View Poll Results: Should we keep the Social Issues forum?
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Yes.
66 49.25% -
No.
68 50.75%
Results 176 to 200 of 314
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11-18-2007, 10:12 AM #176New Member
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I voted yes
This section makes this forum richer. People can come here, and speak about life things, news, etc. Opinions they have in their heart.
It doesn't need to gain the forum much, but it gains the members themselves.
That's why I voted yes
I am a bit curious...For those who voted no, what is the next your guys/ladies would like to delete on this forum?0
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11-18-2007, 10:26 AM #177Disabled
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what you say here is also angering more and more people in the community. for the people you speak of, religious people (it is absolutely clear that this is the issue now from you naysayers posts) do not make majority of people anywhere in the world, leave aside web hosting talk community. i, for one, am very annoyed with the spanish inquisitionary "hang them all" demeanor exhibited in your post. im sure there are many others like me. no, im not sure - there are.
If the SI forum is not to be removed, fine, at least start cleaning up the place and make it a decent place to "express" one's "opinion" in a calm collected manner, like in the regular forums. You can start by banning the users who consistently harp on the same subject -- it doesn't take very long to breeze through that forum and find out who.
I'm also curious to know what the heads of iNet think of that forum. Allowing certain users to continue promoting their hate wares on a forum orientated towards an industry that they [iNet] makes their living off just doesn't seem right to me.
noone is forced to go to any house of worship, so they just dont go, and do not ask for closedown of houses of worship. but i see, religious people are not of the same mentality - on grounds of debatable 'sensitivities', they want other people to be gagged. unacceptable. it just doesnt seem right to me.
i also would like to take attention to the fact that half of the voters want that forum. again, if votes are any indicator, and they are, that means probably half of wht would be annoyed with such inquisitionary acts like closing down of a forum just because some debatable 'sensitivities' of some people do not allow free speech for others, totally foregoing the other half.
That idea someone else had, about splitting the SI section into its own forum like FreeWHT is also a fantastic concept, me thinks. The SI forum gets enough readership and people viewing that they can do their trolling and flaming on a separate site.0
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11-18-2007, 10:30 AM #178Disabled
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Additionally, if it boils down to 'religious sensitivities' or free speech on the net, free speech wins hands down. Internet is a free place, built by people who generally tend to be free minded, free spirited, as even the framework of internet was laid in that manner, leave aside its development. Just refer to slashdot, digg.
Nowadays the medieval enmity of religious people against whomever do not think like the same way they do is just 'beautified' under the guise of the fantastic 'sensitivity' word.
For sure that readership of social issues forum would duly go and found other forums to discuss what they are not allowed in this industry forum due to bigotry and medieval mindedness of some others. After all, noone wants to regularly go to a watercooler around which they are not allowed to talk.0
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11-18-2007, 10:36 AM #179Disabled
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Again, Lounge and social issues are watercoolers in this forum.
This forum is a web hoster/i.t. professionals forum. Leave aside colleagueship, many of us are actually doing business together in various forms and intervals. Leave aside being something natural, it is a NECESSITY for professionals to gather around watercoolers.
Separating the social issues/lounge to a new site is just a dumb idea, in that a watercooler without the actual office is pointless. There are such similar sites already, and people who regular si forum here are already regularing those too, and discussing there.
But what si forum in wht does is, it lets you actually to chat with YOUR colleagues in the industry. Which is vital.
I never heard people being banned from talking any particular topic around a watercooler anywhere. And even if as such, people would not prefer such workplaces/environments in which they are gagged due to oversensitivity and intolerance of some people over the others.0
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11-18-2007, 10:46 AM #180Web Hosting Master
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I must have missed that part where I was talking about 'religious people'?
It's clear your just trying to start some flame, so I'm just going to ignore most of your comments about you how 'feel' about this or that. Let's try to stay on topic, this is not the SI forum or the Lounge.
you speak as if you are actually reading and regularing that forum. then why didnt you take the necessary steps of reporting whomever did that "consistent harping on the same subject" atrocity ? and you are also mentioning that it wouldnt take too much work as to find out who did it, so you know where, how, and when and who. why not just report ? instead of even defending closure of a forum that many people are using with pleasure everyday ? (actually if votes any indicator, around 50% of the users)
In my personal issues I am a person of bias, like we all are, but I keep my opinions to myself in the business world, and WHT is, to me (and I assume also the other people that voted to remove the SI forum) a place of business and the method of discussion in certain topics doesn't belong here.
