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  1. #1

    Suggestions for Reseller Host (Specific Requirements)

    I know you guys probably get a thousand of these suggestion requests, but I haven't quite found what I'm looking for using the Search.

    I've currently got a custom deal with a local hosting company where I'm an H-Sphere reseller with my own physical server (which I own and maintain the hardware). I'm happy with the arrangement except I think I bit off more than I could chew. I don't want to support my own hardware anymore and the bandwidth charges are killing me ($7/GB).

    I went with this arrangement because I host custom web applications (I'm a php/java developer) for my clients and I need a lot of control over my server.

    Server Requirements:
    - 10 GB disk space to start
    - 50-100 GB included bandwidth with reasonable overage rates
    - Root access (or at least someone I can call to make changes)
    - PHP 5 (PHP4 would be nice but optional)
    - mySQL
    - PostgreSQL
    - Apache/Unix
    - Control Panel: I'm currently using HSphere, but I wouldn't mind trying out cPanel
    - Ruby on Rails would be nice
    - Java might be a possible future requirement

    My dilemma is that I require the flexibility of a dedicated server (i.e. root access, the ability to load Java if I need it) and the scalability of a shared solution. I only have enough sys admin skills to be dangerous, so I need knowledgeable support and I'd like the ability to scale everything up as my company grows.

    I've been looking at the big guys like Dreamhost and Host Gator, but I'm not sure if they can offer the services I require. For example, if I require Java in the future, I'd like the host to install, maintain and support it for me.

    I would like to keep costs below $100/month if possible, but I realize I might have to go with a smaller outfit and pay more.

    I'm only familiar with shared and dedicated solutions. Would VPS be the way to go? Are there any good hosts out there that fit the bill?

  2. #2
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    Hi!

    Are you using JSP/Servlets? or what kind of Java support do you need?
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  3. #3
    Hello Tony,

    based on your requirements, you would really need to be in a dedicated environment - and maybe a VPS would be a good fit for you. Eitherway, you are looking at a fully managed situation - so, for your budget, a VPS may be your only real option.

    - Root access (or at least someone I can call to make changes)
    What sort of changes do you actually require root access for or what sort of changes would you be requesting?
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  4. #4
    Your requirement of root access can only be met using a VPS or a dedicated. Since you are not keen on system administration, I would suggest looking for a managed VPS.

    There should be plenty of good VPS providers in the VPS forum.

  5. #5
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    Yes with your requirements i would Look into a VPS server. with that kind of budget you can find a high end managed VPS easy!

    Look in the VPS offer forums here on WHT and i am sure you will find a good deal.

    And have a look at KnownHost.com we have two servers with them and happy with the support we get. they are not fully managed servers tho. But they are more then happy to help with anything you need.

    Good Luck with your search and hope you find a host for you!

  6. #6
    You can also find entry dedicated servers for around $100/month with specs similar too single chip 2.4 GHZ 512 mb cache, 2 GB ram, 2 x 80 GB hard drives

    Considering your needs are minimum a server like this provides you with a little room to grow as well.
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  7. #7
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    Your budget is good .. in this budget yes you can find a unmanaged dedicated server from a reputable provider ...

    But if you want to save money then you can go with unmanaged VPS .. some are knownhost furturehost, powervps, rackforice etc

    Another solution will be managed VPS .. you don't have to worry about managing VPS services i.e wiredtree , modvps etc

  8. #8
    Thanks for all the suggestions. A fully managed VPS is probably what I'm looking for. But is there anything "lower" than VPS, but better than shared? I don't want to run into one of the nightmare scenarios I've read about overselling.

    To answer your questions, I don't know the exact Java implementation I would need, but it would probably be Tomcat running servlets and JSP. It's not a big thing though since I don't actually need it right now. I just mentioned it as a possibility.

    And I don't really need root access either. I would just feel lost without it. I can't remember specifics but there are times when I need to su to root. Last week I needed a superuser account to install plpgsql for one one of my PG databases, but that could have been done without root I guess. I can live with out it.

    Since I'll also be hosting run-of-the-mill web customers too, what would be my options if I narrowed down the requirements to this (no root, no Java):

    - 10 GB disk space to start
    - 50-100 GB included bandwidth with reasonable overage rates
    - PHP 5 (PHP4 would be nice but optional)
    - mySQL
    - PostgreSQL
    - Apache/Unix
    - Control Panel: I'm currently using HSphere, but I wouldn't mind trying out cPanel
    - Ruby on Rails would be nice

    Thanks for all the responses so far.

  9. #9
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    Hello Tony,

    Well with a budget of less then $100/mo this will be easy to find.

    Alot of host offer PHP4/5 on there servers i would check with the host to make sure they do before singup. Same go for ROR (Ruby on Rails).

