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  1. #1
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    VP/CEO/President??? Geez

    What do you guys think of really small companies that try to act like big corporations?

    Example:

    1-2 Owner(s), 1 is the VP of sales and the other is the CEO.
    1 Owner, calls himself the CEO.

    Now, unless I’m retarded or something, what are they the CEO of? The pens & paper? Their desk? They don’t have anything to “manage” other then their little server & have no staff, so that does not make them a CEO. It only makes them a "“owner/partner” and at most, a manager (and that’s pushing it)!

    If you were to ask me when you should call yourself a CEO or any kind of executive title is when you have over 50 employees and more then 1 million in the bank. Not a 1-2 man operation counting pennies. What do you think?

    I really find it funny when people post here VP of this, CEO of that, President of blah blah yet when you look their domain, do a little tracing, it’s a RackShack server (or some sort of other crappy service provider).

    Do these people really think that by calling themselves a VP or CEO will attract customers because they are talking to the head of a 2-bit company? I don’t think –REAL- CEO’s (or any kind of other executive) would have the time to post in forums.

    I also laugh at the way some hosts word the “about us” area, to make them seem like a big bad hosting company with millions invested (yet only pay $99-$200/month). Take pictures off the data centers network page, and put them on the hosts own network page yet are very careful to word it so it seems likes it’s their data center, but it’s not (you know).

    Maybe some of the people that have VP/CEO/President in their sig (yet have 1-3 people working for them) can post and tell us why they consider themselves an executive, other then to make yourself look like a fool.
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  2. #2

    Re: VP/CEO/President??? Geez

    Originally posted by the elf

    <snip>
    Not a 1-2 man operation counting pennies. What do you think?

    I'm a 1 - 2 man operation, and trust me, I'm not counting pennies either.

    No matter how small or big a company is, there is a president or CEO. That is the title of the person in charge of said business.

    I don't know about anyone else I simply consider myself the President of the company.

    But my question is this, what the heck does this have anything to do with how well a small or big company is ran?

    A title is just a title, whopee, so does that make ENRON any better than the small mom and pop operations? NO!
    L. James Prevo - President/Owner
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  3. #3
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    When you file to incorporate... You are required to declare the title of each executive.. Atleast, it's required in WA state.
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  4. #4
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    Titles are cheap.

    However, in a partnership, there often is a defined hierarchy.

    When my consulting firm was first formed, there were three partners. Officers of the company included a President (me), a Secretary (one of the partners), and two directors (two other partners, one of which was also the Secretary). That was > 5 years ago. Lets just say we are much bigger now. Everyone starts out somewhere...

    In our corporate bylaws and minutes these things are all spelled out. Incorporation rules differ by jurisdiction but as others have pointed out, most have some sort of requirement to identify who the officers of the company are and what their roles are. CEO / President is a role.

    Its that simple.
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  5. #5
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    Titles are cheap indeed. Most of the "people" calling themselves like that are some 15year olds or similar ages.

    Ok I called Capitain Prost, Super-CEO and World-Leader in that age too. Comes with puberty I guess.

    Now I run my own LTD and I am indeed "Owner and CEO" but... u know... it is my personal value and those of the people work for me that get the job done. Not some title that make people only shake their head cause they might think I am some freak too.

    When teh client says that I am good then I am good. All my titles (CEO / Owner / MCSE / RHCE / CNE / Diploma - Manager) are good for a resumee but don't say anything until I proven myself in real action.
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  6. #6
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    You are playing with pennies, if you look at what real CEO's play with (billions/millions)! What you make is.. pocket change to them.


    Seems a few people missed the point of my post. I’m am fully aware of what incorporation requires, however, just because you listed yourself as a President of a company that makes quite a lot less then a true corporation, you don’t need to use the title. Just because I’m incorporated does not mean I have to put CEO/President on my business cards, in my sig etc. I put what I am, a systems administrator. I myself used the CEO title for about a week before I realized how stupid it made me & my company look.

