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  1. #1

    Post Could Global Warming Push Hosting costs up ?

    I live in the Uk and one of our largest power companys has just announce a 17% increase in its pricing for gas and electricity apparently because of the increase cost that they are buying these fuels at.

    With Global warming and fossil fuels could a combination of things including fossil fules running out and even some companies factoring in extra cost for " green " power, Could we see not only colo costs rise but the same for leasing and therefor see a general increase in Hosting prices altogether because of this ?

    17% is quite a bit if you imagine your server bill or colo bill going up by that much and this is just the start.

    I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions.
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  2. #2
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    tendencies which we have today in web hosting market say that prices going to be lower
    Servers become cheaper+competition with oversold hosts move web hosting companies to reduce prices.
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  3. #3
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    Mine went up 30% to 50% and there is no indication anytime soon that it will go down. More likely than not, it will be up. Hosting is really a tough game, in one hand decreasing prices and on the other increasing costs.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by boonchuan View Post
    Mine went up 30% to 50% and there is no indication anytime soon that it will go down. More likely than not, it will be up. Hosting is really a tough game, in one hand decreasing prices and on the other increasing costs.
    exactly - the cost of power is rising dramatically pretty much across the board.

    I think you will see dedicated server prices rise - but, I imagine shared hosting will countinue on with its current trend

  5. #5
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    Buy green hosting
    The price of wind, solar and geothermal energy shouldn't fluctuate.

  6. #6
    I agree, I think dedicated's will rise, but shared will probably continue in it's same path. I do think though that you might see additional accounts per server though in an attempt to keep the same profit per server. So you might find loads a little higher than normal.
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  7. #7
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    or setup your servers in iceland. Energy is virtually free in Iceland because of all the geothermal hotspots there.
    ...bw might be a small problem though
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  8. #8
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    I never thought that cow farts could a be part of web hosting price raise...

  9. #9
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    I would be curious to know the amount of C02 is rejected by the average human being in a life time. Just a round trip between Rio de Janeiro and Europe is 4 tons of C02 per person...

  10. #10
    i think it is outrageous that this company can increase the cost of Power by 17%. this is a continuing trend by the uk power suppliers they increase their prices by sum 20% year after year.. so hosting in the uk will inevitably become ridiculous.

    So looks like im going to have to buy a few wind turbines! and the thought that Euro-star saying that every trip made by train is carbon neutral is utter rubbish.

  11. #11
    Well we mustn't forget that datacentres buy a lot of power and probably get good pricing, but it is going to rise and if the cost of dedicateds servers rise I can see at least some hosts ( probably the mid level ones with the budget ones fighting on price and the high end ones having enough in their margins to eat the cost) raising their prices.

    I'm sure as the USA and other countries really get into double digits of their national power being generated by renewable sources it should ease the burden.
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  12. #12
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    What does this have to do with global warming?


    Anyways, Intel and AMD are always coming up with new efficient low power chips, so I don't think prices will raise. Power prices go up, but newer servers use less power and get more done. Think about it, we have Woodcrest chips that are 4x as fast as a P4 and use half the wattage.


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by devonblzx View Post
    Anyways, Intel and AMD are always coming up with new efficient low power chips, so I don't think prices will raise. Power prices go up, but newer servers use less power and get more done. Think about it, we have Woodcrest chips that are 4x as fast as a P4 and use half the wattage.
    Yeah, but, then you have redundant power supplies (because no one wants to go down for a few minutes if 1 fails) and suddenly you are using the same amount of power again

    Quote Originally Posted by calande View Post
    Buy green hosting
    The price of wind, solar and geothermal energy shouldn't fluctuate.
    except for certain areas (someone mentioned Iceland), geothermal isnt always plausible. As for other alternative fuel sources - one doesnt really exist. What is typically done is that the bit of solar power generated or even wind power is sent back to the grid for a credit - and dont get me wrong, every little bit does certainly help, but, its not like the technology exists to allow a DC to run "green". it may run 5% or maybe even 10% green (which is definately better then 0% "green", no argument there) - but, end of the day, most of its power is coming from traditional fuel sources and pretty much 100% guaranteed, they are still using diesel generators for emergency, backup power...

