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  1. #1
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    * GoDaddy suspends seclists.org domain!

    Fyodor Vaskovich, creator of popular NMAP scanner software awoke on Wednesday to his domain being down.

    The domain in question - seclists.org - is a popular mailing list archive site that hosts over 250,000 pages of content. GoDaddy received demands from MySpace to remove the content due to several of the pages containing user account details for MySpace. GoDaddy promptly complied - and removed access to the domain.

    This isn't the first time GoDaddy has disabled a domain based on content -- just last year we were all around when they shut down an entire dc's DNS based on a few abuse complaints.

    Phew.

    Links regarding the issue:

    http://news.com.com/2100-1025-6153607.html?tag=tb
    http://seclists.org/nmap-hackers/2007/0000.html
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the tip, maybe it's time to move some of the domains away from godaddy.
    -Mr Bister

  3. #3
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    I recommend all my clients move their important domain registrations away from GoDaddy...

    I also hate MySpace with a passion. I think they are as much to blame in this case as well.

    (That said, I do have domains registered with GoDaddy, and I do have a MySpace account) The domains are just for some porn names I picked up for some reason... and the MySpace account I never read or update :p

  4. #4
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    It's funny, you just move away from GoDaddy for no reason. You think Godaddy is the only registrar that does this? If seclists.org violated Godaddy's terms, it's their own fault. Not Godaddy or Myspace. Seclists.org shouldn't have user account details.

  5. #5
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    Yeah, what a shame, a registar with ethics!

    Users need to take responsibility for what they're hosting, rather than trying to play the ignorance card.

  6. #6
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    How about this.

    If someone posted for example myspace usernames and password on this forum.

    Should this site be instantly suspened? Without giving the owner of the site a chance to remove the offending material.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by doc_flabby
    How about this.

    If someone posted for example myspace usernames and password on this forum.

    Should this site be instantly suspened? Without giving the owner of the site a chance to remove the offending material.
    Why shouldn't they. It's the responsbility of the domain owner, not the registrar. Why would someone post "examples." Kinda ridiculous. They should be removed right away from the domain, I bet seclists.org had them long time. Lastly, you forget about the victims, people who account info is freely on the Internet with out their permission. GoDaddy has a responsbility to protect them, not the individual who can't administrate their site.

  8. #8
    For those reading this who are about to hit "Submit Reply", here are some threads
    on this subject being discussed to possibly give you some more food for thought:

    http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=569379

    http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=578522

    Awareness and responsibility is a two-way street. Be aware, be responsible.

    And of course, don't use that service provider if you don't agree to their terms.

  9. #9
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    The registrar should stay away from this. Myspace should have contacted the sites host nad contact the owner of the site to have the contents removed.
    I wonder how much they paid GoDaddy. Some free advertising space?

    All one has to do now is hack a site whose domain is registered at Godaddy, upload some "copyrighted text", contact GoDaddy and have the said domain shut down.

    Guess its time to finally move away the rest of my domains from GoDaddy for good. I started last time it was reported they did this but kinda slacked on it.


    + NOW WE'RE MAKING RECORDS, NOW WE'RE MAKING TAPES

  10. #10
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    This is getting ridiculous, putting all the blame on GoDaddy. Myspace doesn't have to give any notice to seclists.org, it would be nice, but not required. Myspace protected their accounts by contacting GoDaddy first, they have every right to do so.

    If a site is hacked, then it's not the domain owners fault.

    Moving your domain away from GoDaddy? Crazy assumption no one can truelly have the full story on, their is three different sides, in which GoDaddy is in the middle on.

    GoDaddy shut down the site based on terms and conditions being broken, Myspace acted in privacy protection. It's totally seclists.org fault for not better monitoring and maintaining their site. Myspace is not obligated to contact them before they contacted Godaddy, even if it's nice to do.

  11. #11
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    You buy a car from a car dealer. You get financing for the car. You go out and break some traffic laws or do a lawn job. Somone sees a license plate holder with the car dealers name and contacts them and give out your plate number. The dealers then reposeses your car untill you explain yourself.


    + NOW WE'RE MAKING RECORDS, NOW WE'RE MAKING TAPES

  12. #12
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    Boo Godaddy, boo!

