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  1. #1

    * www.amazonlite.com

    I registed the domain amazonlite.com for my implementation of Amazon's Web Services. This is what I got from them on Friday and I would like hear opinions. I say that they are right that I can not use the Web Service / Associate services with this domain, but why should I give them to Amazon? I will just use the domains for something else...



    Greetings from Amazon.com.

    It has recently come to our attention that you are using domain names
    that contains a variation of the name AMAZON, including but not
    limited to www.amazonlite.com and www.amazonlight.com. Please note
    that we do not allow anyone with a URL containing the word "amazon"
    or any misspelling of the word "amazon" to make use of Amazon.com's
    Web Services Developer Kit or participate in Amazon.com's Associate
    Program (see Section 1.A.5 of the Amazon.com Web Services Licensing
    Agreement at
    http://associates.amazon.com/exec/pa.../developer/kit
    .htmland Section 1 of the Associates Program Operating Agreement at
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/su...oin/operating-
    agreement.html/). Such use violates Amazon.com's trademark,
    proprietary and other rights.

    At this juncture, we are willing to assume that you have registered
    and are using these domain names without a full appreciation of the
    above. We therefore must request that you please immediately disable
    the websites and assign the domain names over to Amazon.com. If you
    agree to the domain transfers and complete them promptly, we will
    agree to pay you for any Associate's fees that you may have accrued
    to date (if any). Please advise whether you agree to transfer
    ownership of the www.amazonlite.com and www.amazonlight.com domain
    names to Amazon.com.

    If, however, we do not hear from you regarding the above within ten
    days from the date of this email, we will have no alternative but to
    terminate our Web Services Licensing Agreement with you and your
    Associates account effective as of the date of this Email. We will
    further withhold all payment of your associate's account for Q3-2002.

    Please know that we value our relationship and we look forward to
    hearing from you. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have
    any questions.


    Best Regards,

    Natalie Kelly
    Associates Program
    Amazon.com
    www.amazon.com
    ======================

  2. #2
    Your intitial intent deems you lible by your very admission, which should answer your question without much more comment yes?
    dotGig
    <:<: [Fruit eating linux administrator]

  3. #3
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    I agree with them about you not using the domain for the implementation of their associates program. But, if you have other plans for the use of the domans, I don't see why you should be obligated to transfer the rights over to them.

    Of course, I'm nothing close to a lawyer, so I'm not entirely sure what procedures are taken in a situation like this.

  4. #4
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    its called cybersquatting. and ur guilty of it. nothning u can really do.

  5. #5
    rlynch: Are you saying I need to transfer the ownership of these domains to amazon? I was thinking about hosting my PHP classes there and that's it.

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by danielk25
    rlynch: Are you saying I need to transfer the ownership of these domains to amazon? I was thinking about hosting my PHP classes there and that's it.
    I think you should contact the doman registrar about this...

  7. #7
    Synthetic, don't you think they should contact a lawyer if they intend to keep it?

    Amazon has their eyes on this domain now.

    A registrar isn't going to put any resources into this so expect the registrar company line.

    But! you might have a point in that they might get information about what the role of a registrar is in this instance, and also find out their rights and responsibilities to intervene on the customers' behalf, or the 3rd party (Amazon)
    dotGig
    <:<: [Fruit eating linux administrator]

  8. #8
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    Will not contacting lawer and trying to put up a case with Amazon will cost dearly?

    Maybe i would have changed the contact info etc. and told amazon that i don't own this domain but was trying to buy
    and then use it for the PHP classes or whatever...

    does it sound ok? or i'm off the mark?

  9. #9
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    oh no way. sorry to confuse u. ull only be violating their policy if u were part of their affiliate program (which u are by the way).

    Originally posted by rlynch
    its called cybersquatting. and ur guilty of it. nothning u can really do.

  10. #10
    Do you think that this is okay:
    http://www.amazonlite.com/

  11. #11
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    I get a not found, so yes, it is ok.

  12. #12
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    Do you think that this is okay:
    judging by the letter they sent you, i dont think it would be acceptable to amazon.com

  13. #13
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    I think the best thing you can do, is make the sites have as little to do with Amazon.com as possible.

    Since you are using "Amazon" in reference to Amazon's Web Services they have a right to the name. If you make the site about the Amazon rain forest and deforestation ( the site is a "light" to the injustice in the Amazon ) you will probably be able to keep the domain and maybe Amazon will even try to buy the domain from you ($$$$).

    Example:
    There was a guy who had the domain Madonna.com. He was forced to give the domain to madonna because the site was all about madonna.

    Example 2:
    Another guy had the domain Sting.com he used the site as a personal homepage and in court he could prove that "Sting" was his nickname in highschool. So he was able to keep the site.

