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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Does This Sound Odd to You?

    This is the gist of a conversation between the 'boss'(?) of a hosting company and me. I was about to sign up for a $30 reseller account.

    him:
    If the application you need is required to run on the server level itself we won't be able to support it as we don't want other cPanel Reseller accounts make use of this same application.
    me:
    I'm curious why you would not want your other shared server customers to have acess to a very useful script. Pair Networks, for one, runs SWISH-E on a number of their shared servers .. just as they would many other common scripts.

    It allow a user to configure and deploy a great site search for their websites.

    I'm wondering if you have even taken a look at SWISH-E

    Just curious .. your response sounds odd.
    him:
    This is the first it has been asked for but if we had demand for it I would bet we would offer it. So it is more about demand then anything else.
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  2. #2
    Probably saved you a job of finding out he was a one man band kiddie host by virtually admitting "I have no darned idea how to install or what on earth that module is, so I'll just ******** the client"
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff - Exceed View Post
    Probably saved you a job of finding out he was a one man band kiddie host by virtually admitting "I have no darned idea how to install or what on earth that module is, so I'll just ******** the client"
    For a number of reasons, I left out the name. They are a prominent hosting company with good reviews and advertise here on WHT ..
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff - Exceed View Post
    Probably saved you a job of finding out he was a one man band kiddie host by virtually admitting "I have no darned idea how to install or what on earth that module is, so I'll just ******** the client"
    Would you install every software that one of your customer wants on your shared hosting server?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40sixty View Post
    Would you install every software that one of your customer wants on your shared hosting server?
    Maybe you didn't see the apparent contradiction between his 2 statements as I did?

    Or maybe you didn't want to?
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  6. #6
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    I'm sorry, but maybe you could spell out the apparent contradiction in the two statements.

    He didn't say he couldn't or wouldn't and he didn't even dispute that you and others might like the feature. He merely said there wasn't great demand for it. How is that "apparently contradictory"?

    It may be a great tool but every server application that a reseller account is permitted to run will consume additional resources. There are no free lunches.

    If you feel strongly about wanting that service then go to a host that does provide it.
    Rich
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  7. #7
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    Prehaps they see it as a potential security risk and they want to limit the number of potential holes. IF its running on the server it might run as root which in turn might open them to more hacking attempts
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDog View Post
    I'm sorry, but maybe you could spell out the apparent contradiction in the two statements.

    He didn't say he couldn't or wouldn't and he didn't even dispute that you and others might like the feature. He merely said there wasn't great demand for it. How is that "apparently contradictory"?
    "we don't want other cPanel Reseller accounts make use of this same application"

    "if we had demand for it I would bet we would offer it."

    You don't see any contradiction there?
    It may be a great tool but every server application that a reseller account is permitted to run will consume additional resources. There are no free lunches.
    Um .. climb down off you soapbox .. I don't need a sermon today.

    If you feel strongly about wanting that service then go to a host that does provide it.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by a2b2 View Post
    Prehaps they see it as a potential security risk and they want to limit the number of potential holes. IF its running on the server it might run as root which in turn might open them to more hacking attempts
    Yes, it does run as root .. which is actually one of the advantages. Anyone on the server can do their own config and set up site search.

    I think most people don't know about it, although it has been around a long time. Very stable, written in C, has to be compiled. At least 2 of the older shared hosts I used in the past had it on the server.

    Further, a PERL script has to be configured to show search results.

    I have a 1,200 page site and the file that holds all the data is only 1.6 m .. and this thing is FAST! .. runs rings around a PHP/mySQL search tool.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_expat View Post
    "we don't want other cPanel Reseller accounts make use of this same application"

    "if we had demand for it I would bet we would offer it."

    You don't see any contradiction there?
    No, I don't. Where is the contradiction? Again, one way of looking at this is from his standpoint as a thing that would affect his bottom line. If he offers another root level service then that means more server resources as every cPanel account can now use a search feature. This means, ultimately, less clients on one server - hence, he'd have to charge more per client or increase the cost of each reseller account.

    Thus, the answer that "...there's not much demand..." makes perfect sense to me. In other words, people aren't beating down his door for it and so he can currently "get away" with a limited feature set.

    Um .. climb down off you soapbox .. I don't need a sermon today.

