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  1. #1

    Post Looking for help choosing a host to move from current one

    Hello everybody, new here.
    I searched a bit around and have found some ideas on a couple of hosts to avoid or to check out etc.

    However, as it is such an important decision I decided to open a new thread.

    I have certain needs which my current host somewhat doesn't support well. I am with one of those big known hosting services, less than $10/month.

    I am willing to pay around $20/mo as long as I am guaranteed that my website will be well taken care of/supported. I run a graphics community which usally gets around 15 - 20 ppl online at the same time, and around 60 reg members visiting the forum daily, w/o counting all crawlers and guests.

    My main problem with the current host is, you guessed it, CPU overloads as I am on a shared server. I need a host that can better serve me for the forum. I dont usually get cpu errors daily, so thats good. But it annoys me to get the cpu errors when I am backing up the database. -_-

    Another thing I don't like about my current hosting service is that nowhere on the TOS can I find any reference to their cpu limits/regulations. >_>

    However, one thing I do like, is the fact that they limit it but I am usually able to get back to the forum within a minute.So I am not down for long periods of time and the fact that they haven't suspended my account. I have read that some host simply suspend/shut down ur site for consuming resources even if it was out of ur control or without even a notice. >_> So I don't want one of those hosts.

    My preferred specs:
    • My host shows I have 2316.77 used on disk space. Which I think is what, 2gb?
    • Bandwidth: Over 24gb
    • Email Accounts: At least 50
    • I need to mass email my forum members so I need a host that wont limit this function, Currently they say limit 50 emails. But I have over 1k members so how does that work? Guess only 50 ppl get the email? o.O I am confused.
    • Support for php 4.4.7
    • Mysql 4.1.22
    • Free database backups
    • Cpanel preferred but not required, could be some other nice control panel
    • Around 10 sub domains
    • Would prefer monthly instead of yearly unless is a very solid/reliable host
    • Solid uptime
    • Support 24/7 including live chat (or highly preferred)
    • Clear specs about CPU limits/regulations or preferably a hosting service that can cover the forum software and wont trigger those cpu errors.
    • Should be ok with us having either a chat script (dont have one but just in case) or a modification which allows u to access irc by java.
    I am confused about cpu and transfer data. Is transfer data same as bandwidth?
    What is a good margin for cpu/resources limitations?

    Windows or Linux? I think Linux since im running php application?
    Clustered hosting? Unfamiliar with this? Do i need, would it support my needs better?

    I can only really afford up to $20/month.

    Any questions which could help you help me, feel free to ask.

    Thank you for your time everyone.

    ----
    Also, question, I have a domain which my current host provided.
    What happens when I move to a dif host?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Good afternoon Mishka,

    Quite a range of questions, I'll try to cover a few
    As far as your domain name goes -- you'll need to doublecheck with your existing provider to see what will happen.

    With most providers you'll just need to obtain an EPP/Auth. code & you can then easily transfer it to your new provider. I'd personally recommend setting it up with a 3rd party domain registrar like namecheap.com though, not with your new host!

    In regards to operating system, you'll want to go with a Linix based provider. They tend to function much better overall & have a few better control panels -- as you referenced cPanel previously I'd recommend sticking with the same panel.

    You'll be easily able to migrate your existing site to another cPanel system with minimal effort.
    Last edited by David; 07-23-2007 at 03:05 PM.
    David
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Good afternoon again Mishka!

    In regards to your CPU requirements, look for a provider that isn't offering 'insane' resources. With most providers with 'legitimate, realistic' resources, you'll have more room to 'burst' or increase your usage temporarily without getting suspended.

    The beauty of being on a system with a bunch of other users who have minimal resources -- everyone isn't using very much so there's really 'more' to go around.

    A few recommendations?
    Well, I'd check into synhosting.com -- good company, great owner

    Enjoy the hunt!
    David
    Fused

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Edit: sorry people, I didn't see your replies while typing!

