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  1. #1

    Ecatel complaint [SPLIT from ad thread]

    We've dealt with several server companies, FDC, Leaseweb, MyDediServer, OVH, Staminus and they were all very honest. However, we now have dealt with Ecatel, and that has changed.

    We cancelled our server on January 9th. Here is their e-mail confirming our cancellation:

    Hello,

    Thank you for your e-mail, I have added your cancelation to our schedule.

    Besides that I don’t understand the reason, u can reboot by yourself andsupport is handled per e-mail. Also we never received complaints about connection, if we did we wouldsolved them. There is a 24/7 noc team in here ([email protected]).

    Best regards,ECATEL (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.

    They did not cancel us, but took a payment on January 11th and also February 11th. When we realized what they were doing, we contacted them ONE HOUR after the 2nd payment was taken by them. Here is their reply.

    Dear Mr. *****,
    U e-mail us about cancelation of services but u are paying us for the server we offer. We are not taking any money from u, otherwise we wouldn’t sent u an invoice + reminders for overdue payments. The money is sent by yourself (or your account). We cannot refund to clients for services we deliver(ed).

    We were willing to admit the first payment was our fault, since the timing was close to our renewal. But not refunding the 2nd payment, one hour after it was taken, just borders on fraud.

    Avoid Ecatel .. stick to the honest ones.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Dear shoutcaststreaming,

    U paid us with paypal, it is impossible to 'take' a payment from our clients. Otherwise we wouldnt have sent u an invoice + overdue reminders for the invoice. U have sent us your payment serveral times (5 months). It is more then logical we dont refund for our services because the server was/is still active. If u wish to cancel services u should stop your subscription and we will stop services.

    There is no case of fraud in here, paypal also decided we are in our right.

    I also want to let u know your one hour is not true, ive asked administration the times. Once i got them today i will publish them on the forum.

    best regards
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Here we are again,

    invoice sent : 08-02-08 02:46(CET)
    paydate : 11-02-08 11:36 (CET)
    received e-mail from u regarding payment: Tue 12/02/2008 02:59

    Also u did forget u claimed two months at paypal, and here u are only talking about one month chargeback.

    We have multiple clients who tell us per e-mail, please cancel my box but stay with us. They pay the bill and they stay. We dont fetch the money from the client, they can only sent it. If they dont wish to stay with us they just dont pay and we shutdown the box one day after duedate. Because of this we are able to deliver all our services on monthly base.

    I want to let u know this is no discussion topic but our offer topic, if anyone wishes to have any more information. Please feel free to contact us at [email protected]
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  4. #4
    First of all, you never addresses the main point.

    We e-mailed you to cancel our server and you agreed to do that. You did not cancel the server as you said you would.

    We have not used that server in over one month, since we believed you were honest and would cancel the server, per your e-mail.

    This wasn't a cheap server, but a dedicated bandwidth 25mbit server costing 175 euros a month. We have thousands of internet radio stations that we host and servers all around the world. The quality of your bandwidth, and the number of times you had router / network problem was unacceptable. We have PingPlotter reports that document that.

    In our business we treat all customers with respect and when there are complaints, we solve them. If your attitude is to keep $530.00 because you feel you don't have to provide any kind of reliable support or stick to your word, then that is your the way you conduct your business.

    Just wanted to warn off potential customers to beware of their unscrupulous business practices.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
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    If u e-mail to cancel and u pay then u cancel your cancelation, otherwise u dont pay us. If u didnt wanted to use the box, why the hell u paid it? If u e-mailed our noc about your (possible) problems, we had helped u. Like we do with ALL our other clients if they have ANY problem. If we had complaints we solved them.

    I wish u good luck with your other provider.
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  6. #6
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    Complaint split from ad thread
    Having problems, or maybe questions about WHT? Head over to the help desk!
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  7. #7
    We were paying on an month to month invoice basis. Then one day you gave us a link to click and it put us on a subscription basis. You tricked us into starting a subscription. We didn't know the money was taken out automatically by you. .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecatel
    If u didnt wanted to use the box, why the hell u paid it?
    Your condescending attitude and degrading language only goes to show what a low class operation you run.


    The bottom line is that you said you would cancel the server (per your e-mail) and you didn't.

    The way you treat your customers will catch up to you in the end.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Hello, thanks for response. Paypal analyzed the dispute you opened. They decided we are in our right. I have no further comments on your messages.
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Sorry, I know this is slightly off-topic but...

