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  1. #1
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    Reputation mod? Or?

    We (staff) have been tossing some ideas around about some type of Reputation mod here.

    vBulletin has a pretty nice one built in that we could customize to our needs. It allows for positive and negative props to be given. We've considered tweaking it so that you get a little negative rep for every negative rep you give.

    There's also a nice "Thank You" hack that's available. It's a simple button that lets readers thank a member for a post.

    There's also the option of, "WHT is fine the way it is." Post count doesn't matter, but it is how we gauge a member's reputation around these parts.

    This thread is to gain feedback on what members feel would be good in a reputation meter, or if we should leave things as they are.

    If we did start any system, it would be on a trial basis.

    The choices:

    1. vBulletin Reputation
    2. Thank You hack
    3. No change
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  2. #2
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    There is hack called "iTrader" which is used by many forums.

    It gives positive and negative comments on the profile when you have done a deal, if the buyer did not receive what he paid for, he can give negative iTrade to seller which can be seen by every member.

    I personally think this can reduce scams
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  3. #3
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    I'm leaning toward the reputation system being a nice added feature for the community. If WHT could implement something like (or identical to) DigitalPoint, I think members would really enjoy using it. Here are the features that make DP so good.

    1. Members receive a small deduction in their own reputation every time they give negative rep to others (-1 point every time). This makes members think twice about giving negative rep - makes you give it when it's really due!

    2. Members are not allowed to rep the same person twice unless they've given XX# of +/- points to other members first. I'd favor 20 or 30 before you're allowed to rep the same member again, or after an amount of time has elapsed (30 days?).

    3. DP doesn't do this, but I would favor all reputation automatically showing the member who gave it, good or bad, no exception. So no anonymous rep.

    All of these can be automated, so there's no moderating involved, and members don't have to count time or the number of members they've repped. The system simply tells you if you can or can't give reputation.

    If these three things are incorporated into the reputation system, I would favor giving it a try. I think it could a fun addition to the community
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue View Post
    There's also the option of, "WHT is fine the way it is." Post count doesn't matter, but it is how we gauge a member's reputation around these parts.
    IMO a reputation system will be abused and I've only seen them used on kiddy forums, with too many stupid "+1 rep" posts made. They're so annoying and childish imo.

    Regarding this issue, "WHT is fine the way it is" in my books.
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  5. #5
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    I'm all in favour of a reputation system. I believe it will reduce spam posts as instead of people concentrating on increasing their post count will instead focus on the reputation. In which case, they will have no option but to provide something of value in order to get higher reputation.

    I agree with the the_pm's ideas, but also believe a minimum post count should be implemented to prevent friends of people signing up for the sake of just giving reputation points to one another. Also those that come here so frustrated to post a negative review may well give the host here a negative rating too based on something which happened outside of this forum.

    So Yes. A reputation system would indeed be a great idea.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by IH-Rameen View Post
    I agree with the the_pm's ideas, but also believe a minimum post count should be implemented to prevent friends of people signing up for the sake of just giving reputation points to one another. Also those that come here so frustrated to post a negative review may well give the host here a negative rating too based on something which happened outside of this forum.
    I like that idea. You have to be a part of the community for a little while before you start dishing out accolades and admonishments. 50 posts or 30 days, whichever comes first, perhaps?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    IMO a reputation system will be abused and I've only seen them used on kiddy forums, with too many stupid "+1 rep" posts made. They're so annoying and childish imo.

    Regarding this issue, "WHT is fine the way it is" in my books.
    I agree with Bob, it would be abused.

    1 more vote for "Fine the way it is."

  8. #8
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    Well I'll toss my views in the ring I guess. I'm with Paul and would like to see the reputation system with the modifications that he's listed.

    With regards to the "+1 rep" posts, these could be treated like any other type of spam post (delete and warn).

    With regards to worry about abuse, with the "rules" that Paul outlined above I think it would be difficult for somebody to abuse the system.
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  9. #9
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    If WHT just had the "thank you hack", what exactly does it do? It "thanks" the member in what way? Will there still be a reputation bar?

  10. #10
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    could a member opt-out?


    3. No change
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  11. #11
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    I don't think members would be allowed to opt-out, since that would defeat the purpose of the system. Reputation wouldn't be credible if people could wipe the slate clean by opting out.
    Quote Originally Posted by CD Burnt View Post
    could a member opt-out?


