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Thread: Is it just me.
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07-20-2002, 10:34 AM #1Web Hosting Master
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Is it just me.
or are people really as thick as a brick?
I see all these people come on here day after day upset because their $2.00 a month host did them wrong, the $20.00 a year guy went out of business and they lost all their files or they have been messed over by thier last 3 host in less than 6 months.
BUT yet they go to the request fourm and ask for the cheapest hosting they can get at unrealistic prices. How many times do they have lose before they learn?
Or maybe I am being too unrealistic.
Just rambling my thoughts, carry on now, discuss amongst yourselves.
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07-20-2002, 11:06 AM #2Junior Guru Wannabe
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Noticed that LOL
Like they say : U get what u pay for
Well unless it says unlimited anywereProxima Web-Hosting
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07-20-2002, 12:16 PM #3Registered User
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So only the rich ones should be able to get their own domain?
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07-20-2002, 12:36 PM #4Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by andiegirl
So only the rich ones should be able to get their own domain?<?
header("Location: http://www.hostevolve.com/");
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07-20-2002, 01:13 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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Well, it comes down to education and understanding about how much these services actually cost, thus what a host can provide for what price. What the heck am I talking about?
Well, we all know cars, even used ones generally go for more than $100. I had a friend who swore by the $100 used wrecks. She was a student, didn't have money to buy anything more really, so she'd go out and find a $100 and drive it until it died. Now, she was aware that a $100 had an approximate lifespam of 3-4 months max., so she didn't get upset when it died, she just got a new $100 car. Now that she isn't a student, she has a $20,000 car which actually works and has lasted more than 3 months
Point is that most poeple (even some in the industry and some who provide the services) don't really understand the nature of the business (or any business for that matter) or costs in general, in order to create a stable company which will grow long-term. If you have dreams of one day opening up your own data center, you most likely won't get there by offering $10/yr. 500MB space/20GB transfer accounts.
My opinion only...
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07-20-2002, 01:18 PM #6Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by Chicken
Well, it comes down to education and understanding about how much these services actually cost, thus what a host can provide for what price. What the heck am I talking about?
Well, we all know cars, even used ones generally go for more than $100. I had a friend who swore by the $100 used wrecks. She was a student, didn't have money to buy anything more really, so she'd go out and find a $100 and drive it until it died. Now, she was aware that a $100 had an approximate lifespam of 3-4 months max., so she didn't get upset when it died, she just got a new $100 car. Now that she isn't a student, she has a $20,000 car which actually works and has lasted more than 3 months
Point is that most poeple (even some in the industry and some who provide the services) don't really understand the nature of the business (or any business for that matter) or costs in general, in order to create a stable company which will grow long-term. If you have dreams of one day opening up your own data center, you most likely won't get there by offering $10/yr. 500MB space/20GB transfer accounts.
My opinion only...
Althrough, I understand customers wanting everything for nothing, I can't understand Host offering everything for nothing, don't they even do maths?█ Shared Web Hosting - Reseller Hosting - Semi-Dedicated Servers - SolusVM/XEN VPS
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07-20-2002, 01:30 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by andiegirl
So only the rich ones should be able to get their own domain?
There are plenty of good host that provide low cost personal plans. What I am refering to is the ones that come here asking for 500 megs of space and 25 gigs of transfer for $4.00 a month.
They may get it but they will not have it for long, and then they complain because the host shut down, they lost their files and $4.00.
So they come back requesting again and this time they demand 24/7/365, 20 minute response support a host that has been in business for a year and they are willing to pay $6.00 a month to get it by-golly.
Well DUH! How many times do they have to fall off that merry-go-round before they figure it out?
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07-20-2002, 02:40 PM #8Ahh! I'm sideways!
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Originally posted by andiegirl
So only the rich ones should be able to get their own domain?
Hosting is cheap, too. You don't have to be a fscking millionaire to have a good, reliable host, you just can't ask for unreasonable amounts of bandwidth and space like quite a few of the people are here. Either that, or you can get what you pay for, but don't come complaining about it when it isn't exactly what the company said it was; especially after visiting this board, when you are warned by dozens and dozens of people about hosts offering outstanding offers for unbelieveable prices.
Keyword in the last sentence: unbelievable. As in, don't believe it!!
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07-20-2002, 02:50 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by andiegirl
So only the rich ones should be able to get their own domain?
I don't think that is only for rich people.
