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  1. #1

    The Grid Layer - Reloaded

    From what I learned so far, 3Tera's AppLogic could be the expeditor of a lot of small and medium dreams. I read the whopping 28 pages thread about TGL, it sure got my juices running. With enough time, the grid could evolve into something close to a Matrix (and hence the thread title).

    Yet it seems it wasn't stable yet (at that time). And 3Tera and TGL were talking about features yet to come. So my question is:

    Is their service stable yet?

  2. #2
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    No. There is a reason there are no threads about it in recent months.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by utropicmedia-karl View Post
    No. There is a reason there are no threads about it in recent months.
    I tend to think that no news is good news. What do you think?

  4. #4
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    That it's DOA.


    You could have simply looked at the lack of activity on their forums to arrive at the same conclusion.



    Regards,

  5. #5
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    Ummm Care to expand on your findings of our TGL product being DOA? That is pure and utter FUD. Just because your average shared web hosting providers are not using it does not mean its not being adopted or used by others in the IT and internet industries.

    There has been a wide range of improvements made on both Applogic and TheGridlayer with such things as a increased line of chassis offerings from basic 2.4+ghz PATA based chassis all the way upto 4 way 4 core 8 x SAS drive offering and more inbetween. 3tera has also been very busy with numerous improvements to the Applogic Editor interface and also to provide support for a broader line of hardware including now support for both 32 bit and 64 bit OS's and hardware offerings. There is also now very beta support for Windows and Solaris that is in further production along with more.

    We have also expanded the maximum sized backbones for a single grid from 48 nodes to 110 nodes and are working with 3tera to take that even higher.

    Please see our forums or the support.3tera.net forums for more in depth details or contact our sales team directly. TheGridLayer or Applogic are anything but dead.


    Thanks,

    Jeremy

  6. #6
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    I made an inference, just like the OP did as to it being the "expeditor of a lot of small and medium dreams." Mine was based on the inactivity of your forums and the lack of discussion on this board.

    I'm sure AppLogic has its place as I have had length discussions with the lead developer on this board, IMO its niche is smaller then I think people originally thought.



    Best Regards,

  7. #7
    Always refreshing hearing from seniors.

    Quote Originally Posted by LTADMIN View Post
    Ummm Care to expand on your findings of our TGL product being DOA? That is pure and utter FUD. Just because your average shared web hosting providers are not using it does not mean its not being adopted or used by others in the IT and internet industries.
    FUD is legit. And wide adoption is neither the concern, nor the question. The question was about stability. Narrow adoption, though, says a thing or two. Yet British Telecom says something too.

    There has been a wide range of improvements made on both Applogic and TheGridlayer with such things as a increased line of chassis offerings from basic 2.4+ghz PATA based chassis all the way upto 4 way 4 core 8 x SAS drive offering and more inbetween. 3tera has also been very busy with numerous improvements to the Applogic Editor interface and also to provide support for a broader line of hardware including now support for both 32 bit and 64 bit OS's and hardware offerings. There is also now very beta support for Windows and Solaris that is in further production along with more.

    We have also expanded the maximum sized backbones for a single grid from 48 nodes to 110 nodes and are working with 3tera to take that even higher.
    1. I guess this more affects the VPD offerings. How does this affect the VPS offerings? (The case I'm personally more interested in)

    2. This seems to more reflect on your hardware capacity, not the stability of TGL and AppLogic.

    Please see our forums or the support.3tera.net forums for more in depth details or contact our sales team directly. TheGridLayer or Applogic are anything but dead.
    I'm sure (at least hope) they're not dead. But this brings me to probably my major pain: The responsiveness of LT. I felt the same in a lot of posts, then felt it directly. I contacted sales [NPV-69641-676]; their first response took about 46 hours. I replied as soon as I woke up, and have been waiting for 47 hours now. Your appreciated response here was a whole lot faster.

    If support is anywhere near this, no matter how perfect the hardware/software is, the end service will suffer.

    Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them - Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by utropicmedia-karl View Post
    I made an inference, just like the OP did as to it being the "expeditor of a lot of small and medium dreams." Mine was based on the inactivity of your forums and the lack of discussion on this board.

    I'm sure AppLogic has its place as I have had length discussions with the lead developer on this board, IMO its niche is smaller then I think people originally thought.



    Best Regards,
    I think the niche is there. IMO it might be even larger than the owners themselves would prospect. What's truly needed is stable application.

    In the numerous posts and sentiments, you do not find people un-convinced or un-attracted, you find them reluctant.
    Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them - Albert Einstein

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by khfinity View Post
    Always refreshing hearing from seniors.



    FUD is legit. And wide adoption is neither the concern, nor the question. The question was about stability. Narrow adoption, though, says a thing or two. Yet British Telecom says something too.

    1. I guess this more affects the VPD offerings. How does this affect the VPS offerings? (The case I'm personally more interested in)

    2. This seems to more reflect on your hardware capacity, not the stability of TGL and AppLogic.

    I'm sure (at least hope) they're not dead. But this brings me to probably my major pain: The responsiveness of LT. I felt the same in a lot of posts, then felt it directly. I contacted sales [NPV-69641-676]; their first response took about 46 hours. I replied as soon as I woke up, and have been waiting for 47 hours now. Your appreciated response here was a whole lot faster.

    If support is anywhere near this, no matter how perfect the hardware/software is, the end service will suffer.


    I have updated your ticket to answer your questions. Please let us know if you have any further. The TGL sales team is limited right now due to the holiday season but our TGL support staff is still on 24/7 throughout the holidays.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LTADMIN View Post
    I have updated your ticket to answer your questions. Please let us know if you have any further. The TGL sales team is limited right now due to the holiday season but our TGL support staff is still on 24/7 throughout the holidays.

    Thanks,

    Jeremy
    I replied to the ticket.

    Back to WHT, would you kindly address the points in my post above?
    Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them - Albert Einstein

  11. #11
    I think Applogic is very good for many things, but not for hosting YET, I didn't try it but if you read the status page of MT Grid you will find that your average server is more stable.

  12. #12
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    1. I guess this more affects the VPD offerings. How does this affect the VPS offerings? (The case I'm personally more interested in)
    The increased allows us to offer all of our shared grid 'VPS' offerings and also the VPDCs on the wide range of hardware. We currently for example have shared grids using (Bronze) Intel / AMD 2.4ghz, (Silver) P4 3+ GHZ / (Gold) Single Core Opteron / (Platinum )Dual Core Opteron offerings on the shared grids. These allow you to have a VPS on that class of grid and scale out from the base package to whatever you need on the shared grids or at a later date into a VPDC.


    2. This seems to more reflect on your hardware capacity, not the stability of TGL and AppLogic.

    Applogic did have some issues during our launch back in Nov 2006 but since then has resolved all open issues we have brought up with them and made numerous improvements to improve performance, stability and scalability of their OS. TGL has been working with 3tera and others to better learn the Applogic OS and its quirks. We have more experience with it now then any other DC out there with numerous companies using the platform to host their applications. We have also been working to find the best hardware platforms to run Appologic on and testing hardware against new hardware vendors to continue to expand the offerings.


    Thanks,

    Jeremy

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Mhost View Post
    I think Applogic is very good for many things, but not for hosting YET, I didn't try it but if you read the status page of MT Grid you will find that your average server is more stable.

    Media Temple grids do not run on Applogic and have nothing to do with TheGridLayer and our competition in some ways.

    Regards,

    Jeremy

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 2Mhost View Post
    I think Applogic is very good for many things, but not for hosting YET,
    What do you think it's better for?

    I didn't try it but if you read the status page of MT Grid you will find that your average server is more stable.
    What page? Would you care to share a link with us?
    Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them - Albert Einstein

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by LTADMIN View Post
    Applogic did have some issues during our launch back in Nov 2006 but since then has resolved all open issues we have brought up with them and made numerous improvements to improve performance, stability and scalability of their OS. TGL has been working with 3tera and others to better learn the Applogic OS and its quirks. We have more experience with it now then any other DC out there with numerous companies using the platform to host their applications. We have also been working to find the best hardware platforms to run Appologic on and testing hardware against new hardware vendors to continue to expand the offerings.
    I read that upgrading AppLogic, requires taking the whole grid down. How often and long is this?