what you see as 'hate' is just expressing one's opinion to another. and what you see as 'religious sensitivity' is preventing free speech of another.
noone is forced to go to any house of worship, so they just dont go, and do not ask for closedown of houses of worship. but i see, religious people are not of the same mentality - on grounds of debatable 'sensitivities', they want other people to be gagged. unacceptable. it just doesnt seem right to me.
i also would like to take attention to the fact that half of the voters want that forum. again, if votes are any indicator, and they are, that means probably half of wht would be annoyed with such inquisitionary acts like closing down of a forum just because some debatable 'sensitivities' of some people do not allow free speech for others, totally foregoing the other half.
whats this 'spillout' you speak of ? are you talking about milk ?
Your not making any sense, what part of my suggestion about going the way of FreeWHT and making the SI forum it's own iNet entity did you not understand?0
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11-18-2007, 11:01 AM #181Disabled
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i was not referring directly to you, what you defend here, the scuttling of si forum, is something that came forth from the sensitivities of religious people. some actually mentioned it in this thread, and from the tone and pointers in many others' posts it can directly be deduced, linking them with the recent topics in si forum.
It's clear your just trying to start some flame, so I'm just going to ignore most of your comments about you how 'feel' about this or that. Let's try to stay on topic, this is not the SI forum or the Lounge.
save the word games please, as you have taken the liberty of expressing how you felt and thought about the si forum, i have taken the same liberty. if you are not able to respect or understand this concept, we shouldnt be exchanging anything at all, let alone posts.
No, I speak as a paying advertiser and frequent member of this entire forum. I use it for it's intended purpose, to interact with the industry of customers and fellow providers that I am in.
That's the real issue here, not whether I should start reporting people left and right. It's difficult to report those particular posts and not be accused of having any bias, because we all do.
are you incapable as to do that ? or you just cant tolerate some people actually may be speaking some stuff you dont like somewhere ?
In my personal issues I am a person of bias, like we all are, but I keep my opinions to myself in the business world, and WHT is, to me (and I assume also the other people that voted to remove the SI forum) a place of business and the method of discussion in certain topics doesn't belong here.
noone is going and discussing anything social in dedicated server forum, or domain names with websites. so WHAT is the problem ? the fact that someone MIGHT be talking something you dont like, somewhere ? im saying 'might', because someone who actually didnt go and read threads in si forum wouldnt know what has been talked there.
Again, I never really mentioned religion. It's clear religion and religious people are on your mind though, because that's all you seem to be posting about.
The people that post hateful topics against a particular race or culture always use that old 'freedom of speech' excuse. You don't even know what that means or at what price freedom truly comes at, because it really isn't free. Maybe one day you'll find out.
Your not making any sense, what part of my suggestion about going the way of FreeWHT and making the SI forum it's own iNet entity did you not understand?
there is no 'spillout' of anything in SI forum. actually, there is no spillout of anyone or any topic of si forum, but there are spill-in of other people who purport to not see any value in SI forum whatsoever, YET, go in, read and dislike whats in there.
which is ironical and contradictory, for someone who does not see any value or any interest in something, does not go and use it. Just as many other technical forums included in wht, but not regulared by all members.
so, this is a solution in search of a problem. there is no problem in that, if you dont think SI forum is something useful, you just ignore it and go by your business.0
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11-18-2007, 11:06 AM #182Cloud & Web Hosting Specialist
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Ok, that's enough.
No more "fighting", ok?
WHT is a place where all hosting providers and clients meet, not to fight.
Thank you.[ James Lee - Cloud & Web Hosting Specialist • 10+ Years WHT Veteran]
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11-18-2007, 11:10 AM #183Disabled
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argumentation and counter-argumentation is not fighting. it is called 'debate', in any of the world's languages.
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11-18-2007, 11:49 AM #184Disabled
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Where do you get your nonsense from?
If I were a campaign worker, you would surely know about it because I wouldn't deny it and I would gladly acknowledge it.
But, the reason I state that the SI forum at WHT needs to be terminated is because it's apparently not equipped to handle the discussions. The administrators and moderators are best equipped to handle hosting or technical issues. The SI forum very likely gets the most use, or most views, or most threads of any of WHT's forums. That requires that WHT assign manpower to monitoring a forum which they're not equipped to handle. A social issues forum needs dedicated manpower and knowledgeable people to oversee the discussions.
