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  1. #1
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    Small companies Far datacenters

    How do small companies deal with data centers and their equipment being 1000-2000 miles away?

    NYC puts the costs of cabinet and power at almost twice as much in comparison to the west coast and south.

    For small businesses, is it worth to spend that extra to get a cab in NYC and be able to manage their clients hardware directly or have a cabinet far away and depend on the on site techs to take care of all hardware related issues and save spending that extra that is put on cabinet and power?

    What other options are there?
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  2. #2
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    You can always resell servers then you take the hardware management out of the picture. Not to mention the expense of buying the gear.
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  3. #3
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    Well, we cant depend on other provider's hardware quality and promise our clients of having top notch hardware. We need quality in hardware as well, not just network. We've been using HP from the beginning and that is what we want to continue with. The only way we can do that is to colocate.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  4. #4
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    Why NYC and not other locations less expensive?

  5. #5
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    Cause I live closest to NYC, heh, thats the dilemma.

    Get cheaper power far away and depend on the speed of the on site tech to support your client OR get expensive power in NYC and be able to support hardware related issues faster.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  6. #6
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    Best bet would be to have both options alive, NYC and dallas/west coast.
    supply what your customers want. Yes near hardware access is a good thing, But I believe its not a very big plus if its a small venture right now, and you plan to buy all server grade equipment.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woooo View Post
    Best bet would be to have both options alive, NYC and dallas/west coast.
    supply what your customers want. Yes near hardware access is a good thing, But I believe its not a very big plus if its a small venture right now, and you plan to buy all server grade equipment.
    I am not sure I understand your post...

    Having hardware near to the business is not a big plus for small business because.....how? and how is it different from buying or not buying server grade equipment?
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha View Post
    I am not sure I understand your post...

    Having hardware near to the business is not a big plus for small business because.....how? and how is it different from buying or not buying server grade equipment?
    Sorry for confusion, since its a new venture I assumed it does not have additional staff to go to DC all time for handling the machines, Plus you seem concerned about equipment quality So less prone to hardware problems. This is why a DC near with high power/racspace costs seems not s big plus to me.



  9. #9
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    Ah! I see. OK, I guess that makes sense.

    But the question of "What if....?" is still in my mind say if something happens, heh.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  10. #10
    You could get an inexpensive KVM over IP switch and if you have remote reboot capability the only real reason to physically be at the machine is in case of hardware failure.

    You should look into the Philly market. Prices are much less expensive and its only an hour and a half from NYC in case of a dire emergency.
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  11. #11
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    Philly and NYC, as far as power goes I dont see a significant difference to be honest. Both markets have quoted me in the same area. But when I ask them for a quote in their dallas and lax area, they quoted me for significantly less for power and cabinet. Sometimes the power+cabinet was even less than just the cabinet cost in NYC, now this is the SAME provider, just in different markets.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  12. #12
    Who have you been speaking with in Philly? I know for a fact that power is far less than NYC.
    Matt Kelly
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  13. #13
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    If you are going all-HP and buying the iLO remote access licenses, it may well make sense to go out of NYC, especially if you can do the initial setup of the hardware in your office and then ship it to the colo facility.

    That said, prices in NJ and PA are much less than in NYC and it is less than 3 hours' drive from where you are, so if you are getting the same pricing from your provider something is wrong.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha View Post
    Well, we cant depend on other provider's hardware quality and promise our clients of having top notch hardware. We need quality in hardware as well, not just network. We've been using HP from the beginning and that is what we want to continue with. The only way we can do that is to colocate.
    There are dedicated hosting companies that offer top notch hardware. Many opt for less expensive Dells and Supermicros, as it is difficult to convey the value of top quality hardware, when it is the host and not the customer that is responsible for maintaining the hardware.

    As for colo, the what if situations can be covered by remote hands and/or kvm over ip rentals. You can also find a third party tech local to your data center. It should be easy enough to have the data center or tech verify whether the issue is hardware related, and then have HP come on-site if your warranty covers it.

    If you're really that worried though, managed colo can also be an option.
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  15. #15
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    Well, either way, good quality hardware = overall customer satisfaction. They might not know the value of it, but they know that their applications need to be online 24/7.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  16. #16
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    We are about 4,000 miles away from our datacenter. We have a KVMoIP pre-configured, and we can ask remote-hands to plug it into any server that needs it. We keep servers on standby in case a server fails (cold standby). All our servers are RAID1+1, which means 2 out of 3 drives can fail and the server will still run. Then once a year I visit and swap out any failed drives, fix broken servers, etc.