Hosting its a service, and cost money, to you and to hosts.
Like you can't get a ferrari testarrosa for $1000, you can't get either a reliable host for $10/year█ Shared Web Hosting - Reseller Hosting - Semi-Dedicated Servers - SolusVM/XEN VPS
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07-20-2002, 03:06 PM #10ex-Aussie
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I'm almost beyond even trying to explain it anymore... Webhosting is one of those odd industries where, due to the fact people can't 'kick the tires', or hold something physical in their hands, they assume it's worth next to nothing. Well, contrary to opinion (and even Chicken's post about cars - sorry Chicken), webhosting isn't a product... it's a service.
If you tie up all the ends, wrap it in a bow and actually define what this whole hosting thing actually is, you'll still find you don't 'have' anything.
What you do get is people looking after your best interests, making sure your website is online when it should be. You find people watching the servers, making updates, maintaining the system. You find people working all all hours of the day, looking for new opportunities to expand the features you signed up for.
You find, with the right choice on your part, a service that's built to reduce the worry you might experience when you step away from the computer to go on with your life - enjoying your time with family, going on holiday.. in short, living. The people you pay this money to each month have the job of handling that worry and concern for you.
We go grey - you go to the Bahamas.
Now, when you decide to choose an unrealistically priced choice for your hosting needs, you place that peace of mind you were expecting in the hands of people who know for a fact, they're recieving very little as far as income goes. Unless I mistake human nature (which I don't often do), there's going to be a lowering of the level of service they feel each individual account is worth, especially if there's a large amount of growth happening due to these 'unbeatable prices'.
It's my simple opinion that businesses that price themselves this way haven't done their homework. Businesses have costs, and quite frankly, many of these webhosts are running at a loss regardless of what they think. They haven't factored in the human resource time that's needed to operate in this industry successfully. All they've done is look at what a box costs, how many accounts they need to cram on to make a profit, then start advertising like mad to get there.
All fine and good (and a successful strategy), IF you were selling a product that was bought once, and forgotten about (like washing machines, or cars, or stereo equipment). Short of breaking down the seller doesn't need to think about the product ever again. Not so with webhosting, or any other service industry.
Quality equipment comes at a cost, as does the time involved in looking after that equipment so it performs the way it should. But the advantage of these costs, is a much reduced requirement for the customer to be hounding their provider as to why 'things don't work', whether it be a server issue, a network issue, a billing issue, or a hundred other small and large problems that may occur on a daily basis.
Success in this industry is about commitment to the service you provide. People come and go all the time simply because it's not easy to make a lot of money from this game, regardless of the hype of the internet being a hold grail of free cash. When all is said and done, it's just the same online, as offline. It takes effort, ability, and in no small part, blood sweat, and tears to carve out a successful business.
While a few companies have made it possible to get equipment at a very cheap rate, they've yet to prove their worth (or maybe they've done exactly that come to think of it). Most of the issues I personally see on this forum come down to a select few places in regard to the equipment being provided to people who start their own hosting business. While many of quick to jump on those providers, there has got to be some blame placed on the business owners heads as well. The total effect however is clear - poor service. While I wouldn't suggest that expensive service is error free, it does seem that you hear a lot less concerns from customers who are housed at these hosting companys.
While cheap hosts will always exist, there are always people who will get roasted by them. In time they generally progress up the cost scale to where the rest of us are and become satisfied, content, customers happy with higher service levels. Their trials and tribulations at the low end of the hosting business makes them keenly aware of an industry that is fraught with poor decisions, and outright fraudsters. They end up at hosts who they see week after week, year after year, are still online and still providing a service that's been paid for.. and delivered, day after day.
It's not magic - just good old fashioned hard work.
Greg MooreFormer Webhost... now, just a guy.
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07-20-2002, 03:22 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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Chicken: Well said.
What strikes me even more are the people who watch $2 host after $2 host go out of business, yet open up one themselves. Do people know what a business plan is? Have they ever actually sat down, thought about expenses and long term plans?
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07-20-2002, 04:22 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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. . . and then they complain because the host shut down, they lost their files and $4.00.
Too funny.
We should have a "Whaaaaaaaaaa" section so we only have to go there and read it when we want a laugh.DANG DANG! DANG!!™
I know ***** ripped off everybody else, but they wouldn't do it to me.
"When you use bottom feed for bait, you are only going to catch bottom feeders."
