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  1. #1

    problem of very costly .NET hosting ?

    i was intending to create an interactive website using ASP.NET . but when i saw the hosting prices of .NET and MS SQL Server , i noticed that it is very costly when compared to linux , PHP and MYSQL hosting .
    knowing that im able and ready to learn PHP , does it worth to do so ? or i should stay on ASP.NET and look for better hosting plans ?

    thank you

  2. #2
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    ASP.NET is really a business level thing due to the costs involved. Applications are usually not free, and practically every phase of an ASP.NET application involves money while a LAMP application is the complete opposite.

    Businesses don't mind paying as it's a relatively small amount and it is quite stable, but not so attractive for people who aren't going to get plenty of money back from the site.

    I work at a web development company and we use ASP.NET for essentially everything, but I wouldn't ever recommend it for hobbyists. Functionally you can equally satisfactory results with LAMP without the extra costs involved.

    All my opinion, of course.

  3. #3
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    What is your actual budget here? By the way .Net and MSSQL 2005 Express are free. Any there are a lot of .Net development tools which are also free so it can be used by the hobbyist.

  4. #4
    thanks Ryan for your opinion, it seems that i will go for LAMP.

    Ultima Hosts: my problem is in hosting prices. i need more than 10 gig disk space and high bandwidth since it is multtimedia website WHICH IS VERY COSTLY IN WINDOWS SERVERS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abudahim View Post

    Ultima Hosts: my problem is in hosting prices. i need more than 10 gig disk space and high bandwidth since it is multtimedia website WHICH IS VERY COSTLY IN WINDOWS SERVERS.
    That has nothing to do with it being a Windows server. The only extra cost on a Windows server is the OS license which is usually around $20 a month. Split amongst a few hundred shared clients that is probably 20 cents extra a month over LAMP. Bandwidth and disk space costs are independant of the OS you choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Hosts View Post
    By the way .Net and MSSQL 2005 Express are free. Any there are a lot of .Net development tools which are also free so it can be used by the hobbyist.
    Yes, but what about the OS? You need Windows, and it's not free. Unless you take the risk of installing mod_mono on a *nix server because it's not 100% ready yet for production IMO. And MSSQL Server needs Windows in any case.

    I think no matter what your budget is, you shouldn't take .NET because it's more expensive. If your budget is high, you take the best of the breed, and in my opinion, you can't beat languages such as PHP, Python or Perl for stability, speed and lightness. As far as databases, MySQL is really excellent, you can also use SQLite if you want the fastest DB system around. Not to mention that with these applications you can use *nix so you have more speed and stability. How many times you see server application errors on Windows servers?...

    Keep the money for any other thing. If you really want to waste your money, buy a RedHat and a MySQL subscription

  7. #7
    i have looked into many hosting companys and i found .net servers with SQL server are more costly than LAMP servers (a big difference), don't you agree mr Ultima Hosts ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by abudahim View Post
    i have looked into many hosting companys and i found .net servers with SQL server are more costly than LAMP servers (a big difference), don't you agree mr Ultima Hosts ?
    Give me the figures. We used to offer $48 a year .Net / MSSQL hosting . And that was profitable!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Hosts View Post
    Give me the figures. We used to offer $48 a year .Net / MSSQL hosting . And that was profitable!
    Most of the time there's a big difference: http://www.apollohosting.com/

    (check disk space and bw allocations also)

  10. #10
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    OK lets at least agree that bandwidth and diskspace costs are the same on LAMP as Windows servers. They can't be different . Unless all LAMP servers are being hosted in cheaper data centers on cheaper networks and for some reason the servers they are on have cheaper HDD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Hosts View Post
    OK lets at least agree that bandwidth and diskspace costs are the same on LAMP as Windows servers. They can't be different
    It depends. If the number of customers you have on a server is limited by the resources (CPU/RAM), then cost per GB is the same. This is true for most web hosts that don't oversell and who give little space and bandwidth.

    However, if you are quite generous in HDD space and BW, the number of customers per server may depend on the space and BW used, in which case the price per GB has to be more expensive on a Windows server, even if no necessarily significantly.

    Maybe the difference in cost for the company isn't just the Windows license but also the MSSQL Server license, antivirus license, firewall license, backup software, and all the closed-source applications that they have to pay for?

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    If anything its a con as people expect to pay more for Windows hosting. Actually running a Windows hosting company is really no more costly than running a LAMP one. Take it from someone who has done it for more that 2 years.

    MSSQL license varies from FREE, $65 a month or $250 a month.

    Firewall is free.
    You can always get free A/V and backup software.

    All other costs are the same between LAMP and Windows hosting companies. But if you want to pay more for Windows hosting please don't let me stop you. What you are paying for in most cases though is support and quality. Not the OS.