  14. #14
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    Yes but if a DC is carbon-neutral, it means that if their energy uses fossil energy, they pay the difference in credits that are used to "fight" global warming (ie: tree plantations, construction of wind turbine farms, etc...). In the end, the money they contribute reduce the amount of C02 in the atmosphere and they are carbon-neutral. The more they pollute, the more they pay.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by calande View Post
    Yes but if a DC is carbon-neutral, it means that if their energy uses fossil energy, they pay the difference in credits that are used to "fight" global warming (ie: tree plantations, construction of wind turbine farms, etc...). In the end, the money they contribute reduce the amount of C02 in the atmosphere and they are carbon-neutral. The more they pollute, the more they pay.
    Hi Calande,

    I hear what you are saying, but, Carbon credits are not the answer - they do not actually produce anything beneficial... eitherway, it is the thought that counts - and before any reasonable action is taken, the thoughts need to be there first - so, I would agree - it is better then nothing - but, lets not call them green for these efforts. Using wind or solar power is certainly green - and hopefully we come up with better fuel sources moving forward that we can all benefit from short term and long term - even if that means increased costs in the short term...

  16. #16
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    Global warming is worrying in itself, but it is the energy penury that we're heading to, that can leave us at nature's will.

    Energy prices will rise, and will drive all prices up, unless we (and by that I mean mostly the governments and enterprises) do what it takes to find a reasonable replacements to our current energy sources. Rising hosting prices should be the least of our worries.

  17. #17
    Prices of elec/gas are rising in our uk due to our increasing dependacy on gas for our power stations being piped in from abroad. The UK government needs to act now and start getting some more nuclear powered stations built so we wont be dependant on gas from abroad any more and prices can go back down again.
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  18. #18
    That is ONE way to see it. What goes the complete opposite way is HOW the servers are utilized today. With virtualization becoming a BIG part of the hosting industry and with servers being used at 70% to 80% instead of 20% to 30%, it still goes towards web hosting being cheaper as less servers are needed in order to do the same, if not better, job.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by gogax View Post
    That is ONE way to see it. What goes the complete opposite way is HOW the servers are utilized today. With virtualization becoming a BIG part of the hosting industry and with servers being used at 70% to 80% instead of 20% to 30%, it still goes towards web hosting being cheaper as less servers are needed in order to do the same, if not better, job.
    The only real issue with that logic is that servers draw more power when being used at 70% or 80% then they do when being run at 20% or 30%. Additionally, they generate more heat, which means more power consumption used in cooling and ventilation. Virtualization does not necessarily reduce the number of servers being used, though it probably does change the way those servers are being used...

  20. #20
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    intel / AMD really need to step it up again... the cpus are not enough... we also need to get the south bridge and north bridge makers to make low voltage versions as they sometimes take more power than the cpus...
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bizness View Post
    intel / AMD really need to step it up again... the cpus are not enough... we also need to get the south bridge and north bridge makers to make low voltage versions as they sometimes take more power than the cpus...
    Yes, I have also found that Blades do a much better job of conserving power. Depending on the blade chasis, you have 4 power supplies for 10 servers with complete redundancy. Our blade chasis, stacked with 10 servers with complete redundancy to power use less power then 8 dual xeon 1U servers with non redundant power...

  22. #22
    not considerably enough at all. We have made the switch from many independent servers to virtualized ones and saw a big drop in power consumption while keeping the same level of reliability. In fact, even that was better as you get many tools for recovery, easy backups etc...

    I mean, there is a reason why the hosting industry is going towards virtualization.

  23. #23
    Shouldn't global warming mean that solar energy will be much more efficient than in the past?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjaonline View Post
    Shouldn't global warming mean that solar energy will be much more efficient than in the past?
    But adding solar panels is still an expense. Just think of if you had to add solar panels to your own home. It's an added expense, but will cut your power bills over the coming years.
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  25. #25
    Exactly my point. Considering that oil prices are on the rise, shouldn't everyone be considering how much money is saved by using Solar panels (in the long run ofcourse) and how solar power is an unlimited source of energy

