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  1. #1
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    Dathorn [issues]

    I have a hosting account with Dathorn. I run a game server (not on my web server!) and just set up Psychostats for it on my Dathorn account. Psychostats is probably the first or second most popular server statistcs software out there for Counter-Strike, it's pretty standard software.

    I set up a cron job to run the stats software once each hour. Dathorn had the gall to delete my command and replace it with: echo "Processing game server stats on our shared hosting servers is strictly prohibited."

    At no time during the sign up process was I notified of this. What kind of recourse do I have? I'm sure that the software isn't using up much processing power, but is there any way to get these server Nazis to understand that and respect me as a customer?

    Also, does anyone know of some Dathorn competitors with similar features that also have cheap ClientExec (or some competing product) licenses?
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  2. #2
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    Maybe it is included in their TOS that they do not allow this?


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  3. #3
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    I checked the TOS when I signed up for anything about this kind of situation, because one of the reasons I got the account was to have the stats on it.

    There is no section which says anything at all about game server stats software being prohibited.
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  4. #4
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    They won't list all of the banned software, but they will list categories. I don't have experience with this particular software, but I'll have to look at it.

    It may fall under #14 of the AUP.

    14 - Network disruptions and unfriendly activity:
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  5. #5
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    Any way if they say, it is their policy, I think you don't have much to do other than looking for a new host.
    Next time, ask the presales regarding this before you sign up so there won't happen something like this in middle..
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  6. #6
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    Psychostats is pretty common. I know of free hosts which let you use it. It never occurred to me to ask about it before I signed up because it is so common.
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  7. #7
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    Cisco, as I've noted in your ticket with us, and to clarify for everyone else, we do not have a problem with being the web hosting provider for the actual Psychostats output. What we have a problem with is the actual processing of the game server log files to calculate this data. This sort of activity can easily and unnecessarily cause performance problems on the server.

    Given that it is a shared hosting environment, we have to act in the best interest of everyone on the server. We monitor our servers very closely and work very hard to make sure that our servers are performing as best they can.

    Allow me to offer a bit of data regarding this situation:

    You tested this log processing script 4 separate times this afternoon between 2:00PM and 2:03PM CST as was captured by our process logging. Each of these ran for over one minute and spiked server loads from ~0.80 to 3.18; which then took quite a while to subside back to normal. The average load on this particular server for the past 24 hours has been 0.89-0.92. You set the max load over the past 24 hours with this activity along with the max CPU usage (90.0%).

    With a VPS or dedicated server this kind of activity really isn't so much of a problem as long as you acknowledge the impact that it may have on performance. In a shared hosting environment, its just not something that we can allow. We wouldn't allow 10 customers to do this on our shared servers so we aren't going to allow 1 either.
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  8. #8
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    Dathorn_ADT, it would be great if you would refrain from posting information specifically about me in a public forum.

    Also, nothing you say will make me believe that Psychostats uses up massive amounts of CPU resources. It is very standard software that I have used on several other hosts without any problems.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Dathorn_ADT, it would be great if you would refrain from posting information specifically about me in a public forum.

    Also, nothing you say will make me believe that Psychostats uses up massive amounts of CPU resources. It is very standard software that I have used on several other hosts without any problems.
    In all fairness, you did call them "Nazi's". Maybe try your luck with a different host?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Tullock View Post
    In all fairness, you did call them "Nazi's". Maybe try your luck with a different host?
    It seems like I should have been more specific and called them the Gestapo. They followed me all the way to WHT. As for a different host, I'm looking into that right now.
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  11. #11
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    Dathorn_ADT, it would be great if you would refrain from posting information specifically about me in a public forum.
    It looks to me like he was detailing the issue and their reasoning behind the decision, not judging you as a person or sharing personally identifiable information.
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  12. #12
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    If you didn't want to know the reason for your problem, why post on a public forum? If you didn't want them to provide specific detail, than you shouldn't have posted specific details of their actions against you. If you would have told the whole story, than maybe they wouldn't have had to reply.
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  13. #13
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    I did know the reason for the problem... that is WHY I posted on a public forum. I didn't want them to provide any details about me because they have no right to. I can say whatever I want about myself. I did tell the whole story... they can reply if they want to.
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  14. #14
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    They have a right to defend themselves when someone is trying to defame them. They didn't post any sensitive data (i.e., domains). They simply posted information about the server that they own and operate.
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  15. #15
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    Don't throw words like "defame" around unless you know what they mean.
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  16. #16
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    Well you jumped on a forum and decided to call them Nazis, I think any company has a right to defend themselves at that point.