    As to how a business operates, if the person just used the “owner” title rather then President/CEO, they would not have to “play” each person i.e. Tech Support, Systems Administrator, CEO etc, you know. The kind of host that gives support yet the reply lists no name (and you know it’s a 1-man shop). All it does it make you look like a fool here, and make your business look even worse.
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  7. #7
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    Reality and marketing are two different things. I started writing about the latter but gave up on it, but yes, I agree, posing as a super-mega corp with its own data centre etc is misleading.

    I have two sets of cards. President and Senior Consultant. I am both and feel quite comfortable in either role.

    When we were starting out, I used Senior Consultant more often than not. Its a bit disconcerting for some clients to be seeing the "President" doing 'real work' LOL. Yes, a perception thing.

    When we started we took the opposite approach - we did not hide our humble origins, rather, we were completely honest and above board and remain so to this date.

    This policy and approach has served us very well.
    “Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under
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  8. #8
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    Originally posted by mwatkins
    Reality and marketing are two different things. I started writing about the latter but gave up on it, but yes, I agree, posing as a super-mega corp with its own data centre etc is misleading.

    I have two sets of cards. President and Senior Consultant. I am both and feel quite comfortable in either role.

    When we were starting out, I used Senior Consultant more often than not. Its a bit disconcerting for some clients to be seeing the "President" doing 'real work' LOL. Yes, a perception thing.

    When we started we took the opposite approach - we did not hide our humble origins, rather, we were completely honest and above board and remain so to this date.

    This policy and approach has served us very well.
    That's another good point... I don't think people get it.

    "Uggg, why is the CEO/President doing all the sales/tech & admin (or anyone of the them for that matter) work??"

    I was going to get two sets of cards "CEO" & "admin" but what's the point? I started as a systems admin, and until I make tons of money, I'll still be a systems admin (not a CEO).

    The only area I feel stupid in is sales, but hey, who can make you a better deal then the systems administrator??
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  9. #9
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    As said before, when you incorperate, u gotta say who is what. Why do people put it in there sig and what not, because it makes them feel special. I am willing to bet that not even 50 percent of those are real. When I did it, I would only put it on welcoming emails and what not. As for regular companies, people do it all the time. In mine, the VP and President do it. Along with others in the company, of course they pretty much all have one job to do.
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  10. #10
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    Yeah, I am a CEO too. (really)
    I had to fill in somebody's name when I registered, and I sure wasn't going to say it was somebody else.
    but you don't see it in my sig.

    If they have to state what they are, then they probably aren't.
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by ATST
    Yeah, I am a CEO too. (really)
    I had to fill in somebody's name when I registered, and I sure wasn't going to say it was somebody else.
    but you don't see it in my sig.

    If they have to state what they are, then they probably aren't.
    Yeah, we all know that when you "incorporate" you have to give yourself a fancy title (CEO/President/blahblah). All I'm saying, is that the title is NOT REAL, and the people that use it in public, need to... well.. grow up!

    I think people use it (I'm a CEO) to make them look better, but it just makes them look worse, you know. Runts can't play with the big boys.

    Unless people can backup the "I'm a CEO" with a fat bank account and a very very large office along with tons of workers, your not a real CEO/President. They just think they are.
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  12. #12
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    I think you are bothered by this a little too much.

    Andrew
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Andyc
    I think you are bothered by this a little too much.

    Andrew
    Me, nahhhhh. I could careless what other people use as a title. I just find it funny. A CEO doing all the sales, a CEO doing all the admin work & the CEO doing all the support. That's not what a CEO does, so why call yourself a CEO?

    Maybe a few of the CEO's will read this thread and think about it a little.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by the elf
    ...if you look at what real CEO's play with...

    Seems a few people missed the point of my post. I’m am fully aware of what incorporation requires, however, just because you listed yourself as a President of a company that makes quite a lot less then a true corporation...
    The problem is, you have a misguided notion of what a CEO is. If you are incorporated and listed as the CEO, you are a real CEO. Bottom line. There is no such thing as 'a real CEO' or a 'true corporation'. You may have a certain view of what a corporation or a CEO is, but I assure you, it is only your perception playing tricks on you. If you are incorporated, and listed as the CEO in the papers, you are a real CEO and you run a true corporation. Trust me.

