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  1. #1
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    Seems like I'm under Directnic's "Child porn abuse" effect, do I have any chances?

    Hello.

    I'm operating a small, private community purpose photo gallery & forum. Domain was registered trough directnic. Website is hosted at servage. Site is up for about 2 years and has average 400 uniques/day (too small to be worth mentioning, isn't it?). Site "privacy" is done via .htaccess, from where I've allowed only some subnets to have access. Everything worked till 20th january, when, while testing something, I've turned .htaccess protection off and forgot to turn it back on. At the same day, directnic put my domain on "legal registar-hold". I don't have porn, warez, movies, or any kind of illegal things hosted at my site, nor domain name has close resemblance to other domains/brands. At least, my hoster has no problems with my content.

    Since I'm not US resident, and don't have a lot of money to fight directnic's stupidity, what should I do? I can't move my domain off, so should I wait for directnic's godness to give me back control of my domain, or should I go to new one?

    I forgot to mention, directnic doesn't responds to my tickets.
    Last edited by Linuxhata; 01-21-2007 at 07:30 PM.
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  2. #2
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    What do directnic say about this?
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  3. #3
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    you can go on a legal approach, you do need any money. Just file a case against them and things would automatically start.
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  4. #4
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    how do someone (foreign) file a case against a registrar?
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by elmister
    how do someone (foreign) file a case against a registrar?
    Well, you can fly to the registrar's state (DirectNIC's in Louisiana, NetSol in Virginia,
    etc.) and file suit there. Another option (if possible) is to file under any applicable
    law in your area, win, and try to enforce judgment under any agreements (if any)
    between the US and your country.

    Linuxhata, what options (if any) has DirectNIC given you?

    Worse comes to worse, get a new domain name and choose another registrar. But
    make sure to read their fine print and ask them questions first.
    Last edited by Dave_Z; 01-22-2007 at 02:19 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Directnic doesn't responds to my trouble tickets, nor they warned me in any way.

    I also have 6 another domains with them registered (I'm their customer since 2000), so I thik I should move them all out...
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  7. #7
    Try these:

    http://www.directnic.com/about/contact.php

    To contact Technical Support please submit a trouble ticket:
    http://www.directnic.com/help/tts/
    or send email to: support @ directnic.com

    To contact our legal department, send mail to: legal @ directnic . com
    Make sure to send specifics. No guarantees if you especially email since email isn't
    as reliable today, though anything's better than nothing.

    I'm honestly not optimistic since you "violated" DirectNIC's registration agreement.
    I read in their legal fine print about a $1000 fine, but they can still choose to just
    ignore you if you're not worth the risk.

    Good luck.
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  8. #8
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    "Child porn abuse"
    What do you have that made them think this?
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  9. #9
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    Because here is topic, about directnic suing TGP gallery for suspecting them to have child porn
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  10. #10
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    Yes, I understand that. I was asking if you had content that could be considered questionable, not an explanaton of the topic. What makes them think you have child porn?
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  11. #11
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    Since I don't have anything other than .jpg and .html files, and there are no racist and terrorist or other illegal things mentioned, but some girls from community have uploaded their beach photos, they might think so.

    Nah, directnic stuff is reading this topic, I'm 100% sure I just recieved an response to ticket:

    This domain has been placed on legal hold pending an illegal content investigation. It appears that some of the thumbnail images on your page contain underage girls in various states of undress.
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  12. #12
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    I've uploaded some of images from gallery (removed faces, since it's private thing), you can check it:

    http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2495/face19bo.jpg

    http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5/face29mo.jpg

    http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8394/face36jd.jpg

    at various stages of "undress"
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  13. #13
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    I'd have to say they may have a point. While not nudity or sexual situations (except for #2 which is risque), they are very provocative for being underaged girls.
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  14. #14
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    If you're personally interested, I can send you #2 -s contact info (not from our site, she also has profile on some dating site), maybe you'll get in touch

    back to directnic, there's forum, people register, people chat, people upload their photos. Whole community is closed-type and access only granted to people after through verification. Doesn't directnic has any more business, than peeking into keyhole? and before contacting directnic, I've had conversation with hoster's suport, concerning images stored, and they said, that everything is ok.