    With the information posted, it seems well within reason that they would have prevented you from carrying this script out. In a shared environment, they have to draw the line.
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  17. #17
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    Cisco, you really need to get a VPS to parse the stats. Every host will take the same action as Dathorn if you do the same on a shared hosting account.
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  18. #18
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    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look in the dictionary, I know what it means so I can "throw" it around when i see fit. You are stating that "Dathorn Sucks". Not to mention they are "Gestapo" and "Nazis" You said this to hurt their business.
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  19. #19
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    I can't believe you called a company "Nazis" because you tried to run a log processing software on shared hosting. I don't care what your past experiences are, thats almost never OK.

    Why didn't you stick with the free host that let you suck up server resources to run a script that should be on a dedicated server?

    Dathorn, bravo for keeping cool. There should be an IQ test before signing up hosting clients.
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  20. #20
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    I gotta give it to him, this guy has balls, big brass ones.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyTech View Post
    Well you jumped on a forum and decided to call them Nazis, I think any company has a right to defend themselves at that point.

    With the information posted, it seems well within reason that they would have prevented you from carrying this script out. In a shared environment, they have to draw the line.
    I was upset that the first time I was informed that game server stats software was prohibited was through a message that they replaced my cron job command with. Also, they failed to give me any information about exactly how much of the server resources I was using.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenos View Post
    Cisco, you really need to get a VPS to parse the stats. Every host will take the same action as Dathorn if you do the same on a shared hosting account.
    The log files are small. They're for a game server that gets low traffic. The amount of processing that the stats software needs just isn't that big. What I might end up doing is set up the game server to do the processing and write a script to copy it over to the web server. A typical Psychostats installation isn't set up to do that, and for my specific situation shouldn't really be necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by taylorwilsdon View Post
    I can't believe you called a company "Nazis" because you tried to run a log processing software on shared hosting. I don't care what your past experiences are, thats almost never OK.

    Why didn't you stick with the free host that let you suck up server resources to run a script that should be on a dedicated server?

    Dathorn, bravo for keeping cool. There should be an IQ test before signing up hosting clients.
    I called them "server Nazis", not "Nazis". I don't think the Nazis had servers.

    I didn't stick with the free host for the same reason that every paying web hosting customer doesn't use a free host... Also I didn't suck up server resources to run a script that should be on a dedicated server. I used a marginal amount of server resources to run a script that fit in perfectly.

    I don't think an IQ test would accomplish anything profitable, and it would probably cut out a lot of their customer base.
    Last edited by Cisco; 01-12-2008 at 12:26 AM.
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  22. #22
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    Note to self: When you want to bash somebody 1. don't call them nazys and 2. when they come to defend themselves don't call it "private information about me" as it will ruin your credibility.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Dathorn_ADT, it would be great if you would refrain from posting information specifically about me in a public forum.

    Also, nothing you say will make me believe that Psychostats uses up massive amounts of CPU resources. It is very standard software that I have used on several other hosts without any problems.
    As someone who is very familiar with Psychostats and Valve/Steam game hosting, I can attest that the parsing of logs for Psychostats does indeed cause quite a bit of CPU load.
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  24. #24
    I completely agree with DatHorn on this one.. You can't claim they suck just cause, they won't allow you to host your game stats..
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  25. #25
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    I doubt too many of the quality shared hosting providers on this board would allow their clients to run a load intensive process such as the parsing of game server logs. Why should 99% of the clients on that server endure slow downs so that you can run your script?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PE-Dave View Post
    I doubt too many of the quality shared hosting providers on this board would allow their clients to run a load intensive process such as the parsing of game server logs. Why should 99% of the clients on that server endure slow downs so that you can run your script?
    I completely agree, Dave.

