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  1. #1
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    Virtuozzo vs HyperVM

    Can someone point me to the a good thread where these two options are compared? Or can we start on here?

    I am thinking about it from a VPS host perspective.

    Thanks in advance.

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  2. #2
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    HyperVM is extremely affordable compared to VZ and recently they have had top notch support.
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  3. #3
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    The main benefit of HyperVM is that it supports multiple Virtualisation Technologies, OpenVirtuozzo, Xen and soon Linux Vserver I believe - Which can all be managed through 1 main control panel.

    On the other hand Virtuozzo Power Panel is only for the Virtuozzo Platform, so you have less flexability.

    It really comes down to what Virtualisation you wan't to offer your customers. Virtuozzo/VZPP is a fully commercial solution (HyperVM uses open source Xen/OpenVZ) so chances are that better support is available. Having said that Lxlabs go beyond what they need to in terms of support for HyperVM.

  4. #4
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    HyperVM is not bad thing to use if your on a budget but I personally would choose Virtuozzo.

  5. #5
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    HypereVM vs Virtuzzo.

    HyperVM supports a wide array of platforms, but it still lacks. It's looks and feel are about that of a fourth grade art project.

    Virtuozzo looks much more professional.

    I've never used Virtuozzo as an administrator though, so can't comment on their features.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    HypereVM vs Virtuzzo.

    HyperVM supports a wide array of platforms, but it still lacks. It's looks and feel are about that of a fourth grade art project.

    Virtuozzo looks much more professional.

    I've never used Virtuozzo as an administrator though, so can't comment on their features.

    What hypervm lacks? please support your statement with facts, it can do anything virtuozzo can do.

    I have same feelings for virtuozzo, becasuse design is a matter of personal choice, hypervm is highly advance and easy to use interface and virtuozzo is far inferior.

  7. #7
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    From my experience, I've found that most new start-up VPS companies nowadays use HyperVM, because of the low capital required to get up and running. However, I have to admit that I've noticed those same companies tend to go belly up pretty quick. I'm not blaming HyperVM for it at all, but I think HyperVM gives would-be-providers that mentality of "overloading/overselling" which leads to their inevitable demise. It kind of comes with the territory when your paying nickles and dimes versus dollars for licensing.

    On the other hand, if you look at the VPS market in the last couple of years, those that tend to offer commercial based VPS products such as VZ or even those that take technologies such as Xen and customize them in-house tend to have a much sounder business plan and a higher chance of success.

    So, if your serious about getting into this niche market of web hosting, I would suggest you sit down and come up with a good plan and capital to either buy a good commercial product such as VZ or spend the time and money to fully customize something like Xen or HyperVM/OpenVZ. That's what would truly separate you from the high schooler that just rents a server at TP running HyperVM selling VE's for $5/m and the business man that knows what he's getting into and expects his business to pay the bills.

    All of the HyperVM fans, no need to flame this is only my personal opinion, everyone is entitled to one. Thanks.

  8. #8
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    Sean,

    You bring up a few very good arguments. I must say, HyperVM is like wrestling a gator when it comes to customization, but all and all it is not a bad panel, even if it doesn't come down to nickels and dimes.

    By all means, Virtuozzo is gorgeous. It also prohibits the blatant overselling of resources as Sean also stated, to prevent overselling. Now, that can be a good thing, but it can also be a bad thing as Virtuozzo prices can go as far as $6 per VPS a month.

    With HyperVM, you get that same functionality, for $.50 /VPS per month, with the potential for resource expenditure. It's not the most gorgeous thing in the world as of Version 2.0, but the support team is great, it has wonderful features, and in 3.0 - the GUI will be completely redone. I would definitely recommend it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by r00ter View Post
    It also prohibits the blatant overselling of resources as Sean also stated, to prevent overselling.
    Well, I didn't really say that Virtuozzo prevents you as a provider from overselling. It in fact gives you more capability to do so than for example HyperVM on Xen. What I meant was that the low cost required to start offering VPS services [with HyperVM] tends to attract those that really don't know what their doing. It should also be made clear that there are plenty of successful VPS companies that offer HyperVM based services, but again it seems to me that they have spent the time, effort and capital into making their HyperVM-based product stand out amongst the crowd.

