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  1. #1
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    7,000,000 (7 Million) visitors per day......

    Hello guys. I have a question. What is the best way to handle a 7 Million to 200 Million visitors a day.Knowing that those will be the unique ones only.I need to get some advince.

  2. #2
    I agree with Sgarbus, you're definitely going to need a cluster with that. I think iMountain is a cluster provider. I've never used a provider who offers that, so I'm just trying to think of people who do offer it.
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  3. #3
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    Your site isn't going to be getting 7 million to 200 million uniques a day. Call Rackspace or ThePlanet or something.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by HostSentry View Post
    Your site isn't going to be getting 7 million to 200 million uniques a day. Call Rackspace or ThePlanet or something.
    Personally, that's probably what I would do. I would call and get a custom solution from Rackspace.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by UH-Bobby View Post
    Personally, that's probably what I would do. I would call and get a custom solution from Rackspace.
    Yeah. I don't mean to be rude. But every time I talk to someone who has an idea... its always something like "Well what if everyone in America is on it at once?". They won't be... its okay.

    You'd need some serious distributing, but more importantly if you seriously think you are going to be making that kind of money (visitors = money).... you shouldn't be asking on WHT.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostSentry View Post
    you shouldn't be asking on WHT.
    Why? Thats what WHT is here for, helping each other out. Whats wrong with getting advice?

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  7. #7
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    Good luck getting 200million people online at once
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostSentry View Post
    Your site isn't going to be getting 7 million to 200 million uniques a day. Call Rackspace or ThePlanet or something.
    What does unique visits matter to server loads? A hit is a hit - 6 million people hitting 30 times a day would generate circa 200million hits.
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  9. #9
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    Your own load balanced cluster would be the best bet for that number of visitors a day. A few companies mentioned above could set that up, and some will charge an arm and leg more then the others I'm sure.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by UH-Bobby View Post
    Personally, that's probably what I would do. I would call and get a custom solution from Rackspace.
    Although I agree that companies like rackspace can handle this, the solutions they use arent as automated as one would like to see and the associated costs are very very high. Something like this would cost you $20k-$30k/month and up from rackspace - at least if you set it up "correctly"...

    Let me ask you a few questions - how many simultaneous users? is the proposed site static or dynamic? do you have any approximate bandwidth numbers (Average and Peaks)? What languages is your site/application written in? how much storage space do you require

    If you want to contact rackspace or someone similar, your requirements would look something like this (I am assuming a standard LAMP config):

    2 load balancers in a HA formation
    3-4 (or more depending on actual peak requirements) web server nodes (load balanced)
    2 (or more) mysql servers in a failover array
    1-2 mail servers (depending on requirements - Load Balance if needed or if heavy email requirements)
    1 SAN - preferably fiber attached, SAS Drives, RAID10 for central web and mail storage
    1 backup solution with enough backup space to accomodate multiple restore points of data - especially mysql data (countinuous data protection)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CartikaHosting View Post
    Although I agree that companies like rackspace can handle this, the solutions they use arent as automated as one would like to see and the associated costs are very very high. Something like this would cost you $20k-$30k/month and up from rackspace - at least if you set it up "correctly"...

    2 load balancers in a HA formation
    3-4 (or more depending on actual peak requirements) web server nodes (load balanced)
    2 (or more) mysql servers in a failover array
    1-2 mail servers (depending on requirements - Load Balance if needed or if heavy email requirements)
    1 SAN - preferably fiber attached, SAS Drives, RAID10 for central web and mail storage
    1 backup solution with enough backup space to accomodate multiple restore points of data - especially mysql data (countinuous data protection)
    20-30K a month won't be in places like Rackspace. You won't get that even on unmanaged, high volume providers, like Softlayer or LT. And your specs are way to small for any dynamic website. I know alexa top 500 sites that have only 7-800.000 visitors/day and 2-4 mil pageviews, and are using much more powerful clusters. The fact is, at 7 mil uniques, you will be an alexa top 50 site, and I don't know any alexa top 50 that needs hosting. So I guess you are asking just for fun.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by borghunn View Post
    20-30K a month won't be in places like Rackspace. You won't get that even on unmanaged, high volume providers, like Softlayer or LT. And your specs are way to small for any dynamic website. I know alexa top 500 sites that have only 7-800.000 visitors/day and 2-4 mil pageviews, and are using much more powerful clusters. The fact is, at 7 mil uniques, you will be an alexa top 50 site, and I don't know any alexa top 50 that needs hosting. So I guess you are asking just for fun.
    Well, that is why I asked for additional information. If its a static site with a single file to download, they may not even need what was spec'ed out above.

    Rackspace for example is in the $15-$20k range for a couple of load balancers and 4-5 servers + low end SAN.