    I find it amusing how so many people confuse "web hosting" with "my own personal dedicated server".

    Folks, this is "web hosting talk", not "where can I find cpu cycles to process game server logs" or "where can I start my own facebook" for five bucks.

    It seems there is a HUGE gap between reason and stupidity here.

    Do you honestly think any webhost who is worth $10 a month is going to let you use more than $10 worth of resources?

    Rhetorical question -
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAGU-Jeffrey View Post
    I completely agree with DatHorn on this one.. You can't claim they suck just cause, they won't allow you to host your game stats..
    There's more to it than that. I think they suck for several reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by PE-Dave View Post
    I doubt too many of the quality shared hosting providers on this board would allow their clients to run a load intensive process such as the parsing of game server logs. Why should 99% of the clients on that server endure slow downs so that you can run your script?
    According to Dathorn's policy, I wouldn't be allowed to run the script on a 1 line log file. Are you saying that the other clients on the server would have to endure a slowdown because of that?

    Also, if your logic is how things really are, I don't think I should have to endure slow downs because of the other clients' image files. They should be forced to use text only! Their image files are causing unnecessary slowdowns on my site.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Dathorn_ADT, it would be great if you would refrain from posting information specifically about me in a public forum.
    I'm confused, what information did they post about you? They posted information about your actions on their servers. Like others said, if you don't want them to post about what you're doing then don't post on a public forum. They have every right to come on here and defend their actions as you have the right to come on here and post about them -- when there is a valid reason to as may be now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Also, nothing you say will make me believe that Psychostats uses up massive amounts of CPU resources.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dathorn_ADT View Post
    Each of these ran for over one minute and spiked server loads from ~0.80 to 3.18; which then took quite a while to subside back to normal.
    So, I guess either they're lying, or someone else caused that 2+ plus spike?
    Quote Originally Posted by PersonalJihad View Post
    As someone who is very familiar with Psychostats and Valve/Steam game hosting, I can attest that the parsing of logs for Psychostats does indeed cause quite a bit of CPU load.
    And now we have third party confirmation that it does cause CPU load.

    Sorry, but when people complain and then say "don't come over here and defend yourself" I get a bit testy.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Also, if your logic is how things really are, I don't think I should have to endure slow downs because of the other clients' image files. They should be forced to use text only! Their image files are causing unnecessary slowdowns on my site.
    Might as well just leave logic out of this, no sense bring it out now...

    Can you see a relation between image files and "web hosting"?

    Can you see a relation between gamer server log parsing and "web hosting"?

    You have confused web hosting with something else.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Also, if your logic is how things really are, I don't think I should have to endure slow downs because of the other clients' image files. They should be forced to use text only! Their image files are causing unnecessary slowdowns on my site.
    First of all, that is a terrible analogy as serving images and running a script that generates stats is entirely different. Second, if it doesn't slow down the server, why not use your game server to process the logs?
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven99 View Post
    I'm confused, what information did they post about you? They posted information about your actions on their servers. Like others said, if you don't want them to post about what you're doing then don't post on a public forum. They have every right to come on here and defend their actions as you have the right to come on here and post about them -- when there is a valid reason to as may be now.

    So, I guess either they're lying, or someone else caused that 2+ plus spike? And now we have third party confirmation that it does cause CPU load.

    Sorry, but when people complain and then say "don't come over here and defend yourself" I get a bit testy.
    The Dathorn employee mentioned the trouble ticket I had opened.

    The Dathorn guy also didn't say anything about the server specs. If he's running the server on an old 386 then that 2+ spike means a lot less than if it's running on a modern server. And that third party confirmation means what exactly? It has nothing to do with my specific situation.

