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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    This would only apply to hosts located within the United States. You can't transcribe US law globally.
    Agreed. When I spoke to Intercage, they did offer up IP addresses of posters. I'm not sure how that would work or if that's even something they would be able to technically supply or something we could use. Then again, we fall into that grey-area of copyright law where the posters are only posting infringing links. The problem is that there is no real case law in the US regarding this issue. Rumors in the adult industry is that's going to change very soon though.. along the lines of the RIAA/MPAA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    But don't think I do not agree with you - I do. I hope that you'll be able to sort out your tasks asap.
    Appreciate the info folks.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    The problem is that there is no real case law in the US regarding this issue. Rumors in the adult industry is that's going to change very soon though.. along the lines of the RIAA/MPAA.
    The case against The Pirate Bay in Sweden is based on "assisting copyright infringement". However our legal system is a little bit different as there must be a clear intent, not only hosting meta-links like The Pirate Bay does.

    Regarding RIAA/MPAA, US law does not apply internationally, but if you want to go after someone in another country, you'd have to use a legal agent located there and file in the local courts.

    In the case of Sweden, you'd have to start at the bottom of the scale and would not likely be able to get a verdict in form of fines that would be very heavy at all.

    How it works in other countries is of your interest is something you need to research on case to case basis. (Even if most hosts would read and act upon a takedown notice)


    EDIT: What you wrote about Intercage offering the IP-addresses of individual users is interesting, as in many places this would be in direct violation of the law regarding electronical communications).
    Last edited by Henrik; 03-02-2008 at 02:33 PM. Reason: added something I overlooked

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    The case against The Pirate Bay in Sweden is based on "assisting copyright infringement". However our legal system is a little bit different as there must be a clear intent, not only hosting meta-links like The Pirate Bay does.

    Regarding RIAA/MPAA, US law does not apply internationally, but if you want to go after someone in another country, you'd have to use a legal agent located there and file in the local courts.

    In the case of Sweden, you'd have to start at the bottom of the scale and would not likely be able to get a verdict in form of fines that would be very heavy at all.
    I understand what you are saying. From my point of view, it wouldn't be of any real deterrence going after the foreign hosts (from a US enforcement perspective). Going after the domestic posters and US-based outfits assisting in infringement and ignoring DMCAs would be of some advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    How it works in other countries is of your interest is something you need to research on case to case basis. (Even if most hosts would read and act upon a takedown notice)

    EDIT: What you wrote about Intercage offering the IP-addresses of individual users is interesting, as in many places this would be in direct violation of the law regarding electronical communications).
    I am sure they would require a court order which we would get if needed.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    I understand what you are saying. From my point of view, it wouldn't be of any real deterrence going after the foreign hosts (from a US enforcement perspective). Going after the domestic posters and US-based outfits assisting in infringement and ignoring DMCAs would be of some advantage.
    Yes, that would be the path of least resistance for you.


    I am sure they would require a court order which we would get if needed.
    That depends on where you want to extract this information. Here, it takes an offense that gives more than 2 years in jail, and it was proven in courtcases that sharing copyright protected material illegally is not such an offense.

  5. #45
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    as a note, if we are really talking about atrivo/intercage - their IP ranges are blackholed/blacklisted from probably half the world.

    spam, childporn, exploits, warez, rbn crap.

    esthost runs off there, and it's practically "bulletproof" US-based hosting.
    semi-retired

  6. #46
    @Procyon Are these things on this ISP because they don't care or because they can't keep order on their network?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    @Procyon Are these things on this ISP because they don't care or because they can't keep order on their network?
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/?p=763

    Atrivo/Intercage do have *some* legitimate customers, and they can be very vocal. But the sheer quantity of abuse in their netblock, from exploits to fraud to KP to spam of all forms, outweighs the legit material by a mile IMO.

    And it’s no accident: they are unresponsive to complaints, and have admitted they won’t can Esthost - their biggest customer, CWS epicentre and #1 blackhat host in the world - despite being aware of the immense abuse they are responsible for.