    (BTW if you check sting.com now it has the singer's homepage on it. Which he probably paid much $$$ for. )

    Moral of the story: If you're going to have a domain with a famous brand in it, don't make any references to the brand. For instance if you had Nikelife.com you could put the greek goddess "Nike" on the site and have a little story about her mythological life. And when Nike comes a knocking, you just say it's about the life of the "Greek Goddess of Victory"...

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by danielk25
    Do you think that this is okay:
    http://www.amazonlite.com/
    This what I see at your site:
    "PHP Classes for Amazon Web Services
    An interface between PHP and Amazon Web Services. Supports all the different search types and retuns an XML string. Includes various Amazon modes (books, dvd, etc.) with methods to check if modes exist and return their String value."

    I don't think it will fly Wilber.

  15. #15
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    Welcome to the wonderful world of corporate America.
    There is nothing you can do.

    I had a similar experience with eBay for a name that contained the word "bay" (yes, not even "ebay"!)
    It's not worth the hassle, take your $20 loss and move on.

  16. #16
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    You mean that anyone who lives in the Amazon and loves that great river - will not be allowed to have a web site with that name, because a super rich company with lawyers says no, and will sue him or her?

    Problem is - I know the answer to that one

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by DotComster
    You mean that anyone who lives in the Amazon and loves that great river - will not be allowed to have a web site with that name, because a super rich company with lawyers says no, and will sue him or her?

    Problem is - I know the answer to that one
    Conditions vary, e.g. there was the case of Amazon.gr where someone set up an Amazon imitation bookstore in Greece. Amazon.com swiftly won the case in court. Even though some events might be extreme, these companies own trademarks worth millions (I would say billions but the economy is not so good )

  18. #18
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    Well if amazon will give you whatever u made through their associate program....then y not just hand it over...hassle free... ask them for the 15 regetration fee i am sure they will reinburst u for that.... so u really don't lose anything....

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by jhcashman
    Well if amazon will give you whatever u made through their associate program....then y not just hand it over...hassle free... ask them for the 15 regetration fee i am sure they will reinburst u for that.... so u really don't lose anything....

    LOL

    Dream on.
    They'd be after your @$$, you think they'd pay you to surrender the domain?

  20. #20
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    They'd be after your @$$,
    I noticed that the tone of the email was quite friendly and reasonable. I wouldnt place amazon in the same class as ebay. The fact that the domain name was used primarily to link to their associate program means they would have a fairly good legal case. When you can register a domain name for under $10, I wouldnt even bother trying to recover the domain registration fee, more hassle than it is worth.

  21. #21
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    Re: www.amazonlite.com

    Originally posted by danielk25
    I registed the domain amazonlite.com for my implementation of Amazon's Web Services. This is what I got from them on Friday and I would like hear opinions. I say that they are right that I can not use the Web Service / Associate services with this domain, but why should I give them to Amazon? I will just use the domains for something else...
    Originally posted by danielk25
    Are you saying I need to transfer the ownership of these domains to amazon? I was thinking about hosting my PHP classes there and that's it.
    Originally posted by danielk25
    Do you think that this is okay:
    http://www.amazonlite.com
    Daniel,

    You've created a very interesting situation, here, haven't you? And you ask good questions. It's been interesting to read the various comments and opinions you've gotten here. Unfortunately, while several of them come close to hitting the mark, a number of them are based on inaccurate assumptions about how things work and what is likely to happen.

    You've really got three issues, here:

    1. Your right or ability to make use of Amazon.com's Web Services Developer Kit or participate in Amazon.com's Associate Program while using the amazonlite.com domain name to do so.

    2. Your right or ability to keep and use the amazonlite.com domain name for any purpose -- whether for the promotion of an Amazon-related utility or not.

    And the one you've apparently not yet worried about...

    3. Your right or ability to use the product name AmazonLite as a product name for your package of PHP classes (your API and parser).

    You've been told in this thread that you have libeled Amazon. You have not. And this is not a libel issue in any case.

    You've been told in this thread that you are a cybersquatter. You are not -- at least not yet... not by the classic definition of what a cybersquatter is.

    You've been told to contact your registrar and consult, ask for advice or otherwise take it up with them. That is not the appropriate course of action. The registrar registers the name and then lets those who find value in it to battle it out between themselves. The registrar will then allow whomever wins the battle (either by virtue of a WIPO decision or a court decision) to own the domain. Period. In other words, the registrar neither cares nor wishes to give the appearance of caring. Its policies as stated on its web site and/or to which you agreed when you registered the name are what they are. The registrar's position on the matter will be what is stated therein and not one thing more.

    You've been told to contact a lawyer. That is a costly option that, unless the attorney is well-versed in domain dispute resolution and trademark/servicemark law, will gain you little. And even if you hired an attorney with that expertise, doing so at this particular point would be premature.

    You've been told (or it has been suggested) that doing battle with Amazon over any part of this matter would cost dearly. And that's both right and wrong. At this early stage it would not if it was played right. But, indeed, if it became an all-out, no-holds-barred battle, it could become cost-prohibitive.