    So I learned that I should move from direcnic away. Can you suggest me some europe-based .com domain registrar, so I can transfer my other domains from directnic?
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  15. #15
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    No, Linuxhata, I'm not the least bit interested in underage girls, thanks. I was merely saying that I felt images of underage girls in "stripping" poses is probably what they are upset about. Suggestive or provocative posing of teens and preteens is not something you can defend as "art" or anything else, even if they uploaded it themselves. A picture of a girl by a pool is perhaps defensible. In underwear, showing part of her bottom is not.
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  16. #16
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    That girl is not underage, she's about 23, I mean that saying she's on some dating site (where ages are verified by 3rd side, not by me, so you can get sure)
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  17. #17
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    If the examples you posted were not relevant to the issue, why did you post them? The specific charge is "child" porn. Posting relatively safe images of legal adults is not the problem here, I should think.

    Oh and before you have the idea to post images of teens and preteens in states of undress...don't. My point was not whatever specific images you care to provide, my point is they may have a case if this is indicative of the images, and they are of younger girls/boys.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linuxhata
    at various stages of "undress"
    So how old are they?

    EDIT: Mind you that in some jurisdictions, if the objects (models) LOOK or pretend to be younger (minor), you'll still be in trouble.
    Co-Founder @HostHideout. Profoundly influenced by #Bauhaus, @Nameslave unrepentantly embraces #Minimalism with a bias for functionality, color theory and pixel precision: a #multimedia messenger in the McLuhan sense. His totally irrelevant M.Ed. dissertation examines Organizational Culture and Change Management. He also likes Patrik Ervell, Wong Kar-wai and IKEA.
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  19. #19
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    I don't know exactly how age everyone is. Forum lists about 860 members, they have over 2000 photos total uploaded. I should check every photo? or I should care about everyones age?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linuxhata
    I should check every photo? or I should care about everyones age?
    Sounds as if here is where the problem lies, failure to care about such important issues, is likely why you are currently experiencing such a very bad situation.

    Also, as this is not a common situation people find themselves in, whatever material they have seen posted, is likely highly questionable, to warrant this type of accuisation.
    Last edited by zwolf; 01-22-2007 at 01:40 PM.
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  21. #21
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    My hoster says my content is OK. Directnic says - NO. Who is right?
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  22. #22
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    It doesn't really matter who is right or wrong. That fact remains your domain is suspended by your registrar. You need to do whatever it takes to get them to un-suspend your domain or move to another domain and registrar.
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Linuxhata
    My hoster says my content is OK. Directnic says - NO. Who is right?
    It doesn't matter who's right.

    The fact remains you've violated DirectNIC's legal print. Obviously you both see it
    in different directions, but you're using their service and agree to their terms even
    if you really don't.

    Sounds like they finally replied to you that they're currently investigating. It looks
    like you'll have to wait, but do ask them for options if any.

    However, do expect the worst (like that $1,000 thing I posted). You can probably
    transfer your other domain names if they haven't locked the others yet, but you'll
    still have to wait for DirectNIC's decision on the one in question.

    Good luck searching for a Europe-based registrar who's possibly not as "strict". I
    think there's joker.com and gkg.net, but I haven't given them a try yet.

    Unfortunately this is one hard lesson you've learned the hard way. Expect this sort
    of thing next time.
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  24. #24
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    Did he really violated Directnic's legal print? I see this as another abuse from Directnic, if the site had child porn, Directnic should have reported to authorities, instead of playing to be the police, closing sites instead of reporting them will make CP site owners happy, because their biggest risk is having their sites closed instead of having theis asses on prison.

    And this as a side effect, innocent people that has nothing to do with CP gets their sites down because of their mistakes.