    Also, I would like to point out that there is a difference, when it comes to the VPS market, between overselling and overloading. Overselling can work to a certain degree, but it's when you start crossing that fine line into overloading where it becomes a problem. Some providers tend to manage their servers very well and offer a pleasant experience, while others who again are inexperienced just keep adding VE's until they start making money on their rental servers. You can see the results of said actions every day here on WHT, unfortunately.

  10. #10
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    Sean,

    I do have to say that you're right, and what I see daily in the offers forum is quite frankly absurd. Regardless of the control panel, you have to make sure your business plan, and mindset - are set in the right place. Sure Virtuozzo does cost more, but as Sean was saying - you have to price and evaluate your plans properly. Selling a 512MB RAM VPS for $5 here on WHT, sure, everyone will go buy one - until your server cripples, because you have 80 users trying to use 512MB of RAM at a time on a node with 8GB of RAM. It just wont work out! In any event, I'm sure you'll be happy with either panel.

  11. #11
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    A lot of users (from what I've found) on WHT seem to be looking for amazing quality from low cost providers and nobody seems to get the fact that sometimes you get what you paid for.

    It may seem like it's a great deal at first and everything goes smoothly, but a few months down the road when everything is oversold then it becomes a huge headache. I've had a lot of sales lost to low cost providers, but I know that most of them are out shopping again in a few months.

    With that being said, I'm not saying all low cost providers oversell, but it seems like you hear a lot on WHT about how the low cost providers aren't keeping up with their promise (sometimes the higher end providers too, but more low end than high end).

    Just my 2 cents...
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  12. #12
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    After experiencing hypervm's lxadmin control panel, my skin itches when i use cpanel. I won't host a decently trafficed site without HyperVM behind it. Not only is it cheaper, the support is AMAZING on their forum and their hostinabox template is just.. well amazing.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woooo View Post
    What hypervm lacks? please support your statement with facts, it can do anything virtuozzo can do.

    I have same feelings for virtuozzo, becasuse design is a matter of personal choice, hypervm is highly advance and easy to use interface and virtuozzo is far inferior.
    Harder to navigate, and not designed as nicely. Virtuozzo is easier on the eyes and more neatly organized.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by seankoons View Post
    From my experience, I've found that most new start-up VPS companies nowadays use HyperVM, (1)because of the low capital required to get up and running. However, I have to admit that (2)I've noticed those same companies tend to go belly up pretty quick. I'm not blaming HyperVM for it at all, but I think HyperVM gives would-be-providers that mentality of "overloading/overselling" which leads to their inevitable demise. (3)It kind of comes with the territory when your paying nickles and dimes versus dollars for licensing.

    On the other hand, if you look at the VPS market in the last couple of years, those that tend to offer commercial based VPS products such as VZ or even those that take technologies such as Xen and customize them in-house tend to have a much sounder business plan and a higher chance of success.

    So, if your serious about getting into this niche market of web hosting, I would suggest you sit down and come up with a good plan and capital to (4) either buy a good commercial product such as VZ or spend the time and money to fully customize something like Xen or HyperVM/OpenVZ. That's what would truly separate you from the (5)high schooler that just rents a server at TP running HyperVM selling VE's for $5/m and the business man that knows what he's getting into and expects his business to pay the bills.

    All of the HyperVM fans, no need to flame this is only my personal opinion, everyone is entitled to one. Thanks.
    1. Yes this is a big plus for sellers and buyers, it uses same engine, but better everything in less prices.

    2. Happens with any company using any kind of solution, proprietary or open source.

    3. Paying less i snot always good for business, But in this case yes, I must admit. The hypervm technically contain no bugs and all complaints are solved instantly, I just experienced theur support a day back, a VM was stuck and yes they were better then anybody else when it comes to support. Infact the biggest reason for me to stick with them is their reliability and support and not license fees.

    4. Come on, I am not flaming, But you really need to explore the things out, Expensive is not always the best, though you are paying a lot, But you will fall in love with hypervm if you use it.

