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  1. #1
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    How to get start in colocation?

    Hello,

    I need to know what should I prepare to start colocating.
    I am froom Malaysia and thinking about colocating soon.
    But since I don't have any idea of how and what should I prepare for colocating, I hold my thought first.

    So, do I need to but a server and sent it to DC? Or does all this are dealt with DC themself?

    I'm looking forward to hear what you say on this.

    Also, if you have like idiot guide for colocating, please do link me for that source.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    How many servers do you plan to have? How about the bandwidth, how many mbps? OS for servers? Can you manage servers yourself, or are you looking for a managed solution?

  3. #3
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    I'm planning to have 1 server. The bandwidth..is there an option to have unmetered bw? Something like my current host offered, fdcservers. How much bw can I fork out of 5mbit or 100mbit?
    I use PSM to manage my server. or does DC offer great support (and cheap) as well?

  4. #4
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    Hi!
    It varies from DC to DC..you'll have to ask. Some even offer to install it for you..and you just send them a server.

    If you are like me..I would start by building a database. I have three of them myself:

    1)Not terribly far away from me
    2)A pretty good drive
    3)Major roadtrip

    I break them down from there..

    Sadly..there is no idiot guide. Once I have some experience under my belt..I might make one, though.

    One thing is clear: IF you are truly serious about this..you need to spend some time here:

    http://www.cisco.com/univercd/home/home.htm

    They've had the same URL for years..and..of course..that was too easy. They are in the process of making it harder to access the documentation..so things will be redirected.

    Still..a wealth of information there about routing and switching.

    Sun does have a datacenter guide for free..just google for it.
    It's a years old..but still helpful.

    APC has a ton of documents that can help as well..that would be another stop I would recommend.

    http://www.apc.com

    >>>Do you want the server to stay in Malaysia close to you?

    Good luck!

    Bryon
    Last edited by bryonhost1; 02-05-2008 at 09:55 AM.
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  5. #5
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    I prefer server or datacenter in US since i think its more convenient for the speed.

    So, I just go to dell website, or somewhere that are experienced in colo hardware, spend some dollars and send the server to DC?

    How can I make sure the server is safe and I wouldnt get pranked?

  6. #6
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    If it is just one server and you want 5-10 Mbit/sec unmetered you're likely best keeping with dedicated servers, it will be simpler and likely cheaper in the long run. Once you start adding servers or have increased bandwidth needs, colocation may make more sense. It is never too early to begin researching though.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
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  7. #7
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    For a second I thought you were from Froom, Malaysia; you know, like Dish, Texas?

    Anyways, unless you have a special requirement that needs to have a particular hardware, there is no need to colo. Mostly I see colo makes sense when you use small amount of andwidth ut need powerful processing power ut do not want the recurring cost of the hardware, now I am talking dual quad core 146G SAS RAID10 or something along those lines. ut that a little extreme, my point is, if you are just planning to colocate a server where any dedicated server provider can offer for almost the same price as colo, then its est to go with that.

    Also like karl said, its never too early to research and dont worry if its takes a lot of time efore you make a decision, it takes time.
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  8. #8
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    I see, so colo is an option if my site getting bigger and would eat more resources? Like having big forum with 500k members or proxy network of 400?

    Well, thanks for the advise. Appreciate it so much.

    So, what are likely the price for a minimal colo specs?

    @Anantha, I am from Malaysia. Exact location is from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

  9. #9
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    Hi,

    Why not try a VMware or XEN based virtual dedicated server? It is going to be cheaper than dedicated or COLO, and it most cases will be hosted on a high end machine with many redundancies. If you don't like your host, you can move your virtual server image to another host.
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  10. #10
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    What is the diff between XEN VDS and DS?
    I am currently using FDC DS.

  11. #11
    nyunyu, you are in Malaysia and you want to have server in US? it's better to go with dedicated server then.

    in colocation if the hardware fail then you need to replace it your self or you need to pay the DC to do it for you.

    while in dedicated server, all hardware failure will be taken care by the DC.

    i thought you want to colocate on DC in cyberjaya, Malaysia. if you do want to colocate then better to colo at DC in your country, as you can go to the DC and physically maintain your server hardware.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nyunyu View Post
    What is the diff between XEN VDS and DS?
    I am currently using FDC DS.
    Xen is a VPS software/kernel which you can use to create virtual servers. DS stands for Dedicated Server, a real 1 physical server.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by markhard
    nyunyu, you are in Malaysia and you want to have server in US? it's better to go with dedicated server then.

    in colocation if the hardware fail then you need to replace it your self or you need to pay the DC to do it for you.

    while in dedicated server, all hardware failure will be taken care by the DC.

    i thought you want to colocate on DC in cyberjaya, Malaysia. if you do want to colocate then better to colo at DC in your country, as you can go to the DC and physically maintain your server hardware.
    I thought about that but afraid the connection here is kinda slow. I dont want people to complaint.


    Quote Originally Posted by markhard
    Xen is a VPS software/kernel which you can use to create virtual servers. DS stands for Dedicated Server, a real 1 physical server.
    I'm used to the terms VPS. Its the same as VDS right? I prefer DS because I got total control over it.

