Web Hosting Talk : Other Forums : Web Hosting Lounge : copyright violators?

[Project X]

i was just wondering if those people who make flash demos of various software/apps/etc are violating copyrights?

i only ask because it seems like everyone and their brother are doing it now days.

[the_pm]

I would imagine technically many of these companies could sue, since Flash demo creators are profiting. But it would be outrageously stupid for them to do so, because the lash demo creators make software company applications easier for people to use, and therefore more enticing to purchase.

[page-zone]

That one is easy. It's definitely a copyright violation. e.g. Screenshots of cpanel is a derivative of cpanel inc's work. But copyright is only enforced by the owner so most good companies will overlook it. Apple isn't one of them. I wouldn't try making a demo of any apple software.

As tro why ub3r is squatting on your name - my guess is he plans to exact revenge for something.

[Project X]

im surprised that is your response... (the_pm)

if it IS a copyright violation, then it is.

i dont think people use the flash demos BEFORE purchasing?? i dont think people do a cpanel flash demo and then decide to use a cpanel host, i think it may be the other way around.

[Project X]

Originally Posted by page-zone

As tro why ub3r is squatting on your name - my guess is he plans to exact revenge for something.

he should be "exacting revenge" on someone he actually knows and has reason to, rather than stalking me in every thread i post in or start.

psychotic and scary if you ask me... really really weird behavior

[the_pm]

Originally Posted by Somerset Internet

if it IS a copyright violation, then it is.

No. It's only a copyright violation is the copyright holder deems it to be a violation. If the copyright owner doesn't do this, there is no violation. This is, after all, the right of the copyright holder

Originally Posted by Somerset Internet

i dont think people use the flash demos BEFORE purchasing?? i dont think people do a cpanel flash demo and then decide to use a cpanel host, i think it may be the other way around.

The more support materials available to end users, the more likely a host is to purchase and use the product. It would be a major inconvenience for the software companies to have to create these materials themselves - why not let 3rd party companies do it for them? But if no one did it, there would be potential losses, because some other company who did allow it would have better support materials available and would therefore have a favorable advantage.

[page-zone]

Originally Posted by the_pm

No. It's only a copyright violation is the copyright holder deems it to be a violation. If the copyright owner doesn't do this, there is no violation. This is, after all, the right of the copyright holder

The more support materials available to end users, the more likely a host is to purchase and use the product. It would be a major inconvenience for the software companies to have to create these materials themselves - why not let 3rd party companies do it for them? But if no one did it, there would be potential losses, because some other company who did allow it would have better support materials available and would therefore have a favorable advantage.

And with that in mind I hereby grant unconditional freedom to anyone who wishes create and distribute working demos of my order forms. So long as the submit form posts to my server

[Barti1987]

If you mean by demos, instructional flash tutorials, then it is OK, both morally and legally.

I can produce a movie on how to use Apple Quicktime and even sell that movie and Apple will not be able to do anything.

Peace,

[Project X]

Originally Posted by the_pm

No. It's only a copyright violation is the copyright holder deems it to be a violation. If the copyright owner doesn't do this, there is no violation. This is, after all, the right of the copyright holder

The more support materials available to end users, the more likely a host is to purchase and use the product. It would be a major inconvenience for the software companies to have to create these materials themselves - why not let 3rd party companies do it for them? But if no one did it, there would be potential losses, because some other company who did allow it would have better support materials available and would therefore have a favorable advantage.

ok, i guess my thought is IF it is a copyright violation (and apparently it is) would it be THAT much trouble for the flash designer to GET copyright permission? i am not sure if i would want to buy a flsah demo of something that may not be properly authorized and could be revoked (since some reside on the authors server not mine).

my other thought was in me making some demos of various things, but who to seek permission from.

and also imo it seems that if someone is making these for profit and are not commissioned by the company then they should seek permission.

just because someone is "helping" your company doesnt mean you blindly allow them to take your things. i have a reseller program and found that one of our resellers was copying our entire websites and using his URL and that was NOT ok with me. he got very angry and said he thought he could because he was a reseller and i said NO because he completely diluted our google rankings! it probably never occured to him that something could happen or that his actions could and probably did cause confusion in someone, but it did. also, in my case im not paying someone a reseller fee just for copying my websites! ack!

i know that example is different but it comes down to people thinking they are entitled to take your things because they are "doing you a favor"!

[the_pm]

Originally Posted by azizny

If you mean by demos, instructional flash tutorials, then it is OK, both morally and legally.

I can produce a movie on how to use Apple Quicktime and even sell that movie and Apple will not be able to do anything.

Peace,

Unfortunately, this is about where my copyright law knowledge ends, with the various fair use circumstances, which I'm assuming is the basis for this assertion. Could you point out what makes it legal to use someone else's trademark in a 3rd party's own commercial materials, even if they've denied permission? I'm not entirely doubting this is possible, I'd just like to know where the authority is derived for my own knowledge.

(BTW, trademark law and copyright law are two different things - it sounds like we could be talking about either, but this particular example surrounds trademarks, I believe)

Originally Posted by Somerset Internet

ok, i guess my thought is IF it is a copyright violation (and apparently it is) would it be THAT much trouble for the flash designer to GET copyright permission?

I dunno. Try it and let us know how it goes
i am not sure if i would want to buy a flsah demo of something that may not be properly authorized and could be revoked (since some reside on the authors server not mine).

Originally Posted by Somerset Internet

my other thought was in me making some demos of various things, but who to seek permission from.

It depends on who owns those various things, but I would go right to the legal owner, which can usually be ascertained without too much difficulty (most people who own anything of value protect it by registering themselves as businesses or their works through official means).

Originally Posted by Somerset Internet

and also imo it seems that if someone is making these for profit and are not commissioned by the company then they should seek permission.

That's probably the right thing to do. Going back to your earlier example, I don't imagine there are any control panel software companies that are not aware of the demo producers in the market. Heck, cPanel, SWSoft, Helm and others have all shared exhibit hall space with both DemoDemo and DemoWolf within the past few years - practically next door neighbors. I'm pretty sure whatever working out has needed to take place happened a long time ago

[Trifolic]

Originally Posted by the_pm

Unfortunately, this is about where my copyright law knowledge ends, with the various fair use circumstances, which I'm assuming is the basis for this assertion. Could you point out what makes it legal to use someone else's trademark in a 3rd party's own commercial materials, even if they've denied permission? I'm not entirely doubting this is possible, I'd just like to know where the authority is derived for my own knowledge.

There's fair use law in the US. It's pretty much a toss up on that one, it is for educational, but commercial use, however it does not negatively effect the market value of what's being infringed upon

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use38

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

[RajanUrs]

Originally Posted by Somerset Internet

and also imo it seems that if someone is making these for profit and are not commissioned by the company then they should seek permission.

Yes it would be prudent to seek permission first but not all cases may warrant a permission.

There are innumerable unauthorised dealers, service providers, training institutes for hardware/software all over the world who use copyright protected material without permission. Unless such usage is really causing a problem to the copyright holder tackling such violations could be very costly and time consuming. Some companies do have very strict policies who dont allow anyone to use without permission. A good example is Porsche- they dont even allow their customers to use their logo for a Porsche fan or club site without permission. For a company like Porsche it probably makes sense but not every car company has such strict policies.

[Burhan]

Commentary on works is not subject to copyright. Otherwise, all the tv shows that show demos of software would be getting sued left and right.

[Biju]

Originally Posted by fyrestrtr

Commentary on works is not subject to copyright. Otherwise, all the tv shows that show demos of software would be getting sued left and right.

Yes, More over then 75% of channels and online media could be screwed.