    @Ecatel
    Sorry to nitpick, but in English conversations, please use you and not u to refer to the other party. Using just u might be correct in formal Dutch (and "l33t sp34k" English) but not in professional English.

    ---

    As for the problem described, I suppose payments are being made by PayPal subscription. If in this case the customer is required to actively cancel it, I suppose Ecatel should have clearly stated this when the sent the cancellation confirmation.

    Btw, you can cancel subscriptions by logging into your PayPal account, view the details of one of the payments in question and look for a (clickable) reference number near the top. This'll bring you to a page where (if I'm right) you can cancel the subscription.
    .
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShoutcastStreamin View Post
    We were paying on an month to month invoice basis. Then one day you gave us a link to click and it put us on a subscription basis. You tricked us into starting a subscription. We didn't know the money was taken out automatically by you. .

    Your condescending attitude and degrading language only goes to show what a low class operation you run.

    The bottom line is that you said you would cancel the server (per your e-mail) and you didn't.

    The way you treat your customers will catch up to you in the end.
    It would seem therein lies the critical piece of information.

    Whilst I can't comment on how sneaky it was for elcatel to give you the link to change to subscription based payment (without seeing its context..) at the end of the day *you* clicked the link.

    It's common sense these days not to click any link until you're sure of what it does, even if it does come from your provider.

    Of course if Elcatel gave you a link claiming it was one thing and the result of clicking it was another....

    Kev
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  11. #11
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    Our invoices display two images for paypal.

    1) pay now with paypal
    2) subscribe with paypal

    Our clients can confirm this.

    We just handle our policy we handle with all clients, we told our story to paypal and mr shoutcaststreaming did the same. Paypal decided we are in our right.
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    Complaint split from ad thread
    I love how my post on Vaguhost's last ad regarding the large number of complaints surfacing re: Vaguhost was immediately removed and I was warned, but this thread just gets moved...

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GHDpro View Post
    Sorry, I know this is slightly off-topic but...

    @Ecatel
    Sorry to nitpick, but in English conversations, please use you and not u to refer to the other party. Using just u might be correct in formal Dutch (and "l33t sp34k" English) but not in professional English.

    ---

    As for the problem described, I suppose payments are being made by PayPal subscription. If in this case the customer is required to actively cancel it, I suppose Ecatel should have clearly stated this when the sent the cancellation confirmation.

    Btw, you can cancel subscriptions by logging into your PayPal account, view the details of one of the payments in question and look for a (clickable) reference number near the top. This'll bring you to a page where (if I'm right) you can cancel the subscription.
    Also off topic, I had to come of my couch to nitpick back a little.

    Please dont pick on somebody's English. Thats not done, especially not when you yourself make typing errors in your off-topic contribution to the topic. (when the..... sent the cancellation). :-)

    Warm regards,
    An Englishman in Amsterdam
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Cap View Post
    Also off topic, I had to come of my couch to nitpick back a little.

    Please dont pick on somebody's English. Thats not done, especially not when you yourself make typing errors in your off-topic contribution to the topic. (when the..... sent the cancellation). :-)

    Warm regards,
    An Englishman in Amsterdam
    Okay, I'm not saying my English is perfect either, but considering "u" was seemingly consistently misused for "you", I felt I should notify Ecatel about it. I apologize if my post seemed to patronizing though.
    .
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  15. #15
    Dear GHDpro,

    No hard feelings old chap: to should be too, secondly I dont think Ecatel was waiting for your ''notification'', and thirdly you're saying your English is not perfect either, meaning/referring the either to whom ......?

    Never mind, lets say it was your opening to the topic.

    Get back to my couch as quickly as I possibly can and go for my daily nap.

    Warm regards from Amsterdam,
    An Englishman in..........
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  16. #16

    Me last getting up from me cough

    Quote Originally Posted by GHDpro View Post
    Okay, I'm not saying my English is perfect either, but considering "u" was seemingly consistently misused for "you", I felt I should notify Ecatel about it. I apologize if my post seemed to patronizing though.

    to be patronising or too patronising, which one apart from the s=c !
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  17. #17
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    I'm a bit confused. The customer told the provider in the email to cancel the server. The provider acknowledges his wishes to cancel yet when the paypal payments come in the provider doesn't think twice about taking money for a canceled server?
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  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippy4president View Post
    I'm a bit confused. The customer told the provider in the email to cancel the server. The provider acknowledges his wishes to cancel yet when the paypal payments come in the provider doesn't think twice about taking money for a canceled server?
    The provider said some customers ask to cancel and then change mind and keep paying and using the service without notification. As the customer didn't cancel the PayPal subscription the provider was automatically paid and then kept the service available.

