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  1. #1
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    Host says "NO" to com install

    Hosting company - which shall thus far remain anonymous - is telling me NO to installing ASPPDF on our shared account. I'm not asking for it for free - I'm asking them if I go and drop the $300 and buy a license for ASPPDF how much will they charge to install it.

    "Upgrade to dedicated!" they say. And still haven't given me a price to install it. I'm currently paying $40/mo. Their dedicated Windows plans start at $400/mo.

    Is this common? Or perhaps am I with the wrong company?

  2. #2
    The problem is the management of it. If lots of customers have lots of custom modules installs, it makes restoring a server or migrating shared hosting clients to new hardware a pain in the arse.

    If your "off the beaten track", dedicated certainly is the way to go - as you can install anything you like yourself. You should be able to find a decent dedicated machine for alot less than $400/month!
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  3. #3
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    It's not uncommon for custom components, but aspPDF is hardly a custom component, it's made by one of the top 2 ASP component makers. There are a bunch of shared hosts out there that will let you run any Persists product in a shared environment. You shouldn't need a dedicated server just for this.
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  4. #4
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    It is a choice by the providers. I know we have a policy against such for a number of reasons most of the revolve around legalities.

    We buy site licenses, and all are the same across all servers, we have a uniform set available across all, they are in our name, etc.

    I can see the reason a host would say no for these alone.
    Think if you were to leave after installing making legality problems, they then have this object that other customers may have stared to use(since it was available) that then leave them at a point to have to buy a site license for others because people saw it on one server that a client installed and now expect it on others.

  5. #5
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    "Upgrade to dedicated!" they say. And still haven't given me a price to install it. I'm currently paying $40/mo. Their dedicated Windows plans start at $400/mo.
    you can find a lot of good providers with a decent cost. Have a look into these

    http://www.dedicatedbox.net
    http://www.theplanet.com

  6. #6
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    Or, alternatively, a vps - you can pick one up for a fraction of the cost of a dedi.

    I've got to admit, i agree with not installing it - keeping track of various customers components can be a nightmare - if i had installed it as part of the shared platform, then fair enough.

    Alternatively, pay the host for their own site license (at least part of the cost anyway).
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  7. #7
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    u can look at www.softlayer.com

    can get a decent server at lesser price ..
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  8. #8
    It depends on the hosting provider. We've dropped a ton into licenses across all of our servers, but these are usually for popular modules. Either find a new host or get a VPS/Dedicated server.
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  9. #9
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    Softlayer or LayeredTech


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SynergyWorks View Post
    The problem is the management of it. If lots of customers have lots of custom modules installs, it makes restoring a server or migrating shared hosting clients to new hardware a pain in the arse.
    This is the reason we stopped offering custom installs. Even when explaining that any migration would break it and we could not ensure 100% availability, it normally still came back to be our fault when the site was migrated and stopped working, only for them to notice days later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnibot View Post
    Is this common? Or perhaps am I with the wrong company?
    You are asking for something that isn't standard, so you definitely should not just assume they will do it for you. If it was advertised that they offered this then fine, but shared servers are limited in many ways and the lack of being able to install things like this is one of those limitations.

    Some hosts will install anything you give them but those servers are going to be a nightmare to restore/migrate and the objects they install could also open the server up to inside attacks. Just be aware that a shared host who installs anything you want doesn't necessarily make them a better host. A good host will test anything before it is installed on a server.

  11. #11
    I think you should take it that you are with a good host who understands the platform because their refusal to install one-off components is the correct one in this situation.

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  12. #12
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    May I reiterate that the com object in question is Persits ASPPDF, not some script whipped up overnight by the stoned chav next door...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omnibot View Post
    May I reiterate that the com object in question is Persits ASPPDF, not some script whipped up overnight by the stoned chav next door...

    But its one that requires a $300 license, making it impractical to install it across all of their servers. It is much easier to run solid servers if you keep them all consistent. When you have 100 shared servers, all running variations of different software and modules - maintenance becomes much more involved. Will the latest upgrade of X negatively affect Z? If Server A crashes and we have to restore to a new server, how many different extra hoops are we going to have to jump through, because we have to relicense the server for a software solution that just one person is using?