    Also, I never told Dathorn "don't come over her and defend yourself."

    Quote Originally Posted by PE-Dave View Post
    First of all, that is a terrible analogy as serving images and running a script that generates stats is entirely different. Second, if it doesn't slow down the server, why not use your game server to process the logs?
    I think that they are similar in that I don't want the other customers to be allowed to use images.

    I didn't use the game server because that isn't how Psychostats is designed to be used, unless the game server is the same server as the web server. It looks like I may end up doing that though.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    According to Dathorn's policy, I wouldn't be allowed to run the script on a 1 line log file. Are you saying that the other clients on the server would have to endure a slowdown because of that?
    Okay, so if a host gives someone special treatment, by bending policies or ignoring them, then you're fine with that? So, then what if they did that and then you asked for that same thing and they said "no"? You'd be upset right? Exactly. That is what they are trying to prevent so that no special treatments are done. Doesn't matter if it was a one line log file or a 10,000,000 line log file, it is still against policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    Also, if your logic is how things really are, I don't think I should have to endure slow downs because of the other clients' image files. They should be forced to use text only! Their image files are causing unnecessary slowdowns on my site.
    Then you shouldn't have any images your self.

    If you don't like sharing, which is apparent, get a dedicated server.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven99 View Post
    Okay, so if a host gives someone special treatment, by bending policies or ignoring them, then you're fine with that? So, then what if they did that and then you asked for that same thing and they said "no"? You'd be upset right? Exactly. That is what they are trying to prevent so that no special treatments are done. Doesn't matter if it was a one line log file or a 10,000,000 line log file, it is still against policy.
    Then you shouldn't have any images your self.

    If you don't like sharing, which is apparent, get a dedicated server.
    If a policy doesn't make sense in a certain situation then of course it should be bent or ignored.

    I love sharing. I think everyone on the server should have game server statistics software.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    The Dathorn employee mentioned the trouble ticket I had opened.
    Fair enough, but he didn't mention a ticket number, an email, ete...? He was giving context. As for your other comments in that post, I'll give you those just so I can exit this thread. Bye.
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  35. #35
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    This thread "sucks".

    The simple fact that you thought you could use a shared web hosting account to process log files for an external server makes the entire thread, stupid.

    The thread title should be changed.

    Dathorn should NOT be exposed to this ID 10 T error in Google or any other source.

    Dathorn is an innocent bystander in a WHT suicide.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial Web Host View Post
    Only problem with your 'logic' is that you'd be here complaining about the host not having enough power to process everyones log files.
    One last post before I go... that and/or complaining that they wouldn't allow files at x size or that you found out that z person was able to process y size but they canned you because you tried to process y size.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
    I think that they are similar in that I don't want the other customers to be allowed to use images.
    Sending out an image file takes not more processing power then sending out a text/html file of the same size. That's the issue here. Abuse of processing power.

    Your analogy and reasoning still doesn't fit. Change your analogy to something regarding CGIs or form processing and it begins to make more sence.

    In any case, they've clearly stated that if any user was running a CGI which was taking up a large amount of resources then it would be canned as well.

    I do think their response and method of dealing with the situation was poor, but your actions and replies here really made me not have any sympathy for you.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave View Post
    Sending out an image file takes not more processing power then sending out a text/html file of the same size. That's the issue here. Abuse of processing power.

    Your analogy and reasoning still doesn't fit. Change your analogy to something regarding CGIs or form processing and it begins to make more sence.
    I still don't think they should be allowed to use images, those greedy pigs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave View Post
    I do think their response and method of dealing with the situation was poor, but your actions and replies here really made me not have any sympathy for you.
    Aw shucks, I was really holding out for it.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial Web Host View Post
    Dathorn is an innocent bystander in a WHT suicide.
    Based on the fact that Dathorn is posting links to this thread in another post of mine on WHT... I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one.
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  40. #40
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    As you have another thread looking for recommendations for another host, we'll close this one up.
    If you don’t like the road you’re walking on, start paving a new one.
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