    PayPal Subscriptions and Recurring Payments let you accept recurring payments for your service. Subscribers are billed automatically according to the terms you specify, removing the hassle of keeping track of which payments you have and have not received. This means that after the regular billing cycle that you previously entered is complete, your customers’ subscriptions will be automatically renewed unless a customer manually cancels his subscription. .
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  19. #19
    Please note this a topic about a user not liking Ecatel's services, not about how good our english is.

    Not trying to backseat mod, though I think it's getting a bit off topic.
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  20. #20
    I'm a bit confused. The customer told the provider in the email to cancel the server. The provider acknowledges his wishes to cancel yet when the paypal payments come in the provider doesn't think twice about taking money for a canceled server?
    Yes, that is exactly correct. We were on an Invoice month to month with PayPal and suddenly, we were put on a Subscription with PayPal. Ecatel claims that it is not their job to cancel the server / subscription. The question remains is how we were put on a Subscription. We are apealing the PayPal ruling in favor of Ecatel.

    Okay, I'm not saying my English is perfect either, but considering "u" was seemingly consistently misused for "you", I felt I should notify Ecatel about it. I apologize if my post seemed to patronizing though.
    It doesn't matter to us if Ecatel uses the Queen's English or not. However, what does matter to us, is the callous way we were treated and the vulgar language they use at a customer in their post above.

    To future show Ecatel's non-caring attitude, our server went down before we cancelled. It was hosting hundreds of Internet Radio Stations. We were getting tons of e-mail from our customers complaining their radio streams were off the air. We tried 4 or 5 times to re-boot the server via their automatic re-boot process. We could not. We put in a support ticket. We also sent 3 e-mails in a 6 hour period.

    We were down for 6 hours before they replied. We were down from 5 AM (Amsterdam time) until 11 AM (Amsterdam time). Here is their response:

    hello,

    u can reboot the server by yourself in our controlpanel. Please note u mailed our support in the middle of the night here, our supportdesk is less staffed during night hours. Is the server online now? or do we need to send an engineer to it to check?

    ecaetl support

    -- Ecatel support
    -- [email protected]

    I consider 5 AM - 11 AM to be in the morning hours. Notice how Ecatel states that their support desk is less staffed during the night hours. How many people think 5AM - 11AM is during the night? Are they on North Pole time?
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  21. #21
    Join Date
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    hello,

    for urgent cases you can contact our 24/7 network operation center [email protected] or EVEN CALL our network operation center http://noc.ecatel.net/

    This information is also provided to you when the server was delivered.
    Currently it is 5:25 here

    EDIT: Ah i see why you didnt receive a quick response (which is true indeed). This because you did NOT e-mail us but used modernbill for contact, this system isnt used by us. All contact is handled by e-mail. Support & sales is only availible for urgent cases during the night. NOC is availible 24/7 for issues.
    Last edited by Ecatel; 02-15-2008 at 12:34 AM.
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  22. #22
    Now you are lying.

    We went through NOC.

    It's bad enough that you stole our money and your attitude and language are not stellar. But facts are facts and we have documentation of them.
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  23. #23
    Join Date
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    Lying? I will publish a screenshot on WHT.

    Give me a few minutes. My english might be bad but we atleast reply to your messages.

    There is no money stolen here, you opened a dispute at paypal and lost it. Are they a bad company now aswell?
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  24. #24
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    Exclamation

    As promised,

    http://files.ecatel.nl/modernbill.png

    People who know how modernbill looks like see
    this isn't e-mail.

    As said, you opened a dispute at paypal and tried to claim two months back from us (one month which was already FULLY delivered) and the second month which was started (from my head) two days already. Paypal investigated your dispute and decided we handled honest and rightfully.

    I will not waste my time any further on this (closed) issue.
    Good luck with your new provider, we (really) wish u all the best.
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecatel View Post
    Ah i see why you didnt receive a quick response (which is true indeed). This because you did NOT e-mail us but used modernbill for contact, this system isnt used by us. All contact is handled by e-mail. Support & sales is only availible for urgent cases during the night. NOC is availible 24/7 for issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ecatel View Post
    As promised,

    http://files.ecatel.nl/modernbill.png

    People who know how modernbill looks like see
    this isn't e-mail.
    I'm confused.

    First you say the system is not used by your company and then you present a screenshot showing a support ticket created by the customer using the system "not used by your company" and ticket replies from your staff in the system "not used by your company".

