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09-14-2007, 03:05 AM #51Web Hosting Master
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I'm not sure anything good will come out of this, they're enough ignorant to customers, I don't expect them to be better when they've grown even more.
Maybe they should fix their products before they waste energy on buying others. The mailing list feature hasn't been working for ages and none of the updates they've produced fix it. Every Plesk update (Linux) cause more problems than it fixes. Since a customer have to pay 75USD for every ticket to solve problem they've caused, I must say they have a successful business model; "we break, you pay!". That should be their motto.-Mr Bister
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09-14-2007, 03:46 AM #52Web Hosting Master
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09-14-2007, 06:44 AM #53Web Hosting Master
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I agree with Mr. Cartika, this is great news for the H-Sphere companies. H-Sphere is already a robust, fully integrated, cross-platform solution. With the added licensing capability and Windows expertise of SWSoft, H-Sphere products will hands-down offer the most choices for clients and all of it managed from 1 control panel.
Think about it, in a year or two, it's possible that H-Sphere can INSTANTLY deploy
Clustered and Load-Balanced Webhosting in both Linux and Windows
Clustered VPS with VZ or H-Sphere VPS in both Linux and Windows
Clustered Dedicated servers instantly provisioned with control panels for either Windows or Linux
Unless cPanel learns multi-platform clustering, it's going to be left in the technological wake and relegated to only budget hosting duties.
Truly Amazing potential.Last edited by imountain; 09-14-2007 at 06:57 AM.
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09-14-2007, 07:00 AM #54Web Hosting Master
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Do you think swsoft will buy out directadmin as well? (i mean this can be done easily)
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09-14-2007, 07:49 AM #55Mr. Awesome
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I think this has already happened.
Cpanel continues to exist and be popular simply because it has a huge customer base and is very simple, not because it is technically superior to other control panels.
I think there will always be a big place for a simple control panel like cpanel. Currently, the vast majority of web hosting providers do not need advanced features and complexity of the "technically better" control panels.We are eNom PLATINUM PLUS resellers!
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09-14-2007, 08:56 AM #56Aspiring Evangelist
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I don't know what Psoft's support was like but you should probably lower your expectations a bit because SWSoft's is horrible. It took them close to 48 hours to respond to an 'Emergency' ticket and even then the answer was ridiculous.
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09-14-2007, 09:03 AM #57Owner of the net for a day
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09-14-2007, 09:39 AM #58Web Hosting Master
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This is true. Cpanel is popular because it is very simple, that a common man can easily use it for it needs.
Personally, I have used most control panels, I will never say Cpanel is very good, but it is very easy for even a newbie.
Let's see how it goes and as many said above, as Cpanel and DirectAdmin are there SWSoft won't have that monopoly.iHubNet Ltd - Premium Hosting Solutions 4 ALL
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09-14-2007, 12:21 PM #59Location = SoapBox
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I don't know what Psoft's support was like but you should probably lower your expectations a bit because SWSoft's is horrible. It took them close to 48 hours to respond to an 'Emergency' ticket and even then the answer was ridiculous.
Let's see how it goes and as many said above, as Cpanel and DirectAdmin are there SWSoft won't have that monopoly.
- alabanza
- helm
- ispconfig
- VHCS
- Ravencore
- DTC
- InsPanel
- hostingcontroller
- Interworx
- Web cp
- cwipanel
I am sure I am missing a bunch morewww.cartika.com
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09-14-2007, 12:30 PM #60Location = SoapBox
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www.cartika.com
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09-14-2007, 12:53 PM #61Retired Moderator
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How many of those have sizable market shares though?
Hostingcontroller, Interworx & Helm are about the only serious entries on that list that could put up any sort of challenge to SWSoft's dominance.
The fact is that Plesk, Ensim and H-Sphere are now under one roof (SWSoft) and all 3 have decent market share. The same cannot be said to everyone on that listAlasdair
Long time ex-host, ex-billing software owner/developer/support staff. Recent lurker.