Also, WHT is not "liberal" in the "democracy" side of discussions. In other words, threads or posts can be removed or modified, and there are many members who are overly sensitive and go screaming to "mommy moderator" at the slightest hint of an insult or perceived insult. I engage in discussion in other forums where you don't get banned or get warning points simply for calling into question somebody's intelligence. Even calling somebody stupid (where warranted) is tolerated. WHT is not that kind of place and no doubt the powers at WHT want it that way. All in all, there are many other forums that are better equipped and better designed and better managed, and where freedom of expression is more "liberal". "Liberal" is this case is not the same as the political "liberal". "Liberal" in the case of speech means more tolerant of different opinions and not being so sensitive as to not allow certain expressions of disgust with some people.
Anyhow, whichever way WHT goes with its SI forum is fine with me. There many thousands of other forums which are better suited for political or religious discussions. If WHT keeps its SI forum, then I no doubt will engage in the discussions as I have in the past.
If WHT stays in the SI forums business, then I would welcome the decision since it would just be another link for a project which I've been working on. My project concerns the linking of news, views, information, and discussions. Sort of like a "search engine" which ties together all issues and discussions and opinions. WHT would fall into the discussions side of my project. And that is the biggest reason why I haven't engaged too much in discussion in the SI forum. And that also is the biggest reason why I might still not have too much time to engage in WHT discussions. Too busy with my project.0
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11-18-2007, 12:01 PM #185Disabled
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typical adorno. good to see you in shape. im on the verge of saying 'good to have you back', but, i digress.
If I were a campaign worker, you would surely know about it because I wouldn't deny it and I would gladly acknowledge it.
But, the reason I state that the SI forum at WHT needs to be terminated is because it's apparently not equipped to handle the discussions.
The administrators and moderators are best equipped to handle hosting or technical issues. The SI forum very likely gets the most use, or most views, or most threads of any of WHT's forums. That requires that WHT assign manpower to monitoring a forum which they're not equipped to handle. A social issues forum needs dedicated manpower and knowledgeable people to oversee the discussions.
as you know, there are many seasoned human beings in wht moderation, and im pretty sure they are well able to handle anything from children in their backyard to charity bingo sessions for the elderly, as well as moderation of a si forum. and they do.
Also, WHT is not "liberal" in the "democracy" side of discussions. In other words, threads or posts can be removed or modified, and there are many members who are overly sensitive and go screaming to "mommy moderator" at the slightest hint of an insult or perceived insult. I engage in discussion in other forums where you don't get banned or get warning points simply for calling into question somebody's intelligence. Even calling somebody stupid (where warranted) is tolerated. WHT is not that kind of place and no doubt the powers at WHT want it that way. All in all, there are many other forums that are better equipped and better designed and better managed, and where freedom of expression is more "liberal". "Liberal" is this case is not the same as the political "liberal". "Liberal" in the case of speech means more tolerant of different opinions and not being so sensitive as to not allow certain expressions of disgust with some people.
yet, noone expects wht to be 'liberal'. any forum needs to be refraining from taking sides. destroying a si forum because some members are overly 'sensitive' to anything than a 5 year old saying 'dad-dy' would be taking sides. which, is something you propose.
Anyhow, whichever way WHT goes with its SI forum is fine with me. There many thousands of other forums which are better suited for political or religious discussions. If WHT keeps its SI forum, then I no doubt will engage in the discussions as I have in the past.
after all, this is what politics is about.
you would engage discussions if wht moved SI forum to a tibetan monastery.
If WHT stays in the SI forums business, then I would welcome the decision since it would just be another link for a project which I've been working on. My project concerns the linking of news, views, information, and discussions. Sort of like a "search engine" which ties together all issues and discussions and opinions. WHT would fall into the discussions side of my project. And that is the biggest reason why I haven't engaged too much in discussion in the SI forum. And that also is the biggest reason why I might still not have too much time to engage in WHT discussions. Too busy with my project.0
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11-18-2007, 12:03 PM #186Web Hosting Master
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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine0
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11-18-2007, 12:12 PM #187Dennis Johnson
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If you want to call it censorship, that's fine. We absolutely do censor discussions. We're not about to let anyone call you a ***** or other grossly derogatory terms. So, sure, we censor.
Basically, I think you have me confused with someone that wants to get rid of controversial topics. If that were true, I wouldn't have started this thread asking for feedback. I would have simply deleted the forum and barred those topics from other areas.