    Also you say during the night (in Amsterdam I suppose) the support is only available for urgent cases (is site down an urgent case?) even though you state NOC is available 24/7 for issues.
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-15-2008 at 02:28 AM.
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  26. #26
    Thanks for the screen shot.

    Here is ours:
    http://www.shoutcaststreaming.us/ecatel.jpg

    We are done talking.

    It's a no-win situation for us. We are much happier with our other server providers. Better network, better support, respectful treatment, the latter being very important.

    We will just let public opinion decide.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    I'm confused.
    I'm also confused(actually, I don't even understand what's going on in the whole thread). I guess.... ticket system is only available for urgent cases during at night and ShoutcastStreamin was supposed to email network centre([email protected]) for quick response.
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  28. #28
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShoutcastStreamin View Post
    Yes, that is exactly correct. We were on an Invoice month to month with PayPal and suddenly, we were put on a Subscription with PayPal. Ecatel claims that it is not their job to cancel the server / subscription. The question remains is how we were put on a Subscription. We are apealing the PayPal ruling in favor of Ecatel.
    The problem is how did the link Ecatel send you looks like? If it didn't contain any single word mentioning subscription in the email, then I would consider it to be a scam.

    Quote Originally Posted by JelloX
    Please note this a topic about a user not liking Ecatel's services, not about how good our english is.

    Not trying to backseat mod, though I think it's getting a bit off topic.
    hey, you guys ruined my free English class......

    But overall I only heard nothing but good from Ecatel. The only reason I'm not with them, is their start cost at US$150 for the cheapest box. I know two WHT members personally, one still own 3 boxes on Ecatel and another one who was with Ecatel. They are/were paying the amount equivalent or even more than 179eu but I don't hear any billing issue from them.
    Last edited by HKPlane; 02-15-2008 at 03:16 AM.
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  30. #30
    i have 3 boxes as well from ecatel, and pay by paypal each month. you can either pay manually or subscribe. it's pretty much your job to unsubscribe, if you cancelled the services, but it's also your job not to act like you don't know anything about how the money got from your account to ecatel. they can't take yout money, that's silly and acting childish, and not taking responsability for your actions.

    this could have been solved very easily anyways by sending an email: hey guys, I=me=myself forgot to cancel the subscription, and there are 2 more months paid to you. could you please refund me the cash ? thanks.

    in my ecatel experience i have learned that they are very friendly, and any hoster should be friendly, as long as proper language is used, and the customer doesn't come up with "i don't know... did santa claus get the money from my paypal acount? i have no clue of anything, i don't know"

    my 2 3 4 5 cents
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  31. #31
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    Exclamation

    To whom it may concern,

    We think the following can only be the policy of every bona fide provider.

    When a client tells us he ‘ll cancel the box after a payment was made, we leave the box running till the end of the paid for period.
    We have to because the client then is the ‘’owner’’ for that period.
    Then at the end of that period our invoicing program sends a renewal at the end of the paid for period,……………. why, because we don’t cancel as long as the client pays, as simple as that. (Even though the client cancelled, when he pays the bill again we cannot close down the server.

    Just imagine, the second payment came in, and we ‘d cancelled the server and handed the server to somebody else ? What would the clients story then have been if he did not in actual fact wanted to cancel the server, after a change of mind ? How are we to know ?

    As long as the payments come in, we render our services, whether we have a cancellation or not.

    Secondly:

    We cannot change payments into subscription payments with Paypal, with merchant banks or any other money transferring companies, that can only be done by the accountholder.

    Kindly,
    Ecatel (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
    High bandwidth dedicated server provider in Europe!
    SPEEDTEST: http://89.248.167.11/100mb.bin MSN & EMAIL: sales @ ecatel.info
    Live Chat Support @ http://ecatel.info
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  32. #32
    I've been with more hosts than you can imagine, and, Ecatel, you are, by far, one of the few that I will stay away from given this information.

    I have one question for you:

    Why didn't you contact your client at least one day before the subscription was to be paid and confirm that they want to cancel their service? Maybe the client doesn't know how to cancel a paypal subscription and wanted to leave it up to you, after kindly asking to cancel their service.

    If I wanted to try a hosting company for a month (get a server for just one month then cancel), I would pay for the server, then, like ShoutcastStreaming has done, I would email the hosting company asking to cancel my service before the payment is done. Then, I would assume that at least a day before my service was due, the hosting company would send me an email asking whether or not I indeed wanted to cancel my server. It just makes logical sense; something that Ecatel seems to not have any of while dealing with their clients.