    Directnic is going to be sued because a few weeks ago closed a famous TGP site that had all legal content, and hopefully will proof it in a trial against Directnic
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  25. #25
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    You have a real can of worms there, first of all a registra can't legaly
    pull a domain without actual proof of underage pix, your hosting co can
    suspend you after giving you notice to remove questionable contact
    but a registra is over stepping it's authority.

    If you truly did have any underage content they're required by law to
    report it to legal authoritys.
    Not doing so they can lose their Biz license and their authority to reg domains.

    I'm surprised DirectNIC hasn't responded to this thread, I'm sure they
    were flaged by Board Tracker of their name in this thread.

    I'd tell them to either release the hold on my domain or fine me the $1000!
    If they can't prove anything they can't fine ya, if they can't fine you they don't
    have enough to suspend ya domain..

    Therefore if they can prove it you should have been reported, if you wern't
    then they have no real proof and have no right to shut ya down.

    And unless you're pulling someones chain those pix you posted looked
    like 20 year olds at least.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTown
    You have a real can of worms there, first of all a registra can't legaly
    pull a domain without actual proof of underage pix, your hosting co can
    suspend you after giving you notice to remove questionable contact
    but a registra is over stepping it's authority.
    If it's in the TOS for the registrar, and you agreed to it when you bought the domain, then it's probably legal. I don't happen to agree with it, but my opinion won't matter on that.
    And unless you're pulling someones chain those pix you posted looked
    like 20 year olds at least.
    That was my point earlier. Though I disagree they look 20+, he's not posting the images (and shouldn't) of the underage kids in question...
    Last edited by bear; 01-23-2007 at 09:38 AM.
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  27. #27
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    The fact remains you've violated DirectNIC's legal print. - This is not true. FACT is, that Directnic BELIEVES that I've violated their TOS. They have to PROOVE that there's CP on my website. If I was in USA, I'll fine a good lawsuit against them, but unfortunately, I can't.
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  28. #28
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    Their ToS almost certainly contains a clause to the effect they are not liable for anything and even if they are found liable, it's limited to the registration fee. You'd be wasting your own energy, time, and money getting a lawyer. These registrars are all sharks. All of them. Normal business ethics don't apply to domain registrars.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear
    If it's in the TOS for the registrar, and you agreed to it when you bought the domain, then it's probably legal. I don't happen to agree with it, but my opinion won't matter on that.

    That was my point earlier. Though I disagree they look 20+, he's not posting the images (and shouldn't) of the underage kids in question...
    I guess neither of us can give anything more than an opinion as far
    as the sites TOS goes but shutting someone down and causing them
    a monitary loss when they're not sure is borderline lawsuit time.

    The only thing I can say that is a fact without posting an opinion is IF
    they deemed the content to be Child Porn they could get in big trouble
    for not reporting it to the authorities.

    Unlike a surfer who runs across it they are legaly bound to report it, if
    they didn't then they're overstepping even their TOS.
    I think there was alot of discussion on a different board about this a
    few weeks back, I'm going to see if I can find it.

    If anything everything isn't being told here, if they just shut him down
    because of a judgement call and it got out on the webmaster boards
    they'd lose a shitload of Bizzzzzzzzzz and I don't think that's in their
    interest and they're no dummies.

    There's more to this than we've been told so far..

    Also I'm sure Directnic uses Board Tracker and is notified whenever their
    name pops up in a Board thread, and with Child Porn in the same thread
    if they were in the right they'd be posting here..

    The Juries out..
    PS maybe I can get them to respond..

    .
    Last edited by ChiTown; 01-23-2007 at 10:35 AM.
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  30. #30
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    Directnic positivly knows about this thread, let's see if they respond.
    If nothing else maybe some light will be cast on what is factual..

    I know with threads about a Registra pulling domains alot of
    webmasters remember and stay away from them and also post
    it when other threads have the registra in them.

    Search engine requests about them also show forum threads so anyone
    putting Directnic in search will find this thread after the SE bots hits it..
    The last thing any registra needs is bad press on a Domain Forum..

    Personally I doubt they'd just pull it for the reasons we have in this thread..