    I do agree, if they have a heavy DB site with that many visitors, they probably need alot more then what was spec'ed (which is why I indicated (or more) with pretty much everything.... plus, bandwidth wasnt really discussed....

  13. #13
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    Why is it 7-200 million? That's a BIG gap.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looie View Post
    Why is it 7-200 million? That's a BIG gap.
    Probably a typo, 7 to 20 million makes more sense -- though still a gap.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven99 View Post
    Probably a typo, 7 to 20 million makes more sense -- though still a gap.
    What it really means is "hey, i've created this new site which I think will generate bazillions of visitors"

    Of course, it might be genuine, but getting such a mass of people online, at such a rough estimate, unlikely.
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  16. #16
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    Why does it matter if his estimate is way off or not? Just answer his question, i'm sure he doesn't want to read ten people telling him that he won't get eleventy billion hits a day.
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  17. #17
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    What is your domain?
    RageTracks.com -- Discover the latest Electronic Dance Music

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_EZPZ View Post
    Why does it matter if his estimate is way off or not? Just answer his question, i'm sure he doesn't want to read ten people telling him that he won't get eleventy billion hits a day.

    Fair enough.

    My recommendation would be a Content Delivery Network. A big one too.

    Servers from datacenters across the globe for serving up the pages. The hard things are keeping mysql updated continually so things like forums don't get all screwed up (this probably means mysql in one location, because mirroring it continually is too slow itself).

    Anyway, good luck with that setup
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  19. #19
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    Hi guys thanks for the answers. Well it is ok if you guys say there is a big gap or something or that I asked it for fun.No one will not belive it I guess and will think what will the site be about and other stuff but getting such visitors is just a matter of 2-3 months because I know what I read....I mean the site is owned by a client and someday you might end up visiting it. As for postnig the domain at the moment, the client does not want it to be posted.

    So not for fun but asking a real question cause normally I don't ask questions for fun

    As for the site, it has more than 24 languages and yes it will be dynamic.Everything will be on the db!.

    What I wanted was to know the kind of bandwidth they will use - that is the main reason I posted the question for cause the client wants to know what is the possible bandwidth(in GB) it can use.

    As for the gap it is high but certain people can make something that will turn out to be talk of the town and some will create something that will turn out to be talk of the world so I will just see and wait.

    Already the traffic the is getting is good but what is lying ahead is better.

    I heard good things about Rackspace but they do seem to be pretty expensive.

    Thanks again guys. More questions and suggestions are welcome

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooshin View Post
    What I wanted was to know the kind of bandwidth they will use - that is the main reason I posted the question for cause the client wants to know what is the possible bandwidth(in GB) it can use.
    Average size of a page * no of pages viewed
    is the simplest guestimate

    So if a page including all elements (html, css, images, movies, etc) is 300Kb and you have 10,000 visitors in a month who each look at 12 pages, then you can expect ...

    300 * 10000 * 12 = appx 36Gb of transfer
    scale as appropriate

  21. #21
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    Yeah I understand now adding that to the traffic on the mysql server.

  22. #22
    if you are really expecting that many hits and visitors with a db intensive site - you should probably look at mysql load balancing - which can get pretty involved, especially if you want it to scale properly. There are issues like session handling etc you need to deal with. Based on what you have said, you can probably start with a "few" load balanced web server nodes and can always add more as required. To start with, depending on your actual current utilization - mysql replication will probably meet your needs - but, you should have a roadmap towards full mysql load balancing so that they can share storage and you can effectively add additional nodes as required.

    How much traffic are you currently receiving and what is your growth rate over the last 6 months? has there been a recent spike in growth rate that is stimulating these sorts of questions and leading you to believe that 7M uniques per day will be achieved?

  23. #23
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    thanks for the answer. There has been a good growth in the last six months and due to the category of the site and its content such numbers are currently estimates but in the upcoming one to two months that number will be reached. When I write this and someone reads it he/she will have many things to say like some already said but I will post the url someday when it is fully ready so that you can see it to yourself

  24. #24
    200.000.000 x 200 x 30 = 1.200 TB bandwidth/month=4 Gbps Considering you need to accommodate spikes in traffic, you will need 7-8 Gbps in bandwidth alone. You will also need over 300 database servers, or some sort of supercomputer cluster. You will also need almost the same number of webservers.

  25. #25
    I am also waiting to know the name of the url

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by techs24x7 View Post
    I am also waiting to know the name of the url
    Me too, I want to be the 7th million visitor!
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  27. #27
    I'm confused. The site is already up and running, but the client doesn't want the few dozen hits that will come from webhostingtalk?

  28. #28
    phreek338 Guest
    I believe your best choice is to use Load balancing between a few servers. That way the website will not always use the same server and everything should work smoothly.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by phreek338 View Post
    I believe your best choice is to use Load balancing between a few servers. That way the website will not always use the same server and everything should work smoothly.