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09-14-2007, 01:04 PM #62Location = SoapBox
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I think this conversation is going the wrong direction - but, it is irrelavent how much market share these companies have - the only relavence is that options exist - and this sort of scenario, is exactly what may increase the usage/sales of the other options available. Also, as you indicated Hostingcontroller, Interworx & Helm are all pretty large players. The question is how many control panel companies can the market accomodate? if these mergers/acquisitions create an unbalanced market, then the market will correct itself by the growth of some of the existing smaller players in the industry or the emergence of more solutions. These movements have certainly tightened the market some, but, a monopoly it is not and nothing is preventing more players from entering the market:
Definition - Monopoly:
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market.
2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.
3. the exclusive possession or control of something.
4. the market condition that exists when there is only one seller.www.cartika.com
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09-14-2007, 02:45 PM #63…
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It's interesting that you always say that cPanel shouldn't be included in the discussion, but never mention DirectAdmin. Certainly, the remainder of your list are also largely non-factors simply due to market share. It has nothing to with the purpose of the panel, nor does it have to do with function or market factors.
The fact that the market is saturated and has easy entry only mitigates the possibility of a long term monopoly. It does not mean that certain companies can not behave in a monopolistic fashion if they have enough market share.
Like it or not, cPanel has a large enough market share to where SWSoft can not act as a monopoly. Like it or not, cPanel has a larger market share than the panels you listed, and regardless of the reasons, that is a principal reason why SWSoft does not have a monopoly in the current sense.
As for your opinion on how it should be, or why it wouldn't be in the long term, I couldn't care less. I'm talking basic business principles in sentential logic. You're talking something complete different.
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09-14-2007, 02:55 PM #64Location = SoapBox
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Like it or not, cPanel has a large enough market share to where SWSoft can not act as a monopoly. Like it or not, cPanel has a larger market share than the panels you listed, and regardless of the reasons, that is a principal reason why SWSoft does not have a monopoly in the current sense.
Alabanza is a massive player hosting countless domains. Hosting controller, helm and interworx are also significant players. How about the entire Windows hosting market - which is HUGE and cpanel or DA has what? 0% market share?
I am not against cpanel, but, I am against countinually giving it credit where it isnt due - and to claim that they are saving us from a monopoly or stopping swsoft from behaving in a monopolistic behaviour is simply incorrect.www.cartika.com
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09-14-2007, 03:14 PM #65…
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I don't have the figures on hand, but I know that even when factoring Windows, they still sell more than any other individual panel, and I have read that they have a very large share of the market. I'm not saying that DA or Interworx or Alabanza do not have market share, just that cPanel has a very large segment of the market. Then, factor that cPanel is currently developing a Windows and clustered solution.
There are a variety of factors that would make a long-term monopoly in the Panel industry impossible, but as of right now, cPanel is one of the main reasons why SWSoft can not behave like a monopoly. It's the most recognizable and popular brand as of right now.
If you look at it, no one panel has a majority of the market, but cPanel has a plurality, and even in that sense, they are major enough to be called by name.
However, it seems that you will give credit to every other panel, including naming such solutions such as Ravencore or cwipanel instead of offering cPanel any credit ("cpanel shouldn't even be in the discussion"), which is absurd. The fact remains that SWSoft does not have a monopoly (nor can they behave like one) as people fear, and part of the reason (and the largest part of the reason as of right now) are solutions such as cPanel and Directadmin, hence why they are are named. Not because they are the sole reason.
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09-14-2007, 03:21 PM #66Location = SoapBox
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However, it seems that you will give credit to every other panel, including naming such solutions such as Ravencore or cwipanel instead of offering cPanel any credit ("cpanel shouldn't even be in the discussion"), which is absurd. The fact remains that SWSoft does not have a monopoly (nor can they behave like one) as people fear, and part of the reason (and the largest part of the reason as of right now) are solutions such as cPanel and Directadmin, hence why they are are named. Not because they are the sole reason.