    Since when is a registrar the internet / morality police? Godaddy acted on the Myspace request, they have to bear the blame of shutting down a site without a court order.

    Now to be fair there is a clause in the GoDaddy ToS which refers to "morally
    objectionable activities", I mean seriously

    It was nice of GoDaddy to wait a full minute after their one and only phone call to suspend the domain.

    I dont know if Fyodor read the GoDaddy ToS carefully before signing up. I know I'll be re-reading ENom's ToS to see if I missed anything as ludicrous as the morality clause in GoDaddy's.

    Read the linked articles in the OP if you have not already done so. Myspace is not to blame for taking down seclists, they were acting in their own best interests (the breach that caused the passwords to be harvested and Myspace's subsequent actions are beyond the scope of this comment ), GoDaddy is the party that caved and as Fyodor put it (paraphrasing) bent over, because they were asked.

    I now wait patiently for the spoof GoDaddy Bowl ad to appear on youtube
    Damian | i n f i n i x | Are you a hosting refugee?

  13. #13
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    Feb 2003
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    GoDaddy abuse

    This seems to be a routine thing for GoDaddy to do.

    If they disagree with your content, or they think you violated their ToS, you are toast. Simple as that.

    If the domain you registered is important, or even critical, be aware that having it suspended can also take down the nameservers associated with that same domain. ie: ns1.mydomain.com / ns2.mydomain.com, etc.... This means that by taking the domain out of service, they could also cause your other sites to go down as well assuming they use the nameservers on the domain(s) in question.

    You can lose business when email, helpdesk, and other services are taken offline. It's even worse because even if the domain is restored, it won't come back right away. DNS by it's very nature must propagate, and this can take a considerable amount of time.

    In fact, GoDaddy can suspend your domains without them even being involved with any content, spam, abuse, or other "violations" in the first place. We had the same unfortunate thing occur to us last year. GoDaddy suspended our main domain, 'nectartech.com' because one of our COLOCATION customers happed to have a machine which was found to be hosting a phishing site. This would be like GoDaddy suspending rackspace.net because one of their colocation customers had a machine in their datacenter sending spam.

    It CAN happen, and did happen. Want proof? Read these threads:
    http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=477562
    http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=478525

    The bottom line is that if you are even thinking of running a real hosting business, your choice of which domain registrar you select is very important. Do you really want your registrar playing the role of the "net police" ?

    Good luck.

  14. #14
    I definetly agree with nectar.
    Problems originating from a domain name should not involve the registrar unless it's under extreme circumstances.

  15. #15
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    May 2006
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    wow I cant believe so many people takes up for godaddy, but you shouldn't get a domain from them unless you read their terms or heard the other 1000s of times this has happened.
    I think the registrar doesn't need to police site content just what they are required by law, most registrars are like this. Godaddy should at least gave a warning to fyodor. But take up for godaddy all you want, they have done this 100s of times for less, plus the majority of people on the entire Internet thinks it is ridiculous.

  16. #16
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    San Jose, California
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    410

    ToS/AUP

    Quote Originally Posted by coax
    I definetly agree with nectar.
    Problems originating from a domain name should not involve the registrar unless it's under extreme circumstances.
    Well, even so, it all comes down to this: The ToS you agree to when using their service.

    Like hosts, domain registrars reserve the right to terminate service for ANY REASON they see fit. This is not about being right or wrong- but whether or not you violated the companies Terms of Service, Acceptable Use Policy, or whatever you want to call it.

    GoDaddy is obviously being very strict in these types of abuse cases because they want to make the net a "better place" and all that kind of jazz. Even so, they should take particular care before deleting a domain and carefully make every effort possible to allow the operator of the site to fix the problem, or move on before taking action.

    Although I do not personally agree with the way GD handles these cases, we all have the right as customers to vote with your dollars and take your business elsewhere if you do not agree with the way any company conducts their operations. This is exactly what we did when we got stung by GD last year.

  17. #17
    Certainly a registrar to avoid, I thought they only provided bad hosting from all the reviews I read on WHT but deleting/taking over customer domains is absolutely absurd.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Honolulu, Hawaii
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    * MySpace vs GoDaddy

    Thought this was pretty funny and would be of intrest to you guys.

