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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    Cool. But now, that's confusing. The average latency of ~4 ms puts it in the class of SCSI drives. The rotational speed of 7200 rpm put it in the class of SATA. The HD size (500 GB, 750 G, 1000 GB) also puts it in the class of SATA drives. So what is it? And why do they offer both SAS and SATA interface? Aren't they interchangeable?
    most new generation of hardware RAID cards from Adaptec and LSI are SAS/SATA unified. one card can handle both types, and you can even mix them if you want. we're definitely seeing a trend that putting a pair of inexpensive SATA in RAID1 for OS/boot/apps, then installing RAID-5/6/10 SAS for greater than 2TB capacity of dedicated data volume, all from one single RAID card.

    it seems these barracuda ES2 SAS drives are good for large capacity NAS at "relatively" reasonable cost. despite they costs about twice the SATA drives at the same capacity, but still much lower than the usual 5~6 times spread between SAS and SATA.
    C.W. LEE, Apaq Digital Systems
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  2. #27
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    Only problem being, we had some fail within 2 hours of them going online, not impressed for the money at all.
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  3. #28
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    not sure about the ES2 SAS drives which are still under very limited supply, but we have quite a positive experience about the 750G barracuda ES SATA drives (ST3750640NS & ST3750330NS). maybe 1~2 DOA out of couple of hundreds we have installed. I guess experience varies from user to user....
    C.W. LEE, Apaq Digital Systems
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwl@apaqdigital View Post
    it seems these barracuda ES2 SAS drives are good for large capacity NAS at "relatively" reasonable cost. despite they costs about twice the SATA drives at the same capacity, but still much lower than the usual 5~6 times spread between SAS and SATA.
    Well the thing is, these so called "SAS" drive is nothing more than SATA drive with SAS interface. So I find it very unfair if they charge twice the price of the SATA drive for the interface change. In other words, as you have said many RAID controller now takes both SAS and SATA, what is the reason one would get the SAS version at twice the price of the SATA version? I compared the tech sheet and both SATA and SAS specs look identical.

    Just want to check myself, what is the typical average seek time on a SATA drive? I had thought it's usually around 9 ms. But Seagate quoted the average seek time at 4.16 ms. I wonder if this is a mistake, because their older Maxtor drive is also quoted with an average seek time of 4.16 ms. CMIIW, 3-4 ms average seek time belongs to SCSI/SAS drives.
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  5. #30
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    SAS has a few features SATA doesn't, one being the ability to talk with two controllers at once from memory.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    Well the thing is, these so called "SAS" drive is nothing more than SATA drive with SAS interface. So I find it very unfair if they charge twice the price of the SATA drive for the interface change. In other words, as you have said many RAID controller now takes both SAS and SATA, what is the reason one would get the SAS version at twice the price of the SATA version? I compared the tech sheet and both SATA and SAS specs look identical.

    Just want to check myself, what is the typical average seek time on a SATA drive? I had thought it's usually around 9 ms. But Seagate quoted the average seek time at 4.16 ms. I wonder if this is a mistake, because their older Maxtor drive is also quoted with an average seek time of 4.16 ms. CMIIW, 3-4 ms average seek time belongs to SCSI/SAS drives.
    the 4.16ms is for "average latency". the average seek time is rated at 8.5ms/9.5ms (read/write), regardless ES2 SATA or SAS! yes, you are right about 'these so called "SAS" drive is nothing more than SATA drive with SAS interface'!

    back to the topic, those 2.5" Savvio 15K SAS drives are great! 2.0ms latency, and 2.9ms/3.3ms (read/write) seek time, and consumes just 8-watt max. too bad that 73-Gig is largest Seagate makes.

    the 11.3" deep super-compact mini 1U chassis such as SC510-200 from supermicro is capable of 4x 2.5" SAS drives. imaging that 4x 73G 15K SAS RAID10 running on Xeon Kentsfield Quad-core, comfortably reside in a 17" x 11" box with 200watt power supply!
    Last edited by cwl@apaqdigital; 02-08-2008 at 02:20 PM.
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  7. #32
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    Ah yea ... my mistake. The average seek time of 4.16 ms is simply for 7200 rpm drives.

