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  1. #1

    * RackShack Does It Again...

    Rack Shack has done it again... two months after I cancelled my server, they still are charging my credit card. I gave them 30 days notice that I was cancelling, but they still want to charge me. Trying to talk to Rack Shack is next to impossible. My only recorse seems to be a chargeback.

    Just wanted to make sure that people know that they get what they pay for: pretty good servers, but lousy customer support and billing practices.

    Peter Gogas
    [email protected]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Houston, Texas
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    It is times like this that technology saves us:

    1. Last customer tickets were 4/15 (regarding a billing issue) and a ticket for 4/19 on a DOS attack that Rackshack had.

    2. Latest emails recieved/sent were back in April regarding that billing issue except for an email today stating that the customer had cancelled "back in May" but not providing a name and date/time, a cancellation tracking number, or anything.

    3. No notes on his account regarding any cancellation by phone.

    If you cancel by phone or email, you would get a confirmation number of that cancellation. Our billing system generates a tracking number when that account is cancelled.

    If the customer had cancelled "in May" as indicated, where is the cancellation number? There was no email sent to teh customer service address for Rackshack. There was no ticked opened for the cancellation either.

    If the customer had cancelled in May, he would have also learned that we generally do not hold customers to the requirement for 30 days advance notice and the server would have been cancelled on the date requested.

    If "talking to Rackshack" is so impossible, how did you manage to get your credit card details updated in April?

    There are legit gripes out there and we work to resolve those as we can. However, this post falls into the "bogus" catagory.

    Robert Marsh

    Just for kicks, I also searched for an email from gogas.org in the [email protected] mail archive as well as my personal email archive. Not there either.
    Last edited by headsurfer; 07-11-2002 at 10:19 PM.
    Robert Marsh
    Head Surfer

  3. #3
    In response:

    1. I did not get a reference number. Maybe you should train your customer service people to give them out if your so called billing system actually supports it. Their tech support has got to be the worst in the industry. If you don't believe me, go ask some questions in the online chatroom (when it is functioning).

    2. Did you look at the bandwidth usage? Maybe you would notice that I honestly believed that my account had been cancelled like I had requested. I don't think you have.

    3. Service has been nothing but crap. When I first had my server setup, it took 3 days to get one that worked. I was happy with service until I cancelled.

    It's companies like this that give webhosting a bad name. Always blame the customer becuase it's the easiest thing to do. Your billing software is never wrong. At least nocster was nice enough to tell me the truth when I equired about being charged for two months at one time.

    The only reason I'm posting this is because newbies always post questions like "is Rack Shack good?" I learned you get what you pay for... and then you keep on paying for it even though you cancel.

  4. #4
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    If you had actually cancelled, you would know who you spoke to, when, and the cancellation number. You would have also found out that 30 days prior notice was not enforced.

    I will say it again ...

    1. No emails about cancellation until today then you allege that you cancelled back in May.

    2. You do not have the cancellation number that we would have provided.

    3. There are no notes in your account regarding cancellation. We monitor our CS personnel very heavily for compliance with this policy.

    4. We archive all emails to Rackshack customer service, headsurfer, and others. You did not email any of those boxes regarding cancellation.

    5. Personally, I archive all of my email of the off chance that you emailed me directly. You did not.

    6. You did not open any tickets regarding a request to cancel.

    If you had cancelled in May, there would have been a record somewhere.

    While we are always disappointed about an account cancellation, we handle them with the sam egrace that we handle a new sale.

    Don't bash our billing personnel for an oversight on your part.

    Robert
    Robert Marsh
    Head Surfer

  5. #5
    I guess you don't understand that I was never given a cancellation number by the person I talked to. It was two months ago, do you honestly expect me to remember the name of someone I talked to once?

    Let's revisit usage. Was the server used during the time period I thought your droids had cancelled my account? No. It would be one thing If I actually used it during this time period, but I did not because all of my domains were transferred off before my account was supposed to be cancelled.

