination"

    Now, what exactly does a 301 "SERVER SIDE" redirect have to do with a static page (Doorway Page) that contains text, then redirects, or "funnels" users to another page, generally using sneaky javascript redirects after 0 seconds?

    The simple answer, none.

    A 301 redirect is a "server side" redirect. This means that it is performed before ANY pages are displayed. Not doorway pages, real pages, or any other type of pages get displayed. It simply redirects to the new page. There is no cloaking, no funneling from a doorway page, no JS redirection after a doorway page is displayed for the engines benefit.

    A wise man once said, it is far better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.
    Last edited by nuclei; 07-13-2008 at 07:37 PM.
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  10. #35
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    William,
    we are not getting anywhere with this, you are stucked to the 301 word.
    I'll quote you from before:
    The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is to get as many links to each domain, then when they all start showing up in the engines, 301 all but the main one TO the main one. This will pass the link juice and any ranking assistance from the links with keywords as anchors to the main site.
    Now the OP doesn't plan to build a site for each domain as he says.
    So what linkjuice will he pass on from a domain that does not have content,
    which even if he did that it will take him one year to get to PR 2 with some links
    and them maybe link to the main site.
    So what's the value of doing what you mention in the quoted text?

  11. #36
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    Feb 2008
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    thanks for all of your help here william, you are finally breaking through to me here... it's taken me years to get to the seo part of my business, i wish i investigated this further, long ago for sure...

    i own all of these domains, not to try to bring more traffic and play dirty net games to beat the business and be shady, i own them all to own all of the names associated with my website...

    for example, if you own hotdogs.com, wouldn't you also want to own hot-dogs.com, hotdog.com, hot-dog.com, hottdogs.com, franks.com, weiners.com, hotdawgs.com, hot-dawgs.com, etc.?

    so i have these hundred or so domains that are all name related to my one website with tons of content... the website has been in business for 15 years... it is also a pay website...

    what if i put up a small tour on each of those domains, or even blogs, promoting the one domain? would a 5 page tour or a blog be considered a site with content? it might generate more revenue than going the 301 route.

    what do you think?

  12. #37
    FourTwenty: you are very welcome.

    Steve_Arm:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Arm View Post
    William,
    we are not getting anywhere with this, you are stucked to the 301 word.
    Yes, because what I told him was to utilize a 301 and your post after that stated simply: "He might get a good results for one day, then it will drop to the bottom forever.", which quite simply, is a load of bull$%^#%$#.

    As to the contents of the quoted post above, it is assumed each domain utilizes keywords in the url structure, as the OP just confirmed for me above this post. A couple links to each of those, will have that url in them.....

    As to PR, who gives a damn about PR anymore except newbies and link sellers?? There are far better ways to gauge a links worthiness than PR will ever be or ever actually was. The pretty green bar is nothing more than slight of hand. Your watching it instead of seeing where the magic is happening or how and why.

    What value will it have to him? A lot in actuality.

    stucked? Nah, I am not even going to go into that rant.
    Last edited by nuclei; 07-13-2008 at 08:21 PM. Reason: typo
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by FourTwenty View Post
    what if i put up a small tour on each of those domains, or even blogs, promoting the one domain? would a 5 page tour or a blog be considered a site with content? it might generate more revenue than going the 301 route.

    what do you think?
    That would benefit you in 2 ways, #1 to be able to target the sites to various subniches of your main sites niche, and #2. to serve as real and valid links to the main domain which can utilize targeted anchor text properly. The thing is to make them all "real" websites as far as google is concerned, using just basic tours would probably classify them as just "affiliate" type sites, which while not being bad, will not get as much consideration by the engines. I would think blogs woul be the better choice, but then you have one hell of a chore in creating them with enough content, (at least 5 pages to start) and keeping them updated frequently with fresh and NOT duplicated elsewhere, content.
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Arm View Post
    Funny that you overlooked the Doorway pages paragraphs on the same page.
    Do you even have a portfolio?
    Just wanted to throw this in here.. 301ing is NOT a doorway page. I know nuclei already clarified but I just wanted to also throw this in. The "literal" definition of a doorway page is this:

    site.com/keyword-one
    site.com/keyword-two
    site.com/keyword-three

    All of which have spam text (Markov commonly) and then they 301 to another domain, so that the other domain gets the "trustrank" (yes, trustrank - NOT pagerank) score of the previous pages. This way the new domain could possibly rank for these terms, or at least get a + score for those terms.

    Just wanted to throw that in there, I have personal experience with testing this theory to see if it works - by the way - it does.
    Automated Tendencies - Brand Management Agency from Baltimore, Maryland.
    Reputation Management • Search Engine Optimization • Pay Per Click • Email Marketing

  15. #40
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    thanks guys!

    i think my best route for now is to do a 301 on them all and then ask yahoo and google to reconsider the domains... then when i have the time, build blogs for each and every one of them...

    you guys rule, thank you so very much for your valuable time and support, breaking this all down for me in a language i can easily understand!

    i will be back for my next dilemma soon for sure...

    hope you all have a great day!

