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  1. #1
    Buyer Beware!

    I tried to order a server from these guys. I entered all of my credit card information into their website. After that I received an email from them stating they wanted me to send my credit card information, along with a copy of my drivers license, in PLAIN TEXT to their email account!! I don't think I need to tell you how bad of an idea this is, not to mention in violation of the credit card company's security best practices.

    So, if you don't mind risking identity theft or dealing with people who have no idea what a privacy policy is, go ahead and order a server...

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Overland Park, KS
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    14
    Buyer Beware:

    They charge you the standard 30 days up front (which is normal), but they also tag on additional days (up to around 10 days) to coincide with their "billing dates". They also require you to provide 30 day written notice (and faxed to them) of any cancellations.

    In addition to this, if you place an order with them... they will send you a document that you have to sign, and put a copy of of your CC and DL and fax back to them.

    Apparently in the age of 2007, where electronic signatures are backed by Federal Law, they still require you to follow 1980's payment methods and use of something called a "FAX" machine.

    One of two things is going on. Either they have a LOT of complaints against the additional BILLING they tack on and their 30 days notice (and subsequent additional billing) that they need hard evidence to refute chargebacks against them... OR they are trying to get by with a lower CC discount by selling it to you "in person".

    Ironically, they require you to do this when paying via Paypal as well.

    I requested a refund to my order, because of the hassle. Figure I'd save you all the pain or at least know what your getting into.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    520
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottTech View Post
    Buyer Beware:

    They charge you the standard 30 days up front (which is normal), but they also tag on additional days (up to around 10 days) to coincide with their "billing dates". They also require you to provide 30 day written notice (and faxed to them) of any cancellations.

    In addition to this, if you place an order with them... they will send you a document that you have to sign, and put a copy of of your CC and DL and fax back to them.

    Apparently in the age of 2007, where electronic signatures are backed by Federal Law, they still require you to follow 1980's payment methods and use of something called a "FAX" machine.

    One of two things is going on. Either they have a LOT of complaints against the additional BILLING they tack on and their 30 days notice (and subsequent additional billing) that they need hard evidence to refute chargebacks against them... OR they are trying to get by with a lower CC discount by selling it to you "in person".

    Ironically, they require you to do this when paying via Paypal as well.

    I requested a refund to my order, because of the hassle. Figure I'd save you all the pain or at least know what your getting into.
    Thanks for the heads up, i dont know whats up with the companies asking for details like CC and DL copies even when you pay via verified paypal address. Very annoying and pointless. However, i understand the reason if you are paying via CC only.

    I had to cancel one of the servers with other comapny recently due to similar reasons. I m gonna add DedicatedNow into my blacklist as well
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    600
    Quote Originally Posted by HE/LW-Sam View Post
    Thanks for the heads up, i dont know whats up with the companies asking for details like CC and DL copies even when you pay via verified paypal address. Very annoying and pointless. However, i understand the reason if you are paying via CC only.

    I had to cancel one of the servers with other comapny recently due to similar reasons. I m gonna add DedicatedNow into my blacklist as well
    Faxing of info is normal. Theplanet, etc. It cuts down on fraud. If you're legit, why worry? These anti-fraud practices decrease the pricing they offer to legit customers.
    30 day cancellation notice is normal too. I had to do that with Bell Canada, and they're pretty major ISP here in Canada.
    Dating Revolution Method - Book on how to meet and attract women
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    520
    Quote Originally Posted by ewhost View Post
    Faxing of info is normal. Theplanet, etc. It cuts down on fraud. If you're legit, why worry? These anti-fraud practices decrease the pricing they offer to legit customers.
    30 day cancellation notice is normal too. I had to do that with Bell Canada, and they're pretty major ISP here in Canada.
    I have used Bell Canada too, they never asked for my info. Its just personal preference and point of view. I m more comfortable with giving out cc details to 2co.

