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  #1  
Old 02-27-2001, 10:52 AM
myturn myturn is offline
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After reading the excellent reviews on this forum for 4webspace I decided to switch over to them .
This was about a couple of months ago
DISASTER 1: I did the transfer in phases since I wanted my clients to have no bad experiences (Ha!)
I asked for a second block of IPs before the second block of domains was transferred. Got the block fast (very happy) ...took some time setting things up and then finally one fine day made the internic switches to the domains.
As soon as the domain nameserver changes took effect the domains went DOWN!
I was in a state of panic with clients calling up. This was saturday morning (I think)
Told myself 'No problem. 4web is supposed to have fantastic 24x7 support'
emailed but since this was an emergency thought I'd get things fixed at the chat board.
The people there took everything very cooly (very relaxed) ...and told me that unfortunately this would have to wait for monday because the person who was in charge of DNS was not there.
After much begging (really) they said 'ok. I'll see what I can do around late afternoon' . Thought he meant it. After waiting about 3 hours at the board I reminded the guy to find out if something had been initiated. He got annoyed 'I said late afternoon. Please don't ask before then'
Was very disappointed. This was a realy emeregncy for me and I couldn't even ask twice about it.
To cut a horribly long story a little shorter, nothing happened. I remined the guy again and he simply said 'sorry. will have to wait till monday'
Couldn't do much about it. I can tell you though, I had serious problems with my clients.
Waited till monday . Got an email that 'the IP block you were given was incorrect and had already been assigned elsewhere. The new IP block is.....Sorry if you hadn't been told this earlier'
That's all.
I can't help but observe that this is CERTAINLY NOT what one expects from 24x7 support. Maybe what you expect is to have your URGENT requirements resolved and to have the monor issues pushed to weekday support NOT the other way around where you are told if you have a monir problem (or just want to chat) we can help. If you need something seriously , too bad.

DISASTER 2: I don't remember exactly but I think it was just a couple of days later that the now well known 9 hour downtime of 4webspace took place.
That didn't help with my clients.
No need to wrrite at length about this since its already been covered elsewhere on this board.

DISASTER 3: Then, I don't know, maybe 3 weeks later we (as in tera-byte) get this DNS hack and everyone (or almost) who was using the RAQ's dns got things messed up.
I was again in panic. Was told 'sorry. we had warned you not to use the raq's dns. Now you're on your own. '
I tried to mumble that all we had been told was that the RAQ's DNS was not as reliable as tera's. (1) I had never had any dns problems at my previous provider AND (2) 4web even had a RAQ DNS how-to posted at their site WITHOUT any warnings (Why on earth?) (3) No other major host seems to have had anything like this DNS hack. Taking all this into consideration seems to me that at least part of responsibility/problem was tera's.
Was told to wait.
Many many hours later was told AGAIN that tera couldn't help. It had been my mistalke.
THIS EVEN AFTER I'd offerred to PAY. So I recounted my IP block misery and told him that since I had had to bear the results of tera's mistake tera should be willing to help out even if it was my mistake (in using the RAQ's DNS)
Finally said ok. After about 10-15 minutes told me check. And it was working again. The whole thing took maybe 8 hours of me begging.
Then I received an invoice for work done for $100. !! I emailed back asking how come 15 minutes work at a rate of $50 per hour works out to $100. No reply .