    Here's a clip:

    "Instead of simply writing me ... asking to have the password list removed, MySpace decided to contact (only) GoDaddy and try to have the whole site of 250,000 pages removed because they don't like one of them," he wrote Thursday on his Web site. "And GoDaddy cowardly and lazily decided to simply shut down the site rather than actually investigating or giving me a chance to contest or comply with the complaint. Needless to say, I'm in the market for a new registrar."
    <<< Please see Forum Guidelines for signature setup. >>>

  19. #19
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    It may or may not be against ToS, but surely some discussion of it wouldn't be out of order for Godaddy - rather than just arbitarily suspending the domain without asking questions? Censorship is a big issue at the moment. Not only that but if it was against Godaddy's ToS why have they now restored the domain?

    It's one of two things, either way godaddy don't have the resources to, nor should they be attempting to police the internet.

    Ignoring everything else, maybe the real issue here is that the people that run MySpace don't have much of a clue how the world works. The lists are out there, hell they're on digg now due to this incident, maybe the best idea would be for MySpace to educate their user's rather than just randomly going after sites?

    Seems like a huge PR f**kup on the part of Godaddy to me, this is more of a story every day it seems - and there's people sharing their own experiences of Godaddy doing similar things all over.

    Plus, talk about the wrong kind of people to be annoying? Look at what happened when EveryDNS started removing domains they didn't like.
    Last edited by streaky; 01-27-2007 at 07:23 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by streaky
    It may or may not be against ToS, but surely some discussion of it wouldn't be out of order for Godaddy - rather than just arbitarily suspending the domain without asking questions? Censorship is a big issue at the moment. Not only that but if it was against Godaddy's ToS why have they now restored the domain?.
    I couldn't agree more.

    This is a disturbing trend. It seems that more and more companies are trying to censor content online by threatening lawsuits, claiming infringement, abuse every day. The US government started putting restrictions on adult providers and site operators, and this just caused the offshore and Canadian hosts to reap the benefits. If you shut someone off, they just take their business elsewhere where they are wanted. Money speaks volumes here.

    Our duty as operators of online services is NOT to police the internet, but make sure that only the most egregious activities are stopped; ie: spam, kiddie porn, hacking, etc... No company is not going to intimidate us into taking one of our customers offline unless they have a court order in hand. As a host, we have filed numerous motions to quash subpoenas presented to us if we feel they violate our customers privacy. A court actually has to order us to comply, otherwise we do not. Very simple. Too many service providers are intimidated by large corporations and attorney's, and this is a problem. Of course, the vast majority of "take down" requests we see are DMCA notices, and these are reviewed very carefully before taking any action, such as shutting someones site down.

    The best course of action is just to avoid those companies that do not agree with your individual philosophies and beliefs. Spend your money elsewhere and support those companies that actually respect your content.

  21. #21
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    My take on it is that GoDaddy shouldn't be playing police.
    Like anyone else Myspace should have utilized the abuse contact for Seclists's host.

    They would have gotten a quicker response and Fyodor would have
    had sufficient time to remove the item just like any of us would expect.

    While I agree that yes, GoDaddy is free to have their terms of service -- they should not be playing police as a registrar. Just because someone has the ability to stop something doesn't necessarily mean they should utilize it the moment a corporation comes running along with a complaint.

    There are abuse contacts for a reason.
    David
    Web hosting by Fused For businesses with more important things to do than worry about their hosting.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Smith
    Thought this was pretty funny and would be of intrest to you guys.

    Here's a clip:
    Merged with current discussion.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  23. #23
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    Surrey BC
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    MySpace was responding to a legitimate concern about its users' privacy. More than a week ago, nearly 60,000 MySpace passwords and user names were disclosed on the Full Disclosure list. They had been collected and posted on a phishing Web site
    Well we learned on thing out of this. There are 60,000 retards out there who will click anything and everything. No wonder spam and phishing is profitble.