    Originally posted by the elf
    Yeah, we all know that when you "incorporate" you have to give yourself a fancy title (CEO/President/blahblah). All I'm saying, is that the title is NOT REAL, and the people that use it in public, need to... well.. grow up!

    Unless people can backup the "I'm a CEO" with a fat bank account and a very very large office along with tons of workers, your not a real CEO/President. They just think they are.
    Again, you don't give yourself anything, these postions are required when you file the papers. The title is indeed real.

    Your second paragraph shows that you have a perception of what a CEO is, however I assure you again that a 'big fat bank account' and a 'very very large office along with tons of workers' have absolutely nothing to to with the term. Nada.
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  15. #15
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    Those terms really come to a meaning when the company has a certain size so tasks are delegated to departments.
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  16. #16
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    This may be true however, the term is still valid when the corporation is created. They could have called it 'super president' or 'owner' or 'gooblah' but they didn't. The term is CEO. The majority of CEOs most likely do not have big fat bank accounts, very very large offices or tons of workers. It is just that many people are under the impression that they all do, or should. It just simply isn't the case.

    There are many available forms of business entities and people choose one over the other mainly for tax, liability, and organizational reasons.
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  17. #17
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    Originally posted by Chicken

    The problem is, you have a misguided notion of what a CEO is. If you are incorporated and listed as the CEO, you are a real CEO. Bottom line. There is no such thing as 'a real CEO' or a 'true corporation'. You may have a certain view of what a corporation or a CEO is, but I assure you, it is only your perception playing tricks on you. If you are incorporated, and listed as the CEO in the papers, you are a real CEO and you run a true corporation. Trust me.


    Again, you don't give yourself anything, these postions are required when you file the papers. The title is indeed real.

    Your second paragraph shows that you have a perception of what a CEO is, however I assure you again that a 'big fat bank account' and a 'very very large office along with tons of workers' have absolutely nothing to to with the term. Nada.

    Oh I know what a CEO does, and it's not posting in a forum all day long and adding accounts to servers nor dealing with every customer one-on-one.

    Regardless of what the papers say, it's false. I reserve the "corporation" & "CEO" titles for companies on a stock exchange, not a RS Rack or when the goverment says "ok, your a CEO". Your NOT a CEO when you do the admin/support/billing work, that's what 99% of the CEO's that list CEO as a title here do.

    If the person listed CEO, and did the work of a CEO, then yes, he/she can be called a CEO. However, as I said above, once you add a single account, reply to one ticket or send 1 bill, your not a CEO.

    Most people know when it's time to pick up the CEO title, others just jump because they see it on paper and I'm sure a lot of people know, just because it's on paper, don't make it true (wink: Worldcom).
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  18. #18
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    Originally posted by the elf
    Unless people can backup the "I'm a CEO" with a fat bank account and a very very large office along with tons of workers, your not a real CEO/President. They just think they are.
    Well, I'm the chief executive officer of my company, and...

    - I'm no Bernie Ebbers (Worldcom, 9 billion in fraudlent accounting) or Kenneth Lay (Enron)
    - my co has been profitable since day one
    - it employs a bunch of people
    - we pay our people 75% of what we bring in
    - zero staff turn over
    - and are leaders in our field and in our geography

    And yes, we started out as a three person operation.

    So while I agree with you about firms that make themselves out to be what they are not (web resellers or hosting companies using subterfuge to appear like they own data centres, etc), being small does not preculde being small but well managed.

    Being big is a) not a prerequisite to being a good manager / director / ceo and b) being big is not always good, period.

    I prefer our little org. Much more rewarding, the decisions we make have a real impact.

    In business, at least, big is not always better !
    “Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under
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  19. #19
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    If the person listed CEO, and did the work of a CEO, then yes, he/she can be called a CEO. However, as I said above, once you add a single account, reply to one ticket or send 1 bill, your not a CEO.
    Not true at all. Don't count wearing multiple hats against "real" CEOs.

    A real CEO is one who is capable of leading an organization; making decisions of strategic importance; motivating staff and management alike. The CEO is the personification of the organization, no matter how small.