    I agree with necessity to give out in case of paying via cc, but when paying with a verified paypal id under ur name and email id, i dont see it much big of a deal.

    Sorry mods, it was just an opinion, please dont take it as a bashing for dedicatednow. They are good providers based on their reviews on WHT
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    In a house
    Posts
    949
    I'm responding to a few questions regarding payment verification which we require upon signup.

    DedicatedNOW will require some verification of payment on all new customer orders. Though everyone likes to believe that digital signatures, and online ordering is safe, the fact is, it's not. In today’s market the rate of fraudulent signups is tremendous, and regardless of what laws exist, the decision of verification relies solely on CC companies. They in fact require signatures and ID's to match in order to verify a payment. Though everyone likes to believe it's only a hassle to them, it's the only true method of protection for both clients and companies.
    We do this in order to both protect ourselves from fraud as well as our clients. We have a very low rate of chargeback, and even fewer fraudulent orders processed. With technology the way it exists today, it's very simple to gain CC #'s and proxy through a local server close to the billing address to avoid detection from IP locality. Verified Paypal accounts serve no good when people fall victim to phishing, and by taking our steps that we do, we can avoid somebody becoming a victim through us ultimately which causes higher consumer prices to pay for fraud activity. We don't process payment until documents are received and our requirements are becoming more of the norm in this business than nothing.

    If anyone would like to speak further about this matter, please feel free to contact me directly, otherwise please remain within the guidelines of this forum posting.

    Thank you,
    Last edited by PhMatt; 04-12-2007 at 10:24 AM. Reason: clarification
    Matthew McCormick
    Director of Customer Care
    www.caro.net
    mmccormick@carohosting.com
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
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    14
    I am unsure why stating the obvious is against board policy that my original post was removed. I was stating pure facts, no opinions.

    That said, I have had a merchant account for nearly 10 years. I know that having such documentation is solid proof when refuting charge backs. PhMatt is correct in that the burden of proof is put on the business as well.

    That said, one must weigh the consequences of being a "pain" to the good customer. Had you not required a faxed in cancelation policy (I am find w/ 30 days, just not by fax/signed) I might have when through your hoops. However... when the hoops are coming at you from every direction, you begin to wonder... what other hoops am I going to have to jump through to get support? To get my server back online? Am I going to wait on hold for ever?
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Kalamazoo
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottTech View Post
    I am unsure why stating the obvious is against board policy that my original post was removed. I was stating pure facts, no opinions.
    Let's leave those concerns out of an advertising thread.

    Posts moved to the discussion forum.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,634
    Adding DedicatedNow to your blacklist is pointless because if you was to read the TOS / AUP you would know that they have a 30 day cancelation notice. --- Common Practice

    Asking for your passports or license to VERIFY is you that is paying. --- Common Practice

    If you find a company (a well known of course) that doesn't require you to send info in let us know. I'll make sure to put in a few orders there myself
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Atlanta, Jawja
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    3,066
    Fraud is not limited to just credit card, guys. I've seen more cases of PayPal fraud with my tenure at DedicatedNOW than I had ever seen before prior to me working there.

    If your CC info can be compromised, so can your PayPal account. Here's another catch. We accept these forms via email and/or fax. If someone wants to password protect a ZIP file with their scans and send the password to a different email, that's absolutely okay. We have the means to go that route. We understand that it can be an inconvenience when dealing with the payment authorization paperwork, so we will accomodate as much as we can to help ensure privacy. And we only require this paperwork on your initial order. Once you're established as a customer, then you're good to go.