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    This thread looks like a non-existent problem created by a fake user. Any professional programmer knows PHP/MySQL aren't in the same league as .NET/MSSQLSERVER and many others frameworks/DBMSs.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    This thread looks like a non-existent problem created by a fake user. Any professional programmer knows PHP/MySQL aren't in the same league as .NET/MSSQLSERVER and many others frameworks/DBMSs.
    Well said. If you want to create enterprise applications PHP / MySQL aren't an option. Good for hobbyist / beginners though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Hosts View Post
    Well said. If you want to create enterprise applications PHP / MySQL aren't an option. Good for hobbyist / beginners though.
    Oh, no, I disagree, I know medium-size companies that use PHP/MySQL with RedHat EL. Companies that I know that come to mind belong to: credit check, business directories, national news agencies, raw material suppliers, attorneys. They have intranet, extranet and public portals or web sites applications developed in PHP/MySQL. Banks usually use JSP/Oracle though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calande View Post
    Oh, no, I disagree, I know medium-size companies that use PHP/MySQL with RedHat EL. Companies that I know that come to mind belong to: credit check, business directories, national news agencies, raw material suppliers, attorneys. They have intranet, extranet and public portals or web sites applications developed in PHP/MySQL. Banks usually use JSP/Oracle though.
    How do you know these companies are using MySQL?
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

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    I should add that the few large ASPX web sites that I know (national yellow pages site in my country, Orkut, Corbis, Hotmail) sometimes are slow or return internal server errors. On the other hand, large web sites that use LAMP (Digg, Slashdot, Facebook, Yahoo) are rock solid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    How do you know these companies are using MySQL?
    Because I either have had to write down quotes for them or they are my customers. I can give you some URLs in private.

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    MySQL is good for plenty of enterprise level applications, and I'm certain that will even be more true now that Sun is purchasing MySQL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by calande View Post
    I should add that the few large ASPX web sites that I know (national yellow pages site in my country, Orkut, Corbis, Hotmail) sometimes are slow or return internal server errors. On the other hand, large web sites that use LAMP (Digg, Slashdot, Facebook, Yahoo) are rock solid.

    Microsoft IIS Continues to Serve
    More Fortune 1000 Web Sites than Any Other Web Server
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bargraph_percentofmarket_Ju.gif  
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    Microsoft IIS Continues to Serve
    More Fortune 1000 Web Sites than Any Other Web Server
    As you see from that, Apache also has significant market share, which seems to prove that you can use things other than ASP to make enterprise class sites, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    MySQL is good for plenty of enterprise level applications, and I'm certain that will even be more true now that Sun is purchasing MySQL.
    ARE YOU SURE?

    MySQL 5.0 finally introduces functionality for Stored Procedures. So what exactly are stored procedures? That is the kind of question that gets database professionals who use other DBMS's raising their eyebrows. Stored procedures have been integral to Oracle, PostgreSQL, DB-2, MS-SQL server and others for years, and it has long been a sore point that MySQL has not had them. But there is no snobbery here - if you are a MySQL newbie, or have been using MySQL for years and want to find out what all the fuss is about, read on.
    http://www.databasejournal.com/featu...le.php/3525581
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    Microsoft IIS Continues to Serve
    More Fortune 1000 Web Sites than Any Other Web Server
    This is normal. There are many reasons to it. I remember talking with the CIO of the largest tire manufacturer of my country, and he said he prefered to use ASP for their web site and intranet because they had to use all the allocated money. Crazy. There are also CIOs that really prefer Microsoft for tons of reasons. CIOs are also influenced with the notorious "Get the facts" antilinux ads. And Microsoft has lots of sales power. When you hear a Microsoft sales rep for an hour selling his product, you end up thinking open-source software is for kids and you buy the FUD. I have heard people saying they use Windows Server because they trust it, and because they believe Linux doesn't work as expected, is too difficult, etc...There's a lot of misinformation out there. It's the same reason common people keep using Windows for their desktop even for online shopping, typing their credit card number, beside there are decent alternatives (OS X, openSUSE, Ubuntu...).

  24. #24
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    Yeah, when MySQL added views in v.5, it's been neat too. Actually PostgreSQL has all these features but it has a small market share for some reason. Why don't people like PostgreSQL BTW? Is it because it's a little slow, like its commercial competitors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    As you see from that, Apache also has significant market share, which seems to prove that you can use things other than ASP to make enterprise class sites, etc.

    Like Java.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post

    Am I sure about what? What is your point? I'm sorry, I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to get across there...

    We have various customers, including financial firms using MySQL. MySQL is behind various sites pushing over 1 Gbit/sec. MySQL is behind the likes of Facebook, Google, Yahoo, CraigsList, Caterpillar, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, Orbitz, Reuters, and I could go on and on. So you're saying none of those would be considered enterprise customers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    Like Java.
    Yep, but the stats you showed are useless in that regard. They don't show anything about who is using what database platforms, who is using what programming systems/languages/methods, etc. It was basically completely useless to this discussion, yet you were trying to make some kind of point with it, while I was trying to indicate that it proves absolutely nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    Yep, but the stats you showed are useless in that regard. They don't show anything about who is using what database platforms, who is using what programming systems/languages/methods, etc. It was basically completely useless to this discussion, yet you were trying to make some kind of point with it, while I was trying to indicate that it proves absolutely nothing.
    The graph was posted due the following comment which "says" only Microsoft uses Microsoft's software (Orkut,Corbis,Hotmail).