    One of these days I plan to look at business continuity insurance. The goal will be to have that cover the cost of a last-minute plane ticket to our datacenter ($5k in dire situations), and some replacement server hardware.

  17. #17
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    Yea, I have KVMoIP, APC, RAID1 (well may be not RAID1+1), Cold Standby as well. But still...I guess there is that fear of putting all your trust on an on site tech....is that normal?
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha View Post
    Yea, I have KVMoIP, APC, RAID1 (well may be not RAID1+1), Cold Standby as well. But still...I guess there is that fear of putting all your trust on an on site tech....is that normal?

    IMO, no it is not normal.

    I think so called "quality" server is not a replacement for redundancy. You still have a single point of failure. And your off site tech is another point of failure as well.

    If you want better uptime I guess you need more a hardware balancing solution using 2 "cheap" servers than one stand-alone "quality" server.

    E.g. Softlayer offer Supermicro servers with dedicated KVMoIP as standard. You may connect 2 of these servers to their load balancer and use iSCSI to share data (or many other options). If a server goes down you may check via KVM while the other server is taking care of the traffic. If it is a hardware issue, SL has a 4h maximum SLA to repair. And of course SL has zillions of spare parts onsite.

    I'm talking Softlayer because I'm a former (satisfied) customer and know a bit their infrastructure but I'm sure there are many others reputable companies offering good solutions.
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-01-2008 at 04:49 PM.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  19. #19
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    Actually, I meant the fear of letting an on site tech handle your hardware, heh.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha View Post
    Actually, I meant the fear of letting an on site tech handle your hardware, heh.
    Have enough spares that you don't need them, and budget for a once-a-year trip to do any necessary work on your own. It's not expensive to fly there if you plan ahead.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameeriklane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha View Post
    Actually, I meant the fear of letting an on site tech handle your hardware, heh.
    Have enough spares that you don't need them, and budget for a once-a-year trip to do any necessary work on your own. It's not expensive to fly there if you plan ahead.
    Talking about taking a plane to fix a server sounds crazy as the main objective is just to provide a service with minimum downtime. I bet any cheap server offered by a reputable company would have a better uptime.
    Last edited by dotHostel; 02-01-2008 at 06:31 PM.
    You will only find out how good a provider is when the going gets tough

  22. #22
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    I dont think its normal, to be honest most DC techs are going to be as good if not better at handling hardware then yourself.

    I do see occasional customers come in with 1 server - their entire business is on that one server, and they treat it like one of the bombs you cant even tilt a little. Walk very very slowly.

    As the customer grows to about 10 servers, he starts carrying 1us under his arm. By his 100th server, hes tossing the boxes out of the back of his car onto a cart
    Jordan Jacobs | VP, Products|SingleHop| JJ @SingleHop.com
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  23. #23
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    I can understand that. But this is the my first or 10th servers, but I guess the first time "thinking" of using a data center far off.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  24. #24
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    Far off is no problem, i used to colocate from more far then u can imagine.
    If you are going to do offer at WHT, keep in mind you need cheapest possible options always alive, because the biggest market segment wants that.



  25. #25
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    The easiest solution that I can see would be to colocate just outside of the Burroughs. NAC.net @ Parsippany, NJ; CRNC.net; Voxel.net; Ubiquity all offer colocation in the NYC / NYC area.

  26. #26
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    Manhattan and Staten Island are not part of the Burroughs? cause CRNC, Voxel and Ubiquity are in one of those places.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  27. #27
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    Use good quality hardware, do a remote management type of system then put the good warranty on it from the manufacture. Dell, HP or IBM 4 hour onsite works well. Use a KVM/IP based solution and a switcher so that you can get to each machine. You shouldn't have any problems, I have a rack in San Fran that I haven't visited in three years.
    Linn Boyd

  28. #28
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    I think when it comes to smaller companies, smaller colo facilities tend to fill a niche of personal service, and remote hand assistance that really negates the disadvantage of being far away from your gear. Assuming you find the right mix of service and personal attention, I think you will find it does not matter if you are 1 mile away or 10,000 miles away.
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