    I would happily do this for any provider that I do business with (I use three providers myself), if they asked for it. It protects both the customer (me) and the company (the provider).
    Douglas Hazard - Certifiable Sports Junkie and Sports Community Enthusiast

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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    520
    Reliable 3rd party is not a bad alternative. Using a company like 2co who uses verified by visa technology even better.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by HE/LW-Sam View Post
    Reliable 3rd party is not a bad alternative. Using a company like 2co who uses verified by visa technology even better.
    2co wouldn't work in our case I am sorry to say. But I believe to also use verified by visa the actual card holder has to have signed up for it. I could be wrong.
    Jason Silverglate jason [.at.] fortressitx.com
    DedicatedNOW Managed Dedicated Servers / | 1-973-572-1070 support ext for 24/7 LIVE SUPPORT
    Celebrating 12 years in business! Privately Owned Datacenter metro NYC Dark Fiber Ring and more!
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    539
    I'm a bit surprised that someone is complaining about asking for proof and official signature. This is what the credit card companies insist to get as information. With so much fraud going on around I don't thing there is really room for complaints. Just putting your concern at ease, DN is a more the legit company, that has been around for a long time. They treat their clients more like friends then just clients, and they definitely provide great service, so you donít have to worry. The reality is, hosting companies need to protect themselves and sometimes it involves an annoying process which is necessary.
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    520
    Quote Originally Posted by jayglate View Post
    2co wouldn't work in our case I am sorry to say. But I believe to also use verified by visa the actual card holder has to have signed up for it. I could be wrong.
    Yup, so its also a reliable way to know that its the actual card holder.

    However i understand, in some circumstances it can be an evil necessity.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by HE/LW-Sam View Post
    Yup, so its also a reliable way to know that its the actual card holder.

    I don't think there is any billing software out that supports it, i.e ubersmith, modernbill, or WHMAP.

    I believe ALOT of hosts would be interested in that if the billing software we use supported it.
    Jason Silverglate jason [.at.] fortressitx.com
    DedicatedNOW Managed Dedicated Servers / | 1-973-572-1070 support ext for 24/7 LIVE SUPPORT
    Celebrating 12 years in business! Privately Owned Datacenter metro NYC Dark Fiber Ring and more!
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayglate View Post
    I don't think there is any billing software out that supports it, i.e ubersmith, modernbill, or WHMAP.

    I believe ALOT of hosts would be interested in that if the billing software we use supported it.
    I guess it works only when the merchant account provider work with the issuing bank. Because its the banking website where you have to provide the visa verification

    Pretty reliable and also secure. I guess its not related to billing softwares. But yeah it would be nice if paypal could implement it as well
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
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    I love the fact I got an infraction for stating facts. ha! Got to love the power of the almighty dollar!

    Anyhow...

    Companies can do what they want. But, all I have to say is this. If your methods are so wonderful and so "industry standard", then please... in place of your online order form. Just put the PDF document and say... download this and fax it in with copies of your CC and DL and we will process your order in the next few days.

    That would be FANTASTIC. At least I would know, and everyone else... what to expect.
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    520
    Tried to find in http://www.dedicatednow.com/terms.php

    But couldnt find where they have mentioned to ask for the CC or DL details?

    Please correct me if i m wrong?
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
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    They obviously like defending their practice, and customers who don't know any better fall into their trap.

    Companies like 1and1 and Softlayer do phone call verification. 1and1 provides an automated system, while Softlayer provides a little personal touch for their calls to verify things.

    I don't have an issue with companies watching their bottom line, I do have an issue with misleading or otherwise attempts to provide customer dis-service. They where quick to give me infractions and have my posts moved out of their ad post.

    They could have simply said... "Yes, that is our policy, and we find it to be in order with other established companies" and left it alone. But no, they had to fire up everyone in an attempt to cover.
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  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottTech View Post
    They obviously like defending their practice, and customers who don't know any better fall into their trap.

    Companies like 1and1 and Softlayer do phone call verification. 1and1 provides an automated system, while Softlayer provides a little personal touch for their calls to verify things.

    I don't have an issue with companies watching their bottom line, I do have an issue with misleading or otherwise attempts to provide customer dis-service. They where quick to give me infractions and have my posts moved out of their ad post.

