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  1. #1
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    My chat log with WHT member CNV

    Hi Everyone,

    Just a heads up.. I contacted the user "cnv" about some Facebook applications/codes he is selling here at WHT. He isn't a new user, so I assumed he wouldn't be the run of the mill scammer and deserved little interrogation. I was in for quite a surprise.. even the most obvious and expected questions yielded immature responses.

    colomsan (12:57:57 AM): hi
    Tadunka (1:08:26 AM): sup
    colomsan (1:08:48 AM): not much you ?
    Tadunka (1:08:59 AM): So, you have Facebook apps for sale?
    colomsan (1:09:27 AM): yea
    colomsan (1:09:39 AM): i got one app for sale, but i got like 4 codes as well
    Tadunka (1:09:34 AM): Tell me the difference between an app and a code.
    Tadunka (1:16:21 AM): Not gonna happen?
    colomsan (1:17:08 AM): App is the application already setup in facebook. Code is the code you use to create the application
    colomsan (1:17:16 AM): sorry steped out for a bit
    Tadunka (1:17:47 AM): \Why haven't you converted the code to live applications?
    colomsan (1:18:18 AM): I did. But im also selling the code alone
    Tadunka (1:18:47 AM): ok.. So I can see live demos of all 5 apps, one of which you're selling outright, the other 4 you're selling a copy of the source code.
    Tadunka (1:18:49 AM): Am I right?
    colomsan (1:19:30 AM): http://www.sitepoint.com/marketplace/auction/18102
    Tadunka (1:21:11 AM): I see
    Tadunka (1:22:02 AM): How much?
    colomsan (1:22:39 AM): for the codes? $200
    colomsan (1:22:43 AM): for all 4 codes
    Tadunka (1:22:41 AM): That's quite a hefty price tag for copies
    colomsan (1:23:07 AM): how much were you looking to pay ?
    Tadunka (1:23:35 AM): Not much, the apps are interesting but there's so many like it. I figured since you're selling a bunch of copies you wanted to dump it at a good price.
    Tadunka (1:23:39 AM): How many copies have you sold?
    colomsan (1:24:11 AM): not many actually 2
    colomsan (1:24:48 AM): and it doesn't matter how many times the code has been sold. Its still worth a lot. You try buying the codes separate right now and trust me you'll be paying 100-300 for each alone
    Tadunka (1:24:55 AM): who wrote them?
    Tadunka (1:25:15 AM): youve sold 2. I'll decide the value, just answer my questions.. thanks
    colomsan (1:25:52 AM): My programmer wrote them
    colomsan (1:26:15 AM): Im not gonna sell them for less than 180
    Tadunka (1:26:41 AM): interesting. Are you willing to sign a contract stating the number of times this has been sold, how many it will be sold, and signing over non-exclusive rights to use the code for my own purposes?
    colomsan (1:27:23 AM): lol no im not gonna sign a contract
    Tadunka (1:27:15 AM): interesting
    Tadunka (1:27:17 AM): So you're a scammer.
    Tadunka (1:27:18 AM): Later.
    colomsan (1:27:38 AM): lol
    colomsan (1:27:39 AM): peace
    What I find interesting is when people are selling software that they have supposedly written or had written for them, but are unwilling to sign anything that confirms that fact. As if... we're supposed to blindly send him for money for code he could very well be pirating. Buyer beware.
    Last edited by Rich; 12-30-2007 at 02:37 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    Just a heads up.. I contacted the user "cnv" about some Facebook applications/codes he is selling here at WHT. He isn't a new user, so I assumed he wouldn't be the run of the mill scammer and deserved little interrogation. I was in for quite a surprise.. even the most obvious and expected questions yielded immature responses.


    What I find interesting is when people are selling software that they have supposedly written or had written for them, but are unwilling to sign anything that confirms that fact. As if... we're supposed to blindly send him for money for code he could very well be pirating. Buyer beware.
    Based on the chat log you posted, I see absolutely nothing unreasonable in his replies to you. He didn't say he wouldn't sign a contract about who authored the script. He said he wasn't going to sign a contract telling you how many times he sold it and how many more times he's going to sell it. I can't think of any software company that would do that, unless you're paying them for exclusive rights.

    --Tina
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    Based on the chat log you posted, I see absolutely nothing unreasonable in his replies to you. He didn't say he wouldn't sign a contract about who authored the script. He said he wasn't going to sign a contract telling you how many times he sold it and how many more times he's going to sell it. I can't think of any software company that would do that, unless you're paying them for exclusive rights.

    --Tina
    Oh, you're right.
    colomsan (1:27:23 AM): lol no im not gonna sign a contract
    That absolutely sounds like a direct quote to me Tina. /sarcasm

    He said he won't sign A contract. If you see something else in that statement, get your eyes checked miss.

    And the fact that you see nothing unreasonable with his replies lets me know that I should stay away from doing business with you as well. Let's see, what would a reasonable person in his shoes have done? Well I for one would have suggested a compromise in order to close the sale.