    > Is transfer data same as bandwidth?
    Exactly. You use 24GB, and for growth, you may want to get around 40 GB.

    > What is a good margin for cpu/resources limitations?
    What forum system are you using?

    > Windows or Linux?
    Linux for PHP, windows for ASP.

    > Clustered hosting?
    Well, not yet Not necessary.

    > What happens when I move to a dif host?
    Normally, you should be able to change your DNS addresses for the domain and point to the new host. Your company shouldn't create problems for that. I suggest never buy domain and hosting from the same guys, because some people don't give you your domain if you change your host.
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  5. #5
    o.o So I have to ask my hot what the situation is with the domain? That seems like a way for them to mess with you if you decide to leave them. .><

    I use IPB, with several mods installed. Yes, php so Linux then ^^.
    I heard clustered could help me with the cpu issue for my busy forum.

    How can i know what a realistic cpu limit is?

    Thank you both.

    -----
    if my forum uses MYSQL (4.1.22-standard-log) will a hosting with MySQL 5 work?

  6. #6
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    Mishka,

    To be honest, a clustered solution would potentially offer higher uptime but I doubt it would solve any CPU related issues.
    David
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  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Mishka,

    To be honest, a clustered solution would potentially offer higher uptime but I doubt it would solve any CPU related issues.
    It depends on how the cluster is set up. "Clusters" do not equate to better performance or higher reliability, and in fact can spell disaster as often clusters are setup inproperly and introduce more single points-of-failure.



    Regards,

  8. #8
    Ah ok, ty for that.

    See, am I blind or synhosting.com/termsofservice.php doesnt say anything about cpu/resources limits?

    I don't want to be surprised later, would rather have a hosting service which covers all their limitation on their TOS so you have no surprises later.


    But thank you for the recommendation, I guess I can always contact them but is somewhat quicker to check their TOS for these type of details.

    EDIT: closest thing i found was:
    G) The use of IRC software, BitTorrent software, Proxy software, and automated "bots" is strictly prohibited. The use of some forums and any other multiuser chat software which could create a high load on our servers, disrupt other users, and/or attract Denial of Service attacks is also prohibited. SYN Hosting will deal with any of these issues on a case by case basis, and will attempt to work with client to resolve the issue to both parties satisfaction.


    which I guess doesnt work for me.

    =====
    I have some of his predicaments as well webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=622188
    Last edited by Mishka; 07-23-2007 at 03:38 PM.

  9. #9
    You are using about 2.3 to 2.4 GB of space. You may want to look for a plan that offers at least 3 GB in case you expand.

    Trying to mass email over 1000 members at the same time isn't a great idea, especially on a shared hosting account. Why don't you simply just make an announcement on the forums?

    Also, most hosts don't list a CPU limitation in their TOS. It's usually a case-by-case determination.

    Can you ask your current host what your current CPU usage is? That might help you out a little bit more.

  10. #10
    you have a good budget for shared hsoting and I am sure you ill be able to find a solid hosting. I do not see any requirements for clustered one, shared hosting will fit you well
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  11. #11
    I have asked and i got this:

    "the total of all entries within a 60 second period of time should not be greater than 40 seconds and one single query should not take more than 30 seconds"
    Mass email is for very important updates which want to be announced to those who haven't visited the website as well, to all members. Usually I do this once a month.

    I am just still not sure of what to ask a host or when i read their tos on CPU.

    For instance, I saw hosticananswers.com/questions/101/

    The customer must not:

    • Use 25% or more of system resources for longer then 90 seconds. Applications include: FTP, PHP, HTTP, CGI, PERL, and others.
    • File sharing on the HostICan network is forbidden, this includes peer-to-peer actives.
    • Run any sort of software that interfaces with an IRC (Internet Relay Chat) network.
    • Run any stand-alone, unattended server-side processes at any point in time on the server.
    • This includes any and all daemons, such as IRCD.
    • Run CRON entries with intervals of less than 15 minutes
    a) I don't understand what that limit is, like what it translates to, yes I am a noob like that. XD
    b) File sharing? Does that mean any downloads offered on the site/forum?
    c) I have a mod installed that allows us to connect to irc by using Java.
    d) I have a cron task running every hour.