    5. Well, not to mention just hugh-schoolers, but anybody who is non-serious about any niche always ruins market in that market, Not only hypervm/virtuozzo it happens in everything, and yes TP also leases VZ licenses starting $50 as well so a schoolar can get them easily as well, no need to be a gold partner with swsoft and spend hundreds a month.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    Harder to navigate, and not designed as nicely. Virtuozzo is easier on the eyes and more neatly organized.
    Will you also say that Linux lacks? looks and all other BS

  16. #16
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    Also HyperVM gives errors which are sometimes hard to interpret. And Yes hypervm is heavy on the eyes at times which can be annoying.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    Harder to navigate, and not designed as nicely. Virtuozzo is easier on the eyes and more neatly organized.
    HyperVM is like linux commandline versus windows GUI, beginners will prefer the GUI, those who don't care about looks and care about functionality will go with the command line.

    We have to face it, the VPS market is being spoiled by overselling budget hosters. Paying 20USD a month for 512MB ram, 10GB disk and 500GB traffic is *not* a realistic amount of money.
    Those kinds of hosters just get customers, give them a good VPS for a couple of weeks, after which they lose the customers again because the node is oversold. Then the customers usually go again to a budget hoster, to get in the same circle again.
    Starting up hosters that offer good VPSses at higher but more realistic prices, lose customers to the budget hosters, as I notice myself at the moment.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by seankoons View Post
    From my experience, I've found that most new start-up VPS companies nowadays use HyperVM, because of the low capital required to get up and running. However, I have to admit that I've noticed those same companies tend to go belly up pretty quick. I'm not blaming HyperVM for it at all, but I think HyperVM gives would-be-providers that mentality of "overloading/overselling" which leads to their inevitable demise. It kind of comes with the territory when your paying nickles and dimes versus dollars for licensing.



    All of the HyperVM fans, no need to flame this is only my personal opinion, everyone is entitled to one. Thanks.

    Hi Sean, :-)

    What you have described is the standard problem that any service goes through when it is becoming commoditized. The problem is not overselling, but a general lack of knowledge about virtualization in the industry. HyperVM/Lxadmin, for good or bad, has introduced virtualization to a large number of people who otherwise wouldn't have tried it. It may have caused issues now, but in the long run, it will lead to virtualization becoming ubiquitous. Openvz/Xen (hyperVM is merely a Control Panel) is doing to virtualization what Linux did to shared hosting. In 1999, I am sure someone would have reached exactly your conclusion comparing Linux hosting companies to companies hosting on Sun or IBM. But Today, I doubt anyone would want to make such a statement. We initially planned on charging higher for HyperVM precisely for these reasons, but we realized that in software, people have very clearly learned via Linux that cost does not have always correlate with quality. And as a vendor too, in the long run, it was better for us to make it a commodity than go for higher margins.

    People learn. And they learn fast when they are making mistakes. In a couple of years, vpses will be as cheap and as common as shared hosting. Knowledge and expertise is the key, and that is what is lacking now, and that is what is changing.

    Anyway, Hypervm is merely a simple Control Panel, which is why we are now giving a 10 server, 100 domain version of Lxadmin Enterprise itself free with it. You get the only truly distributed hosting Control Panel free with hyperVM. :-)

    If you want to invest in anything, I would advice investing in learning about openvz/xen technologies. As a comparison, people who learned to use Linux/BSD judiciously are the ones who ultimately succeeded in the shared hosting industry.
    Last edited by hello-world; 02-25-2008 at 01:55 AM.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello-world View Post
    Anyway, Hypervm is merely a simple Control Panel, which is why we are now giving a 10 server, 100 domain version of Lxadmin Enterprise itself free with it. You get the only truly distributed hosting Control Panel free with hyperVM. :-)
    In what way does that differ from well-known distributed systems such as HSPhere, Helm and PEM?
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Layershift Andrew View Post
    In what way does that differ from well-known distributed systems such as HSPhere, Helm and PEM?
    Helm was windows only. Lxadmin can transparently handle Linux/Windows cluster, and you can even copy/paste a file between Linux and Windows. You can copy a file on windows and then paste it on Linux. You can move a website from Linux to windows, and it will automatically convert the configuration from apache/lighttpd to IIS. Our windows support is in beta, and will be released 2 months after Windows 2008.

    As for Hsphere, I can start a debate on why sshing remotely into a Linux machine and running script there shouldn't be called 'distribution', but madness, but any discussion on Hsphere would be moot, since Parallels page for Hsphere now explicitly recommends that you use Plesk for 'future growth'. A discussion on how a company can callously ask their customers to move from a centrally managed system like Hsphere to a single server system like Plesk, would be worthwhile, but that should be a separate thread.