    The other block listed by SANS, ‘Inhoster’, appears to be the same company as Esthost - as are Critical Internet, Estdomains and Web-Namez. This netblock used also to be Atrivo’s; it’s not clear to me whether that block is operated by Esthost themselves or by Atrivo for Esthost.


    Blocking single domain names is barely feasible any more: there are thousands to block and more new ones all the time. I consider blocking entire netblocks operated by Esthost and Atrivo a very reasonable and measured move.

    And, in fact, that up to half of Atrivo’s income is dependent on criminal activities, and that Atrivo knowingly (if passively) permits that criminal activity to continue.



    also, http://www.intercage.com/site/xcart/home.php - wtf is this
    Last edited by IPv6; 03-02-2008 at 03:25 PM.
    semi-retired

  8. #48
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    People are saying they're Hong Kong based, but that doesn't really matter if they're operating in the US, and they do have a US phone number, US mailing address, their own web site is hosted in the US, etc.

    I would mail a DMCA to:

    HostFresh, Inc
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA, 94134

    Then see what happens. That would also be the address to serve other legal documents to I'd imagine. With them also claiming to be HostFresh, Inc. that seems to indicate they have a US corporation, so feel free to sue the heck out of them. From what I can tell, the company is US based, as long as that is the case I don't believe it really matters where the data is.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
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  9. #49
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    whitepages says this

    Jafe Meltesen Lee
    home
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA 94134-2103
    (415) 656-1280
    =================
    Rong H & Denise Jeong
    home
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA 94134-2103
    (415) 468-5115
    semi-retired

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Procyon View Post
    whitepages says this

    Jafe Meltesen Lee
    home
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA 94134-2103
    (415) 656-1280
    =================
    Rong H & Denise Jeong
    home
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA 94134-2103
    (415) 468-5115
    I think they are Chinese Surnames. Probably just relatives I'm assuming.

    I reckon HostFresh will not do anything in regards to this guys DMCA claims.... I can imagine this guy trying to threaten some dude in like Vietnam with a DMCA order and the guy in Vietnam just reads it and laughs. lol.

    They've probably already got an email filter to delete emails with the word DMCA in it. If I can predict, HostFresh will do nothing and continue to ignore this guy's persistence. I think it was intential for that porn site mentioned to be hosted in Hong Kong.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Procyon
    Interesting read. I wonder how they get customers with no site though.

  12. #52
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    Didn't read the entire thread...

    Firstly HF is based out of Hong Kong, so check if the site is violating local HK laws. Your case wont hold good if its not.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Procyon View Post
    Thank you for the link

  14. #54
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    It doesn't matter where the site is if it is a US company as the company itself would still be bound by US copyright law, you can go after the US branch/location all you want, even if it IS just a relative, employee, etc. If that relative/employee finds it to be more trouble than it is worth then they may simply stop their "front" of being a US company.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation
    Now Open in New Jersey! - Contact us for New Jersey colocation or dedicated servers

  15. #55
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    sorry, wrong place.

  16. #56
    None of the site you mentioned is hosted within our network. Pornbb.org is hosted on our IP that was leased to another ISP.

    We'll try to take the IP space back.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    Bill,
    I found this forum , in a google search for "Hostfresh illegal" of all things, attempting to locate more information regarding your hosting operation. We have a number of issues we wish to address with you, however, you have made it virtually impossible for anyone to contact your operations. All of your support emails (including [email protected]) bounce. We have left a number of messages at 1-888-83FRESH to which nobody ever answers let alone return. We have also been in contact with your upstream transit provider, Intercage.com.

    You are hosting a few websites we'd like to speak with you about, the main one being pornbb.org. We represent some of the largest producers of online adult content on the internet with clients such as nastydollars.com, brazzers.com and bangbros.com. I highly recommend you contact me via email or by phone as as soon as possible. Thank you.

    [email protected]

  17. #57
    pornbb.org ip is 69.64.145.229

    Queried whois.arin.net with "69.64.145.229"...