    If he won't tell me how many he's sold or will sell, how about just giving me the piece of paper stating I do have non-exclusive rights to the code? That is afterall the most important part to me. At the end of the day, I was inquiring out of curiosity and would have purchased if I'd gotten a better feeling about the situation. It's interesting to me that you actually think he handled himself properly.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post

    He said he won't sign A contract. If you see something else in that statement, get your eyes checked miss.
    Hostile much?

    You took his quote out of context. The conversation was:

    Tadunka (1:26:41 AM): interesting. Are you willing to sign a contract stating the number of times this has been sold, how many it will be sold, and signing over non-exclusive rights to use the code for my own purposes?
    colomsan (1:27:23 AM): lol no im not gonna sign a contract

    Personally, you seem like the type of customer that we actually would try to steer clear of. You come across demanding, rude and nitpicky. He, on the other hand, answered all of your questions very politely and even offered up explanations on why he was selling them at that price.

    I think its a bit far-fetched to post an entire thread @ WHT "warning" everyone to "beware" of that person.

    --Tina
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    Personally, you seem like the type of customer that we actually would try to steer clear of.
    You steer clear of customers like me? Wow. That sounds like a solid business plan to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    You come across demanding, rude and nitpicky.
    Check, check, check. And the problem is? When I stop being great at what I do in my professional life, and/or let my personality effect my personal life then we can talk about how I'm a horrible person. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with being demanding, rude, and nitpicky when the situation warrants it. This guy "lol'd" half of the things I said to him and even stepped out during our conversation without so much as a "brb". Perhaps what I'm hostile about is the fact that his unprofessionalism isn't being faulted in the slightest.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    I think its a bit far-fetched to post an entire thread @ WHT "warning" everyone to "beware" of that person.

    --Tina
    That's funny, because the WHT mods took my report seriously enough to ask him for proof of ownership of the script. I suppose this is why this thread has stayed up and wasn't deleted?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    You steer clear of customers like me? Wow. That sounds like a solid business plan to me.
    Absolutely. Its been working great for 10 years. Basically, if you want to be rude and obnoxious to staff, we send you packing.

    The kid is selling Facebook scripts as a side project. You act like you need exclusive licensing rights and if you don't get them the guy is somehow scamming you. Be nice, man. Jeez.

    --Tina
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    Absolutely. Its been working great for 10 years. Basically, if you want to be rude and obnoxious to staff, we send you packing.

    The kid is selling Facebook scripts as a side project. You act like you need exclusive licensing rights and if you don't get them the guy is somehow scamming you. Be nice, man. Jeez.

    --Tina
    Tinnaaaa... you're missing the point. I didn't want exclusive licensing rights at all. If he had been selling those and wouldn't sign off on it, that's one thing. I asked him to sign off on giving me non-exclusive rights. Pretty much a "Richard Sayer has purchased such and such scripts from WhateverHisNameIs on xx/xx/xxxx and has non-exclusive rights to use it for his own purposes." That would have been acceptable (provided we tidy up the text a bit) but I think that would have been perfectly reasonable. Now, I sure as hell hope you don't think I'm out of line for wanting proof of purchase/ownership from the guy after handing over $200? A receipt like that would have not only been common courtesy but EXPECTED when selling software/code like that. I've been doing this long enough to know some people are timid about signing contracts, which is why I posted here to let everyone know.. something is fishy about a guy who won't sign a simple receipt on a $200 sale.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    something is fishy about a guy who won't sign a simple receipt on a $200 sale.
    You didn't ask for a receipt. You asked for a contract. I've sold quite a few little scripts and if someone asked for a "contract", I'd laugh too. Asking for a notation on the receipt, to state what it is you've paid for, is a completely different thing.

    You know, you can argue with me all day - my opinion is that you came across rude and demanding to this kid. He, in my opinion, answered your questions detailed and in a reasonable manner for what he is selling...Facebook scripts as a side project.

    --Tina
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    You didn't ask for a receipt. You asked for a contract. I've sold quite a few little scripts and if someone asked for a "contract", I'd laugh too.
    Signed Receipt/Contract, they would have served the same purpose as long as it said what I needed it to say and had his signature on it. I don't care what you call it Tina, we can call it a Cheesecake if you want. Again going back to the professionalism thing and the way a reasonable salesman should have handled himself -- all the kid had to do was compromise. If he wanted to sign his Cheesecake that said I had purchased the script, that would have been fine.

    You know, you can argue with me all day
    --Tina
    Aw Tina, You know I'd love nothing more but it's New Years Eve and I've got plans with the family. I hope that in the New Year you and I continue to have our fun little differences in opinion. I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say, WHT wouldn't be the same without you. Happy New Year Tina.

    /unsubscribe
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Signed Receipt/Contract
    Are 2 completely different things.

    Have a good one.

    --Tina
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  12. #12
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    interesting. Are you willing to sign a contract stating the number of times this has been sold, how many it will be sold, and signing over non-exclusive rights to use the code for my own purposes?
    Wow, all for $200?