    They could have simply said... "Yes, that is our policy, and we find it to be in order with other established companies" and left it alone. But no, they had to fire up everyone in an attempt to cover.
    I would imagine the only reason they removed your post is because is their advertising thread and not yours to make an opinion ...if so it could be done here like any other post. You could have simply left their thread alone and put it here for "General Discussions".

    I though we were discussing about DedicatedNow not other companies...

    Sorry but what trap are you talking about?
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  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
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    I had no problems with their order process previously.

    I don't mind a little additional hassle if it's going to keep me protected (and them too)
    Linux junkie | steward.io
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  22. #22
    Join Date
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottTech View Post
    I love the fact I got an infraction for stating facts. ha! Got to love the power of the almighty dollar!

    Anyhow...

    Companies can do what they want. But, all I have to say is this. If your methods are so wonderful and so "industry standard", then please... in place of your online order form. Just put the PDF document and say... download this and fax it in with copies of your CC and DL and we will process your order in the next few days.

    That would be FANTASTIC. At least I would know, and everyone else... what to expect.
    If you had read the rules that you agreed to when you signed up, you would have seen that THREAD TRASHING is not acceptable.

    You may not intentionally "trash" or "troll" in another user's advertisement thread.
    The 'Advertising Forums' are not a place for you to criticize or pass comment on another user's advertisement. Comments such as "You could get a better deal at.....", or "Your price is way too high for that...", or "That design stinks....", etc. will be removed and your account may be suspended.
    No one to blame for the "infraction" but yourself.
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  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Overland Park, KS
    Posts
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    *

    Do you work for DedicatedNow? Your in the same area.

    Anyhow... yes I am discussing DedicatedNow... I was making a comparison between the practices of DedicatedNow in comparison to other practices.

    The "trap" is the bait-in-switch technique, although by definition may not be fully applicable here.

    User comes to store to purchase advertised item, only to find out those are sold out, but provide a higher cost solution instead of. When in fact, the "bait" item never existed.

    The trap in this particular case is you provide a online ordering system. You go out of your way to say, orders by a certain time will be fulfilled during this time window. You educate your users that you don't offer immediate activation, and you strongly promote reading terms and conditions, and other policies... but in none of your verbage do you specify that you will need to complete and fax in anything, or that an order could be delayed until such information is received.

    The trap is... assuming a future customer agrees to the entire web of complexity... you toss in ANOTHER "gotcha". The user, feeling like they have already committed to the ordering process, or feeling that this is "okay" practice, will drive to Kinko's, make copies of everything and then fax them over (assuming they don't have a copier/scanner/fax at their immediate disposal).

    Hopefully that answers your question.
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  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottTech View Post
    The "trap" is the bait-in-switch technique, although by definition may not be fully applicable here.

    User comes to store to purchase advertised item, only to find out those are sold out, but provide a higher cost solution instead of. When in fact, the "bait" item never existed.

    The trap in this particular case is you provide a online ordering system. You go out of your way to say, orders by a certain time will be fulfilled during this time window. You educate your users that you don't offer immediate activation, and you strongly promote reading terms and conditions, and other policies... but in none of your verbage do you specify that you will need to complete and fax in anything, or that an order could be delayed until such information is received.

    The trap is... assuming a future customer agrees to the entire web of complexity... you toss in ANOTHER "gotcha". The user, feeling like they have already committed to the ordering process, or feeling that this is "okay" practice, will drive to Kinko's, make copies of everything and then fax them over (assuming they don't have a copier/scanner/fax at their immediate disposal).

    Hopefully that answers your question.
    This isn't a trap.... You have a choice to do business with this company. You are not trapped in to anything. You can choose to do what is requested by the host, or you choose not to.

    DN has made a choice that this is the way they want to verify their customers and protect themselves from fraud. My hats off to them... I wish more businesses would go the extra mile to make sure they are protecting their business, their customers and the tons of folks whose stolen credit cards are being used to buy services they didnt know about.

    If you don't like this, then simply put, don't do business with them.

    Best of luck with your future provider!

    </thread>

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