    This is just for example, but if most shared hosts out there work the same way... T_T what do I do?


    @hanber - my current is shared with a well known host and doesnt work too well. :/

    I see at my host server status: Server Load 7.07 (2 cpus), well actually refreshed and is 9.93 (2 cpus)

  12. #12
    File sharing typically refers to torrents or downloads like LimeWire.

    The cron task is fine.

    Exactly what did you ask your host?

    Also, you may want to try a separate email service from your shared hosting account.

  13. #13
    You might want to check out asmallorange.com. I've been using them now for about a week now after leaving a larger hosting company myself, and have been very impressed thus far.

    One thing I noticed that you mentioned is a java IRC client. As long as you are simply using a java client to connect to an existing IRC network elsewhere (ie, a java client to connect to EfNet), I can't imagine a host blocking that, as it really doesn't connect to their server at all. I think you would be fine on this with any of the hosts you mentioned.

  14. #14
    have you considered searching some internet web host chart? Pick the top ones, maybe they will have what you need.

  15. #15
    @volt - since I have had these cpu exceeded errors before, I asked more about it, which then they answer that was their quota, what I quoted before.

    @richard - Yeah it is java so I think should be ok, but just wondering since some hosts are pretty strict/picky

    edit: @feyd - like top hosts type of lists? I belong to one of them and not working.

  16. #16
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    Mishka, don't bother with CPU limitation details in TOS. You cannot determine your usage before you get kicked out.

    What you should do is, find a host that offers reasonable resources. Not "20 GB space and 1200 GB bandwidth!!!!!"

    4 GB space and 50 GB traffic is enough for you, don't buy more resources for less money. That should keep you up.

    Also, I don't think you really use 2-3 GB with that bandwidth use. You may have many unnecessary files in your FTP, like spam emails and core dumps (files with names like core.13544) etc.
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  17. #17
    What I dont want is a hosting, closing my account cause I exceeded the cpu once or twice a week, especially not when downloading backups. I need someone who has a decent allowance of slq queries in an hour and can cover most of my requirements on my first post.

    Problem is, most of the popular hosting services I read about, around my $20 budget, they are called oversellers or I see several references to the cpu problems.

    The most important thing for me is finding a host which can give me a reliable hosting package, with 99-100% uptime, fast page loads and fast queries, enough to keep my forum's members happy. I have lost some members due to them getting those cpu pages, which are annoying.

  18. #18
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    To be honest, a clustered solution would potentially offer higher uptime but I doubt it would solve any CPU related issues.
    Solve, no, but in theory at least, the load generated by usage peaks would be spread among a couple of servers. That could keep the load that the site places on each individual server relatively low, and thus, fly under the radar/not cause issues.

  19. #19
    Join Date
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    Greetings Mishka:

    I think you can remove these from your considerations since almost every host should be able to do OK with them: Diskspace, Bandwith, PHP4, mySQL 4.1, 50 email accounts.

    Other easy things which are not difficult to find: free db backups, monthly payments, CPanel, sub domains, solid uptime.

    Now the hard things:
    1) CPU usage. With only 20 users at once, you should fit under most shared hosting. But you probably have additional things going on which push you over the limit. This varies from host to host and is hard to define. No shared host will say for sure YES or NO to you until you are actually using their services.

    2) MASS Mailing. Many hosts are anti-spam and limit the # of recipients in an email. Maybe you can break down your TO: recipients. Another option is that some hosts allow "Mailing Lists"

    3) Support 24/7 with LiveChat. Only a few hosts provide Livechat 24/7 but most do provide 24/7 support.