    The only one left is PEM, but unfortunately it is not publicly available, even a demo. And I can only wonder at Swsoft's statement that a support contract with Swsoft is mandatory to deploy PEM on your servers. Is PEM so buggy that you need mandatory support personnel to maintain it? Lxadmin distribution just works. Our explicit aim at Lxlabs is to write software that doesn't need our support to run. Lxadmin Enterprise in its initial stages had this same issue. You could deploy it, but you would need constant help from us to maintain it, but Lxadmin Enterprise has outgrown that stage. From what Swsoft is claiming, the only conclusion I can draw is that PEM is still in the initial stages where it cannot be deployed without manual intervention. That's not 'true' distribution.
    HyperVM, The most complete VPS management system in the industry, now with Windows Support
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello-world View Post
    Helm was windows only. Lxadmin can transparently handle Linux/Windows cluster, and you can even copy/paste a file between Linux and Windows. You can copy a file on windows and then paste it on Linux. You can move a website from Linux to windows, and it will automatically convert the configuration from apache/lighttpd to IIS. Our windows support is in beta, and will be released 2 months after Windows 2008.

    As for Hsphere, I can start a debate on why sshing remotely into a Linux machine and running script there shouldn't be called 'distribution', but madness, but any discussion on Hsphere would be moot, since Parallels page for Hsphere now explicitly recommends that you use Plesk for 'future growth'. A discussion on how a company can callously ask their customers to move from a centrally managed system like Hsphere to a single server system like Plesk, would be worthwhile, but that should be a separate thread.


    The only one left is PEM, but unfortunately it is not publicly available, even a demo. And I can only wonder at Swsoft's statement that a support contract with Swsoft is mandatory to deploy PEM on your servers. Is PEM so buggy that you need mandatory support personnel to maintain it? Lxadmin distribution just works. Our explicit aim at Lxlabs is to write software that doesn't need our support to run. Lxadmin Enterprise in its initial stages had this same issue. You could deploy it, but you would need constant help from us to maintain it, but Lxadmin Enterprise has outgrown that stage. From what Swsoft is claiming, the only conclusion I can draw is that PEM is still in the initial stages where it cannot be deployed without manual intervention. That's not 'true' distribution.
    Plesk with Expand and Parallels Business Automation Standard (HSPc) offers distributed services comparable to HSphere from my understanding. I suspect that's what Parallels are getting at when they suggest Plesk as a future growth product. They don't say it has every feature HSphere has, and don't say they won't continue to support HSPhere, they simply suggest you use Plesk for future business growth. I am assuming you have no idea of their product roadmap for Plesk so I don't see how you can call this "callous" unless you know something I don't about their plans for Plesk/Expand/PBAS?

    PEM may not be publically available, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You said your product is the ONLY distributed hosting platform, Parallels' marketing material makes it pretty clear PEM is a fully distributed hosting platform. I have used PEM extensively and it is far from "initial stages" and a very mature product. They may make support mandatory, but that doesn't mean it's a bad product it just means it's complex and very comprehensive and so support is useful to guide you in the right direction from time to time. If you're making the huge committment to Parallels that PEM requires, I would imagine any sane provider would want the reassurance of support should things go wrong with their setup anyway, no software is bug-free and for any fully distributed hosting platform you need support engineers and developers there to begin fixing any problem you come across very quickly if it is impacting your business (and with any software you _will_ find a problem eventually, big or small).

    It seems to me you are trying to sell your product by posting comments such as "you get the _only_ truly distributed hosting Control Panel free with hyperVM" when you know very well that there are competitors out there who have been doing this a lot longer than you. I haven't used your product so I don't know how it compares, but I have used PEM and I don't believe for a minute that a company of your size has developed a product anywhere near as complete and mature as PEM (and is giving it away practically for free) unless you've been working on it for a *very* long time. If you have then perhaps it's time I demo it as I may really be missing out on something spectacular.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm sure your product has its place and it may be a great product I haven't used - I've heard some good things about HyperVM. I just think you are being misleading in your comments. That being said, more competition in the hosting software industry is greatly welcome and I wish you good luck with your products but I just feel you could be more accurate in your comments regarding your competition.
    Last edited by Layershift Andrew; 02-25-2008 at 06:13 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Check the below links. I am sure you will get an idea on the best product in the market