    Thats not really the question - chances are, the person posting is currently working with them or trying to land a contract and doesnt want to give up that information - I dont blame them...

    however, what I "think" we are seeing here is what happens alot in this industry. People want to plan for global success - it is always a challenge to try and show people - ok - this is what you need as of right now and build it in such a way that will allow you to scale on demand. This sort of 7M to 200M visitors makes this impossible to scope out for them. What I have been trying to do is say ok - here is what a scalable system, capable of handling 50-100 mbps will look like and roughly what it will cost you - and if you configure it this way, it will allow you to scale - but, in order to set this up properly, you need to share how many visitors and traffic you are currently getting and what the growth rate looks like. But, doesnt look like this info is going to be shared - so, best advise I can give is build and spec a system that will meet your requirements today - and if the growth rate is significant, ensure you have enough capacity to accomodate growth over the next quarter - and ensure you are able to add additional nodes to web,mail, DB and Storage as required to accomodate the expected growth.

    If you honestly believe that you are going to go from 100 mbps to 4 gbps overnight - then hopefully they have the backing in place to build such a system - but, that would be a foolish way of going about things unless you were 10000% certain of those numbers and were basing them on pre-established historical data with concrete results orientated marketing intelligence on hand.

  30. #30
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    7 million! That's more traffic than yahoo gets per day.
    You're going to need multiple high end servers. Or a mini data center.
    I'd call rackspace.
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  31. #31
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    It is not possible to get 7 miilion daily uniques... unless you are buying Yahoo, Gooogle or the whole Time Warner network.
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  32. #32
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    Cool

    I know this is the dumb question but I noticed he said in one post based on current "hits" it may get 7m "hits"...that's a lot different than 7m uniques.

    But for millions of visitors & dynamic content you will need many racks and a engineer to calculate what will go in those racks...the routers/switches/balancers/web servers/data devices, maybe a mail server or 2... you are looking at serious bucks and if Rackspace can't handle what you are doing now with some room for growth better be looking for that infrastructure engineer.
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  33. #33
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    well I would sell the site lol retire early...

    but if you didn't want to do that, go ahead and check out ThePlanet, I had ded servers off them for awhile, excellent service... excellent up-time... excellent everything.

  34. #34
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    Hi guys thanks for all the answers. DDT 7 M is unique.CartikaHosting, it is true the client doesn't want a lot of information to be shared as this might be some sort of pre-mature.Duffx, A guy who is certain he will get 7M visitors will not care much about a possible traffic from this thread at the moment but that sound't mean it will not provide some of the hits when that number is reached as I will post the url.

    Do you have to be like Yahoo or Google to get such traffic?Do you have to buy one of their sites?I guess those questions have no base because it is possible to get such traffic or success without having a lot of to spend.

    Hopefully I will be able to post the url of the site someday

    thanks again.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kooshin View Post
    Do you have to be like Yahoo or Google to get such traffic?
    No but you have to have a significant budget for hardware/infrastructure and transit - just imagine
    7,000,000 visitors/month accessing say just 5Mb each
    - you're then looking at switche, loadbalancers, multiple high-end servers, raid clustered back-end servers, Gb/s of transit, and a $50k+/month bill

  36. #36
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    Yeah i know but once that number is close then they money is there as far as i know. $50K + monthly will not be that much according to what the client will make daily.....more than that

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by kooshin View Post
    Yeah i know but once that number is close then they money is there as far as i know. $50K + monthly will not be that much according to what the client will make daily.....more than that
    It doesn't matter what the client will make daily. Nobody will setup this without paying at least a month in advance+a considerable setup fee. 50K$ is nothing. Only the bandwidth will be over 50.000$. So you better hire somebody that can design a cluster, start small, and ad new servers and bandwidth as you go. Everybody told you the same, but if you don't want to listen, it's your choice.

  38. #38
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    I'd be willing to bet it's MyYearbook.
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  39. #39
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    You know what, with the the figures (server, hardware, etc.) getting thrown around, why doesn't anyone recommend the OP getting himself/herself a dedicated datacenter with complete backbone access and a 24/7/365 on-site tech support team with several redundant backup clusters for the data?

    This can't be done with one person either. 7 million visitors per day is a lot of traffic.

    I'm being completely serious in the first paragraph. I just can't even wrap my head around what would be needed to support that many visitors. I'm also curious as to the domain that is generating / going to generate 7 million visitors per day.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andan View Post
    This can't be done with one person either. 7 million visitors per day is a lot of traffic.
    Of course. At 7M uniques/day it would go over estabilished websites like deviantart, buy.com, usatoday, etc: and near monsters like the New York Times (9-10M/day uniques).

    Of course with such volumes you've a dedicated tech team of engineers, no investor would be so stupid to contract with someone obviously clueless, that's why this thread is just a joke. Can't believe someone is taking it seriously :-)
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