    Im not uptodate with HSphere but you should look into cPanel/WHM for a Control Panel! http://www.cpanel.net/

    Just search the forums for a host for you!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarmWebHost View Post
    Hello Tony,

    Well with a budget of less then $100/mo this will be easy to find.

    Alot of host offer PHP4/5 on there servers i would check with the host to make sure they do before singup. Same go for ROR (Ruby on Rails).

    Im not uptodate with HSphere but you should look into cPanel/WHM for a Control Panel! http://www.cpanel.net/

    Just search the forums for a host for you!
    The only reason his request isn't necessarily so "easy to find" is because most shared hosting companies simply do not give root access to any of the "shared" customers on their servers (with good reason).

    Tony,

    If you feel comfortable without root access, there are plenty of reseller hosting companies that can meet your needs. HostGator (one that you mentioned earlier), would likely be able to accommodate your requirements. HostGator uses cPanel, but if you want to stick with H-Sphere, run a search for providers that offer reseller hosting from an H-Sphere platform (because there are a number of them represented here on WHT).

    If your gut is simply telling you that you need root access, your options are limited to VPS servers and dedicated environments (but don't worry, you aren't going to run into too many providers on WHT trying to charge you $7.00 per GB of bandwidth!).

    Either way, I wish you the very best of luck in your search. Let us know where you end up and how it works out .
    Thanks,

    Brendan Diaz
    Connect: linkedin.com/in/brendandiaz

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan Diaz View Post
    If your gut is simply telling you that you need root access, your options are limited to VPS servers and dedicated environments
    That's just simply not true. The providers that don't offer SSH access choose to do so because they don't want to, not because it's insecure. SSH access can be locked down under any control panel environment, whilst still offering the freedom of most typical, or even advanced functions.


    Simon

  12. #12
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    Since I'll also be hosting run-of-the-mill web customers too, what would be my options if I narrowed down the requirements to this (no root, no Java):
    The OP says he dont need root or java. so yes it should be easy to find a host with that kind of budget.

    most shared hosting companies simply do not give root access to any of the "shared" customers on their servers (with good reason).
    Who siad they would give root access to a shared customer anyways? I would never go with a host that would!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by IHSL View Post
    That's just simply not true. The providers that don't offer SSH access choose to do so because they don't want to, not because it's insecure. SSH access can be locked down under any control panel environment, whilst still offering the freedom of most typical, or even advanced functions.


    Simon
    Thank you Simon, but that's not what I was talking about.

    I'm not saying SSH access can't be locked down under any control panel - I was saying that it is highly unlikely that any shared hosting company would offer a shared hosting customer unabridged root access to their server (providing the user with all rights or permissions to the server).
    Thanks,

    Brendan Diaz
    Connect: linkedin.com/in/brendandiaz

  14. #14
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    @ Simon,

    If you're saying that he can probably do most of what he wants to via SSH access, that could very well be true .
    Thanks,

    Brendan Diaz
    Connect: linkedin.com/in/brendandiaz

  15. #15
    That's just simply not true. The providers that don't offer SSH access choose to do so because they don't want to, not because it's insecure. SSH access can be locked down under any control panel environment, whilst still offering the freedom of most typical, or even advanced functions.
    Hi Simon, though I agree SSH can be locked down, etc - it still does offer an opportunity for problems that does not exist for providers that do not offer it (just a probability game). You are correct, some providers (like us), simply do not want to offer it, as we do not even want to deal with those ports (custom ports or not) to be open and subjected to brute force attempts, etc. Additionally, locked down or not, there is a greater probability of a client causing things like apache loops, etc with ssh access - as - what a client can/will do with ssh access is alot less predictable then say something like php executing on the server and as such is harder to protect. all of these factors, over time, with all else being equal, will result in an environment without ssh access to have a better overall uptime then an environment with ssh access.

    Having said all of this - it is a provider preference - and if the provider (as I know you are) - is a good one, with a proactive approach and keeps a close eye on things, you can certainly minimize these risks.

    We have chosen to simply build all of the ssh features we require and are requested by our clients, right into the control panel. I know this isnt as sexy as command line, but, its a decent compromise. having said this, I hold nothing against those that do offer it - but, there are certainly some inherent risks that are accrued once those ports are open and once clients are working via command line..

    sorry for going off topic
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  16. #16
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    I know this isnt as sexy as command line
    I will challenge that. A command line will never look sexy to the average hosting customer, who is slowly getting closer to the average person model. Just look at the direction DOS/Windows took over the years as they started to address the needs of regular people. That's why control panels were developed.

