Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Web Hosting : Dreamhost is Not Listening...

[Dave Zan]

Originally Posted by -NeoN-

That's not how it legally works.

If the offending party disagrees then they have to file a counter-notice under penalty of perjury and I must be supplied with that counter-notice.

Even if they file a counter-notice, the host has to pull the material for a set period of time and may put it back if there is not a court order to leave the material down while a lawsuit proceeds.

If there is a counter-notice, they have to give it to me BUT they still must pull the site immediately.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK DMCA requires the host to shut down the site if the other party doesn't reply after a period of time. If they do respond to the host's query about that, the host supposedly will forward the information to you and are essentially out of the picture.

Anyway, issue appears to be resolved so it's moot at this point.

[Henrik]

Originally Posted by Dave Zan

Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK DMCA requires the host to shut down the site if the other party doesn't reply after a period of time. If they do respond to the host's query about that, the host supposedly will forward the information to you and are essentially out of the picture.

Anyway, issue appears to be resolved so it's moot at this point.

Wouldn't you agree that the above is "best practice", not written into the actual law-text?!

[MichaelS]

Sorry for the delays in action being taken per your DMCA. While I can't comment specifically on issues like this, I can say that our abuse team is a very busy team at DreamHost. With the number of websites we host there's lots of abusey (copyright me ) issues to deal with and it can sometimes take some time to fully investigate, respond to, and act on a reported issue. Everything is handled as quickly as possible, however.

Glad you got it fixed up, though!

[ldcdc]

Then it just goes back to the importance/manpower allocated to the task. Not that it's not understandable. Abuse departments aren't exactly profit makers.

[Henrik]

Dreamhost do have a pretty good information page on how to go at it when it comes to abuse-complaints, so you got to give them that.

[Outlaw Web Master]

Big claps for Dreamhost...

However....I wonder where the ripped work will appear next because one thing's for certain. The person will just move on to another host and it's back to square one.

owm

[bithost(NET)]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

I can say that our abuse team is a very busy team at DreamHost. With the number of websites we host there's lots of abusey (copyright me ) issues to deal with and it can sometimes take some time to fully investigate, respond to, and act on a reported issue.

That's a sign that something is wrong, with a hosting company. The abuse team should not be "very busy". What is DH doing that they have so many abuse issues to deal with?? A well-run web hosting company with the proper checks in place does not have that many abuse issues to deal with...

Talking from real-world experience here, working with/for several larger hosting companies --

Bailey

[Mike in FL]

Staying busy doesn't always mean it's actual abuse.

If you host 600,000 domains AND have one of the most relaxed freedom of speech policies out there... you can count on people complaining about the sites.

I'd love to see how many of the complaints they deal with are crap like:

- Take down ________ because that joke offends me.

- Take down ________ because they say something bad about America.

Etc...

I've even seen people complain on their blog that a site hosted there had a swastika or something on it.

They've even had the pleasure of putting up with this retard.

[bithost(NET)]

Dealing with complaints like that should take very little time. In my experience as an abuse desk admin a short and sweet stock response that is copy/pasted renders each such complaint dealt with in literally a few seconds.

I stand by my assertion that a competent, "stand-up" web host is simply not that busy with abuse issues. Been there, doing that.

Bailey

[Mike in FL]

Which host with 600,000 domains were you working abuse for? Not just that, but their policy is basically if it's legal, you can host it. That's a huge invitation to a flood of complaints, considering they allow a lot of content that other hosts won't.

I don't mean just blow off the crap complaints with a quick answer. I'd suspect that they still look into them and make sure there's not a problem.

Sure you can cut down on the complaints with a ton of content restriction, but it's nice to see they don't do that.

I guess I just don't have a hard time buying that over 1/2 million domains is going to carry a heavier workload than most hosts have to deal with.

[bithost(NET)]

Mike, I'm not saying that a host with 600,000 domains is going to have the same abuse workload as a host with, say, 100,000 domains.