    Yea, definitely SATA drive.
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  8. #33
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    LEE (or anyone else for that matter) know when Supermicro will be offering 2.5" bays?
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by empoweri View Post
    LEE (or anyone else for that matter) know when Supermicro will be offering 2.5" bays?
    SC510 is available now! you do need to buy the 4x 2.5" retention brackets separately.

    SM also has these SAS hot-swap drive cages available:
    (4x hot-swap 2.5" SAS bays; takes 1x 5.25" drive bay) http://www.supermicro.com/products/a...ck/CSE-M14.cfm
    (8x hot-swap 2.5" SAS bays; takes 2x 5.25: drive bay) http://www.supermicro.com/products/a.../CSE-M28E1.cfm
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwl@apaqdigital View Post
    SC510 is available now! you do need to buy the 4x 2.5" retention brackets separately.

    SM also has these SAS hot-swap drive cages available:
    (4x hot-swap 2.5" SAS bays; takes 1x 5.25" drive bay) http://www.supermicro.com/products/a...ck/CSE-M14.cfm
    (8x hot-swap 2.5" SAS bays; takes 2x 5.25: drive bay) http://www.supermicro.com/products/a.../CSE-M28E1.cfm
    Hmm, the SC510 not exactly what I was looking but a start.

    I'm looking for something that's hot swap in a 1U and/or 2U setup.
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  11. #36
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    alternatively, you can use SC822/SC823 2U chassis, then install CSE-M14 (4x HS SAS) drive cage in the lone 5.25" bay. essentially, this will give you 6x 3.5" SAS hot-swap bays, plus 4x 2.5" SAS hot-swap bays, total of 10 SAS H.S. drives in a 2U form factor.
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  12. #37
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    How will you put the CSE-M14 on the SC510? Looks like the SC510 only have one internal 3.5" bay, but the CSE-M14 needs one external 5.25" bay?
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  13. #38
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    If your willing to use Intels own setup, the sr1550 are nice setups, nothing like getting 8 hotswap drives into a 1u
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FHDave View Post
    How will you put the CSE-M14 on the SC510? Looks like the SC510 only have one internal 3.5" bay, but the CSE-M14 needs one external 5.25" bay?
    no, you can't. that's why I mentioned about 2U SC822/SC823 chassis.

    unfortunately, supermicro doesn't provide 5.25" bay for any 1U chassis. however, there are lots of cheap, generic 1U chassis come with 5.25" CD bay which can accommodate CSE-M14 cage, then instantly you can have 4x hot-swap SAS bays.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebNX
    If your willing to use Intels own setup, the sr1550 are nice setups, nothing like getting 8 hotswap drives into a 1u
    well, sr1550 is nice, but pretty darn expensive. unless you must have 1U to house 8 drives, then supermicro 2U 8-bay (SC825TQ) or 2U 10-bay (SC822+ CSE-M14) can be had for under $400.
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  15. #40
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    SR1550 comes with m/b right? The cheapest I have found is $399 at ebay. Pretty cheap IMHO.
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  16. #41
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    well, anything is possible on eBay, I guess...

    nope, sr1550 is just the chassis without server board. it seems that the standard configuration comes with only 6x 2.5" SAS bays, and you will need buy the optional accessories in order to use all 8-bays. intel's accessories can be outrageously expensive.....
    C.W. LEE, Apaq Digital Systems
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  17. #42
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    well, you guys asked for them, and here they come!

    supermicro just rolled out these 1U chassis (SC8113 series) with 8x 2.5" SAS hot-swap bays:
    http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/1U/?chs=113
    they come with either single 700watt or dual 650watt redund.
    C.W. LEE, Apaq Digital Systems
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwl@apaqdigital View Post
    well, you guys asked for them, and here they come!

    supermicro just rolled out these 1U chassis (SC8113 series) with 8x 2.5" SAS hot-swap bays:
    http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/1U/?chs=113
    they come with either single 700watt or dual 650watt redund.
    awesome thanks!
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