    If you want the flexibility to run custom software or modules...get a VPS or dedicated server. Or pick a host that doesn't mind loading up their servers with whatever "trusted" software a customer demands at the moment. Personally, I'd stick with the host that has an organized system and understands the importance of keeping things consistent.

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  14. #14
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    That does make sense Tina; I see your point, as the host's architecture is spreading shared accounts across multiple servers.

  15. #15
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    I'm with the OP on this one instead of all the other hosts in this thread it seems Personally, I have no issues installing any object from Persists on any of our web servers. A user's custom COM object on the other hand is a completely different story and that's where the nightmare comes into play.

    If you were to ask me to name a vendor whose COM objects I would install without any questions asked, the ONLY vendor I could tell you would be Persists. We've probably used all their components at one time or another, and I can't remember any issues we've had with them ever. Would we pay $300 for a component for one person? No way, that wouldn't make any sense. If they purchased it though, we would definitely install it.

    This is where I respectfully disagree with the other hosters out there. Does doing this get tricky? A bit...but it's nothing that's hard to manage. Just jot down the fact they purchased ASPPDF in the customer notes and throw the license and install in there as well. It requires a bit of effort, but that's what customers want and we've found it pays to be flexible to this degree. Customer's appreciate the situation and are thankful for a host that goes the extra mile to do this.

    If we ever were to move that one client, we review the client notes for any specifics our support department have noted about their application and websites and go from there. In the event of a system wide failure, we take image based backups so there would be no extra steps restoring just this person's work.

    I'm a big fan of Dedicated & VPS's, it's where I see the hosting industry moving towards every day. I don't consider this thread topic a reason by itself to upgrade to one though. The OP is paying $40/month. Could he find a good VPS for that price and end up very happy? Absolutely. But he shouldn't have to, at least not because a Persists component. If it were actual "custom" code, I would be right along with the other hosters in recommending a VPS because I wouldn't ever mess around with the security and stability of our infrastructure for a customer.
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  16. #16
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    Its not a problem for just one client. The problem becomes when you have 1000s of customers, with 100s of them having special considerations. Sure, if I only had 5 servers this wouldn't be a big deal. You have to plan for future growth and organization.

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  17. #17
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    Well, I can say that we have hundreds of servers, thousands of customers and a few hundred with special needs. As long as we've documented what those needs actually are, it's never once been an issue. We've been in business since 1996, so I think we've been around the block long enough to know what works.

    Don't get me wrong, it definitely requires more effort, but once it's documented, it changes so infrequently. I'm curious to know what everybody's bad experiences with this are. Has anybody actually done this and had it come back and bite them? If so, could the situation have been avoided with proper documentation?
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  18. #18
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    Hello Will,

    We've had cases where we installed for one such as this, a few others caught on and thought it was standard(it wasn't listed - this was years ago as well)

    That would be the main issue we have had. it was only a small portion of clients not benefiting to all for this particular object.

    Main topic:

    That being said, .net is replacing many of these now, and can be installed client side in many cases, the only issues here come with trust issues. Many shared hosting aware companies now make a medium trust .net binary available as well. This may or may not be an option for you with PDFs.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will-AH View Post
    I'm with the OP on this one instead of all the other hosts in this thread it seems Personally, I have no issues installing any object from Persists on any of our web servers. A user's custom COM object on the other hand is a completely different story and that's where the nightmare comes into play.
    This thread is asking if it is normal for hosts to do this and when it comes down to it, what your company does makes no difference, it is still common practice for this type of refusal on shared hosting.

    After a quick look at your site, it's clear that there are things you restrict that other hosts don't, so would you say they were right and you were wrong? Whether or not another host can chime in here and say they would disagree with your restrictions, it doesn't matter because that is your policy.

    Some of us gave reasons why the host may have refused it, we never said it was impossible for any host to do what was being asked and instead did actually mention that many hosts would gladly install it for the OP.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omnibot View Post
    Hosting company - which shall thus far remain anonymous - is telling me NO to installing ASPPDF on our shared account. I'm not asking for it for free - I'm asking them if I go and drop the $300 and buy a license for ASPPDF how much will they charge to install it.