    This little conversation just proves how difficult it is to deal with Rack Shack. Anybody thinkging of using them should be wary. If they screw up, it's the customer's fault.


    Tips to people who dare to use Rack Shack:

    1. Get the name of everybody that you talk to. It seems as though unless you know who you talked to, they call you a liar.

    2. Check your credit card statements after you cancel your service. Most likely they will keep charging your card and say it is your fault.

  6. #6
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    It's not about usage. It;s about wether or not you cancelled your account or requested to cancel your account.

    That's the technology part. We have it all documented. You, on the other hand, failed to document anything. That's why we track account notes, trouble tickets, and archive all email in and out of cs department.

    I understand that you're mad. But you should be mad at yourself for not remembering to email or call in to cancel your account.
    Robert Marsh
    Head Surfer

  7. #7
    There you go again. Your people never make mistakes. That's amazing. Did you patent that? Are you telling us that under oath that you are 100% certain that none of your people made a mistake in not documenting my call?

    I'm not going to keep doing this all night. I can't stand companies that always blame their screwups on the customer. I do know that I'm not going to pay the mistake of one of your droids.

  8. #8
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    Man this sure looks like it would of fit better in to the RS forum then WHT forum.. Just an idea..

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by ddpg
    There you go again. Your people never make mistakes. That's amazing. Did you patent that? Are you telling us that under oath that you are 100% certain that none of your people made a mistake in not documenting my call?
    If I have to decide which side is more reliable in their story, then I perharps will go with Rackshack since they do have a system to handle exactly these things whereas you don't seem to have any. I don't mean to say that you are lying, etc ... but RS has quite remarkable documentation to back them up, how about you? How do you prove your own case without any documentation?

    regards,
    -dave
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  10. #10
    So Robert, are all these people who filed complaints also liars?

    Taken from Better Business Bureau of Metropolitan Houston's website:

    Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unresolved complaint(s).

    When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.

    Closed Complaints
    Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 36 Months: 152
    Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 53


    Complaints Concerned
    Advertising Issues: 5
    Outcome of all complaints -
    Resolved: 4; Company made every reasonable effort to
    Resolve: 1

    Sales Issues: 9
    Outcome of all complaints -
    Resolved: 7; Unresolved: 1; Company made every
    reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

    Delivery Issues: 1
    Outcome of the complaint -
    Resolved: 1

    Repair or Service Issues: 1
    Outcome of the complaint -
    Unresolved: 1

    Product Quality Issues: 7
    Outcome of all complaints -
    Resolved: 4; Unresolved: 2; Company made every
    reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

    Refund or Exchange Issues: 14
    Outcome of all complaints -
    Resolved: 10; Unresolved: 3; Company made every
    reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

    Contract Issues: 14
    Outcome of all complaints -
    Resolved: 11; Unresolved: 2; Company made every
    reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

    Customer Service Issues: 73
    Outcome of all complaints -
    Resolved: 37; Unresolved: 12; Company made every
    reasonable effort to Resolve: 24

    Credit or Billing Issues: 28
    Outcome of all complaints -
    Resolved: 17; Unresolved: 3; Company made every
    reasonable effort to Resolve: 8

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by ddpg
    So Robert, are all these people who filed complaints also liars?
    I am not trying to side with RS (heck, I don't have aynthing with RS). But is involved in filling a BBB complaint? Will BBB try to investigate the matters prior to publishing the complaints on their sites? If not, isn't that easy for any pissed customers to file a complaint?

    Besides, RS has thousands of dedicated clients and ten of thousands of shared hosting clients. Is a company of this size with only 100 or so complaints on BBB really that bad? BTW, Rackshack's BBS record has been discussed here in the past. You may want to check what people have to say regarding this matter.

    I wish you the best luck in your dealing regarding this matter.

    regards,
    -dave
    Fluid Hosting, LLC - HSphere Shared and Reseller hosting - Now with HIGH AVAILABILITY
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  12. #12
    I cancelled one of my servers, they did not continue to bill me for it.