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by gogax View Post
    I mean, there is a reason why the hosting industry is going towards virtualization.
    the hosting industry is not "moving towards" virtualization. Virtualization does provide some interesting alternatives and has made things more interesting. But, it certainly isnt new - and in the years that it has been sold to enterprise clients, it certainly hasnt replaced the traditional "physical node" model in enterprise environments. It is true that with more and more massively oversold shared environments, virtualization is gaining a strong foothold as an intermediary technology in shared hosting - not sure it should be there - but, none the less, it seems to have found a niche there... on the other hand, companies like 3Terra with Applogic have taken virtualization to a new level - but, their whole model is to duplicate data across several virtual nodes, so, end of the day, not sure you are reducing the number of physical servers used, rather, you are just changing how you use them...
    Last edited by cartika-andrew; 01-04-2008 at 11:52 PM.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by kjaonline View Post
    Exactly my point. Considering that oil prices are on the rise, shouldn't everyone be considering how much money is saved by using Solar panels (in the long run ofcourse) and how solar power is an unlimited source of energy
    ok - someone please educate me here - as I am not up to date on my solar panel technology. But, wasnt the problem with these things that they didnt generate enough power + the cost of implementation and the cost of replacing those panels meant you couldnt even break even on them over the long haul? hopefully things have changed, but, again, totally ignorant on this topic - anyone got any real numbers behind these things?

  28. #28
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    But, wasnt the problem with these things that they didnt generate enough power + the cost of implementation and the cost of replacing those panels meant you couldnt even break even on them over the long haul?
    That's true, but it was always in relative terms. kjaonline's point is, I think, that as conventional fuel gets more expensive, harnessing solar energy becomes, comparatively speaking, not so expensive anymore. Whether the point where they are equally expensive had been reached, would probably be quite a debate. One important thing IMO is that once you start to truly mass manufacture things, costs can change significantly. There is more than one way to tap into solar energy, not all having the same cost efficiency.

    This power is three times more expensive than power from conventional sources, but prices will fall, as they have with wind power, as the technologies develop.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS10_solar_power_tower

    Expensive still, but prohibitively so? It doesn't seem like it to me. We were blessed in recent history with low energy prices, but we will just have to cope with higher prices.
    Last edited by ldcdc; 01-05-2008 at 12:48 AM.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ldcdc View Post
    That's true, but it was always in relative terms. kjaonline's point is, I think, that as conventional fuel gets more expensive, harnessing solar energy becomes, comparatively speaking, not so expensive anymore. Whether the point where they are equally expensive had been reached, would probably be quite a debate. One important thing IMO is that once you start to truly mass manufacture things, costs can change significantly.
    Yeah - good points...

    I am curious if they have become more efficient at actually producing power in recent years (I remember I looked at these for our house a few years ago - and as much as I wanted to go that route, it just made zero sense as it would cost a bundle and produce pretty much nothing usable - especially if we had more rain or snow then normal )

    mass manufacturing is a good point - and maybe with enough sales, the technology could be improved to actually produce more usable power - chicken and the egg I guess..

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan - MTC View Post
    The UK government needs to act now and start getting some more nuclear powered stations built so we wont be dependant on gas from abroad any more and prices can go back down again.
    LOL... Uranium reserves are quite limited as well, and it's no a good idea to leave nuclear waste for 250,000 years underground for future generations. Many countries are rushing to Uranium as a replacement, taking the price of Uranium through the roof. In a few decades (not centuries), there won't be Uranium anymore. What's next?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    But adding solar panels is still an expense. Just think of if you had to add solar panels to your own home. It's an added expense, but will cut your power bills over the coming years.
    I know some one who covered the roof of his house with solar panels and resells the energy to the national electricity company. He actually consumes less than he generates energy. But the investment takes a few years to break even.

  32. #32
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    One interesting approach is to use solar thermal energy to heat water to use in turbines that produce electricity. I remembered I read an article regarding a US based company that has specialized in that area. Maybe someone has the source url
    -Mr Bister

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by calande View Post
    I know some one who covered the roof of his house with solar panels and resells the energy to the national electricity company. He actually consumes less than he generates energy. But the investment takes a few years to break even.
    Yeah, and I bet that "few years to break even" comes in at around 25 years.
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  34. #34

    GLOBAL WARMING INCREASE

    Although we have a profound affect on the environment, this seems like another global warming ploy to gouge the hosting consumers wallet. Hosting companies need to be fair when pricing plans and not make huge increases (17%) and blame it on global warming or higher cost due to resource inflation. Even though we are a green host we don't sit there and make these claims, as well as other hosting companies within this community. If they said 5% increase is more reasonable but almost 20% is a little steep. I would research other hosting providers within this community there are alot of quality providers here.


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  35. #35
    And hey, the sun didn't increase it's activity either Remember kids, Co2 is not a driver, it is a follower.

    But to the OP's question; This whole "go green"-thing won't affect the prices at all, I think.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by calande View Post
    Buy green hosting
    The price of wind, solar and geothermal energy shouldn't fluctuate.

    And when the wind stops blowing, there goes the uptime
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