  16. #41
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    now for the last question...

    how do i do a 301?

    all of my domains are listed on my server in directories.,
    is this just a file i upload to each directory?

  17. #42
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    okay, now i am confused again...
    i just asked my host to do 301 server side on all of those domains and this is what he tells me... he is french, by the way, so please bear with the poor english... thank you.



    They have time when you need a redirect and they should be considered as exception as it penalize you.


    Here is a list of post that reflect what I meant:

    sinohosting View Beta Profile
    Web Hosting Guru Join Date: Oct 2007
    Location: Shanghai, China
    Posts: 283

    You can't get high SERPS or organic ranking for a domain that does not have a content. On the other hand, directing that many domains to your site (doorway sites) will lead to the main site being penalized by Google.
    Keep it simple and work on building links and optimizing your main site.


    BeWitched View Beta Profile
    Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008
    Posts: 11

    it sounds like you have ONE real website and 99 DOORWAY pages.

    Google msn and yahoo ALL HATE Doorway pages.

    Take some good advice, just concentrate on THAT ONE, drop the other 99. don't waste your time and you WILL get banned. When your banned from adsense, don't come crying on here, i've seen it happen SEVERAL times.


    This user is wrong
    nuclei View Beta Profile
    WHT Addict Join Date: Jan 2002
    Posts: 147

    Quote:Originally Posted by MACscr
    Not really, everyone is giving good advice and trying to steer the op awavy from what he wants to do because its unethical and also will get him blacklisted.

    Pointing 99 of the domains to the main one via a proper 301 is not in the least unethical, and it can help with rankings as well. So yes, going off on tangents that have nothing to do with search optimization is not helping, and only makes this area dedicated to SEO look bad.

    This user confirm my point.
    djorgensen View Beta Profile
    Web Hosting Master Join Date: Jun 2006
    Posts: 749

    Quote:Originally Posted by nuclei
    Pointing 99 of the domains to the main one via a proper 301 is not in the least unethical, and it can help with rankings as well. So yes, going off on tangents that have nothing to do with search optimization is not helping, and only makes this area dedicated to SEO look bad.

    Its as unethical as you can get. You are trying to munipulate a website rankings by points lots of other domains to it! I bet those other domains arent going to have uniquie quality content on them


    Jaffery View Beta Profile
    Junior Guru Wannabe Join Date: Sep 2004
    Posts: 44

    301 is neither practical.
    Instead of getting LINKS from various different domains and then doing 301 to main domain .. its better to develop back link for main domain only. It will help in long term as well as will help you to establish your "brandname" or better recognisation.

    So.. cut the crap ie. those 99 domains..
    Concentrate on main domain, create content for it, create back link for it only. Also make sure that you do not create duplicate content and your site is done..

    BTW, if your site is already blacklisted as you say (but I think its only not properly ranked) then start with fresh good domain and work upon it instead.

    Good Luck !


    I think nuclei the user you refer to be your SEO guru is just someone playing big head. Like I said, they have many way of doing thing in SEO, they have bad practice and good practice. Lot of people will go in the grey zone, grey zone is dangerous and can get your domain blacklist and it’s hard to get unlist. Particulary for site that host pornography as it is the content that most search engine don’t want to rank. Google as a reputation to server educational data. IF you want to be in the good side for google search engine you should adopt a white hat attitude and go the white side all the way.

    Here is a final quote about this topic : Source : http://www.google.com/support/webmas...y?answer=66355

    Read about the doorway.

    Like said, they have time when you need a 301 redirection and they should be exception not a way to rank higher. You will maybe rank higher for a short time, but in the long run it’s not going to help you. They way I told you is the best way to proceed. What a good SEO could give you more, is a social network of high ranking page on which he cans create a link to your website to rank it higher, he cans create better content (by calculating the right ratio of a repetition of a keyword), he cans define which keyword is the best value to focus on. Each keyword has a value on internet, you can calculate it and create graphic and choose the best keyword to use for the best efficiency of time spent and easy way to rank #1 in search engine.

    If you really want something professional that might really help you, try to contact cpxinteractive.com they can provide you with free advice and audit. (of course the free advice are in fact a sales pitch with very valuable information and the quote they are giving you include a lot of information about the status of your keyword and website in general. They will provide you with thing you might change to higher your chance to rank higher. ) Even if it is a quote and a quote is free, the quote contain very valuable information that you can use.

    Otherwise, I will not come back on this topic  if you feel your way is the best way, go ahead, it’s your time and money spending.

  18. #43
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    Feb 2008
    Posts
    49
    i replied to my host with this

    You are reading the wrong input I am basing my decision on.

    Read this input from nuclei

    Umm, according to Googles Matt Cutts, the head of their spam division, a 301 redirect is the PROPER way to point other domains to your main website. So, ummm NO, it is not unethical in the least.

    As for your second comment, of bloody course those other domains will not have content on them, they are redirected to the main website.......

    From an SEO point of view, and knowing how the search engines handle links, getting links to the domains, then 301'ing them, your main site actually gets credit for the links that were 301'd to the main domain, (even if they are from the same places).

    Plain and simple, you get a far better link popularity in the end doing it that way.