    3. No change

  12. #12
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    Consider how the reputation hack may impact peoples honesty and openness. We'd have a forum full of people who care how their posts are "ranked" rather than actually conveying their honest opinion.

    Bottom line: If this were implemented, I can safely say that I would take my casual participation at this forum from low/minimum to zero, except in the case of doing business in the offers/requests section. I also don't think I'd be the only one.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Consider how the reputation hack may impact peoples honesty and openness. We'd have a forum full of people who care how their posts are "ranked" rather than actually conveying their honest opinion.
    Could you give an example of this?
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  14. #14
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    I am for the reputation system as I feel this would encourage responsible posting instead of a lot of members just posting to increase their post counts. Some of the posts are vague enough such that we can't throw it and also vague enough so that it does not help anyone. With a reputation system in place, members will be able to help us by giving them a lesser reputation.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dollar View Post
    Could you give an example of this?
    Sure, take the social issues sub-forum for example. If this reputation thing was in place, I can already see the neg reps flying as people get into heated debates and begin to really disagree w/ someone elses opinion. Ultimately the 'rep' score would be based on how many people shared your opinion, which is not the intended purpose of the hack at all. Or, maybe someone like The Dude would get 100,000 positive props because he posts his fun little flash games a couple times a week. Does he really deserve a higher score than someone who took a few negs because he shared his contraversial views on politics, abortion, the war in iraq, etc? I just think it would be abused and not really serve any beneficial purpose.

    Edit: Boonchaun, I can understand your point. I think people who posts three or four word answers just to increase their post count really provide no added value to this forum. With that being said, that is the nature of any forum community. This place is popular because the mods aren't nazis about the QUALITY of everyones post. If we play by the rules, we can post even if it's vague as long as it's remotely relevant to the topic. I think on the off-chance anyone began taking this reputation thing seriously, it would be a flawed system because we'd all be judging the quality of peoples posts by our own opinion. It's not my decision to say whether your post was valuable to the community, only whether it's valuable to me. You shouldn't take neg rep bcause I didn't like what you had to say.. but I am certain that is what we'd see happening.
    Last edited by Rich; 01-01-2008 at 10:15 PM.

  16. #16
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    With the modifications that Paul listed giving a person in SI negative rep would also decrease your rep some. In addition you wouldn't be able to give them rep again until you had spread it around to 20-30 other people (or one month passed). Beyond that most issues in SI are pretty evenly split. I would say that the member would get probably as much positive rep as negative rep.

    With regards to The Dude getting 100,000 rep I wouldn't have a problem with this. If the community likes his posts of randomness then those posts are helping the community grow. Helping the community grow should be grounds for reputation.

    That said I can see your issues with the system, espeically as it applies to SI. The ability is in VB (as far as I know) to disable the reputation system on some forums and SI would probably be a good candidate for it. As for people going and giving negative rep to people they are mad at in SI, everybody would have their name signed to their rep. If a member felt they get -rep for no reason (or they got it for a post in SI for example), a helpdesk ticket would easily take care of it.

    Just my $.02
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  17. #17
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    Very good point being raised, thanks!

    Edit: Boonchaun, I can understand your point. I think people who posts three or four word answers just to increase their post count really provide no added value to this forum. With that being said, that is the nature of any forum community. This place is popular because the mods aren't nazis about the QUALITY of everyones post. If we play by the rules, we can post even if it's vague as long as it's remotely relevant to the topic. I think on the off-chance anyone began taking this reputation thing seriously, it would be a flawed system because we'd all be judging the quality of peoples posts by our own opinion. It's not my decision to say whether your post was valuable to the community, only whether it's valuable to me. You shouldn't take neg rep bcause I didn't like what you had to say.. but I am certain that is what we'd see happening.[/QUOTE]

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dollar View Post
    With regards to The Dude getting 100,000 rep I wouldn't have a problem with this. If the community likes his posts of randomness then those posts are helping the community grow. Helping the community grow should be grounds for reputation.
    I don't disagree with you here, I only used it to illustrate the potential qualitative differences in someone posting a game versus posting meaningful discussion. I think one is more important to this forum and we both know which.