    OrgName: eNom!
    OrgID: ENOM
    Address: 15801 NE 24th Street
    City: Bellevue
    StateProv: WA
    PostalCode: 98008
    Country: US
    Hosted by enom ?

  18. #58
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  19. #59
    dnsstuff traceroute ends with "Unknown - Firewall did not respond", here is what i get from a server at SL.

    # traceroute pornbb.org
    traceroute to pornbb.org (69.64.145.229), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
    1 server50.hosthat.com (74.86.200.33) 0.360 ms 0.330 ms 0.320 ms
    2 v63.dar02.dal01.dallas-datacenter.com (66.228.118.185) 0.309 ms 0.508 ms 0.499 ms
    3 po2.cer01.dal01.dallas-datacenter.com (66.228.118.202) 0.271 ms 0.459 ms 0.452 ms
    4 xe-4-3.r03.dllstx09.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (157.238.228.9) 0.679 ms 0.676 ms 0.900 ms
    5 ae-1.r21.dllstx09.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.4.181) 0.889 ms 0.879 ms 0.868 ms
    6 p16-1-0-0.r05.dllstx09.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.5.57) 0.600 ms 0.680 ms 0.684 ms
    7 so-7-0-1.mpr1.dfw2.us.above.net (64.125.12.53) 0.660 ms 0.652 ms 0.878 ms
    8 so-0-2-1.mpr1.ord2.us.above.net (64.125.30.250) 34.347 ms 34.340 ms 34.577 ms
    9 so-3-0-0.mpr2.ord7.us.above.net (64.125.30.145) 34.809 ms 34.799 ms 34.534 ms
    10 64.124.195.237.available.above.net (64.124.195.237) 35.270 ms 35.262 ms 35.253 ms
    11 69.64.145.229 (69.64.145.229) 34.490 ms 34.478 ms 34.466 ms
    #

    # whois 69.64.145.229
    [Querying whois.arin.net]
    [whois.arin.net]

    OrgName: eNom!
    OrgID: ENOM
    Address: 15801 NE 24th Street
    City: Bellevue
    StateProv: WA
    PostalCode: 98008
    Country: US

    NetRange: 69.64.144.0 - 69.64.159.255
    CIDR: 69.64.144.0/20
    OriginAS: AS21740
    NetName: ENOM-BLOCK
    NetHandle: NET-69-64-144-0-1
    Parent: NET-69-0-0-0-0
    NetType: Direct Assignment
    NameServer: HK1.NAME-SERVICES.COM
    NameServer: HK2.NAME-SERVICES.COM
    Comment:
    RegDate: 2007-07-25
    Updated: 2007-11-12

    RTechHandle: CMC102-ARIN
    RTechName: McDuffie, Christopher
    RTechPhone: +1-425-274-4500
    RTechEmail: [email protected]

    OrgTechHandle: BB1753-ARIN
    OrgTechName: Bronczyk, Bruce
    OrgTechPhone: +1-425-274-4500
    OrgTechEmail: [email protected]

    OrgTechHandle: CMP9-ARIN
    OrgTechName: Peeters, Christopher M
    OrgTechPhone: +1-425-274-4500
    OrgTechEmail: [email protected]

    # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2008-03-03 19:10
    # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
    #

  20. #60
    It is not a matter of a domain forward then?

  21. #61
    Join Date
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    600
    Quote Originally Posted by HostFresh View Post
    None of the site you mentioned is hosted within our network. Pornbb.org is hosted on our IP that was leased to another ISP.

    We'll try to take the IP space back.
    Shouldn't you make sure what they're doing is illegal before shutting down a customer?
    As in, you shouldn't do anything until you get a court order to do so?
    Dating Revolution Method - Book on how to meet and attract women

  22. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ewhost View Post
    Shouldn't you make sure what they're doing is illegal before shutting down a customer?
    As in, you shouldn't do anything until you get a court order to do so?
    Actually, pornbb.org has begun to address our Dmca requests several months after we sent them. It would seem word has been spread regarding this thread because they are cooperating now. In regards to who we work for, they no longer have an issue with them. I can't say the same for the other thousands of production companies out there being infringed upon.
    Last edited by ryc_eric; 03-04-2008 at 05:14 PM.