But I did start this discussion to gain feedback from members on whether they valued those topics or if they felt those topics did not belong on WHT.
When I started this thread, we adjusted permissions for the SI forum so that you have to have the Ad Forum promotion (7 days of membership and 10 non-spammy posts) to even view that forum.
And, just like the ad forums, you can only start a thread once per seven days.
Just like the ad forums, I see Social Issues as a service granted to members for their contributions to WebHostingTalk. But sometimes I can miss things, so I ask the members what they see.
As it stands, it has the same rules we instituted when we first created it. And it appears they're in need of some tweaking (if the forum remains).There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.0
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11-18-2007, 12:25 PM #188Disabled
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and it should be done as such. but the perpetrators of this 'fix' to a non problem are not wanting that. they want stuff they dont want to hear scuttled.
When I started this thread, we adjusted permissions for the SI forum so that you have to have the Ad Forum promotion (7 days of membership and 10 non-spammy posts) to even view that forum.
And, just like the ad forums, you can only start a thread once per seven days.
Just like the ad forums, I see Social Issues as a service granted to members for their contributions to WebHostingTalk. But sometimes I can miss things, so I ask the members what they see.
As it stands, it has the same rules we instituted when we first created it. And it appears they're in need of some tweaking (if the forum remains).
these may address some issues, but wont satisfy the naysayers. because as can be understood from many of their topics, what they want is not moderation of misdemeanor (which is already done very well btw), but barring of talk on stuff that is disliked by their own belief system. that, you cant deliver without biased censorship.
the solution remains simple as it is - those people just dont need to go in there and thats that. if they are too weak-willed as to be tempted to go in, an option for that forum not to show anything if selected, not even itself, would remedy that.
there STILL will be people exceedingly weak-willed as to still turn the option on, go into si forum, read the threads, see things they dont like, and complain.
for those, noone can do anything, other than totally removing si forum. which would be a total foolishness. like trying to eradicate coca plant from the face of the world rather than sending drug using individuals to rehabilitation.0
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11-18-2007, 12:35 PM #189Disabled
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Btw,
I just cant understand, WHY those people who are complaining about some particular person or persons regularly opening threads and posting posts that they dont like, whereas there is an ignore utility that they can use to totally forget the existence of those members ? and go overboard as to request closure of a forum instead ?0
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11-18-2007, 12:38 PM #190Cloud & Web Hosting Specialist
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[ James Lee - Cloud & Web Hosting Specialist • 10+ Years WHT Veteran]
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11-18-2007, 12:41 PM #191Disabled
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You can just choose who to ignore. Spam - irrelevant. I
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11-18-2007, 12:43 PM #192
I just went through this thread and recorded the yes/no reasons. The list below doesn't include how many people gave the same or a similar reason, just the reasons themselves.
Reasons to keep SI
- We have topics not related to web hosting in the Lounge too.
- If you don't like the threads in SI, you don't have to read them.
- It serves a purpose as a break room, a place to chill out, a watercooler. It's a necessity for professionals to gather around watercoolers.
- Some of the discussions in SI are enlightening, and we can learn about global social issues and other topics from them.
- If we got rid of SI, the problems there would move elsewhere on the forum = more work for moderators.
- Some people choose to read SI threads even if they don't participate in them.
- They give you the opportunity to learn a lot about business owners that you might be working with.
- I've made good friends there after heated discussion.
- The benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
- It contributes to the liveliness of WHT. Discussion and confrontation in the social forum is what helps to give WHT its sense of being the best hosting forum on the net. It actually gives it that extra edge.
- If we close it and try to keep the Lounge free of such threads, it won't work because such SI threads will develop in the Lounge anyway. They might start out as non-controversial but become controversial, and we'd have nowhere to move them.
- I like controversy and the alternative view.
- Religion is not a personal matter. It affects policies, relations, social leanings, even the industry. Just because some people are sensitive about seeing their beliefs being discussed doesn't mean that other people have to be hampered because of them.
- Some folks are going to bring up these topics even if they're forbidden. Since these members give meaningful contributions in other sub-forums here, it'd be a disservice to remove the forum since they'll eventually get banned. It is possible to be a positive contributing member while having limited self control.
- Flame wars happen in other threads (like with overselling or "unlimited" shared hosting) so it's not like we're going to remove flame wars from WHT.
- Any message that is full of abuse or hatred is dealt with swiftly.
- It's a place to get insider information about situations in various countries, more than what's available on CNN.