    It looks to me like it's not the other person that should be avoided but you here, seriously.

    A receipt like that would have not only been common courtesy but EXPECTED when selling software/code like that.
    No it wouldn't. As a designer and a developer over the past few years, none of my projects have gone out with any such contract or receipt. How many times I sell my script, or ANY designer sells their scripts is NOYB. If you want to MAKE it your business, you can expect a few thousand $$ to be added.


    Check, check, check. And the problem is?
    I'd agree with Tina here, definitely someone to stay away from.
    The problem is that you have no right asking those kinds of questions from a developer. Now, if the script were thousands of $$$, maybe you'd stand a chance. If you entered into an 'exclusivity' contract (which you're not going to get here for those prices), again, maybe you'd stand a chance.

    Well I for one would have suggested a compromise in order to close the sale.
    And as a developer, I woulda told you what building to leap off of, after telling you it's none of your business (which it is).

    As a business owner, I would have told you where to go the second you started down that road.

    Compromise? No, there is no 'compromise'. Maybe for a high(er) end client, a compromise would be made, but for one script, one time, one purchase? No compromise at all.

    Looks to me like you're out there just trying to damage someone's reputation just because you feel like it. I feel sorry for this guy and whomever you actually DO do business with!
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    That's funny, because the WHT mods took my report seriously enough to ask him for proof of ownership of the script. I suppose this is why this thread has stayed up and wasn't deleted?
    Just to clarify, I did this because it's standard procesure to do so. This thread/chat did not factor into the decision. Carry on.
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  14. #14
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    Tina is right here, a contract and a receipt are two completely and totally different things.
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  15. #15

    wow...

    Its amazing how slow people are.

    Rich, get a life. People message me giving me a URL to a WHT thread where someone with absolutely no proof or idea on what they talk about.

    Damn, I don't even know why im wasting my time explaining my self haha. I bought this codes from PROGRAMMERS with exclusive rights. If you don't know anything about facebook apps don't even bother. I have apps being developed as I type this reply.

    Get a life.
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  16. #16
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    linux-tech,

    Your ignorance is showing.

    Whether you, or anyone else here, does business without contracts is up to the individual. However, I personally choose to get paper for my purchases. I don't care if it's $20, $20, or $2000.

    A PayPal receipt for $200 is not sufficient proof in my book that I purchased his Facebook code. What does it show? It shows that I gave him $200. A signed piece of paper is sufficient legal evidence to show he was paid for the work.

    ANYTHING you have to say to the contrary only shows that you are biased by your own experiences and entirely ignorent of the law. I practice SAFE business practices by getting the paper. Rude? You call it what you want. I'm not insulted by any of your comments linux-tech, really I find it amusing that you have the audacity to say such things as "I would have told you what building to jump off of". You and Tina both are very revealing in how you would treat your prospects as well as your customers and frankly I feel sorry for them.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastDallas View Post
    Tina is right here, a contract and a receipt are two completely and totally different things.
    Oh for crying out loud, no one is arguing that. I was suggesting that a contract would have served as my receipt, and a signed receipt would have served as my contract. Look at the bigger picture people.
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  18. #18
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    Rich the problem here is that you are wrong. Plain and simple.

    You get on a chat to do a business deal, you are bound to get "lol" as a response. Be a professional and contact someone via phone or through an email if you want a BUSINESS transaction.

    You were arguing that a receipt/contract WAS the same thing, so whatever to you buddy.

    cnv didn't do anything wrong here.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    You and Tina both are very revealing in how you would treat your prospects as well as your customers and frankly I feel sorry for them.
    Funny. I've been a long-time customer of linux-tech's and I'm extremely picky with who I'll deal with. By surrounding myself with people who act like professional, polite adults (vendors, staff and clients), it makes for a nicer experience for everyone.

    Everyone should just relax and be nicer to each other. I don't know this kid and I don't know if he is a decent person or not. I just know that you've posted a "Beware of CNV" thread that has the potential to really damage that guy's reputation...and I've seen absolutely nothing from you that indicates he has done anything wrong. In my world, that's just not nice.

    PS: I'm 40-something. That gives me a right to call just about everyone "kid".

    --Tina
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  20. #20
    First thanks for those who defended me (Tina etc..)

    I honestly don't care what this kid says about me. But if he wants to deal with this on a different level. Please send me your contact details and i'll be more than happy to end this.
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  21. #21
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    My contact details are in my signature, let's not pretend we can't read cnv, you are on an internet forum (clearly you can read). If you're going to call, do it before this evening because I have plans.
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  22. #22
    Please PM me your full contact info. Business info etc..
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  23. #23
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    Guys, this is ridiculous to argue with one another over these forums. If you don't agree here, just carry on with life. People do not have the same mindset on things - and Tina felt you were (and are) wrong, just as I do. There is no need to jump down our throats about it.

    I don't even see a point to this thread anymore. Perhaps /closed?
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  24. #24
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    Closed by OP request. Best wishes toward a speedy resolution!
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