  14. #14
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    Yes, VDS from Xen is the same as VPS in general. Xen VPS is quite stable and we use it for one of our hosting servers. Just like you said though, DS allows you to control everything from the server perspective and you will have the full server resources available for you.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha View Post
    Anyways, unless you have a special requirement that needs to have a particular hardware, there is no need to colo. Mostly I see colo makes sense when you use small amount of andwidth ut need powerful processing power ut do not want the recurring cost of the hardware, now I am talking dual quad core 146G SAS RAID10 or something along those lines. ut that a little extreme, my point is, if you are just planning to colocate a server where any dedicated server provider can offer for almost the same price as colo, then its est to go with that.
    I don't know about special requirement. i just look at my total bills from LT(LayeredTech) from 2005 until now and i have pay out $5k for two servers without getting new hardware and little BW usage. From my point of view, i can use those $5k for new hardware for each year.

    dedicated server really shine when you don't want to deal with replacing hardware if it crap out or you want better bang for the buck with BW.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377 View Post
    I don't know about special requirement. i just look at my total bills from LT(LayeredTech) from 2005 until now and i have pay out $5k for two servers without getting new hardware and little BW usage. From my point of view, i can use those $5k for new hardware for each year.

    dedicated server really shine when you don't want to deal with replacing hardware if it crap out or you want better bang for the buck with BW.
    Well, isint that the dilemma we face?

    Pay out ONCE and colo or pay OVERTIME for dedicated?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377 View Post
    I don't know about special requirement. i just look at my total bills from LT(LayeredTech) from 2005 until now and i have pay out $5k for two servers without getting new hardware and little BW usage. From my point of view, i can use those $5k for new hardware for each year.

    dedicated server really shine when you don't want to deal with replacing hardware if it crap out or you want better bang for the buck with BW.
    Yes, one spot where going with colocation makes sense is if you have relatively high end systems and don't use much bandwidth. If say 256k/sec (about 50GB) is enough, you can easily get colo for under $100 a month, which can save you significantly long term.

    Also, don't forget, in colo the server itself is not just an expense, it is an asset. After a year that $1000 server may still be worth $600, so it really only cost you $400 for the year, not $1000. Of course that doesn't help with cash flow, but it does help people understand how colocation might make sense for them.
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  18. #18
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    In colo the server hardware maintenance is your responsability and costs good money a 24x7 service, 4-hour parts replacement, onsite hardware maintenance contract. Also you are stuck on "old" hardware few months after you bought the server.
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-07-2008 at 04:36 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nyunyu View Post
    I thought about that but afraid the connection here is kinda slow. I dont want people to complaint.

    I'm used to the terms VPS. Its the same as VDS right? I prefer DS because I got total control over it.
    if your customer base is in Malaysia, i think it's better to colo in Malaysia.

    VPS is the same with VDS.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    In colo the server hardware maintenance is your responsability and costs good money a 24x7 service, 4-hour parts replacement, onsite hardware maintenance contract. Also you are stuck on "old" hardware few months after you bought the server.
    Yes. that is true but then do you plan to cancel your dedicated server within one year and swap for a new dedicated server? Would that be a pain in the butt to migrate data each year from your current leased server to the next year leased server?

    you will probably keep your current leased server for at least two years or maybe three? after you pay the first year, the dedicated server provider already made their money back on the hardware and it's moot point from that point on so basically you're paying the BW for the next year. Then why not just pay for the BW from the start? As for onsite hardware maintenance and replacement. yes, those are important but during the 3 years with LT only once that happened where they sort of upgrade one of my server because of the hardware problem and once have to do OS reload because of Windows problem. I doubt any modern hardware have high failure rate but when it rain, it pour so i'm not dissing on your good point but from my own experience so far those service are really moot point. actually, i'm going to colo my DIY SuperMicro soon and cancel one server to see how it goes with colo and if it work out better than dedicated.

    you do end up with a aging hardware but at least you have a platform where you can do the upgrade yourself without paying additional monthly fee for extra RAM/hard disk space. You can put as much RAM/hard disk that you motherboard can handle. Those extra hardware bump can add up more than one time pay off.

    it's like lease vs owning a car. the car's value decrease as soon as you drive off the lot. The lease offer you to get a new model each year and not care for the maintenance ...etc. However, as year goes on, owning a car became cheaper as you pay off the loan and all you have left to do is doing simple car maintenance and some time you have to pay some big ticket item part replacement but all you have to do is paying gas while leasing will not only paying for the gas and dealer. you end up owning nothing in the end.

    i have a 2001 Hyundai. i have pay for maintenance and major part replacement. however, the car is pay off. i can drive it until it die then buy a new car and in between from now to that end. all i have to pay for are gas, regular maintenance. i don't have to pay the bank anymore and i own it. i can sell it off or trade in when i need to buy a new car but it's a property that i own. i think people have underestimate the power of owning your own property. it kind of free you from the shackle knowing that you have to pay someone in order to use something. i'm free to do what i want with it since i own it. all i have to do it pay the gas to keep it running or not paying for it and just sell it and get some value in return. yeah, it's not worth as much as brand new but at least i get some money back. that's the same with the server that i own. i can sell it for the second hand price or tear it down and reuse the part to build a new server. either way, i'm free to do whatever please me.