    @themedia: The only reason you haven't had any troubles with Ecatel is because you haven't tried to cancel a subscription with them.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellHound View Post
    I've been with more hosts than you can imagine, and, Ecatel, you are, by far, one of the few that I will stay away from given this information.

    I have one question for you:

    Why didn't you contact your client at least one day before the subscription was to be paid and confirm that they want to cancel their service? Maybe the client doesn't know how to cancel a paypal subscription and wanted to leave it up to you, after kindly asking to cancel their service.

    If I wanted to try a hosting company for a month (get a server for just one month then cancel), I would pay for the server, then, like ShoutcastStreaming has done, I would email the hosting company asking to cancel my service before the payment is done. Then, I would assume that at least a day before my service was due, the hosting company would send me an email asking whether or not I indeed wanted to cancel my server. It just makes logical sense; something that Ecatel seems to not have any of while dealing with their clients.

    @themedia: The only reason you haven't had any troubles with Ecatel is because you haven't tried to cancel a subscription with them.
    While I have never used Ecatel, I can say that don't act as if the client does not have to take any responsibility for their actions. If they did not cancel the subscription, that is their fault. It also took them over a month to realize that payments have been taken.

    I do believe that Ecatel should have refunded the 2nd payment in good faith, especially since the client admitted it as their fault for making the payment in the month of January when they did not mean to.

    I know that when something like this happens in our billing department and if it's clearly a mistake, we'll refund the payment without a problem.
    AYKsolutions.com - High Bandwidth Specialists - 100TB/1Gbps/10Gbps Unmetered/CDN/DDOS Protected
    Over 20 Global Locations - Asia, Mexico, Brazil, India, Australia, US, CA, EU - Bare Metal and Virtual Cloud. All Managed.
    View our current Specials.
    We are Professional. Painless. Polite.
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  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ayksolutions
    I do believe that Ecatel should have refunded the 2nd payment in good faith, especially since the client admitted it as their fault for making the payment in the month of January when they did not mean to.
    Thank you, we agree with that.

    Some of our clients use your servers, and I have heard nothing but good things about your company.
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  35. #35
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    Thank you for the good words. I hope that both parties are able to resolve this issue sooner than later.
    AYKsolutions.com - High Bandwidth Specialists - 100TB/1Gbps/10Gbps Unmetered/CDN/DDOS Protected
    Over 20 Global Locations - Asia, Mexico, Brazil, India, Australia, US, CA, EU - Bare Metal and Virtual Cloud. All Managed.
    View our current Specials.
    We are Professional. Painless. Polite.
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  36. #36
    Ecatel is not giving an inch and will not negotiate.

    We contacted them one hour after the 2nd payment was sent and asked for the refund. We were willing to compromise, but they will not. If we had used the server, it would be a different story, but it hadn't been used in 33 days, since the 1st cancellation e-mail.

    We will continue to recommend AKYSOLUTIONS to anyone, since you demonstrate a high level of support, class and good business sense.
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  37. #37
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    ayksolutions, i agree with you, mistakes or miscommunication, ecatel should refund to the client as a good faith
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  38. #38
    It was the customers fault for not stopping the subscription, I'm sure Ecatel shouldn't have to baby their customers and tell them to cancel their subscription, the customer paid for the server, and even if he does not use it, its still paid for.

    Ecatel is a great company and I would recommend them to anyone looking for a offshore solution.
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  39. #39
    Join Date
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    Posts
    765
    Any decent host would use their head when someone cancles, then the payment is coming. It would seams strange if a customer cancled his service, then money flows, and the provider is left wondering.

    This could have been solved much faster if Ecatel were willing to cooperate.
      0 Not allowed!

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,574
    Quote Originally Posted by JelloX View Post
    It was the customers fault for not stopping the subscription, I'm sure Ecatel shouldn't have to baby their customers and tell them to cancel their subscription, the customer paid for the server, and even if he does not use it, its still paid for.
    "We contacted them one hour after the 2nd payment was sent and asked for the refund."

    What is the problem with refund a customer who asked to cancel and the payment was made by mistake? What is the Ecatel loss if the customer is paying in advance?

    BTW I'm sure my company has to baby, keep happy, and exceed our customers expectations ever. We would never refuse to refund money the customer paid but believes we don't deserve that money. Simple like that.
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-16-2008 at 03:50 PM.
      0 Not allowed!

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