    You are getting hung up on titles - but the real issue is roles. The leader of an organization, one person or two million in size, is the CEO.

    Some may call that person a Managing Director; some may call that person President; some might simply call that person "Boss".

    If they are the buck stops here person, they are the chief exectutive of the organization.

    Using titles for ego or to mislead is a completely different issue - on that I can agree with you. But I think, as Chicken pointed out, that your understanding of what makes a CEO is awfully narrow and in my view completely incorrect.
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  20. #20
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    Originally posted by mwatkins


    Well, I'm the chief executive officer of my company, and...

    - I'm no Bernie Ebbers (Worldcom, 9 billion in fraudlent accounting) or Kenneth Lay (Enron)
    - my co has been profitable since day one
    - it employs a bunch of people
    - we pay our people 75% of what we bring in
    - zero staff turn over
    - and are leaders in our field and in our geography

    And yes, we started out as a three person operation.

    So while I agree with you about firms that make themselves out to be what they are not (web resellers or hosting companies using subterfuge to appear like they own data centres, etc), being small does not preculde being small but well managed.

    Being big is a) not a prerequisite to being a good manager / director / ceo and b) being big is not always good, period.

    I prefer our little org. Much more rewarding, the decisions we make have a real impact.

    In business, at least, big is not always better !
    If you do CEO work, then your a CEO. If you pick up a hammer (you get the picture), your not a CEO. I don't care what the paper(s) say.

    I think losts of people misuse the term "CEO", or define it wrong.
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  21. #21
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    PS, even Microsoft's Bill Gates has been known over time to fire up a compiler / write some code. Did that invalidate him as a Chief Executive?

    PSPS, for a Microsoft laugh, visit:
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by mwatkins


    Not true at all. Don't count wearing multiple hats against "real" CEOs.

    A real CEO is one who is capable of leading an organization; making decisions of strategic importance; motivating staff and management alike. The CEO is the personification of the organization, no matter how small.

    You are getting hung up on titles - but the real issue is roles. The leader of an organization, one person or two million in size, is the CEO.

    Some may call that person a Managing Director; some may call that person President; some might simply call that person "Boss".

    If they are the buck stops here person, they are the chief exectutive of the organization.

    Using titles for ego or to mislead is a completely different issue - on that I can agree with you. But I think, as Chicken pointed out, that your understanding of what makes a CEO is awfully narrow and in my view completely incorrect.
    You sure? A CEO's job is to manage the company, not deal with the operations of the company. By that, I mean the CEO does not answer the phone, deal with support. The CEO deals with the people (managers & other executives) that deal with actual reps that deal with the customers. So, to get to the CEO, you have to go though almost 5 people.

    And so on for sales, support and the admin side of the company. The CEO deals with the managers which deal with the administrators. You don't see CEO's adding accounts do you?? If they do, then they are not a CEO, but a *systems admin*.

    So, to be a real CEO, you need to have about 50 people working for you (not a handful). Otherwise your just playing CEO and making yourself look bad. It don't matter what it says on paper, it's in real life that counts
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  23. #23
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    Originally posted by mwatkins
    PS, even Microsoft's Bill Gates has been known over time to fire up a compiler / write some code. Did that invalidate him as a Chief Executive?

    PSPS, for a Microsoft laugh, visit:
    Microsoft Certified Toilet System Engineer
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...184#post489184
    Well, he never wrote Windows XP did he? Sure the CEO/executive can always pick at things, but Bill Gates would not be the chairman of Microsoft if he started to write code again, or if he was a full-time coder, follow?
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  24. #24
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    The CEO is the highest-ranking executive in a company or organization, responsible for carrying out the policies of the board of directors on a day-to-day basis.
    -----
    Those policies may be "making sure all of the toilets are clean". Relax already

    I am legally the CEO now and I was legally the CEO when it was a two man crew. The only difference with growth is how easily it will be for me to be voted down as more people enter the board and how much my "real work" takes away from the "work I enjoy"

    A CEO that worked in the company from the ground up is a smart CEO. A CEO that continues to dabble in all areas of the company is even smarter!