You are correct, I should also give credit to cpanel and DA for their contribution towards preventing a monopoly - as they have certainly do play a role in this along with the other control panels.
However, I think the entire point is being missed - several stated "thank goodness for cpanel" because without them, there would be a monopoly... and even though I know that cpanel is a sacred cow on these boards - I only tried to point out that cpanel and cpanel alone are not responsible for preventing the monopoly and should not be given such credit -www.cartika.com
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09-14-2007, 03:40 PM #67Web Hosting Master
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You can't quote a hard fact without a source. This happens all the time on this forum; somebody states cPanel outsells everyone else, is more stable, etc, but the source of the "facts" is always lacking.
Windows has an ever-growing market share and is rapidly eating in to the previously dominant *nix share. Given that fact (backed by netcraft) it is simply unfathomable that cPanel outsells everyone else. H-Sphere does big business, enough infact to have many companies holding literally tens of thousands of licenses per cluster. cPanel doesn't have the product to get those numbers, and considering the fact that almost four years ago Windows development was at "85%, I don't see them getting there, ever.
Plesk also does big business, the recent acquisitions go a long way toward proving that. With the now-combined resources, the market is somewhat cornered for clustered services aswell as Windows solutions. cPanel are undeniably on the back foot right now and are scrambling to find a way to catch up. If they aren't doubling their efforts right now then they should not be in business. cPanel has its place, as Andrew correctly stated, but that place is not in clustered/distributed services nor is it in the Windows market at this point.
With all that in mind, do you really think cPanel is outselling every other provider? I'd love to see your source, and also how they managed to get SWSoft, Ensim, Psoft, DirectAdmin, etc to give up their numbers because it's not something you can poll effectively with bots.
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09-14-2007, 06:46 PM #68THE Web Hosting Master
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There is one MAJOR reason... What about all their customers who have built a complete business on one platform or another? They purchased that platform for a reason and merging them all together would completely change the nature of that product. As a long-time H-Sphere customer, THAT is what I'm worried is going to happen...
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09-14-2007, 06:58 PM #69THE Web Hosting Master
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Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
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09-14-2007, 07:29 PM #70THE Web Hosting Master
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Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
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09-14-2007, 08:01 PM #71…
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That would be the case if I was genuinely trying to prove something deliberately. We're all speculating here because we have no idea how the market will shake down.
No, you can't determine exactly how panels are doing, but that said, we do have a decently large sample to work with, and you can take the market evaluations as to the worth of the companies. You won't get a complete picture, but you do get a picture nonetheless.
Regardless of their actual market share, given that a large number of *Nix hosts use cPanel, it's fair to say that they have some power in the industry.
I'm no proponent of cPanel either, but as I mentioned, as long as some of the other big players (such as cPanel and DirectAdmin) are independent, you won't see the market monopolization by one company. That's the point I'm making.
I dislike SWSoft and like H-Sphere, but I don't think the industry has too much to worry about.
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09-15-2007, 01:15 AM #72Web Hosting Master
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The view on monopoly (a persistent market situation where there is only one provider of a product or service) or oligopoly (a market or industry is dominated by a small number of sellers) is with the independent hosts that rely on 3rd party control panels. Larger hosting companies such as pair, Verio, Hostway, etc. have their own control panels so they could probably care less what SWSoft does. However I would not be surprised if one of these larger hosts develops competing products to grab dedicated server clients from other providers who rely on SWSoft type of products.
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09-15-2007, 12:09 PM #73Web Hosting Master
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Is it confirmed that SWsoft bought psoft as well?
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09-15-2007, 12:15 PM #74WHT Addict
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Honestly, I don't think any of those control panels are very good, so the news didn't make me happy or have me worried.
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09-15-2007, 12:20 PM #75Web Hosting Master
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No, I'm not concerned over the control panels. I am more concerned over how this affects the roadmap for SiteStudio. I did locate a news article confirming the purchase of Psoft. With such a large userbase, it would be nice if they made some sort of public comment regarding the roadmap.
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