    http://boardreader.com/t/Dedicated_S...erVM_8471.html
    http://www.hotproductsreview.net/vir...s-hypervm.html
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Layershift Andrew View Post
    Plesk with Expand and Parallels Business Automation Standard (HSPc) offers distributed services comparable to HSphere from my understanding. I suspect that's what Parallels are getting at when they suggest Plesk as a future growth product. They don't say it has every feature HSphere has, and don't say they won't continue to support HSPhere, they simply suggest you use Plesk for future business growth. I am assuming you have no idea of their product roadmap for Plesk so I don't see how you can call this "callous" unless you know something I don't about their plans for Plesk/Expand/PBAS?
    Plesk/Expand/HSPC has fundamentally different architecture than Hsphere. The integration of Plesk/Hspc happens via XML messaging, and can in no way scale up. There are some fundamental ideas inherent in the core architecture which makes them incompatible, and I think anyone can confidently say that Hsphere is not the same as Plesk/Hspc. On Hsphere, you can access every domain in the entire cluster from a single place. To implement that in HSPC would be impossible. The design philosophies of Plesk and Hsphere are radically different, and there are MAJOR differences that are irreconcilable. If they had touted PEM as the replacement for Hsphere, it would indeed have been understandable. In fact, it is genuinely unconscionable behavior on the part of Swsoft that they have a product very similar to Hsphere (PEM), and yet, they ask their customers to move to another product with a differing architecture.



    PEM may not be publically available, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You said your product is the ONLY distributed hosting platform, Parallels' marketing material makes it pretty clear PEM is a fully distributed hosting platform.
    I said lxadmin is the only true distributed platform, similar to Swsoft's claim that virtuozzo is the only 'true' vps. My gripe is with their comment that support is mandatory . I would just define 'true' distribution as one for which support is not mandatory. :-)

    I have used PEM extensively and it is far from "initial stages" and a very mature product. They may make support mandatory, but that doesn't mean it's a bad product it just means it's complex and very comprehensive and so support is useful to guide you in the right direction from time to time.
    In the comparison page they said the difference between HSPC and PEM is that for PEM, support is mandatory . To get the full potential of ANY software, you will need assistance from the parent company. But making support mandatory is not a sign of great design.


    It seems to me you are trying to sell your product by posting comments such as "you get the _only_ truly distributed hosting Control Panel free with hyperVM" when you know very well that there are competitors out there who have been doing this a lot longer than you. If you have then perhaps it's time I demo it as I may really be missing out on something spectacular.
    I was merely adding to my statement that hyperVM is so simple that we are doing our best to provide some real value to our customers. As in, we are feeling uneasy that people are paying so much for such simple software, and we want to give something more to put ourselves at ease. :-) We have even open sourced some of our modules and drivers, and we even have a community of users who are contributing code to hyperVM/Lxadmin. Control Panels are trivial to write. I am really confused how Plesk and Cpanel can take so many years to develop, and still can't do distribution.

    Lxadmin demo is available at our site, and you can see how we have implemented transparent distribution. It will just work and we don't have a single outstanding bug at any point. If you report a bug, we will fix it within minutes.

    Thanks.
    HyperVM, The most complete VPS management system in the industry, now with Windows Support
    http://lxlabs.com/software/hypervm/full-feature
    Lxadmin: HiB: runs on 15MB RAM; Enterprise: 100s of thousands of domains on 100s of Servers.
    http://lxlabs.com/software/lxadmin/

  24. #24
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    I did have a look at lxadmin and to be fair, this and PEM is not even remotely close to being in the same league. PEM is *massive* and you can do close to anything remotely imaginable with it.

    Buying a hosting system is an ongoing partnership with your software provider and your hosting company and to compare if support is mandatory or not is kind of silly.

    For my money PEM is a well thought out hosting and application hosting solution. lxadmin is a panel.

  25. #25
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    I just started using HyperVM. It seems to be very reliable so far, and cost alot less than virtuozzo.
    Im currently on a budget, but if i were not, i still have to say, i would probobly use HyperVM. The only thing about it is virtuozzo is much more popular

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