- Political, social, and economic issues in various countries are relevant to the web hosting industry.
Reasons not to keep SI
- It's boring.
- This forum is about web hosting. Other topics don't belong here.
- I don't like/tolerate the topics discussed there.
- The topics are a problem. They break down into misconceptions and encourage anti-social trolling. ("it's always the few anti-socials on there that consistently spew out hatred")
- It's a burden on moderators.
- The problem is not the topics but the insulting and rude manner in which they're discussed.
- I don't talk about SI topics outside of WHT, so why should I talk about them here?
- Religion has no place here.
- It's not about the sensitivities. It's about the hatred and bashing some people are spreading.
- Even if we don't go there, we have to see SI thread titles when we view "New threads."
- WHT moderators shouldn't have to deal with the problem posts in SI. This is a web hosting forum and not connected with your right to expressing your political and religious opinions.
- There are plenty of other forums for political, religious, or any other issues.
- When the public can view SI, it doesn't give a good reflection of WHT/iNET.
In addition, some people who voted yes or no suggested that if we keep SI, it should be with some changes: different rules, different name, moderators specifically for that forum, sub-categories, ban problem users.
As SWR posted above, we've recently made some changes to it.
My take on the above is that generally speaking, the "yes" people have a broader view of the interconnectedness of the web hosting industry and the people in it, the world around us, and what they want WHT to be, while the "no" people have a more focused view of web hosting and WHT that includes keeping the forum free of discussions that aren't helpful to them and can be unpleasant for many.
LoisLast edited by writespeak; 11-18-2007 at 12:47 PM.
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11-18-2007, 01:03 PM #193Brian King of LLAMEDOS
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11-18-2007, 01:06 PM #194Web Hosting Master
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I'm not sure about other forums operated by INET but if they all contain a Social issues forum maybe they could start an other site just for that and link the SI on all their sites to that new forum ?
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11-18-2007, 01:08 PM #195Disabled
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11-18-2007, 01:09 PM #196Web Hosting Master
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I can't help but think this post is aimed at me, since I started the thread in this forum asking how to block certain WHT members because of the hate that they incite in the SI forum (my opinion).
My question was answered by the community, and I have gone ahead and taken those steps and blocked the users I find offending.
The question of whether SI should exist or not was brought upon by the mods of this forum, and it's an appropriate question that's been brought up and is being discussed. No one here is going 'overboard' except you, who is for some reason taking this entire discussion personally and trying to turn it into something that other people don't want.
Re-read the entire thread again, especially Writespeak's last post, it kind of made everything clear for everyone (or me, anyway) and certainly assists in coming up with a resolution for this issue. Your 'argumentation' is not helping your cause, I assure you.0
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11-18-2007, 01:12 PM #197
Suggested on page one.
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...8&postcount=19
Originally Posted by Brian2006Your one stop shop for decentralization
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11-18-2007, 01:30 PM #198Always Learning...
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A link to SI forum website,
I think my eyes have gone blind for the, oh let me have a look at them to make a list:
1) Premium Only Forums
2) Cobalt RaQ Forum
3) Colocation Forum
4) HostingCon
5) Domain Names Advertising
6) Free Hosting Offers and Requests (It just came to my head that it exists here)
It simple my mind simply don't register them of their existence.
If you will close down the recreation centre in the office (mind you this is not just a 9 to 5 job), sure since its my job I will be continuing, but sooner or later I will be worn out, I will still continue, but then I may be feeling irritated all the time, I may become snappy, I may not be having good relations with my friends, I may be quarreling and fighting with my colleagues, my language may become deteriorated, I may become less co-operative, and my downfall will start and will be kicked out of the office.
That's not just me, it can happen to any one.
I think there is a saying "All Work no Play makes you..." can't remember the whole thing.Vinsar.Net - Quality Web Hosting at Economical Price on USA & European Servers
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11-18-2007, 01:58 PM #199Brian King of LLAMEDOS
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Yes, the SI forum is a better alternative to; kicking the cat , your partner, or the kids.
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11-18-2007, 02:03 PM #200Newbie
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Certainly non of these posts is aimed at you, seankoons.
And certainly no one here is going 'overboard' - no exceptions!
You did good to go ahead and block the users you find offending.
Now if you don't like the SI forum ... do yourself a favor and stay out of it.
It's really that simple ... give it a try.http://www.ct-graphics.com :: photos and photo objects for web and print0