    .
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  31. #31
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    We all need a sealand principality based registrar
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTown
    first of all a registra can't legaly pull a domain without actual proof of underage pix
    You can rest assured that every registrar on earth would have TONS of legal reasons as espoused in their TOS to shut down a domain name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linuxhata
    The fact remains you've violated DirectNIC's legal print. - This is not true. FACT is, that Directnic BELIEVES that I've violated their TOS. They have to PROOVE that there's CP on my website. If I was in USA, I'll fine a good lawsuit against them, but unfortunately, I can't.
    AND a clause that says THEY (i.e. NOT YOU) will have the final say of what constitutes term violation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTown
    shutting someone down and causing them a monitary loss when they're not sure is borderline lawsuit time.
    As well as one that waives (or at least limit in some jurisdictions) their liabilities to damage.
    Co-Founder @HostHideout. Profoundly influenced by #Bauhaus, @Nameslave unrepentantly embraces #Minimalism with a bias for functionality, color theory and pixel precision: a #multimedia messenger in the McLuhan sense. His totally irrelevant M.Ed. dissertation examines Organizational Culture and Change Management. He also likes Patrik Ervell, Wong Kar-wai and IKEA.
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  33. #33
    I can see why number 2 has them upset. That could be a big problem for you if she's under age. At the same time though, are the users of your site aware of what they can and cannot post? And shouldn't you be tracking things once in a while to make sure all the activity is legal?
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  34. #34
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    [nameslave]You can rest assured that every registrar on earth would have
    TONS of legal reasons as espoused in their TOS to shut down a domain name.

    What is a TOS?
    Does it constitute a contract?
    Isn't a contract between parties an agreement that benifits both parties?

    And find something in their TOS about using their domain name
    registration service that covers anything you put on your website.
    They seem to distance themselves very well from your site/company in that section.
    In fact there is another section that states they are in no way
    responsible for anything, links or otherwise you put on your site that are
    hosted by someone else.


    AND a clause that says THEY (i.e. NOT YOU) will have the final say of what constitutes term violation.

    In other words their TOS was carved in stone on a mountain top and
    they are free to define it as they wish even if it is different from 1 party
    to another!
    Now that's another thing I can't see.
    They are defined as an "online service"'
    As per S.4089 which amends Chapter 110 of title 18 sect 2257 they are
    REQUIRED by law to report CP and it's a crime for them NOT to report it.
    So either their FINAL SAY was the conclusion that it wasn't CP and
    therefore had NO right to pull the domain, OR by pulling it they're saying
    they did deem it to be CP and therefore violated a Federal Law by
    NOT reporting it!
    You CAN'T have 2 opinions on 1 thing for different people.
    No mater how you dress a pig he's still a pig, and that was either
    CP or not CP.


    As well as one that waives (or at least limit in some jurisdictions) their
    liabilities to damage.

    As far as Liabilities go that's not always the case either,
    a Judge of Jury can change that if a flagrent act is commited that cost
    someone to lose his Bizz because of someones bad judgement

    Also this isn't the first time they've done this, last time was not long ago
    and he got a lawyer, also got most of his sites back.

    I'm all for anyone getting rid of Child Porn, but if they judged the pix that
    were posted CP and they're owned by people that have been in the porn
    industry for a long time you'd think they'd at least give everyone a
    chance to defend themselves instead of no notice to prove his innocence
    and not even have the class to answer and explain anything to emails
    sent to them.

    They lost thousands of domains to transfers the last time they did this and
    many Webmasters who'll always remember and post in threads about
    finding a good registra will cost them more Biz in the future..
    .

    Below are some comments from their last Domain Hijack..