    Originally Posted by calande
    I should add that the few large ASPX web sites that I know (national yellow pages site in my country, Orkut, Corbis, Hotmail) sometimes are slow or return internal server errors. On the other hand, large web sites that use LAMP (Digg, Slashdot, Facebook, Yahoo) are rock solid.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    The graph was posted due the following comment which "says" only Microsoft uses Microsoft's software (Orkut,Corbis,Hotmail).
    So where in that does he say only Microsoft uses .Net? He gave those sites as examples of sites that do use it. I don't see anything about them being the only ones to use it or anything about the number of sites using either. Nice job trying to back-track though...
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  30. #30
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    Orkut is not Microsoft's, it's Google's. But anyway, the poster above isn't the only one who knows large companies who rely on MySQL for important data. Personally, if I had to choose between a Windows stack and a LAMP stack, I wouldn't hesitate a second and I would avoid the Windows stack. LAMP is less problematic, regardless of the price which isn't a problem for large companies. The credit check company that I know that uses MySQL and PHP has been very happy with their online web service. They aren't looking for alternatives.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    Am I sure about what? What is your point? I'm sorry, I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to get across there...
    Sorry. My point was:

    Are you sure system analysts and database programmers use in their corporate applications an immature DBMS which lacks very basic functionalities?

    Of course, there are lots of applications you can use any DBMS.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    Sorry. My point was:

    Are you sure system analysts and database programmers use in their corporate applications an immature DBMS which lacks very basic functionalities?

    Of course, there are lots of applications you can use anything, including Access.
    MSSQL Server is a mature and solid application. No doubt about it. But it's not better than PostgreSQL or (now) MySQL.

    Stored procedures, triggers, or views, that MySQL was missing are not "basic" functionalities in a RDBS, they are not used in basic programming. But anyway, all players are now on the same level. And for those who really want to pay, go purchase a MySQL subscription, that's it

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    Sorry. My point was:

    Are you sure system analysts and database programmers use in their corporate applications an immature DBMS which lacks very basic functionalities?

    Of course, there are lots of applications you can use any DBMS.
    The article you posted said that MySQL did have that functionality. It even says that functionality was added almost two and a half years ago, as that is about as old as MySQL 5.0 is... How does that demonstrate it lacks basic functionalities? You're saying having a feature for 2.5 years instead of 5+ years is a major difference?
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    I think the comments speak for themselves.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  35. #35
    wow , this is a hot forum

    i got a quick question here: since LAMP hosting is better in pricing, performance and relaiabilty (or at least for those who says that) than windows hosting, in what case i should go or recommend someone to go for windows hosting.

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    The busiest website on earth, myspace.com, with over 1.5 billion page views per day, runs on asp.net 2.0.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abudahim View Post
    i got a quick question here: since LAMP hosting is better in pricing, performance and relaiabilty (or at least for those who says that) than windows hosting, in what case i should go or recommend someone to go for windows hosting.


    Once again you posted a non-existent problem.

    No serious user needs this kind of recommendation to decide operating system, DBMS, programming language, etc as this decision results from system requirement analysis, staff experience, previous investments, project time-cost tradeoff, and many others factors.
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-02-2008 at 06:23 AM.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwannasite View Post
    The busiest website on earth, myspace.com, with over 1.5 billion page views per day, runs on asp.net 2.0.
    Thanks for the information. I found some additional data:

    MySpace.com handles 2.3 million concurrent users during the day

    MySpace.com’s average server CPU utilization went from 85% to 27% after moving (from another technology) to ASP.NET 2.0
    P.S. In case you were wondering, the top-6 domains in terms of page-views in February/2006 according to Media Metrix were: 1) Yahoo, 2) MySpace, 3) MSN, 4) Ebay, 5) Google, and 6) Hotmail.

    P.P.S. 4 of the top 6 sites (MySpace, MSN, Ebay and Hotmail) run on IIS and Windows. J


    http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archi...25/441074.aspx
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-02-2008 at 06:26 AM.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by dotHostel View Post
    Once again you posted a non-existent problem.

    No serious user needs this kind of recommendation to decide operating system, DBMS, programming language, etc as this decision results from system requirement analysis, staff experience, previous investments, project time-cost tradeoff, and many others factors.

    when a newbie asks, that doesn't mean he is not serious.
    i just want an idea, im not going to build a business website. it is just hobby.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by abudahim View Post
    when a newbie asks, that doesn't mean he is not serious.
    There is nothing to do with newbie or not. I'm using "serious" to refer someone who needs a system/site to run his/her core business.

    Quote Originally Posted by abudahim View Post
    i just want an idea, im not going to build a business website. it is just hobby.
    Short answer: You can't recommend a solution before knowing each aspect of the problem.

    If all you have is a hammer - everything looks like a nail
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-02-2008 at 07:33 AM.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

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