  23. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by flashwebhost View Post
    pornbb.org ip is 69.64.145.229



    Hosted by enom ?
    That's not them. Internap/Enom have nothing to do with them, in relation to hosting. Thx though.

  24. #64
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    1,108
    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    That's not them. Internap/Enom have nothing to do with them, in relation to hosting. Thx though.
    www.pornbb.org has address 116.50.11.98
    www.pornbb.org mail is handled by 5 eforwardct.name-services.com.
    www.pornbb.org mail is handled by 10 eforward4.name-services.com.
    98.11.50.116.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer 116-50-11-98.myrdns.com.
    inetnum: 116.50.8.0 - 116.50.15.255
    netname: HOSTFRESH
    descr: HostFresh
    descr: Internet Service Provider
    country: HK
    admin-c: PL466-AP
    tech-c: PL466-AP
    status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE
    mnt-by: APNIC-HM
    mnt-lower: MAINT-HK-HOSTFRESH
    mnt-routes: MAINT-HK-HOSTFRESH
    semi-retired

  25. #65
    @Prycyon You beat me to it, thanks mate

  26. #66
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    May 2002
    Posts
    180
    Wow where will this thread take us next. It's amazing what assumption people make by doing a simple google search.

    First I would suggest that if you have a DCMA complaint send it to the hosting party in the form of [email protected]. If you don't get a response maybe phone to see if it was received. I know this is a novel concept but we actually try to help people with any complaint someone might have. We can't give information through the phone but certainly can check if the DCMA came in.

    Secondly I am sorry but there is no way someone here will go to the post office just to pick up a piece of mail. Ohh and I think the post office wanted money for this also. Use UPS / Fedex it's a little more practical. A e-mail is just as good.

    Lastly is this the Eric that makes money from PornBB being up? This is the Eric that has been caught posting forum messages "requesting" certain content so that he can then send in a DCMA request? Apparently one can make quite a bit of money convincing companies that one will be a watchdog and send out DCMA's. But I find it a conflict of interest when the watchdog is requesting certain content for his benefit. From what I have been told is that when the message came up of shutting down the IP address, Eric sent a nice message requesting not to shut it down and that all parties are working together. I honestly don't care either way or represent HostFresh it's just funny to think of the DCMA party doing all this simply for a monetary gain.

    Thanks!

  27. #67
    If you would've actually read the posts in this thread, you'll see that I did send them only to have [email protected] bounce.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    If you don't get a response maybe phone to see if it was received. I know this is a novel concept but we actually try to help people with any complaint someone might have. We can't give information through the phone but certainly can check if the DCMA came in.
    I've talked to someone there on numerous occassions which has led to no resolution whatsoever. By the way, I know a certain in-house attorney who would really like to get in touch with someone there at Intercage. It seems he's having trouble as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    Secondly I am sorry but there is no way someone here will go to the post office just to pick up a piece of mail. Ohh and I think the post office wanted money for this also. Use UPS / Fedex it's a little more practical. A e-mail is just as good.
    All our correspondence has been sent certified. All returned as unclaimed. You're mistaken as certified mail is prepaid and all you do is sign for it. I'm sure if you guys had legal counsel you'd know this, however you do not which was confirmed by someone at Intercage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post

    Lastly is this the Eric that makes money from PornBB being up? This is the Eric that has been caught posting forum messages "requesting" certain content so that he can then send in a DCMA request? Apparently one can make quite a bit of money convincing companies that one will be a watchdog and send out DCMA's. But I find it a conflict of interest when the watchdog is requesting certain content for his benefit. From what I have been told is that when the message came up of shutting down the IP address, Eric sent a nice message requesting not to shut it down and that all parties are working together. I honestly don't care either way or represent HostFresh it's just funny to think of the DCMA party doing all this simply for a monetary gain.
    Thanks!
    This statement couldn't be further from the truth and I would love nothing more then this illegal file-sharing forum to be taken offline. My correspondence indicated that we don't want to disrupt anyone's operation and that we only want our client's copywritten content taken down. You have taken me out of context and be VERY careful about what you accuse me of "Goose". I won't tolerate your slander..or is it libel? I'll have my lawyer check.