    Quote Originally Posted by dollar View Post
    That said I can see your issues with the system, espeically as it applies to SI. The ability is in VB (as far as I know) to disable the reputation system on some forums and SI would probably be a good candidate for it. As for people going and giving negative rep to people they are mad at in SI, everybody would have their name signed to their rep. If a member felt they get -rep for no reason (or they got it for a post in SI for example), a helpdesk ticket would easily take care of it.
    I agree here too. It would be a good idea to disable it on the SI forum. However I think your idea of a helpdesk ticket for undeserved neg rep is something that the mods need to consider long and hard. This is a HUGE forum with a lot of important people. Aside from hindering valuable conversation and input from these people with a system like this, we're also talking about A LOT of help desk tickets coming in from those who feel they were wrongly awarded neg rep. It would be a very large burden on the mods having to now be judge and jury for everyones reported "wrong" rep points.

  19. #19
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    I vote:

    3. No change

    Beyond all the abuse potential a reputation module affords the unscrupulous, I am not quite able to identify what problem or void such a system would be solving or filling. In 2.5+ years here, I've seen a consistent dedication to giving the best available answers to the questions posed. It's that sense of community which, in my opinion, makes WHT such a valuable commodity to its membership. In turn, I fail to see how a reputation module would improve on that spirit of community.
    Last edited by garp74; 01-01-2008 at 10:59 PM.

  20. #20
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    I am in favor of the Reputation mod and iTrader too, as this can provide safe trading and good business rep. Businesses can be repped on their services, hosts can be rated, etc.

    iTrader is good for all trades, you can see who it is safer to trade with, etc

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by garp74 View Post
    Beyond all the abuse potential a reputation module affords the unscrupulous...
    I think most of this can be mitigated or even eliminated with the right safeguards built into the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by garp74 View Post
    I am not quite able to identify what problem or void such a system would be solving or filling. In 2.5+ years here, I've seen a consistent dedication to giving the best available answers to the questions posed. It's that sense of community which, in my opinion, makes WHT such a valuable commodity to its membership. In turn, I fail to see how a reputation module would improve on that spirit of community.
    I think this is less a matter of solving a problem and more a matter of giving the community a tool that makes participation more interesting. It gives community members the opportunity to reward each other for participating and the ability for community members to self-police to a small extent with negative rep. This, in turn, promotes more quality participation, and with safeguards in place that prevent people from favoring individuals coupled with no anonymity, I think this sort of system would support the spirit of the community.

    I've been very much against such a system for a long time, mostly because of the abuse potential. But I think it would be worth a try if the abuse could be removed from the equation. I think a trial is worthwhile. At the end, it can always be removed. I'm confident if the system was not living up to its potential it would be removed
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I agree with Bob, it would be abused.

    1 more vote for "Fine the way it is."
    +1 rep.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pm View Post
    I think most of this can be mitigated or even eliminated with the right safeguards built into the system.

    I think this is less a matter of solving a problem and more a matter of giving the community a tool that makes participation more interesting. It gives community members the opportunity to reward each other for participating and the ability for community members to self-police to a small extent with negative rep. This, in turn, promotes more quality participation, and with safeguards in place that prevent people from favoring individuals coupled with no anonymity, I think this sort of system would support the spirit of the community.

    I've been very much against such a system for a long time, mostly because of the abuse potential. But I think it would be worth a try if the abuse could be removed from the equation. I think a trial is worthwhile. At the end, it can always be removed. I'm confident if the system was not living up to its potential it would be removed
    //illustrate abuse
    No trial, don't make us suffer!
    -1 rep for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
    +1 rep.
    Oh why thank you, +1 rep for you too then.

    (Note how the cycle could repeat, endlessly, for no apparent reason where +1 reps are handed out like free candy, and the negatives just because people don't like each others opinion!)

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    //illustrate abuse
    No trial, don't make us suffer!
    -1 rep for you!
    You would also take -1 rep for doing that. You could not rep that same person again until you gave or took rep from 20-30 other members or waited a month.

    Oh why thank you, +1 rep for you too then.

    (Note how the cycle could repeat, endlessly, for no apparent reason where +1 reps are handed out like free candy, and the negatives just because people don't like each others opinion!)
    For the negatives see above. Handing them out like candy is something that I don't see happening as people don't want to damage their own rep.