    + NOW WE'RE MAKING RECORDS, NOW WE'RE MAKING TAPES

  24. #24
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    i never heard of a registrar doing such thing

    maybe a hosting company who owns the servers that hosts the contents

    but domain registrar?

  25. #25
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    GoDaddy acted based on his TOS : yes
    GoDaddy is a big AVOID at all costs registrar IMO : yes

    GoDaddy wanted to cover his a$$ and this is what he did. Myspace is not someone GD wants to mess up with

    The TOS is a knife used to cut to pieces little guys OR prepare a meal for big customers
    It can be disregarded it or followed to the letter. It depends on the profit of the registrar

    However this uncertainty some registrars create for domain names is not good at all for the net
    Domains have nothing to do with the content and should not be taken down if the host provider is slow or can't be found
    and before you say that "nobody should worry if he plays safe" think again

    It's so easy to be accused for something you did by mistake (against the TOS) or if malicious people create fake accusations

    Domain Name is the frontdoor of your site, the site you invested time and money to build

    So in other words read the TOS of every registrar, find friendly and small registrars you can communicate

    A good registrar is not someone that you can have fast support for simple issues but when he's able to support you to more complex issues like this
    --- ZARDEN.com : Buy and Market Domain Names ---

  26. #26
    Out of curiosity, if you have lot's of domains registered with godaddy, where would you transfer them to where you wouldn't have faced this problem?

  27. #27
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    I know at least 4 other companies who've had their domains yanked by godaddy for no good reason, so I do not recommend them at all. I know a hosting company that had their domain suspended because a spammer pointed their domain at their DNS servers and then spammed - if they can do that to a hosting company, they can do it to anyone.
    AppliedOperations - Premium Service
    Bandwidth | Colocation | Hosting | Managed Services | Consulting
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  28. #28
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    when you register a domain, you are entering in a contract with ICANN, and ICANN will not suspend a domain based on content, when Godaddy suspends a domain name based on content, they are interfering with ICANN's contract

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmister
    when you register a domain, you are entering in a contract with ICANN, and ICANN will not suspend a domain based on content, when Godaddy suspends a domain name based on content, they are interfering with ICANN's contract
    This may be true that ICANN rules also apply, but even so, GoDaddy's ToS/AUP takes precedence in this case. You are entering into a binding agreement when you do business with GoDaddy, and that means registering a domain name with them.

    Even though GoDaddy should not be arbitarily deleting domains based on content, they can, and they do it all the time. This is not the same as an ISP pulling or suspending your dedicated server or hosting account because they do not agree with the content you are hosting. Even so, is it really the REGISTRARS duty to be terminating your domains if they don't like what you are doing?

    The other chilling thing here is that you are able to do anything at all when a domain is suspeded, even transferring away to another registrar if you want to. This means they can keep your domain "hostage" if they want. In fact, I have seen cases where GoDaddy would do just that for archane reasons they see fit. I am not sure I would keep comfertable with having my domains with any company as "unstable" as this. It's just nuts.

  30. #30
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    Yet another reason to avoid GoDaddy.

    Peace,
    Testing 1.. Testing 1..2.. Testing 1..2..3...

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by elmister
    when you register a domain, you are entering in a contract with ICANN, and ICANN will not suspend a domain based on content, when Godaddy suspends a domain name based on content, they are interfering with ICANN's contract
    It's probably a matter of semantics. But when you register your domain name with
    the registrar, you're entering into a contract with them, not ICANN.

    The registrar's contract is with ICANN. But nowhere are you going to find anything
    in their contracts about ICANN not filtering content or prohibiting registrars from it.

    Let's try this: you ask me to bring one bottle of vodka to your party, which I agree
    to. But I brought two instead because I figured one might not be enough.

    Did I or didn't I do as you asked?