"You do what you are, and you are what you do."
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07-20-2002, 04:43 PM #13Registered User
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I didn't mean the domain name, I know those are cheap, I meant webhosting services.
I know that it cost money to maintain a server, but those companies that gives you 50 mb space for $24/month is ripping you off. Seriously, it doesn't cost them that much to give you 50 mb disk space.
And I know for a fact that there are hosts out there with decent prices that will give you what you are paying for.
And now, I don't mean those "unlimited" hosts for two bucks a month.
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07-20-2002, 04:56 PM #14Ahh! I'm sideways!
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Originally posted by andiegirl
I didn't mean the domain name, I know those are cheap, I meant webhosting services.
I know that it cost money to maintain a server, but those companies that gives you 50 mb space for $24/month is ripping you off. Seriously, it doesn't cost them that much to give you 50 mb disk space.
And I know for a fact that there are hosts out there with decent prices that will give you what you are paying for.
And now, I don't mean those "unlimited" hosts for two bucks a month.
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07-20-2002, 05:01 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by andiegirl
And I know for a fact that there are hosts out there with decent prices that will give you what you are paying for.
And now, I don't mean those "unlimited" hosts for two bucks a month.
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07-20-2002, 05:07 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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I didn't mean the domain name, I know those are cheap, I meant webhosting services.
So only the rich ones should be able to get their own domain?DANG DANG! DANG!!™
I know ***** ripped off everybody else, but they wouldn't do it to me.
"When you use bottom feed for bait, you are only going to catch bottom feeders."
"You do what you are, and you are what you do."
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07-20-2002, 05:11 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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I don't want to be negative, but I still disagree with you andiegirl.
Do you know what's the wage for a tech 8 hr/day 5 days a week? $30.000/year at least.
Do you know what's the wage for a network enginner? $80.000/year at least.
Do you know how host paid those wage to their employees? with what the customers pay.
Usually when I saw those host offering plans $3/month, I wonder how they do it, or if they plan to stay in bussines to much time, or how do they plan do grow up.
If you see the prices in DTH, you'll see that I'm one of the expensive host in this forum, and I can only hire 2 guys and they 2 get more money than me.█ Shared Web Hosting - Reseller Hosting - Semi-Dedicated Servers - SolusVM/XEN VPS
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07-20-2002, 09:13 PM #18Junior Guru
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Originally posted by andiegirl
I know that it cost money to maintain a server, but those companies that gives you 50 mb space for $24/month is ripping you off. Seriously, it doesn't cost them that much to give you 50 mb disk space.
You just stated that someone who is buying hosting is paying only for disk space.. you forgot to mention bandwidth... which seems like everyone today wants for pennies. 50mb for $20/month I think is pretty darn fair and is what it used to cost back when I first got involved in this industry... the ONLY reason that it has dropped in price is because every 14-17 year old is becoming a host.. working out of their parents basement.. forcing everyone else in the industry to compete with their ridiculously low prices.
The truth of the matter. You can't be a host who offers alot for $5/month. If you do you will get many signups, not have enough money to hire people for support/administration... and also not have enough money to purchase more servers when the one you are placing accounts on gets overloaded. 50mb account can use up ALOT of resources.. many hosts and clients don't take the resource usage into consideration either.. when you have this happen and you charge $5/month you either a) keep cramming the server until its down every 5 minutes or b) go out of business because clients that are paying this $5/month start reporting you to the BBB.
It's such a sad industry we are in today.. I get at least 1-2 tickets a month asking why I don't have my plans as cheap as xyz host... it gets on my nerves that I have to explain that if I did price my services that low I wouldn't be able to function as a business, let alone a human being.. because also what I see is that people don't realize that a host also has to live... car/house/food/etc. and from paying server costs/bandwidth costs/employee costs/other business costs... there is very little left over after paying for your own personal needs and the business needs to even go out and watch a movie Friday night to relax after working 126 hours/week! Now.. if we were all minors living with Mommy and Daddy then the $5/month hosting idea would be much more feasable.. yet you'd still be stuck with a lame host that can't work all day due to high school and not be able to hire real employees because that would be against the law.