    heck, maybe i'm wrong. i'll find out as soon as i'm ready to co locate it out.

    edit: leasing a dedicated is sort like colocation if you think about it. dedicated server provider probably make back their hardware money within a year and even if you cancel it within a year. they can lease it out to someone else. either way, after one year or maybe less they make their money back or the server is pay off. so after that point. you are in the sense paying a colocated server which you do not own! if you cancel it, dedicated server provider just lease it to someone else and since they already make back the money. the only cost is BW while to you, you're still paying for the hardware. I am not trying to make dedicated server provider evil or anything. it is after i type this message out and rethink of what i type. i did kinda co locate a server which i don't own since 2005. i bet LT already make back the money on that server and from here on out i'm just paying for the BW. the maintenance and onsite replacement is like life insurance, you keep paying per month but if you're not dead. they keep it all. it's like gambling really. you're betting against the House that something will go wrong with the hardware but if it didn't then the House win big.
    Last edited by jt2377; 02-08-2008 at 06:07 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377 View Post
    Yes. that is true but then do you plan to cancel your dedicated server within one year and swap for a new dedicated server? Would that be a pain in the butt to migrate data each year from your current leased server to the next year leased server?
    Depends on what you're doing. If you are using a server to provide Web hosting to customers surely I would not like to migrate data frequently . But if you are using a server to run SaaS applications, DBMS, streaming, etc you may move to a new server as fast as a couple of minutes.

    I'm not into Web hosting. My company rents tailored made Web-based applications to big corporations via the SaaS model. We have very good experience using dedicated servers provided by data centers with lots of bandwidth from multiple Tier 1. I would never use colocation to host just one server. IMO colocation unit is rack. If you have many servers colocation makes a lot of sense and probably is the way to go due the benefits of economies of scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377 View Post
    you will probably keep your current leased server for at least two years or maybe three? after you pay the first year, the dedicated server provider already made their money back on the hardware and it's moot point from that point on so basically you're paying the BW for the next year. Then why not just pay for the BW from the start?
    The dedicated server provider pays a lot less than you for the server hardware, software, maintenance, and for connectivity. Considering just one server I think you risk pay for the colo more than you would pay to a reputable dedicated provider for a branded server and lots of premium bandwidth. I don't mind if the provider is making a lot of money as I have peace of mind and I'm making money too. In fact, in the case of my company I'm sure we make a lot of money more using the provider's services than the provider itself makes renting the server to us.


    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377 View Post
    As for onsite hardware maintenance and replacement. yes, those are important but during the 3 years with LT only once that happened where they sort of upgrade one of my server because of the hardware problem and once have to do OS reload because of Windows problem. I doubt any modern hardware have high failure rate but when it rain, it pour so i'm not dissing on your good point but from my own experience so far those service are really moot point
    Again it depends on what you're doing.
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-08-2008 at 07:36 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt2377 View Post
    edit: leasing a dedicated is sort like colocation if you think about it. dedicated server provider probably make back their hardware money within a year and even if you cancel it within a year. they can lease it out to someone else. either way, after one year or maybe less they make their money back or the server is pay off. so after that point. you are in the sense paying a colocated server which you do not own! if you cancel it, dedicated server provider just lease it to someone else and since they already make back the money. the only cost is BW while to you, you're still paying for the hardware. I am not trying to make dedicated server provider evil or anything. it is after i type this message out and rethink of what i type. i did kinda co locate a server which i don't own since 2005. i bet LT already make back the money on that server and from here on out i'm just paying for the BW. the maintenance and onsite replacement is like life insurance, you keep paying per month but if you're not dead. they keep it all. it's like gambling really. you're betting against the House that something will go wrong with the hardware but if it didn't then the House win big.
    I believe most people who wants to have dedicated server like the idea of peace of mind and support that comes with it. In our case, if a customer order dedicated server from us, we will back it up with free hardware replacement and most can be done within an hour or two. Also, you do not need to spend larger capital other than just to the monthly service to start which is a plus. It's like buying service with insurance.

    For colo, you are on your own but definitely it is cheaper until something happen with the server. At the end of the day, if you have a very good quality/stable hardware and do not require much support, colocation is the way to go. For peace of mind, dedicated wins as long as you are in good hands.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    Again it depends on what you're doing.
    That right there sums it all up. Colocation works for some people while it doesn't work well for others. It all depends on your specific needs and your specific configuration. No one can tell you what makes sense for you without all the details.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    That right there sums it all up. Colocation works for some people while it doesn't work well for others. It all depends on your specific needs and your specific configuration. No one can tell you what makes sense for you without all the details.
    of course. i'm just stating from my point of view on my situation.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rey View Post
    For peace of mind, dedicated wins as long as you are in good hands.
    those good hands want you to pay for each service that they do. it's called "dedicated" server and not fully managed.

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