    "I don't think many people were upset with the legal side of things and
    whether it broke any privacy laws.
    I think people were upset that a registrar was playing police and holding
    a domain hostage. "
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    "I think DirectNic overstepped their boundaries on this issue.
    While I feel they have every right to tell the individual that they don't care
    to be their registrar anymore, I don't think they should be locking down a
    domain and holding it hostage.
    They should tell him to transfer it out immediately or they will drop it.
    This leaves them with no liability."
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    "About a year ago I transferred my "main" sites to directnic.
    Even though DN were more expensive.
    I thought my sites were "safer" there.
    That's no longer the case. I'm transferring them back to godaddy.
    "Safe" doesn't amount to "arbitrary"
    I've got nothing to hide but I refuse to support an organisation that
    is clearly shitting its pants."
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    "once you get the domains back and hopefully moved sue the **** out
    of them for every penny you lost.
    I will NEVER register a domain with DirectNIC, and will never recomend
    them to anyone.
    I still hope people transfer away from them.
    I will never ever again reg a domain at Directnic."
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
    "Whether legally right or wrong, this is a slippery slope I don't think
    DirectNic fully thought through before taking action."
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    "Why would anyone support Directnic in this case..
    It's clear that if the sites are now back up, nothing was illegal on them.
    So that means DirectNic jumped the gun and put ----- livelihood in jeopardy.
    Who knows how much money they have cost him due to this fiasco.
    I've successfully moved my names away and will never do business with
    them again."
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    "DN: You made us look bad so we'll just cut off your income for a day or two"
    I hope they burn for this... long and hard.
    I will never ever use DirectNIC for anything."
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    "What the frikkin hell gives a domain name registrar the right to hold domain names that they do not own to ransom??? "
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    " I don't promote teens.. But given what DirectNic did, there's no way
    in hell I'd ever use them..
    I don't intent to put my business at risk with a company that will arbitrarily
    lock me out of my domains or shut down my sites.
    I really can't believe all the morons focused on the CP issue...
    What they did goes beyond that issue. In this case it was CP.
    Tomorrow they could get a report for something else "illegal".
    Do you really want to take that risk?
    Even if you have everything "legal" in place on your end that's no guarentee
    they wouldn't do the exact same thing to you"
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    "On the other hand, with 1000 domains transfered, Directnic has lost
    whoapping $1946 and 89 cents. No more year end bonuses, nada, zilch, ----
    has put them on their niz!"


    "
    <removed tons of extra space>
    Last edited by bear; 01-23-2007 at 07:59 PM.
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  35. #35
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    Despite all the rights and wrongs of a registrar's ToS, or whether it would hold up in a court of law, or any actions by any registrar, the fact remains that THE DOMAIN IS SUSPENDED. It's doing whatever the registrar requires to get it unsuspended, or moving to a new domain and registrar. They can follow up with any legal issues after that.
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  36. #36
    Wow....I love how most of you jumped on the guilty until proven innocent bandwagon. Even if he was hosting child porn it is not directnic's responsibility to close down his site and they are probably doing more harm then good. Some times when child porn sites are reported the FBI will capture who is going to these sites and bust them they can't do this if registrars just kill the site.

    Anyway it is not directnic's responsibility and they shouldn't be policing their domain database.
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  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by RossH
    Even if he was hosting child porn it is not directnic's responsibility to close down his site and they are probably doing more harm then good. Some times when child porn sites are reported the FBI will capture who is going to these sites and bust them they can't do this if registrars just kill the site.

    Anyway it is not directnic's responsibility and they shouldn't be policing their domain database.
    I share your opinion about it. But DirectNIC and some registrars don't, and there's
    no requirement for them to do so.

    Let's be clear about something: it doesn't matter to any of us if we believe A and
    the registrar believes B. The fact is we agree to all their terms the moment we do
    check the box beside something like "I have read the legal agreements and agree
    to all its terms."

    That is plain basic contract law. Any licensed competent lawyer will tell you such.

    FYI for some of you: the US has what's called the "e-signature" law:

    http:// archives .cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/06/30/clinton.e.signatures.02/index.html

    President Clinton took the unusual step Friday of ushering in a revolution in the formalization of Internet commerce by signing the long-awaited e-signatures bill into law -- symbolically using new digital signature technology to do so.

    The bill accords online "electronic" signatures intended to complete legal agreements or commercial transactions the same legal status as a formal signature scrawled out on a paper document.
    The article indicated it took effect since Oct. 1, 2000.