    We have chosen to simply build all of the ssh features we require and are requested by our clients, right into the control panel.
    Now that is sexy!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ldcdc View Post
    I will challenge that. A command line will never look sexy to the average hosting customer, who is slowly getting closer to the average person model. Just look at the direction DOS/Windows took over the years as they started to address the needs of regular people. That's why control panels were developed.

    Now that is sexy!
    Hi Dan,

    WOW ! thanks for the comments..

    Honestly, its a tough sell, as almost every client that insists on ssh access turns their nose up at ssh functions in the control panel. I am hoping that over time, people will find value in the ease of use of shell functions in the control panel and the allure of command line SSH access will slowly dicipate.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CartikaHosting View Post
    Hi Simon, though I agree SSH can be locked down, etc - it still does offer an opportunity for problems that does not exist for providers that do not offer it (just a probability game).
    Sure, but so does PHP. I'd compare them side by side for the problems they can cause. It pretty much comes down to how secure the provider wants to make it.

    You are correct, some providers (like us), simply do not want to offer it, as we do not even want to deal with those ports (custom ports or not) to be open and subjected to brute force attempts, etc. Additionally, locked down or not, there is a greater probability of a client causing things like apache loops, etc with ssh access - as - what a client can/will do with ssh access is alot less predictable then say something like php executing on the server and as such is harder to protect. all of these factors, over time, with all else being equal, will result in an environment without ssh access to have a better overall uptime then an environment with ssh access.
    It really depends how much time you want to put in to hardening and securing the service. Some providers don't want to offer the service, all power to them, and that is 100% their call and is in no way indicative of their ability to do it. Providers that do offer it, though, should have the same courtesy (not that you have said otherwise). It's as secure as you make it, much like your (and my) php example.


    We have chosen to simply build all of the ssh features we require and are requested by our clients, right into the control panel. I know this isnt as sexy as command line, but, its a decent compromise. having said this, I hold nothing against those that do offer it - but, there are certainly some inherent risks that are accrued once those ports are open and once clients are working via command line..
    Webshell (what you are referring to) is a good option, and webshell5 is definitely a solid alternative (though ftp needs some real work), I agree. The majority of our SSH requests come in the first three days; migration time. Most do revert back to webshell after aliases are settled and webshell5 can be directly accessed from the CP.


    To the topic starter: I apologize for taking your topic slightly off-track. I do hate it though when people post that SSH Access is insecure, just because they (or their provider) doesn't offer it.


    Simon

  19. #19
    Webshell (what you are referring to) is a good option, and webshell5 is definitely a solid alternative (though ftp needs some real work), I agree. The majority of our SSH requests come in the first three days; migration time. Most do revert back to webshell after aliases are settled and webshell5 can be directly accessed from the CP.
    Hi Simon - well, not only webshell, we have also added items right into our control panel (ie chown and a couple of other toys - when used in conjucture with webshell, you have a fairly complete solution

    I do hate it though when people post that SSH Access is insecure, just because they (or their provider) doesn't offer it.
    Just to clarify, this wasnt me though, I also apologize for my part in taking this conversation off topic
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  20. #20
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    Hi Andrew,

    Yeah, I know that wasn't you. It was three other people in the thread


    Simon
    EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network™.

  21. #21
    Thanks a lot for all the input. I think I've finally decided on Steadfast as a provider. The have PHP5, PostgreSQL and unlimited domains, which suit my needs well. They also seem to be very well regarded on these forums and elsewhere.

    I think I'll start on their intro reseller plan and upgrade form there if i need to. They seem to have all the managed services I would ever need.

  22. #22
    Scratch that. They won't even take me

    They won't authorize my credit card and I don't have any other payment options. I guess I have to find someone else.

  23. #23
    Oh yeah, and they don't have toll-free phone support in Canada. That's a bit of a deal breaker for me.

  24. #24
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    Try to contact them, maybe there's a momentary problem with your card? or something that they may help you?

    As example, we have a customer having problem to signup, his order was rejected 3 time, but the reason was because on the signup form on the country field instead of select "USA", he was selecting by mistake "Uganda", I don't know how he did it 3 times, but that was the reason.
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  25. #25
    Yeah, I've got an open ticket with them already. We've tried it twice so far. I confirmed the information with VISA and the only difference was the phone number (work vs home), but SF says they only verify the zip code/postal code, which VISA confirmed was correct. VISA says it's probably a problem with SF's reporting software, but who knows. It could be anything.

    It's not really the credit card issue that bugs me. That happens from time to time. It's just that I don't like bing limited to online support. It's waaaaay too slow. This issue could probably be cleared up in 5 minutes over the phone. I'm just worried about what would happen if I have a real problem later on and calling long distance isn't an option (expensing long distance from my office is troublesome and Skype is blocked).

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