    "Upgrade to dedicated!" they say. And still haven't given me a price to install it. I'm currently paying $40/mo. Their dedicated Windows plans start at $400/mo.

    Is this common? Or perhaps am I with the wrong company?

    You're with the wrong company- period. Thats a ridiculous reason for upgrading to a dedicated server. ASPPDF is a lightweight component and any host who knows what they're doing wouldn't mind installing it for their customer.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting View Post
    ASPPDF is a lightweight component and any host who knows what they're doing wouldn't mind installing it for their customer.
    Saying things like this won't do you any favours, considering many hosts in this very thread (and one of them being one of the most respected Windows hosts on this board) have already given pretty detailed reasons for why some companies will not install these types of components. The OP even agreed on our potential reasoning for the host refusing.

    If you want to get into a pissing match, you allow custom components to be installed as long as they provide you with source code, which is very much a huge security/performance risk unless you dedicate staff to sitting there running every possible test against the component to make sure it doesn't open up security holes or cause performance issues, which there quite simply is no way that happens on anything but very small and limited components.

  22. #22
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    Who's trying to win favors here? We don't troll these forums for customers, you sure like to assume a lot.

    And so what if we allow custom components? We're a developer friendly hosting company and have been so for years. We've been doing it for 5 years without problems, not a single incident has occured so far. Luck? No, I don't think so, its called proper management.

    I'll still stick to my original view-point as I have a solid base of opinion considering the experience I hold. You're free to your opinion (and it is just that- an opinion), doesn't mean you're right or wrong.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting View Post
    Who's trying to win favors here? We don't troll these forums for customers, you sure like to assume a lot.
    Did I assume you trolled looking for customers? You sure like to assume a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting View Post
    I'll still stick to my original view-point as I have a solid base of opinion considering the experience I hold. You're free to your opinion (and it is just that- an opinion), doesn't mean you're right or wrong.
    The problem is you are stating that any host who says no to a request for this doesn't know what they are doing, which is total and utter BS. Give your opinion if you want, but don't try to discredit other hosts who are simply sticking to their policies based on their experience in this industry, especially when you have your own restrictive polices in place for other things.

    Just because you have never had problems doesn't mean it won't happen.

  24. #24
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    What does favors imply then? Correct me if I'm wrong, it would mean I'm posting here to win clients.

    Secondly, just because you don't support custom installs or don't have the infrastructure or software to keep track of COM installs doesn't mean hosts who can offer it are wrong or foolish in doing so. I will still stand by my opinion. With proper management, popular controls or even custom controls aren't a problem. My experience in this industry is what my policies are based on, just like yours may be.

    Lastly, we've never had problems because we're proactive with what we do, we don't wait for 'incidents' to hit us in the face.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting View Post
    What does favors imply then? Correct me if I'm wrong, it would mean I'm posting here to win clients.
    It's simply a saying, you are reading far too much into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting View Post
    Secondly, just because you don't support custom installs or don't have the infrastructure or software to keep track of COM installs doesn't mean hosts who can offer it are wrong or foolish in doing so.
    Nobody said anything about not having a method to track anything. Nobody said you were foolish either.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting View Post
    I will still stand by my opinion. With proper management, popular controls or even custom controls aren't a problem. My experience in this industry is what my policies are based on, just like yours may be.
    And the way you have worded this is so much better, it gets the point across without pissing on other hosts by saying they don't know what they are doing. Your last post said in very specific words that a host was clueless if they didn't install this for the customer, not that you have never had a problem with it in your specific circumstances.

    In my years in business, I have never seen increased spam/DDOS or anything else on adult hosting over what I have seen on non adult hosting, but that doesn't mean I should be posting here saying that any host who has a clue should allow adult content. It all comes down to your policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReyoxHosting View Post
    Lastly, we've never had problems because we're proactive with what we do, we don't wait for 'incidents' to hit us in the face.
    You can only be so proactive, especially if you had someone determined to bypass your security measures.

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