DISASTER 4 (current): At the end of disaster 3, I had been told that I should switch over to tera's dns .Also private cobranded dns servers were mentioned. I asked for the instructions but also mentioned that I'd want private nameservers . Was told that instructions would be up by the next day.
Nothing next day, nothing day after, nothing, nothing nothing . We had been sent an email that RAQ's DNS would be cutoff by the 21st or 22nd. I was in a state of panic again. With GREAT difficulty I was able to get something like ' We are respnsible people. You must understand we would not simply cutoff our clients without posting the instructions first'
I had also sent an email: > Hello,
> I am also requesting that I be emailed as soon as the instructions are made
> available. Else I have to keep on checking your site (and don't even know
> where the instructions may turn up)
> Presumably the extension will be such as to give me time AFTER the
> instructions are posted. It would make no sense for the new extension to
> expire before the instructions were posted.
> thanks,
Received a reply: The instructions are still in the works, hence we are not going to be turning the DNS off until next week.
Had been checking daily (even though I really had wanted to avoid having to check) It had seemed OBVIOUS (becaus they used the word HENCE, and because they had delayed the cutoff, they said, only because the instructions were not up) that they would NOT cut us off UNTIL they posted the instructions.
Well, now it looks like I have had my Raq's DNS cutoff!
My domains are unreachable. There are still no instructions. Even if the instructions were posted this very minute (interesteingly, every time the instructions were supposed to have been just about ready..or writing them even as we speak) it would still take a couple of days for internic updates to resolve.
I have tried the chat forum and no tera tech is listening (as in replying at all)I was told by someone (visitor) there that this problem is probably because of the cutoff. I don't want to believe this but disasters 1-3 seem to suggest that anything is possible.
I know they charge much less than what otehr hosts charge but the low charges are supposed to mean fewer features NOT repeated SERIOUS problems with accessing the server or poor (supposedly 24x7) support in resolving issues. I mean, would you get a server if they said ' well, we may have lots of downtime and may not be able to help you when you need us, but we are a lot cheaper than others' . Cheap is only ok if its not full of holes.
So, to understate things, I'm not happy with 4webspace or terabyte!
I have no idea how this is going to turn out. I don't know how many of my clients will quit on me in sheer frustration or if after reading this post tera is going to pull the plug on me anyway. I thank God that I had had the sense not to put the domain with my main email accounts on tera's server. I am very very very embarrassed and ashamed that my clients should have to suffer for my misjudgement.
UPDATE: as I was typing the above I recheck and finally there was someone at the chat board. And he says my server has been taken OFF completely and I have been assigned a new server. because I had not been using the right version of BIND My server has ben compromised and it is being investigated. It doesn't matter that I have been begging for instructions for over a week now.and had these been made available this would not have happened.
What am I going to tell my clients? THIS IS NOT FAIR. For one thing they should have at least let me know. For another thing they should have tried to get my stuff back up asap. and the instructions.... will these ever be up?If it was such a big security risk, the raq's dns should not have ben allowed at all...or there should have been warnings in red all over their site!

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  #2  
Old 02-27-2001, 11:21 AM
-Edward- -Edward- is offline
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You must be one of the unlucky ones. Everytime i've had a problem they've resolved it the same day. Although my partner nags them a lot i dont since i understand they have a huge work load. My server had problems we asked for it reset they did it in under 24 hours. Granted my partner nagged them but i gave him a telling off for it.

Would you care to share which techs it was that didnt help you?

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  #3  
Old 02-27-2001, 11:59 AM
alucasa alucasa is online now
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It appears to me it is not a matter of 'luckly' and 'unluckly' ....

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  #4  
Old 02-27-2001, 12:24 PM
cbaker17 cbaker17 is offline
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seems

Seems as if certain techs out there are causing the whole company to look bad..

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  #5  
Old 02-27-2001, 12:52 PM
myturn myturn is offline
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DNS page at 4webspace

most of the time in the 'disasters' I had to deal with multiple people. Part of the problem of course is that one tech says one thing and another will want to start from scratch and you have to because you can't go anywhere else. While I do remember the names of a couple of the techs I don't think 4web as a geneal rule wants the techs to do whatever it takes. I say this even though people have said, on occasion, just the opposite. I'v had a fair amount of experience of indifference and would LOVE to experience the opposite..like my server being put back on somehow or the other. Maybe there are some great techs out there...I don't know
Interstingly, while 4web continues to give the impression that the server owners had been WARNED to not use the RAQ's DNS, their site continues to have this (http://www.4webspace.com/support.html) :
22. Is there a quick start guide for setting up DNS on my RaQ3?
Answer: Yes. We have our own guide that can be accessed here. and their url for the guide 'here' is : http://www.4webspace.com/dns.html
(they may of course take the page off now)
Very very odd WARNING, IMHO
I cannot begin to explain the feeling of being in such a horible situation and the hosting company being quite relaxed about the whole thing. They do not seem to be the least interested in getting my server's domains back up. Can't understand that attitude. I am just a statistic here.