    You have been told several things about how you could use the domain name for non-Amazon.com-related purposes and would still be able to hold on to it. In addition, you have been given several examples of domain name dispute cases that turned out in a certain way and, therefore, you may presume that yours would turn out similarly. Do not presume any of that to be true. That is an extremeley complicated area with a raft of previous WIPO decisions related thereto which seem contradictory and must be analyzed very carefully before coming to such a broad conclusions.

    Using one poster's prior eBay experience as example, you've been told you'll lose and that you should take your $20 loss and go home. Sage advice on one hand, but way too pessimistic at this extremely early stage of the game. Believe it or not, at this point you have an astonishing amount of wiggle room and a strong negotiating position. But only if you play your hand just right.

    You've been told that Amazon would not pay you to surrender the domain. Think again. But it would not come out like many people think it would. Again, it's very tricky and how deftly you use your temporarily strong negotiating position at this moment will greatly influence how it works out in the end.

    You are in both a better position than you might think you are on one hand, and in a worse position than you'd like to be on the other. I would very much like to help you. And so that no one here accuses me of using these forums to drum-up business for myself, I would do it either for free or maybe in trade for some PHP coding or something. My point is, I'd not make any kind of profit on it.

    But the problem is, this is not the place to discuss this. This is a strategy matter. I don't mean to make you feel bad, Daniel, but it was a serious tactical error to solicit opinions on this matter here in this public forum. If you would like to prevail on any of the elements of this issue, you need to get any further discussion of this matter out of this forum and into private email and telephone discussions between you and either your attorney who understands these matters, or with a consultant like me who also understands these matters and can actually help you win some part or all of it.

    For the benefit of those reading, I would love to just spell out right here what your options are and what should be done so that both you and Amazon can come out of this situation as winners. But that would fatally tip your hand. Amazon, I assure you, is reading this.

    While I have quite a bit of advice I'd like to give you, one piece of advice I can give you right now is: Stop posting your thoughts, worries and questions to this forum. Now. Then get with either your attorney who understands these sorts fo things, or with a consultant like me (and I'm offering myself at this point for free), to strategize with you and then to do the appropriate negotiating and your behalf so that a deal can be struck which results in a good outcome for both you and Amazon.

    It can be done!

    You can always come back here later and describe what happened for the benefit of those reading this thread who would like to learn from this situation. But until then, if you'd like something good to come from this, clam-up!

    And feel free to contact me privately if you'd like my help.
    Gregg L. DesElms

  22. #22
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    That's it, I am re-registering that "ebay" domain and I am calling Gregg

  23. #23
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    the way i read the letter is, that if you hand over the domain name, they will pay you your commissions.
    If you do not, they will not pay your commissions. They do not say that if you fail to transfer the name that they will commence legal proceedings against you to obtain it.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by hostjet
    the way i read the letter is, that if you hand over the domain name, they will pay you your commissions.
    If you do not, they will not pay your commissions. They do not say that if you fail to transfer the name that they will commence legal proceedings against you to obtain it.
    Daniel,

    Again, I warn: As helpful as hostjet is trying to be with that comment (and, clearly, he is), your even responding to it here, publicly, potentially compromises your position. Say/write nothing more and then play your hand wisely and you could turn this into both cash in your pocket and a satisfactory outcome for both you and for Amazon.com.

    Just my .02 worth -- and that's the last I'll say about it here.

    By the way, hostjet, I don't mean, by the above, to suggest that you're wrong or anything like that. Your observation is, in fact, fundamentally accurate. But there's a tiny piece of it you're missing and for me to even say here what it is would be to contribute to the compromise of Daniel's position. This is one of those moments when Daniel needs to step back, take stock, and decide how he really and truly wants this affair to come out in the end, and then to impose upon himself the necessary self-control to begin guiding the process to inure to his benefit when all is said and done. Please don't be offended that I used your posting to drive home that point. There is not, in fact, one thing wrong with your posting. Daniel, if he wishes to heed my advice, simply needs not to comment on or even respond to it here at this point until he figures out what he's going to do and how he's going to do it.

    And that's it for me, now. I leave this thread as it is. I'll either be listened to or I won't. And either way is fine with me. I'm just trying to help. It seems like Daniel has a cool product and a cool domain name -- both of which have near and dear interest in one way or another to both Daniel and Amazon. And Amazon, in this case, is the 800 pound gorilla. I'd just hate to see the wrong move made on Daniel's part, then see the domain end-up in Amazon's hands with nothing in Daniel's pocket to show for it, and then, to make matters worse, possibly Daniel unable to market his product in the way he'd like to to boot! That would be a sad and unnecessary outcome to this opportunity-filled situation. But there is only so much I can do at this point and I've now done it. So I'll now sit back and just see what happens. Of course I wish Daniel much luck however it turns out.
    Gregg L. DesElms

  25. #25
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    I wanna know what happens .... so post the results of this

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