    If you don't want opinions then don't post in open forum. I asked you a simple question. Are you merely pontificating here or do you want feedback?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_expat View Post
    Maybe you didn't see the apparent contradiction between his 2 statements as I did?

    Or maybe you didn't want to?
    If you want to install specific software, get a VPS, simple as that.
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  12. #12
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    Yes, if he is not offering it, why are you forcing him?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDog View Post
    If you don't want opinions then don't post in open forum. I asked you a simple question. Are you merely pontificating here or do you want feedback?
    You changed the topic .. go start your own about the financial aspects of running a hosting business if that's what you want to talk about .. and don't even presume to tell me where to post.
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  14. #14
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    It executes are root?
    Am I reading that correctly?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zafar Ahmed View Post
    Yes, if he is not offering it, why are you forcing him?
    If you found what seemed a good hosting package and it only lacked 1 feature, wouldn't you ask for that?

    FWIW, I need it for the site search on 6 of my sites.

    But don't get me wrong. I never said he should add that to his server. I simply saw a contradiction in his reasoning.

    "dont want others to use it" vs "if a lot of people asked for it"

    It is a subtle thing. Read what I said in my original post.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    It executes are root?
    Am I reading that correctly?
    Yes, have a look at swish-e.org

    It's quite a nice and efficient tool.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_expat View Post
    Yes, have a look at swish-e.org

    It's quite a nice and efficient tool.
    Er, hell no.
    It might be perfect for a system in which there's only a single user but anything executing as root is ripe for exploitation. Especially if it's interacting with the web... I haven't read much more about it but if that's the case, any company running it is going to end up with a few surprises.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40sixty View Post
    If you want to install specific software, get a VPS, simple as that.
    *sigh*

    I have a VPS .. I was thinking of migrating to a reseller account.

    FWIW, if I understand it .. the application can be installed per site. But if that is the case, then is much less efficient and loads the server more.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Er, hell no.
    It might be perfect for a system in which there's only a single user but anything executing as root is ripe for exploitation. Especially if it's interacting with the web... I haven't read much more about it but if that's the case, any company running it is going to end up with a few surprises.
    It doesn't interact with the web .. for about the 10th time .. it is a site search tool. Why not read about before making a "hell no" comment.

    I don't know what "executing as root" means, so I should have probably asked for clarification. But you should have done your homework as well.
    Last edited by old_expat; 07-21-2007 at 10:03 AM. Reason: add last para
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_expat View Post
    It doesn't interact with the web .. for about the 10th time .. it is a site search tool. Why not read about before making a "hell no" comment.
    Well, if that isn't interacting with the web I don't know what is. Unless it's generating the files server-side & is unable to accept input from users at all.

    I still wouldn't trust it.
    In reply to the original post though, yes -- it sounds a tad "odd" that he's referencing that he doesn't want it used by everyone else and "there's no demand" for it in the same sentence. Other than the fact that he's potentially countering his own argument, it's still their choice in the end.

    Best of luck with it!
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Well, if that isn't interacting with the web I don't know what is. Unless it's generating the files server-side ..
    Yes

    .. & is unable to accept input from users at all.
    I think you need to qualify what "accept input" means. Site users fill in a "search" text box .. pretty much like millions of other sites on the web.

    If you would like to see a demo, PM me and I will give you one of my URLs.

    I still wouldn't trust it.
    Although you haven't researched it?
    In reply to the original post though, yes -- it sounds a tad "odd" that he's referencing that he doesn't want it used by everyone else and "there's no demand" for it in the same sentence. Other than the fact that he's potentially countering his own argument,
    I think "there's no demand" seems like a marketing opportunity.

    it's still their choice in the end.
    That's what I told them .. I just wanted to know why.

    Best of luck with it!
    Thanks. I will get it done. It's just a matter of by whom.
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  22. #22
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    There's no contradiction. If you offer something, people will use it...just because its there and just because people like to fiddle around with things. If there's no demand for it, there's no sense in installing it and then having less server resources available for things that customers do demand in the future.

    --Tina
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  23. #23
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    There is not one thing odd about this at all.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    There's no contradiction. If you offer something, people will use it...
    Any very possibly get a good deal of benefit from it.

    How many sites on one of your shared servers have site search tools installed?

    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    If there's no demand for it, there's no sense in installing it and then having less server resources available for things that customers do demand in the future.