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  #6  
Old 02-27-2001, 01:22 PM
myturn myturn is offline
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odd DNS warning

Something even odder about the supposed --non-existent- WARNING that tera is supposed to have given its users on using the RAQ's DNS
4web has a page explaining how to setup DNS for the RAQ BUT NO PAGE EXPLAINING THIS PROCEDURE FOR THE TERA CONTROL PANEL (and I can't find a warning there STILL. a mention that the tera cp is more reliable does not count as a warning) This in spite of all the problems , all the emails people have sent them, inspite of the urgency of the situation, inspite of having sent me an email saying they were delaying the cutoff date for the RAQ's DNS because the tera panel instructions were not ready.
Is this an odd warning or what?

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  #7  
Old 02-27-2001, 01:32 PM
Keeg Keeg is offline
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Posts: 318
i can addres the last concern here the first three ill need more info for if you want to write me personally steve@tera-byte.com i will look into them. however on your last point.
we sent out an email, we explained what the problem was and how to fix it. you chose to ignore our warning so your server was hacked into. its currently sitting on my desk along with 6 other 4webspace.com servers that all chose to do the same thing. of the hundreds and hundreds of servers i host 7 were left unfixed after we sent out the warning via email to you on Feb 9th. i still have some 85 or so 4webspace raq's that run their own bind and they are upgraded to an exploit resistant DNS. Last night 2 more servers running the old bind were used in network attacks that makes 6 previous raqs that had to be terminated, i needed to make a choice for the good of the entire network and that choice was to eliminate the threat, it was obvious at that point the entire 4webspace.com network was scanned and the scannners were looking for machines to use for their own designs. now all the servers that were hacked are gone that threat is removed, we also made sure you got a new server up as fast as possible to minimize your downtime. i see little else we could do. BTW the techs doing the removing of these raq's did so because i phoned in and told them to.




Steve

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  #8  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:17 PM
myturn myturn is offline
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warning revisited

Hold on. Apparently you have not bothered to read the above in detail (Please have the courtesy to get the events straight . I had to live through the disasters I had no choice as I have none right now )
Previously the WARNING was supposed to have been something which had ALWAYS been there. Now you say it was emailed.
You do not mention that the warning that you are talkin of was sent AFTER the initial hacking in which my server was affected (disaster 3). I begged tech to get it back up. He finally did it and said he'd done a crude job and I should switch to tera DNS. I asked about tera dns instructions and was told they'd be up in the next day or two (think he said tomorrow). Got my tera panel passwword and address but no instructions. was very worried because he tech had said the dns fix had been crude and because you had mentioned a cutoff date for the raq's dns. Asked many times on the chat forum and also asked via email. always the answer was 'soon'.
You can insist that the first time around was my fault because you had said at your site that tera dns was 'more reliable ' (and that, according to you, means 'you have been warned' )but the next time around it was tera's fault for not posting the instructions quickly as was promised. I am surprised that you still insist that this too was my fault. I just don't know how you can still say that .I suppose its because I can't do much except grumble. If I were in your position (even if this was all a private email and not a public post) I'd be so embarrassed I'd be falling over trying to say something to relax my client. Not to keep the client but simply that I'd caused someone problems.


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  #9  
Old 02-27-2001, 02:48 PM
Keeg Keeg is offline
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a public forum is just fine to say this, your server was a risk to every other server on the network, even if we had not done a thing to get you using our dns, it is still your responsibility to make sure your server is secure. the patches are avaliable and have been for quite some time. no we havent handled the switch over to our dns in the best fashion possible, there was a lot of work to do in a short time to minimize impact on all of the clients we host, however that is irrelivent to the problem at hand, which was your server was insecure. if you wanted us to look after all patches and security for your server we would have done that as well but not if we dont know you want it.