    4) Clear CPU resource restrictions. I have only heard of 1-2 hosts that do provide this restriction in writing. If you really want to be sure, you'll have to go to a VPS where CPU usage is defined and limited. VPS' are entirely different and also have their own problems (you have to manage, higher cost)

    5) Clustered Hosting is the same as any other shared hosting. However, depending on the provider, you may get higher CPU usage since it's not all on one machine. As LDCDC says, the load is moved among various other servers so it's not so high in one area.
    Depending on your Cluster provider, the Control Panel, mySQL and Web are on 3 different servers instead of 1.

    6) Aside from Clustering, I would also look at "Application" hosting. Those companies also specialize in higher CPU loads than normal Shared Hosting.

    Other things: Chatboxes aren't too hard to find hosting for But IRC is hard, many hosts don't allow IRC of any sort. If you really want IRC, you should find one that clearly states they allow IRC.
    Last edited by imountain; 07-23-2007 at 07:26 PM.
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  20. #20
    Its very important for you to evaluate how much are you using currently, you were having CPU errors with only 15-20 users online which can easily be handled in shared hosting.
    so either your current host is very strict with CPU or your forum is using alot more than required.
    are you using some mods on your forum like shoutbox etc ?
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  21. #21
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    What I dont want is a hosting, closing my account cause I exceeded the cpu once or twice a week, especially not when downloading backups. I need someone who has a decent allowance of slq queries in an hour and can cover most of my requirements on my first post.
    Do you use any special script to do this? do you use phpmyadmin? or mysqldump from the command line? how big your DB is?
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  22. #22
    Your board should not be using that much CPU with only 60 members online daily. Are you running anything else on your account?

    Also, you can backup your own databases with phpmyadmin

  23. #23
    Thank you for the replies.

    1) I am still a bit confused about clustered, guess more searches here should help with that then.
    2) Not really running irc on the server but the forum has a mod which allows users to connect to IRC through your forums using java. http://mods.invisionize.com/db/index.php/f/5382
    3) I do have a few mods installed but no shoutbox, I installed shoutbox over a yr ago and the host couldnt handle it, would give me cpu errors very often so I removed.
    4) The Mass Mailing is from the invision power board service, no way to limit the "to" just which groups you want to send them to and member group alone is over 1k.
    5) imountain funny thing, I was checking http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...ight=imountain and wondered about those plans but if unmanaged, I dont have the knowledge to do so.
    6) Not familiar with the term "application" hosting so I will research.
    7) I posted their cpu limit, 20% I think, they said "the total of all entries within a 60 second period of time should not be greater than 40 secondsand one single query should not take more than 30 seconds" Not sure how strict that is compared to other shared service hosters out there.
    8) For backups, I have used their cpanel as well as phpmyadmin, gives me cpu exceeded error with either. The db gzipped is around 20megs
    9) I am also running a gallery and image hosting for members but they are not consuming bandwith really and gallery is not that visited/active really. The main activity is at the forum.

  24. #24
    Join Date
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    1) Clustering is a highly debated topic. As we are a clustered company, of course we will think it's best. There is no right/wrong answer.

    2) You should be fine as most limits to IRC involve RUNNING an IRC server. You will be more like a client. Such scripts do tend to be CPU intensive.

    5) They are setup and partially managed by request. Per forum rules I cannot discuss US further here but you're free to contact us.

    6) Application hosting is tailored towards speed as opposed to regular shared hosting which caters to existence. It's OK to have an average speed website in regular shared hosting. But Application hosters pride themselves in the speed at which your website runs. Most Application Hosters are of excellent quality and tend to have a higher tolerance for high CPU usage. Truly quality over quantity.

    9) Galleries always tend to take up quite a bit of CPU usage, even if there's only 1 user browsing them. If it happens that google is also browsing your gallery, you will get a hefty CPU spike.
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  25. #25
    2. If you want to lower CPU usage a bit, you may want to disable that mod. Also, many hosts don't allow IRC and it could hinder your search for another host.

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