    Guiding and leading the organization is easier to do when you are setting real life examples DAILY! This means being willing to get your hands dirty right along with the others in the company.

    From what I am reading here you're asking that I call myself what instead?

    I spend part of my week working with the accountant viewing payroll and other expenses etc...

    I spend my nights in billing....

    I spend my days setting up some accounts and answering some emails as well as enjoying forums both here and there so that I can keep up with what the clients are seeking....

    I spend time with the attorney going over various documents, ideas, issues etc...

    I spend time in IRC with our entire team joking and working around the clock with them....

    I do both grunt work and "CEO" work. Sometimes I have to "dress for success" for meetings and other times I answer support in my PJs.

    Dare I ask what you would have me call myself?
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  25. #25
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    Clearly 'the elf' will not see the point others are trying to make.

    As CEO I would banish him to 30 days of quality assurance work (my least favorite task).

    Or, come to think of it, 30 days of filling out time sheets would be worse!

    LOL

    end of thread for me.
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by Deb
    The CEO is the highest-ranking executive in a company or organization, responsible for carrying out the policies of the board of directors on a day-to-day basis.
    -----
    Those policies may be "making sure all of the toilets are clean". Relax already

    I am legally the CEO now and I was legally the CEO when it was a two man crew. The only difference with growth is how easily it will be for me to be voted down as more people enter the board and how much my "real work" takes away from the "work I enjoy"

    A CEO that worked in the company from the ground up is a smart CEO. A CEO that continues to dabble in all areas of the company is even smarter!

    Guiding and leading the organization is easier to do when you are setting real life examples DAILY! This means being willing to get your hands dirty right along with the others in the company.

    From what I am reading here you're asking that I call myself what instead?

    I spend part of my week working with the accountant viewing payroll and other expenses etc...

    I spend my nights in billing....

    I spend my days setting up some accounts and answering some emails as well as enjoying forums both here and there so that I can keep up with what the clients are seeking....

    I spend time with the attorney going over various documents, ideas, issues etc...

    I spend time in IRC with our entire team joking and working around the clock with them....

    I do both grunt work and "CEO" work. Sometimes I have to "dress for success" for meetings and other times I answer support in my PJs.

    Dare I ask what you would have me call myself?
    Anything other then CEO (I could name a few, but I’d be banned for saying them, j/k). If you do grunt work, then your not a CEO. I don't care what it says on paper, or if your "legally" listed as a CEO.

    I would never deal with a company that has the CEO answer the phone. You'd be more like a "manager", not a CEO.

    I would never call a CEO smart that deals with issues he/she should be paying other people to deal with. I'd call that CEO stupid, hell, I would NOT even call that person a CEO.

    Don't forget, it's the small companies trying to act big, not the big companies trying to act small and that's all your doing, is acting. All talk and no show (the people that LIST CEO as a title in public).

    Like I said before, I don't really care if your legally a CEO, the way I think of it, you were forced to take that title.

    Plus, most of you missed (I'll say it again) the point of this thread. It's not if your listed as a CEO, but if you *claim* to be a CEO in public. I'm sure you don't have CEO on your biz card do you?

    For an example, you (along with others that posted including me) are CEO's (if you want to nit pick about it), but we're really not. I don't do the work (as a full-time job) that a CEO does, and I'm sure none of you do either. So, were not really CEO's. We're more likes... the *owner* or *manager*. Once you have enough people working for you, and start making real money, then you claim the title of CEO. As of right now, your just a CEO with training wheels and so am I.
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  27. #27
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    Originally posted by mwatkins
    Clearly 'the elf' will not see the point others are trying to make.

    As CEO I would banish him to 30 days of quality assurance work (my least favorite task).

    Or, come to think of it, 30 days of filling out time sheets would be worse!

    LOL

    end of thread for me.
    CEO of what? 2-3 people and a small company?? Riiiight...
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  28. #28
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    I'm trying to figure out if you're trolling or just ignorant, but either way, this thread is pointless and is just going to go around in circles.
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    • Chicken
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