I'm talking about apples-to-apples. For a given 100,000 domains, why would DH's workload be any heavier than anybody else's? ...Unless their policies are letting some real crap in (or they are not performing proactive sweeps to catch the crap before it's added to the queue at the abuse desk).

With all due respect, I have been there and done that. I know how policies and practices can influence workloads. In one instance, I facilitated changing some standards of practice which significantly cut down on abuse desk workloads. It's not like I haven't walked the walk on this.

I am simply suggesting DH created their own monster here; maybe if they didn't cater to every Tom, Dick and Harry with 89¢ to burn, they wouldn't have as many problems?? I don't know -- just a thought.

A certain kind of workload comes with every customer demographic. DH made their bed. Which bed they made, and how they made it, has been entirely by their choice. They could be catering to a different user group, or be following different policy & internal practice strategies, to cut down on their overall workload.

As someone else said, clearly they are understaffed, which is also inexcusable. If you have that much work that needs to be done, for heavens sake, get the necessary bodies on the schedule to take care of the customers!!

Bailey

[dwrunyon]

A couple of things about this:

1) It doesn't matter what a host's TOS is, unless you are screening everything that gets FTP'd, posted in your user's forums and blogs, or is in any other way published, then you cannot control what gets hosted on your servers, so it is very easily imaginable that ANY host with that many sites hosted can get tons and tons of complaints, both legit and non.

2) As a long time and in depth reader of the Dreamhost blog, forums, wiki and whatnot, I know that their abuse dept also does thing like assist the FBI in investigations of things like child porn sites, and that is not only admirable, but probably takes a good bit more effort than firing off a bunch of copied and pasted responses... and if that's what YOU (bithost) were and are doing... and you just said you were, then I would say that you are the one who is doing a crappy job.

[dwrunyon]

Originally Posted by bithost(NET)

I am simply suggesting DH created their own monster here; maybe if they didn't cater to every Tom, Dick and Harry with 89¢ to burn, they wouldn't have as many problems?? I don't know -- just a thought.

Sounds awesome... The People's Host!

They could be catering to a different user group

Those "groups" have been catered to enough. I am grateful that they cater to the group who likes freedom of features and functionality, freedom to have awesome hosting when you don't have a lot of money, freedom from "professional pretension" and freedom of speech within the law... I think they should be VERY proud of themselves for being pretty much the ONLY host that can cater to ALL of those needs.

Dreamhost offers the highest level of personal empowerment for the buck that that I've seen on the web, and in a very organically human manner, and I am very grateful for it. If someone wants what you are suggesting, then there are hosts out there with that vibe too.

[bithost(NET)]

Originally Posted by dwrunyon

their abuse dept also does thing like assist the FBI in investigations of things like child porn sites, and that is not only admirable, but probably takes a good bit more effort than firing off a bunch of copied and pasted responses... and if that's what YOU (bithost) were and are doing... and you just said you were, then I would say that you are the one who is doing a crappy job.

I would suggest going back and re-reading the kind of complaints we were talking about. No one is suggesting that serious and legitimate complaints should receive a simple cut-and-paste response.

And yes, hosts are indeed fully accountable for what is uploaded to their servers. There are proactive ways to administer your servers and "nip problems in the bud" before they turn into full-fledged Issues™ ... of course nothing short of a human audit will be 100%, but you would be surprised how many people are completely uncreative about their file names... and lack of creativity leads to easily finding problems before they've become an object of scrutiny by lots of eyes.

Bailey

[bithost(NET)]

Originally Posted by dwrunyon

Sounds awesome... The People's Host!

I am grateful that they cater to the group who likes freedom of features and functionality, freedom to have awesome hosting when you don't have a lot of money, freedom from "professional pretension" and freedom of speech within the law... I think they should be VERY proud of themselves for being pretty much the ONLY host that can cater to ALL of those needs.

Dreamhost offers the highest level of personal empowerment for the buck that that I've seen on the web, and in a very organically human manner, and I am very grateful for it.

Agreed. As you have so eloquently summarized -- DreamHost has indeed made their bed. And now we all can lie in it. It's free enterprise at its finest.

Bailey