    You still develop the links to your main website to build brand recognition, but you stand to pick up all of the extra links AS WELL as any rankings the sites that were 301'd had developed on their own, all pointing to your main site.

    After you make sure that the rest of the main website is sparkling clean and not spammy in the least (this is VERY important, so take the time to go thru the whole site), file a reinclusion request with google.

    Create a webmaster tools account and sign in: https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools

    Add your main site to your Google Webmaster Tools account:
    http://www.google.com/support/webmas...y?answer=34592

    Then verifying your website: http://www.google.com/support/webmas...y?answer=35179

    Then on the Dashboard, under Tools in the list on the right, click Request reconsideration and follow the steps.

    A 301 is not a javascript redirect that is meant to lure people in on one keyword which is displayed to search engine spiders, which the redirect directs real users elsewhere, or even remotely considered cloaking in any fashion.

    A 301 tells the search engines where to go BEFORE any text that could be construed as "spider bait", therefore is impossible to use as a cloaking method.

    Doorway page definition from the page you posted:

    "Doorway pages are typically large sets of poor-quality pages where each page is optimized for a specific keyword or phrase. In many cases, doorway pages are written to rank for a particular phrase and then funnel users to a single destination"

    Now, what exactly does a 301 "SERVER SIDE" redirect have to do with a static page (Doorway Page) that contains text, then redirects, or "funnels" users to another page, generally using sneaky javascript redirects after 0 seconds?

    The simple answer, none.

    A 301 redirect is a "server side" redirect. This means that it is performed before ANY pages are displayed. Not doorway pages, real pages, or any other type of pages get displayed. It simply redirects to the new page. There is no cloaking, no funneling from a doorway page, no JS redirection after a doorway page is displayed for the engines benefit.




    Then another member named SpeedEXEC goes on to confirm this

    Just wanted to throw this in here.. 301ing is NOT a doorway page. I know nuclei already clarified but I just wanted to also throw this in. The "literal" definition of a doorway page is this:

    site.com/keyword-one
    site.com/keyword-two
    site.com/keyword-three

    All of which have spam text (Markov commonly) and then they 301 to another domain, so that the other domain gets the "trustrank" (yes, trustrank - NOT pagerank) score of the previous pages. This way the new domain could possibly rank for these terms, or at least get a + score for those terms.

    Just wanted to throw that in there, I have personal experience with testing this theory to see if it works - by the way - it does.

  19. #44
    French and ignorant. Your host is quoting entries in THIS thread which he just pulled up from a web search on 301's. How silly can you get.... Trying to explain something to you using your own thread where you already got the answers you needed. He, like someone else here, seems to equate 301 redirects with doorway pages... after that was already explained by several of us here...

    here is a rather exacting article on 301's and their usage.

    http://www.isitebuild.com/301-redirect.htm

    Upon thinking about it, he is probably trying to find some way of not having to drop the few lines of code in place on 99 domains. Or he is just one of these newbie webhosts that pop up daily.

    Care to share the hosting company?
    Last edited by nuclei; 07-22-2008 at 11:24 PM.
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  20. #45
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    let's give him time to reply first, maybe he didn't read this entire thread, i sent him a link to it in the beginning, maybe he only read half of the posts and was also mistaken by the difference between "doorway pages" and "server side 301"... i've been doing this since the birth of the internet 15 years ago and i still learn something new every day, we all do... i don't want any fights, i just want the best option i have...

    i will let you know what he says and i will forward your last reply as well... thanks william!

  21. #46
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    Feb 2008
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    by the way, i don't mind doing the leg work on the domains myself, i just need help with the first one, then i can rock out the rest of them myself, so i don't think he was passing the buck on a tedious task... again, probably just a misunderstanding between the doorway pages and server side 301... hopefully...

  22. #47
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    Feb 2008
    Posts
    49
    okay, he has agreed to help me with the server side 301's...
    he still believes it is working in the "grey area", but his only solution is to pay some high priced company to put me in some program and charge me a bunch of money for it... so i am going this route and plan to build blogs for them when i find some free time to plug away at them... one by one... you are more than welcome to join in and help me if you wish...lol

    i am not doing anything unethical, i just bought the domains so my competition couldn't buy them, really that's all... and what are you supposed to do with them, except for link them to your main site, right?

    thanks for breaking this all down for me bro, it is most HIGHly appreciated!

  23. #48
    never a problem.
    William Cross
    Don Halbert *play site*
    william@seofox.com

  24. #49
    Whether he believes it is a grey area or not is completely irrelevant.. You are paying him to do a job, he should do it.. And this a prime example of why you should host where you have more control of your server..

    Oh yeah, I 301 stuff all the time and never have any problems.. It's the right way to move things around.. I just renamed a company and switched URLs and just 301d the old to the new.. No issues..
    Steve
    Metal Monster Marketing : Internet Marketing

  25. #50
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Green World
    Posts
    98
    Try to create S.E.O. Web like web directory and attempt to build this web to high rank in search engine.


    and build links into any website network that you builded.


    I think many webs will high rank too.


    Goodluck!



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