Steve

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  #10  
Old 02-27-2001, 03:19 PM
lienzi lienzi is offline
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Posts: 39
I have to agree Steve. One "disadvantage" of having a dedicated (unmanaged) server is that you are responsible for it, the tradeoff is higher flexibility. What 4webspace is basically doing is providing network connectivity, the space, the raq's, and basic admin stuff because you are not physically in Canada. Whatever is running on the boxes is up to you unless it affects the quality and stability of the network and has impact on other machines/customers.

that's it! if you are not able to manage your own server (yes, it also requires sysadmin capabilities, linux knowledge etc.), then you are better off with a shared hosting.

that's just my opinion.

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  #11  
Old 02-27-2001, 03:51 PM
cbaker17 cbaker17 is offline
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while

While I agree with keeg, I think there is a fine balance, I think its inappropriate to take down a customers server for long periods of time.

But I do agree that network security is hard to control, but I think you need a network wide security policy should be used. For instance we too have recently had trouble with spam and security issues on our dedicated server customers, we have implemented a 0 tolerance polic for this, but we use a scale type approach, if something happens, we notify the customer they then have 48 hours to correct this, with our help or without, if after 48 hours the problem is still not corrected and a second incident happens, we would take the customer offline until they make arrangements for the security issue to be taken care of, if after this there is a third security/spam issue we will take the server offline again and fine the customer.

As you can see a approach like this give the customer tha ability to fix the incident before a stonger major is needed, if the customer decides to ingnore us, or diregard the problem then thats their fault and they get the consequences.

Simply taking a server offline, seems to be a little drastic and negativly effect the customer, when they may not even be aware the problem exists.


By the way this is nothing against 4webspace, ive recommended many people 2 them. Im just hoping the current issues at hand get fixed..

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  #12  
Old 02-27-2001, 05:55 PM
Keeg Keeg is offline
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as i said i have a pile of servers running named thats been upgraded , its unknown if these servers are comprimised or not the only servers taken offline were those known to be comprimised. this means someone is in your server doing stuff to affect other customers/users/people throughout the world, that in my estimation is an unacceptable situation that demands immediate action. we are physically checking the upgraded servers by hand to verify their security none of those people have been taken offline or affected in anyway until their security has been shown to be comprimised. we also are not trying to cause unacceptable delays for peoples equipment therefore all the servers taken offline were immediatly replaced with brand new uncomprimised systems and told how to secure them so they can remain unaffected.

Steve

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  #13  
Old 02-27-2001, 06:26 PM
myturn myturn is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2001
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one domain very URGENT

I still do not have access to my brand new server. Never received anything
Is it possible for you to get just ONE of my domains re-instated with the same nameservers as I had (since internic will take time for an update. I never made the update earlier because I am using the same names for the cobranded servers and I did not have the tera dns instructions. I could not change the IPs with internic without first making sure the tera panel was setup right)
This is probably not more than 1-2MB data and possible to weed through easily for checking against possible problems.
This is for a client who has a tv show tonight for which he has been preparing his site for acouple of months. He will lose a real opportunity.
Is it possible?

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  #14  
Old 02-27-2001, 07:27 PM
Keeg Keeg is offline
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i would be happy to make sure your up and running but i dont know who you are, our queue is pretty swamped at the moment, write to me personally and ill make sure you get up and running.if your not i do appologize as the intent was to get all servers up asap after we downed them. there was a problem with the old nics still being bound to the ips however that may be affecting you

Steve

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  #15  
Old 02-27-2001, 07:51 PM
myturn myturn is offline
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email sent

Steve: have sent the email. This would need pretty fast action because this guy's show is being aired tonight
Maybe you can get everything up??!!

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