    I also read that you were aiming at lowering the automatic failover, from 5-10 minutes down to 30 seconds. Where is this now?
    Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them - Albert Einstein

  16. #16

    TGL Customers

    Any TGL customers out there?

    It's been over a year since the initial fuss. So it would be great sharing your experience with us.
    Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them - Albert Einstein

  17. #17
    I'd like to know this as well.

  18. #18
    TLADMIN: this is the first time I know that MT does not use Applogic! so thank you for the correction.

    I did a lot of research last month about the grid thing, one of the resources was the blog of TGL where I read that cPanel grid is somehow in beta (I think, beta version 4!, blog post was in July...right?) .... so I thought .. which will be more stable? today grid or put what I'll pay for applogic to get better hardware and put less customers in each server?

    for me, I think the second solution is better ... GRID is good for marketing, you will offer something sexy but I can't stand failures here and there until things become stable after months ..

    let we see what will happen after a year!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by khfinity View Post
    What page? Would you care to share a link with us?
    http://weblog.mediatemple.net/weblog...incidents/feed

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by 2Mhost View Post
    I did a lot of research last month about the grid thing, one of the resources was the blog of TGL where I read that cPanel grid is somehow in beta (I think, beta version 4!, blog post was in July...right?) ....
    I think what's still beta, is the cPanel Cluster: a pre-packaged AppLogic setup, that configures a cPanel based cluster. I believe the standard cPanel install is now stable.

    so I thought .. which will be more stable? today grid or put what I'll pay for applogic to get better hardware and put less customers in each server? for me, I think the second solution is better ...
    True. But you're talking about a huge cost difference. With TGL, you're paying fees comparable to VPSes. With your multi server setup, you're paying for the individual servers + clustering fees/hardware. Also with TGL, you do not pay any licensing for AppLogic. As far a as I know, they only license for host providers or large enterprises.

    GRID is good for marketing, you will offer something sexy
    I'd say it's more like voluptuous.


    but I can't stand failures here and there until things become stable after months ..

    let we see what will happen after a year!
    True again. Yet a similar discussion took place more than a year ago. Actually that's why I created this thread: Where has all this become now?
    Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them - Albert Einstein

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Williams View Post
    Yes, seems pretty unstable. Yet as TLADMIN mentioned, and 2Mhost observed, MT does not use AppLogic. I think it offers reseller accounts in a clustered environment.
    Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them - Albert Einstein

  22. #22
    THe service seems interesting. I'd like to learn more about this as well.

    I'd like to see previous experiences...

  23. #23
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    * AppLogic very much alive

    Quote Originally Posted by utropicmedia-karl View Post
    That it's DOA.
    I am happy to report AppLogic is very much alive and growing like mushrooms after rain. We just had our second birthday , read about it in Bert's blog: http://3tera.com/hotcluster.html?fb_...7_anch=3659304 . We've also got a variety of awards, check out the home page.

    We have been quite busy to visit other people's forums -- which, in hindsight, is not very smart . Thanks to Jeremy (LTADMIN) for jumping in.

    You can see some of the discussions on our support forum. I particularly like the issue we're currently working on -- a customer running well-loaded gameservers is observing a 1-2 second lag a few times a day (http://support.3tera.net/showthread.php?t=230). It is a fun problem to resolve; AppLogic has the tools to do it. Or the problem with being limited to dispatching traffic to only 15 servers (we're not and we tell you how to get more bandwidth, too).

    Also see our benchmark results from last year, on a 116-server grid built together with TGL, at http://www.3tera.com/benchmark_results.html

    All the best,

    -- Peter

    ==========================================
    www.3tera.com - the innovator in grid and utility computing
    Last edited by PeterNic; 03-04-2008 at 12:28 AM.

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