    --Tina
    If people don't know it's available how can there be demand for it? Don't you advertise your business so people know what's available? Don't you offer a number of packages on your servers that not everyone uses?
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam View Post
    There is not one thing odd about this at all.
    Yes there is.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam View Post
    There is not one thing odd about this at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by old_expat View Post
    Yes there is.
    There is something odd - how childish a 66 year old man will act in an open forum.

    One would think people would learn some things in that time but as the saying goes: "There's no fool, like an old fool."

    I tried interacting professionally with you but I'm through. You obviously prefer temper tantrums to reasonable conversation about a subject.

    You stated there was an apparent contradiction. I asked you what it was and you have presented no argument where a logical contradiction exists. The only "argument" presented thus far is the over-use of the Roll Eyes smiley.

    I will now answer your argument with my counter-argument:

    There, I too have made an argument of the quality that you have thus presented to demonstrate that this is not an apparent contradiction.

    Check and mate!
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  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by old_expat View Post
    go start your own about the financial aspects of running a hosting business if that's what you want to talk about .. and don't even presume to tell me where to post.


    Now here is a great contradiction.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDog View Post

    I will now answer your argument with my counter-argument:
    Oh dear.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_expat View Post
    Oh dear.
    Come on. Let's all take a step back and try to act like adults.

    People have different opinions - and you asked for them. Don't beat them to death because you don't agree with them.

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    Come on. Let's all take a step back and try to act like adults.

    People have different opinions - and you asked for them. Don't beat them to death because you don't agree with them.

    --Tina
    I totally agree.

    If you come to a forum asking for advice on something then don't get mad when people give you advice your not looking for.

    You want software that is not generally provided by most hosts installed on a server when you only have a reseller account. Obviously that would not happen, if you want the software installed get a VPS or Dedicated Server. Simple as that.

    Most hosts keep all of there servers running the same software with the same versions so they know what needs to be upgraded and when all of the time. No host wants to go install this piece of software, or that piece of software, then have to worry about removing it when the customer leaves or upgrading it.

    You want that piece of software, get a VPS or dedicated server.

    Don't get mad at people when they don't agree with you, it's a fact of life. People aren't going to agree with you all of the time.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina View Post
    Come on. Let's all take a step back and try to act like adults.

    People have different opinions - and you asked for them. Don't beat them to death because you don't agree with them.

    --Tina
    Actually, I think I have handled the rational arguments in a fairly adult manner.

    But I do take strong issue when someone tells me not to post here.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam View Post
    I totally agree.

    If you come to a forum asking for advice on something then don't get mad when people give you advice your not looking for.
    As I stated above, my "angry smiley" was about the person's directive that I not post here. And to be accurate, I was asking what I considered contradictory statements. I was not asking for advice

    The reason I responded to you in the manner I did after your first post ..

    .. you made an absolute and curt statement without any other comment. I saw that as worth a "roll of eyes".

    Quote Originally Posted by adam View Post
    You want software that is not generally provided by most hosts installed on a server when you only have a reseller account. Obviously that would not happen, if you want the software installed get a VPS or Dedicated Server. Simple as that.
    Actually, 2 hosts that I have hosted with use it on shared servers. One is Pair Networks.


    Quote Originally Posted by adam View Post
    Most hosts keep all of there servers running the same software with the same versions so they know what needs to be upgraded and when all of the time. No host wants to go install this piece of software, or that piece of software, then have to worry about removing it when the customer leaves or upgrading it.
    See above.
    You want that piece of software, get a VPS or dedicated server.
    Already answered above .. I already have a VPS, but looking to move to reseller.
    Don't get mad at people when they don't agree with you, it's a fact of life. People aren't going to agree with you all of the time.
    I was not angry, just sternly opposed to someone telling me where to post. Something(s) I said apparently got DevilDog's nose out of joint.

    His rant sounded awfully angry to me. Are you sure you are responding to my posts, or taking his word for it?

    Anyhow, if you were offended by my , just remember that I was offended by the curtness of your first post.

    Had you written in you first message as you did in this one, it wouldn't have happened.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_expat View Post
    Actually, I think I have handled the rational arguments in a fairly adult manner.

    But I do take strong issue when someone tells me not to post here.
    I suppose we could continue a debate on what constitutes "rational arguments." But I think there's enough information within this thread for any person to draw an informed conclusion.

    Thread closed.
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