I think when andiegirl made the comment "So only the rich ones should be able to get their own domain?" she really meant that only adults who have jobs should be able to get hosting. $20/month by no means is an amount only rich people can afford.. middle class can afford this easy too. If you have enough money to buy a computer and have the internet.. then I'm betting you are in either one of these classes. If you can't afford $20/month then I assume you are a child or unemployed (in which case you should be spending your time looking for a job and not playing on the internet).. if you are a child.. you shouldn't even be looking for a paid host as it is illegal to go into contract (which is what you do when you buy a service from most hosts) with a minor.
Anyway.. I'm babbling now and hopefully I haven't stepped on too many toes (just annoyed tonight.. it's too hot LOL). No one will really know what it's like to be a host until they try it out themselves with the intention to do the best that they can. Once they see how difficult it really is maybe they will then understand why most hosts who plan to stick around charge higher prices than the kiddie-hosts out there. Anyhow.. ever ask your host why they are a host and what keeps them in the business? I can bet at least 80% won't know how to answer. I don't even know sometimes why I take the abuse that I do.. I guess the good parts must out-weigh the bad still trying to find out how to calculate that and make sure I'm not just a complete nut-case for being a host... LOL
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07-20-2002, 09:28 PM #19Web Hosting Guru
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Just off the top of my head:
Credit card fees
Server rental or colo fees
Defaulting customers
Secure certificate
20 hour work days
Advertising
Internet connection, if you don't have a DC
800 number charges
Telephone hookup
Staff
Security consultants
Third-party backup service
Fax machine
Taxes
Legal consulting
Business license
Letterheads
That list took me about 30 seconds, and when I hit "Submit Reply" I'll think of 10 more.
I'm running a business, not a charity. Web hosting is a luxury. If you can't afford 10 bucks a month, then you don't need a web host.
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07-20-2002, 09:32 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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Yes, its simple...
You GET what YOU pay FOR...
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07-20-2002, 10:13 PM #21Registered User
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Elena,
*looks at your website*
You have decent prices, and here you're saying that only 14-17 yearolds have decent prices. Is that a bit of jealousy I smell?
Then you're judging me and saying that I'm either a child or unemployeed just because I want some money left to live of after I pay for my rent and everthing else. I have four cats and they are expensive to maintain, they get the best food there is out there (the most expensive one too), the best kittylitter, insurances, my broadband connection etc.
And yes, I don't have a job. That's not because I'm lazy (like many americans think ), it's because there are no jobs in my area right now.
You guys earn the big bucks from COMPANIES, not regular people.
And I know how much servers cost, I'm very interested in computers and my fianceé is studying to become a computer engineer, so you don't have to question my knowledge.
I think we have different views because we are from different cultures. I'm from a socialist country and see things from a socialist perspective (I think that ALL people have rights to have the same things, for example medical care is completely free in Sweden, dental care is free too until you're 20), and you are from a capitalist country where everything is about getting as much money as possible.
I don't want to step on any toes so I'm just going to shut up now and go to bed. After all it's 4:20 AM... (I'm such a geek)
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07-20-2002, 10:20 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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Gosh it must be nice to be able to afford broadband and feed your cats the best food money can buy, but not to be able to spend $10.00 on hosting. I am sorry no where I can find is it written that everyone in the world has a right to have a web page.
Try feeding your cats medium grade food and your host a little more and maybe your web sites wil run a little smoother.
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07-20-2002, 10:27 PM #23Registered User
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Originally posted by Monte
Gosh it must be nice to be able to afford broadband and feed your cats the best food money can buy, but not to be able to spend $10.00 on hosting. I am sorry no where I can find is it written that everyone in the world has a right to have a web page.
Try feeding your cats medium grade food and your host a little more and maybe your web sites wil run a little smoother.
What I'm against is those who'll give you 50 mb space/1 gb transfer and yet asks for 25-35 bucks/month!
And by the way, I would never give my cats bad supermarket kind of food just so I could get more stuff.
You don't have to get bitchy about it either, I wasn't attacking you, or anyone else for that matter.
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07-20-2002, 10:29 PM #24Web Hosting Master
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andiegirl, seems like you don't really know a lot about this bussines
you said
You guys earn the big bucks from COMPANIES, not regular people.
Also, you compare medical care with hosting, as somebody said, hosting its a luxury, its not a need.
If you can't affort $30 per month for a web host, then you don't need a host.█ Shared Web Hosting - Reseller Hosting - Semi-Dedicated Servers - SolusVM/XEN VPS
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07-20-2002, 10:40 PM #25Registered User
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If you can't affort $30 per month for a web host, then you don't need a host.