    And that BBB proves nothing more than RS RESOLVED alot of complaints, which means if there is a problem they will fix it.
    L. James Prevo - President/Owner
    Prevo Network, LLC - http://www.prevo.net
    Est. 1999 - Month to Month Billing!!

  13. #13
    It's not the number of complaints filed that bothers me, it's the number of unresolved complaints. The BBB does a pretty good job of filtering out groundless claims, though I have to admit that they don't catch all of them. In the long run, only complaints that have merit are including in a company file.

    In business, any complaint is one complaint too many. But I don't think Rack Shack cares.

  14. #14
    ddpg, considering the number of customers that RS had, those BBB numbers look pretty damn good. Lets lowball the # of EV1 customers at 10,000.

    Thats an un-resolved complaint percentage of 0.24%. Less that a quarter of a percent of RS customers has a complaint that wasn't resolved.

    I don't know, that looks good to me. It's unfourtunate that you happen to fall into an extreme minority of the quarter of a percent of RS customers tht has an ubresolvable problem.

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Vortech
    Man this sure looks like it would of fit better in to the RS forum then WHT forum.. Just an idea..
    I was just thinking that same thing.
    Greg Landis | Founder Jaguarpc - Keeping websites happy since 1998
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  16. #16
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    We try to resolve every complaint we get. 152 BBB complaints for over 200,000 dialup users (including normal churn we have had over 250,000 total dialup accounts over 3.5 years), plus about 10,000 virtual accounts, plus about 7,000 dedicated servers.

    152 is nothing for an ISP. The 152 is total. The BBB forwards and logs all complaints.

    Remember, the BBB is a for profit organization, not a non-profit consumer service. They make their money off of memberships and we would never be a member.

    The BBB assumes that all consumer complaints are legit complaints and that every one should be resolved in the clients favor.

    Off hand, it looks like, even in the BBB eyes, we either resolved or "made every attempt" to resolve 121 out of those complaints. We answered all of teh complaints but stick to our guns where the documentation that we have (tech notes, email archives, trouble tickets, etc) all point to the fact that we are in the right.

    With any complaint, when we are clearly at fault, we make every attempt to resolve the issue in the customer's favor. But, we will not be scammed or taken advantage either.

    The facts speak for themselves in this case.

    We don;t want to lose anyone, but will absolutely will not engane in a practice of fraudulant billing. If we did, we risk our ability to process credit cards and that risks the nearly $4 million we collect every month from credit cards.

    Take a further look at the resolved/unresolved ratio for billing/refund/credit/billing disputes. In these areas, we resolved the issue in the customer's favor 36 times, but held our ground in 6 instances. How is that always saying it is the customer's fault?
    Robert Marsh
    Head Surfer

  17. #17
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    Jan 2002
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    574
    I'm quite surprised RS even caters to the BBB.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by clockwork
    I'm quite surprised RS even caters to the BBB.
    I am actually suprise to see HeadSurfers digs out all the customer record himself and come here to answer all issues. I thought with a company the size of RS/EV1, they should have some other people that will do these kind of things
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  19. #19
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    Yes, I applaud the headsurfer for taking his time with this. Most people would find some tech to go do it for him.

  20. #20
    I know there are some bad records with Rackshack (which has stopped me to go with them) but if you yourself do not have a copy of the cancellation email you have sent and a copy of the reply you have received then this is your problem.

    You need to document your billing issues otherwise its definitly your problem.

    Mac

  21. #21
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    Apr 2001
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    2,588
    Robert, FYI, When we cancelled 2 of our RS servers we were not given cancellation numbers. I had to drill this out of your staff on IRC as we had already wasted enough time jumping around on the phone. Just thought you should know. I would have emailed you directly, but you never seem to get those messages at all.