    You can probably argue it doesn't apply to you if you're not US-based. Well then,
    try to force the registrar to do your bidding.

    If you violate any of their terms, then they'll do what their legal agreements, the
    contracts you agreed to even if you don't, state. And that gives them all the rights
    in the world.

    ChiTown, a contract benefits both parties if both agree to the terms stated there.
    You don't like the terms, then don't agree to it in the first place.

    Can you get the service provider to change their terms to suit you? No, and you've
    no enforceable action to get them to do so.

    But then, you do have other choices. Makes one glad for that, don't you think?

    Linuxhata, any update on your situation?
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  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by RossH
    Even if he was hosting child porn it is not directnic's responsibility to close down his site and they are probably doing more harm then good. Some times when child porn sites are reported the FBI will capture who is going to these sites and bust them they can't do this if registrars just kill the site.

    Anyway it is not directnic's responsibility and they shouldn't be policing their domain database.
    I share your opinion about it. But DirectNIC and some registrars don't, and there's
    no requirement for them to do so.

    Let's be clear about something: it doesn't matter to any of us if we believe A and
    the registrar believes B. The fact is we agree to all their terms the moment we do
    check the box beside something like "I have read the legal agreements and agree
    to all its terms."

    That is plain basic contract law. Any licensed competent lawyer will tell you such.

    FYI for some of you: the US has what's called the "e-signature" law:

    http:// archives .cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/06/30/clinton.e.signatures.02/index.html

    President Clinton took the unusual step Friday of ushering in a revolution in the formalization of Internet commerce by signing the long-awaited e-signatures bill into law -- symbolically using new digital signature technology to do so.

    The bill accords online "electronic" signatures intended to complete legal agreements or commercial transactions the same legal status as a formal signature scrawled out on a paper document.
    The article indicated it took effect since Oct. 1, 2000.

    You can probably argue it doesn't apply to you if you're not US-based. Well then,
    try to force the registrar to do your bidding.

    If you violate any of their terms, then they'll do what their legal agreements, the
    contracts you agreed to even if you don't, state. And that gives them all the rights
    in the world.

    ChiTown, a contract ideally benefits both parties if both agree to the terms stated
    there. But we live in the real world where one party can inject a term you don't
    like, you sign and agree to it, and you're royally screwed.

    You don't like the terms, then don't agree to it in the first place.

    Can you get the service provider to change their terms to suit you? No, and you've
    no enforceable action to get them to do so.

    But then, you do have other choices. Makes one glad for that, don't you think?

    Linuxhata, any update on your situation?
      0 Not allowed!

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Lame question, I live at home, where else?
    Posts
    67
    No, Directnic is silent on responding to my another tickets.

    In fact, loosing this domain name don't means a lot for me, since Our website is located elsewhere, and I used this domain just for gallery, since I already owned it, decided to use it for gallery, not just parked domain.
    Currently I've moved gallery to another, non directnic registered domain and updated links on main site.

    I have a question, that domain is expiring in about 5 months. Will they keep it forever? or drop once again?
      0 Not allowed!

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Clinton Country
    Posts
    108
    Seems like everyone is missing my point!

    This is a simple black and white issue and we'll grant Directnic the power
    of God to make their mind up and use their TOS extortive authority.

    Their TOS only gives them the right to pull a domain for a violation
    of it, not for getting close to it. This isn't a game of horseshoes!

    Then came to a finding after intense checking and deemed it NOT Child Porn
    so he didn't violate their Laws and therefor they had no right pulling it!..

    OR did they find in their small minds that it really WAS Child Porn and
    commit the criminal act of NOT reporting it as is the law?

    Either way I would never take a chance of having a domain anywhere
    that could be taken on a whim with no chance to reply because they're
    always right, their TOS says that..
    And I'm not alone in thinking that, there are alot of Adult and
    Domain trader webmasters that think the same way.
    This is the second thread in a short period of them doing it, what's next?

    What if they added a clause tomorrow that all domain owners had to give
    the boss a BJ?
      0 Not allowed!

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