    For the positives I'm sure there will be a "rep timer" of sorts just like a post timer to prevent people from going through and giving +1 rep to everybody they see.
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  25. #25
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    [Just one more post in support of my position]

    In our network engineering world, there are many solutions to a single problem. Someone may ask "how do I accomplish X", and WHT'ers may offer numerous and widely-varying solutions. While the rational poster may see merit in each of the responses, an egoist may only see value in her approach and thus feel negatively about the other options presented.

    The bottom line is, in my opinion, that there is often no single right answer to so many of the questions posed here every week. It would be unwise, therefore, to allow people to openly judge these answers via +-rep, and naive to think all the judgments will be made objectively and dispassionately.

    Just my opinion, of course!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    //illustrate abuse
    No trial, don't make us suffer!
    -1 rep for you!
    And now it's going to be a long time before you can rep me again, and you just took a small hit too. Plus, I see your name attached to my negative rep, so you've probably taken this into account when choosing to hand out that rep

    Quote Originally Posted by garp74 View Post
    The bottom line is, in my opinion, that there is often no single right answer to so many of the questions posed here every week. It would be unwise, therefore, to allow people to openly judge these answers via +-rep, and naive to think all the judgments will be made objectively and dispassionately.

    Just my opinion, of course!
    See, I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Reputation measures how the community feels about how a member posts - it's a subjective measurement and I don't think was even meant to measure objectivity or dispassion. There's no right answer, only the answer that's right for you, or something to that effect. Why not give members a way to show that a particular answer was particularly useful in the face of many answers that could have been but weren't as much?

    The second option, the Thank You system, is similar to reputation, only it's the positive side (and displays a little differently). Maybe this deserve a closer look?
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  27. #27
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    I think the Thank You System would be OK if you absolutely feel we need more "excitement" here at WHT

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I think the Thank You System would be OK if you absolutely feel we need more "excitement" here at WHT
    I'm not attached to whatever the final decision is WHT will get along fine with or without a member rating system. I just figured since the question came up I'd show some support for trying something new that - I'm up for experimenting, if it doesn't look like it's going to hurt any to try
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pm View Post
    I like that idea. You have to be a part of the community for a little while before you start dishing out accolades and admonishments. 50 posts or 30 days, whichever comes first, perhaps?
    New members giving rep doesn't count towards reputation points for quite a while as it is. It shows as neutral whether they try to give + or -
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  30. #30
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    A question for those proposing a rep system - why do you think WHT needs one?

    Also the concept of getting a negative rep point for giving a negative rep point, seems wierd to me. I do understand the reasoning for it, but it's like we'll hit you with a stick if you assign a negative rep point to someone.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    Also the concept of getting a negative rep point for giving a negative rep point, seems wierd to me. I do understand the reasoning for it, but it's like we'll hit you with a stick if you assign a negative rep point to someone.
    Absolutely right!
    Example eBay - I buy something and make an immediate payment; seller defaults on the supply, (not as described etc) and I give a negative feedback. He then gives me negative feedback in spite, even though I have paid on the nose - it's useless!

    I'm against the whole idea of 'Rep Points' as they can and will be abused just because someone want to 'get one over' and without any arbitration there's nothing you can do to put it right. 'Rep' is available here already by doing a search if you take the time to do it.

    'No change' vote here.

  32. #32
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    There's also a nice "Thank You" hack that's available. It's a simple button that lets readers thank a member for a post.
    I would vote for hank You" hack that's available

    The reputation system would be surely abused by many and more over even if implemented it should not make a count in social issues. This would surely reduce the freedom of expression of one.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandad View Post
    Absolutely right!
    Example eBay - I buy something and make an immediate payment; seller defaults on the supply, (not as described etc) and I give a negative feedback. He then gives me negative feedback in spite, even though I have paid on the nose - it's useless!

    I'm against the whole idea of 'Rep Points' as they can and will be abused just because someone want to 'get one over' and without any arbitration there's nothing you can do to put it right. 'Rep' is available here already by doing a search if you take the time to do it.