  28. #68
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    May 2002
    Posts
    180
    Well it should not bounce and we can test it to make sure.

    I believe I spoke to you once, I haven't asked any of the technicians to see if they have spoken with you. But I am pretty certain that numerous would be a wrongful statement.

    Look I am not trying to get you all excited. Simply trying to show you the way to make sure your DCMA's are taken care of. If your going to send something send it Fedex or UPS it can require a signature also. But as I mentioned a e-mail followed by a phone call will save you a ton of time.

    I am not a representative of PornBB but it's a forum with links to files which are not on the server. There are zero files being distributed from the server.

    Lastly we are a dedicated server provider not a law firm. What in the world would we need a legal counsel for? And regarding certain remarks it was you who categorized the company as being "shady". I did not even put you as being the Eric in question.

    My job is also to make sure that our clients do not abuse our network. There was absolutely no need to characterize us in a negative manner or to imply opinions on a public forum.

    If you have any DCMA's please bring them to my attention and I certain they will be dealt with.

    Thanks!

  29. #69
    This thread is awesome. Eric's a smart guy. For him to have a job, there needs to be illegal content on the internet. If there is no illegal content, then he won't get paid.

    Keep the site operating but continue to monitor for content violation is a good business model.

    Though, I would really like to see how far Eric gets trying to send DMCA notices to Russian, Vietnamese, etc... data centers.

  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigaron View Post

    Though, I would really like to see how far Eric gets trying to send DMCA notices to Russian, Vietnamese, etc... data centers.

    To junkmail / spam inbox.

  31. #71
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    Atrivo another link in the chain with the RBN cyber-mafia, ref: http://rbnexploit.blogspot.com/

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    Well it should not bounce and we can test it to make sure.

    I believe I spoke to you once, I haven't asked any of the technicians to see if they have spoken with you. But I am pretty certain that numerous would be a wrongful statement.

    Look I am not trying to get you all excited. Simply trying to show you the way to make sure your DCMA's are taken care of. If your going to send something send it Fedex or UPS it can require a signature also. But as I mentioned a e-mail followed by a phone call will save you a ton of time.

    I am not a representative of PornBB but it's a forum with links to files which are not on the server. There are zero files being distributed from the server.

    Lastly we are a dedicated server provider not a law firm. What in the world would we need a legal counsel for? And regarding certain remarks it was you who categorized the company as being "shady". I did not even put you as being the Eric in question.

    My job is also to make sure that our clients do not abuse our network. There was absolutely no need to characterize us in a negative manner or to imply opinions on a public forum.

    If you have any DCMA's please bring them to my attention and I certain they will be dealt with.

    Thanks!
    You know, you sure do represent yourself well and set a great picture for the company you represent
    $this->hasFlavr() ? $nom->nom('nom') : $want->doNot()

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff View Post
    Atrivo another link in the chain with the RBN cyber-mafia, ref: http://rbnexploit.blogspot.com/
    http://rbnexploit.blogspot.com/2007/...aking-its.html more specifically.

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by [B][URL="http://www.webhostingtalk.com/member.php?u=27787
    KarlZimmer[/URL][/B]"]It doesn't matter where the site is if it is a US company as the company itself would still be bound by US copyright law, you can go after the US branch/location all you want, even if it IS just a relative, employee, etc. If that relative/employee finds it to be more trouble than it is worth then they may simply stop their "front" of being a US company.
    None of their staff or servers or IP blocks are in the United States. You wont even a close chance of a fair trial so long they are in Hong Kong.

    As long as the website you have in question is hosted in Hong Kong, they do NOT have to take any action regardless of where they are located or incorporated. If they step foot on US shores, then they could be held liable, but until then... keep praying

    I hope we can now stop suggest OP and other WHT members from sending DMCA and take down notices to HF, and other organizations operating outside the US.

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