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Haze
    Robert, FYI, When we cancelled 2 of our RS servers we were not given cancellation numbers. I had to drill this out of your staff on IRC as we had already wasted enough time jumping around on the phone. Just thought you should know. I would have emailed you directly, but you never seem to get those messages at all.

    ouch

  23. #23
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    All I have to say is: LOL, ROFL, LMAO Episode 3756... and who says the best soaps don't play in Texas

  24. #24
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    I don't know why Robert considers this complaint as bogus. Customers often forget customer service rep's names, and CSR's often don't log phone calls or give confirmation numbers like they are supposed to, and emails get lost or deleted by mistake. This happens to me all the time when dealing with businesses.

  25. #25
    Deleteing business letters? In a serious business?

    We backup all emails every week even print important emails.

    Mac

  26. #26
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    How funky is that - the ceo comes on with receords for the companies defence

  27. #27
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    I don't know anything regarding the current case, but I would like to tell Robert: you're right and wrong about one thing.

    I, for instance, had a server with RS and when I decided to cancel it and transfer my clients, I sent a fax where I mentionned that I would like to discontinue business with RS at a the anniversary date (something like 15 days later) but my server was actually shut down and my account deleted the next 2 days...thats sure came as a shock for my clients.

    So, I guess a positive comment would be that indeed you do not enforce the 30 days rule.

    No hard feelings, though. The story ended OK as no client left us and we saved a month payment
    http://www.voilaweb.com - the Social Internet Toolbox.

  28. #28
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    Jag,

    Are you still under the illusion that these aren't the rackshack forums?

    -b

  29. #29
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    Originally posted by HRBrendan
    Jag,

    Are you still under the illusion that these aren't the rackshack forums?

    -b
    Doesn't EVERYONE knows that?

  30. #30
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    271
    Originally posted by headsurfer
    We try to resolve every complaint we get. 152 BBB complaints for over 200,000 dialup users (including normal churn we have had over 250,000 total dialup accounts over 3.5 years), plus about 10,000 virtual accounts, plus about 7,000 dedicated servers.

    152 is nothing for an ISP. The 152 is total. The BBB forwards and logs all complaints.

    152 is nothing...no way...if I'm one of these 152. So please don't get this attitude that all big businesses have. You have to care for each of your thousands of customers just like if you had one!

    About the Rackshack system about tracking things going on...like tickets, cancelation requests...etc , can't really be considered like an authority for resolving issues, as the system itself makes part of your business. If the tracking system was runned by a third non-profit organization (impossible, but in theory yes) then I could consider reliable all your tracking logs.

    I'm not saying that you're not reliable. I'm just saying that your documents have not more value from peoples' complaints. Of course you do fine to base your actions on your documents. This doesn't mean in all cases that the others have to consider your documents as the pure truth.

    I believe it's a matter of principle resolving these issues and not matter of logs of a ticket system.

    Just my opinion.
    Last edited by MikeMc; 07-12-2002 at 08:17 AM.

  31. #31
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    We've had our fair share of screwups. Maybe we've even had an extra share of two due to how fast we we vaulted to the top in both the discount dedicated market and as the country's largest privately help ISP.

    When this complaint came up on WHT, just as I do with complaints I recieve personally, I immediately email an information request to our top Rackshack personnel asking why we had overcharged this customer. As I do with most every complaint ( there are a few exceptions), I assume that the customer is right.

    In this instance, every piece of information we can find says that this customer did not actually ask us to cancel as he has said that he did. If we could find just one trace of proof that this customer was in the right, Mario (our CSR Manager) would have gladly provided a prompt refund.

    We are always working to better log all communication. That's one reason that we'll soon be moving from accepting email support requests, to only handling tickets as we're working to improve the ticketing system. We're also changing our chat system from a "room based" system to a one on one,private where the system asks for your RS number before you are assigned to a rep and then that chat log becomes a part of your notes on your account. At that point, we'll stop putting a tech in the IRC based public room unless we are discussing a network issue.