    'No change' vote here.
    The trick with eBay is to send the seller a very polite email asking him to give you positive feedback to receive positive feedback. Then go ahead and give him the negative feedback if your dispute cannot be resolved. Works majority of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_pm
    I like that idea. You have to be a part of the community for a little while before you start dishing out accolades and admonishments. 50 posts or 30 days, whichever comes first, perhaps?
    Sounds reasonable. I believe 50 posts is sufficient for someone to have participated enough and gained a general insight into the industry to cast a decent +/- rep.
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  34. #34
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    NO CHANGE (3) Leave it as it is, otherwise it will start looking like just another forums. Keep it elite and different.



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    I'd prefer a system like they have on namepros. Like with ebay, when you sell/buy you leave each other feedback and a negative, netral, postive mark. You link to the thread of the sale so you can see if a new member has just been posting on forums for a $1 a time and now they're trying to sell a $1000 website you still may want to take some care, but if someone has postive feedback on a few $1000 website sales you can generally continue with ease.

    It is also a good thing to have in the background to make sure good customer care is always given; as it's a perm' thing in your profile.
    Web Handyman - Website and Internet Marketing Service

  36. #36
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Pflugerville, TX
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    11,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    A question for those proposing a rep system - why do you think WHT needs one?
    I would get past the notion that this is driven by need. It's not. It's like smileys. We don't need them. Human beings have been communicating with each other in written form without smileys for millenia. We have smileys because they add an element of fun and personality to conversations, but they're not needed.

    Likewise, having some sort of feedback mechanism in place adds an element of fun and some small degree of accountability to the community.

    Let's talk about accountability a moment. Right now the only way to hold members accountable for their posts is to find a rule that might be broken and hope the moderators interpret the rules the same way as you (many rules are purely discretion calls). It's good that we have rules. It's good that we have moderators. It's good that there's some flexibility that allows for discretion in moderation. But it surprises me that the community is not more receptive to a mechanism that allows peers to hold each other accountable for how they treat each other. Maybe fear of peer backlash will make some people think twice about the language and tone they use with each other. I'm especially excited about what this could do for the Social Issues forum. Maybe people will stop being ******** (self-censored) to each other and get back to discussing and debating topics respectfully.

    At the same time, there is no system in place that allows members to quantitatively express their gratitude for each others' participation. Perhaps having a system like this will provide people with even more incentive to post helpful, meaningful, thorough responses to questions or start even higher quality threads.

    I think we're giving the community too little credit if we think the system is only going to be abused, particularly if there are well thought-out limitations that prevent most or all of that abuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    Also the concept of getting a negative rep point for giving a negative rep point, seems wierd to me. I do understand the reasoning for it, but it's like we'll hit you with a stick if you assign a negative rep point to someone.
    It's more like a love tap DigitalPoint's system gives one point deduction for giving negative rep (reputation is given in increments of anywhere from 1 to 10 points).
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    chica go go
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    11,858
    Add reputation mod, let people comment on other users when they vote on their reputation, take away 0.5 points for every 1 point you use on the reputation feature (giving or taking), give users 2 reputation points any time they post.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,608
    'm especially excited about what this could do for the Social Issues forum. Maybe people will stop being ******** (self-censored) to each other and get back to discussing and debating topics respectfully.
    It will be unfair if the system drops in social issues forum too.

    Perhaps having a system like this will provide people with even more incentive to post helpful, meaningful, thorough responses to questions or start even higher quality threads.
    What do u mean by high quality threads?. How do you rate ?

    Any thread started is a high quality for the OP. I think it would not be a good deal others rating the thread or giving negative or positive points for the user.

    If a thread is useful to some person, it would be better to give a small "Thanks".

    Not every discussion started may be of interest to every user. There are users who may like and dislike.

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Pakistan
    Posts
    2,752
    Quote Originally Posted by ub3r View Post
    Add reputation mod, let people comment on other users when they vote on their reputation, take away 0.5 points for every 1 point you use on the reputation feature (giving or taking), give users 2 reputation points any time they post.
    I won't recommend it, this will encourage spam, I am sure.
    I'm Zafar Ahmed.
    I provide
    SEO Services & eMarketing consultancy
    I'll be glad to hear from you

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    chica go go
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    11,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Zafar Ahmed View Post
    I won't recommend it, this will encourage spam, I am sure.
    if they spam, people will vote them down. this will only encourage people to post & read more.

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