  32. #32
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    Hi Dave i see we are multi forumed guys, right

    Even if you're right, the user sign under registrar TOS, let's not forget what a registrar is
    He's an appointed reseller from ICANN with contracts with Verisign and other registries

    Even every registrar can sell according to the rules he wants, all of them are supervised from registry and ICANN

    If someone wants to complaign he can easily go to ICANN and do it. It has even a specific feature for this. So the registrar is not someone who has the absolute power over your domain, he just resell to you the name and contact the registry that he was paid and that the name is valid

    We should safeguard the Domain Name idea and protect it from irresponsible registrars trying to enforce their power over them. I don't think small domain name buyers will feel good with this situation and certainly neirther do i

    IMO i don't think GoDaddy acted for the good of internet as a good "punisher" he claims he is, but for the protection of his a$$ so taking this as a lesson let's protect our own a$$es and forget about him, see only his superbowl ads and nothing else

    If he thinks it's easy to register a name (according to 2nd rejected commercial ad) i think it's much easier if we just skip him for a better registrar
    --- ZARDEN.com : Buy and Market Domain Names ---

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zan
    Let's try this: you ask me to bring one bottle of vodka to your party, which I agree
    to. But I brought two instead because I figured one might not be enough.

    Did I or didn't I do as you asked?
    I'd say you exceeded my expectations
    Signature Under Construction.

  34. #34
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    Mar 2004
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    I'd say you want me totally drunk to sexually abuse me, in that case, i would only drink water LOL!

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by elmister
    I'd say you want me totally drunk to sexually abuse me, in that case, i would only drink water LOL!
    Not exactly what I had in mind. But amazing what our minds cook up.

  36. #36
    It appears the author of that domain Go Daddy shut down put up a gripe site:

    http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...mment-28486413

    Unless my eyes deceive me, there's one detail in that article that suggests Fyodor
    hasn't learned his lesson.

  37. #37
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    I don't know what was the lesson about

    Lesson for the owner of the site or lesson for GoDaddy, because from what i can see GoDaddy can do anything without a problem (it's in his TOS)
    He didn't even publish a formal reply for this incident.

    If he wants to create an anti-GoDaddy site i don't see why not
    (by the way i love the logo of NoDaddy.com)

    There are LOT of people with the same anti-GoDaddy ideas
    If he cross the legal lines then he will just pay for this, that's all

    None waits to see GoDaddy disappear, his marketing is very good but we are not forced to bow GoDaddy too

    People love GoDaddy (for some reason) or hate him (for other reasons)

    What i recognize in Mr.Parson is that he's a hardcore gambler. He risks a lot but apart from this nothing else
    Maybe he still has his killer instincts. I see he doesn't take no as an answer. His superbowl ad was REJECTED 13 times. I wonder what was his code of ethics when he tried to pass it the previous 12 times. I guess he doesn't want people to be so strict with his business as he is with his customers

    GoDaddy gets clearly my THUMBS DOWN and i don't see his superb support to work too (for my case)
    I sent a help request regarding one sale at tdnam and i never got a reply (there was no relevant reply at their faq)
    It's a joke for me to trust my domains there


    "Parsons learned his most important business lesson while sitting on a wall in Vietnam with the unshakable conviction that he was about to die. After nearly flunking out of high school, he had enlisted in the Marine Corps. He was still a raw recruit when he met up with his squad in the Quang Nam province in 1969 and learned that he was a replacement for one of four guys killed a couple of days earlier. Panic nearly paralyzed him. It was only after he accepted that his life would end in 'Nam that he could function, and he made surviving until each day's mail call his goal. "That attitude's gotten me through all the spooky stuff in business," he says"
    --- ZARDEN.com : Buy and Market Domain Names ---

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zan
    It appears the author of that domain Go Daddy shut down put up a gripe site:

    http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...mment-28486413

    Unless my eyes deceive me, there's one detail in that article that suggests Fyodor
    hasn't learned his lesson.
    The fact that he is using directnic who also suspends domains?

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by RossH
    The fact that he is using directnic who also suspends domains?
    Bingo.

    Wasn't there a saying that people who don't learn from their past tend to repeat
    it?

  40. #40
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    Jun 2005
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    5,866
    I guessed that correctly too, but RossH beat me to it

    I just love the domain name. For sure GD will go after it with a wipo action for being "confusingly similar" to their trademark. I think that's 50/50 or more in favor of GD.

    For sure they'll just go to DN and ask them to close the site down. I think they have a case with the logo and the GD girls pictures at least.

    Obviously the site has been put up in a hurry. Best of luck to them.
    Signature Under Construction.

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