    While not a public as I used to be, I am personally involved (albeit behind the scenes) when I become aware of any complaint. For those of you that are RS customers, you should notice a list of emails in your welcome letter. One of those is my personal email address.
    Robert Marsh
    Head Surfer

  32. #32
    Mr. Marsh,

    Keep up the good work.

    I know at times I may have seemed to be a pain as well, but RS worked through my issues.

    You are right, being a new company, you are going to have "growing pains". At least you are going in the right direction. I have been pretty much satisfied with the service I have received from you.

    Cheers,
    L. James Prevo - President/Owner
    Prevo Network, LLC - http://www.prevo.net
    Est. 1999 - Month to Month Billing!!

  33. #33
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    I agree with you about proof, Robert. Unless that customer has his email saved, your proof (documentation) outweighs his, plain and simple.

  34. #34
    Originally posted by chrisb
    I agree with you about proof, Robert. Unless that customer has his email saved, your proof (documentation) outweighs his, plain and simple.
    Who can you say that? Robert's "proof" is that there is no proof, or more accurately that he CLAIMS there is no proof. I'm not siding with one or the other on this, but...

    And as for ddpg: if you feel you've been charged incorrectly, have your credit card company do a chargeback. They have that system in place to protect you, the cardholder.
    I thank my Lord for all His wonderful blessings.

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by hostpath.com


    Who can you say that? Robert's "proof" is that there is no proof, or more accurately that he CLAIMS there is no proof. I'm not siding with one or the other on this, but...
    Maybe you're right. Perhaps, what I should of said is that if the guy has no proof, then he's probably out of luck. However, it might be a good PR move to just refund him. OTOH, if Robert did that with everyone that had no proof, he may go out of business.

  36. #36
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    I have had up to 9 servers with RS at any given time. Right now I have 7. I have canceled servers before and ALWAYS gotten a cancelation number (confirmation #). I know exactly who I talked to and it is written in the file about that server. HeadSurfer is right they don't enforce the 30 days cancelation policy, because I canceled my server the day before its renewal date. As for someone saying the Chat room is down regularly, I can honestly say that it is up 99.9% of the time, because I am in there alot. Not because I need help, but because we try to help out. I have found the RS Techs, Customer Service and Sales to be VERY helpful and courtous. I have had the pleasure to have a couple of conversations (1 on 1) with HeadSurfer and he is easy to work with.
    My suggestion to you, would be to talk to them "reasonablely" and I am sure you can work something out.
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  37. #37
    Originally posted by chrisb
    Maybe you're right. Perhaps, what I should of said is that if the guy has no proof, then he's probably out of luck.
    I think that's much more accurate. Hey, I've had problem customers before -- and I've screwed up servicing good customers before.
    I thank my Lord for all His wonderful blessings.

  38. #38
    I cancelled a server at RS. It was cancelled and I never got billed again, but I do have to say that I never received an email with a cancellation number as I know I should. So I went to IRC and chatted with a CSR to find out where my cancellation number was and to make sure it was cancelled. She confirmed that my server was cancelled, but when I asked for a cancellation number, she told me that my chat logs would serve as my confirmation. This thread is making me nervous now. Maybe I should go back and demand a number now.

    My point is that RS may have a system for giving cancellation numbers, but it is obviously flawed. I had not problems with RS while I was there, but I do take issue with headsurfers assertion that if you had cancelled you would have a cancellation number. I also don't remember the CSR's name that told me that, but I have the chat logs to find out. But I doubt that if we got in a dispute that my easily modifiable, plain text logs would get me anywhere.
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  39. #39
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    give rackshack some slack....
    they own!!!
    I have servers at: NetDepot/GNAX (A), SoftLayer (A), LiquidWeb (B+), DedicatedNow (B+), Nectartech (B) and more!

  40. #40
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    Originally posted by HRBrendan
    Jag,

    Are you still under the illusion that these aren't the rackshack forums?

    -b
    Ya, wishful thinking I guess.
    Greg Landis | Founder Jaguarpc - Keeping websites happy since 1998
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