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  1. #1
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    PayPal Are Reasonable

    I thought id just let everyone know PayPal are reasonable and that it is worth battling a chargeback against products and goods and even hosting sometimes as you will get somewhere like i have
    Last edited by keywolf; 01-19-2007 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    How did you fight it? What proof did you send them?

    --Tina
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  3. #3
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    Various details asked for

    Best suggestion is to keep a copy of everything, emails signup details IP addresses etc

  4. #4
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    Okay, if you want to actually help people...give us some details or information. To simply say "you can fight it and win" is not really very helpful.

    --Tina
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linuxtechie
    I thought id just let everyone know PayPal are reasonable and that it is worth battling a chargeback against products and goods and even hosting sometimes as you will get somewhere like i have
    We've had people do PayPal disputes after purchasing advertising, in the resolution center you can write that it was for a virtual good/service and does not qualify for PayPal buyer protection. Then you can attached IP logs from your ordering system along with confirmation of use (in our case sending creative for their company or in your case using hosting). That almost always closes the mater except when they do a chargeback with their credit card company against PayPal. Over all, PayPal is very easy to deal with compared to the issuing banks when it comes to chargebacks.
    -Mat Sumpter
    Director, Product Engagement
    Penton Media

  6. #6
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    Let's make sure we keep the definitions straight.

    Paypal dispute: Someone disputes the validity of a payment they sent via Paypal funds. This is NOT a chargeback. Paypal will then ask for your side of the story. These are fairly simple to win.

    Chargeback: Someone disputes the validity of a payment they sent via Paypal, but funded by their credit card. They aren't lodging the dispute with Paypal, they are lodging it with their credit card company...who then files a complaint against Paypal. Paypal then takes it up with you, so that they can fight the credit card company. I've never been successful in fighting these.

    --Tina
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Let's make sure we keep the definitions straight.

    Paypal dispute: Someone disputes the validity of a payment they sent via Paypal funds. This is NOT a chargeback. Paypal will then ask for your side of the story. These are fairly simple to win.

    Chargeback: Someone disputes the validity of a payment they sent via Paypal, but funded by their credit card. They aren't lodging the dispute with Paypal, they are lodging it with their credit card company...who then files a complaint against Paypal. Paypal then takes it up with you, so that they can fight the credit card company. I've never been successful in fighting these.

    --Tina
    Well normally for us a PayPal dispute will turn into a chargeback fairly quickly, in the dispute phase we normally win, once they go to a true chargeback it is 50/50. In my experience PayPal has an entire division of people for fighting chargebacks and with the proper evidence they can succeed.

    We have two types of chargebacks normally:
    1. Disgruntled customer
    2. Pure fraud


    When a customer sends us creative for his company and calls us several times, we have logs of this and it is very easy to tie this information to his payment. These we normally win without much fuss with PayPal.

    When we see pure fraud such as someone's account being stolen, we will normally refund the purchase or allow the chargeback.

    I can normally look at the details of the transaction and tell a difference (new web site, account unused, ip mis-match, etc)
    -Mat Sumpter
    Director, Product Engagement
    Penton Media

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    Issuing a chargeback also earns paypal more money. You get a chargeback of let's say $50.00 that transpired over 2 months. they made how much? 2.79% (2.39% for merchant) + .30 per transaction right? Now that same chargeback , two seperate ones since they were 2 seperate transactions earns them 20.00 from your pocket. $10.00 per CB.

    Justify the cost anyway you want but there staff is already in place so they are just trying to increase revenues.


    BTw here is one dispute I actually filed for a service we contracted and never recieved. We won! Yup thats right and we are still awaiting our money because the guy beat feet and is still doing business under a new name with a new paypal account.

    Yes paypal ain't so bad.. IMHO they are terrible but a neccesary evil and cost of doing business.




    We have completed our investigation of this case. We attempted to process a refund from the seller's account to your account. Unfortunately, the seller's account does not contain the funds necessary to cover this refund. We were able to recover $0.00 USD. We have taken action against the seller and are working to recover the remainder of your refund. We will contact you when we have more information. No further action is required of you at this time.

    Non-receipt - Case ID: XX-221-993-XXX

    Status: Case Closed
    Transaction ID: 2V835393NE3045749


    Seller Name & Email: Txx-TSG, [email protected]

    Transaction Amount: -$721.76 USD


    Transaction Date: Oct. 7, 2006
    My IP >> 127.0.0.1 Hack Away!!

  9. #9
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    Now that same chargeback , two seperate ones since they were 2 seperate transactions earns them 20.00 from your pocket. $10.00 per CB.
    In seven years of dealing with paypal, never, once have I had to pay a fee as a buyer. My most recent? Last month. They do not charge any sort of "from your pocket" fee for chargebacks, or if they do it is on a very rare case.
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  10. #10
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    Apr 2006
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    Someone I sold a virtual product do suddenly did a Paypal dispute against me after he had received the item. I phoned Paypal...



    Now picture me, a Verified, Premium Paypal member with 50+ seller repuation points and registered for 5 years.

    VERSUS

    Non-verified account with 0 reputation points, registered for 3 weeks.



    Who's side did they take?

    I'll let you decide...

  11. #11
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    Who's side did they take?
    If you did things properly, they would have taken yours. If you screwed up, then, they would have taken the customer's.

    All you have to do is tell them that this was a "virtual product", or a "service", and voilla, case closed. Those are magic words to paypal, as their protection policies do not cover either item. They cover tangible items only.

    Even if the buyer takes things to the bank, the bank will still start the same procedure that the user does with paypal. They call paypal, paypal looks up the item, places a chargeback on behalf of both parties, and voilla, again, all you hve to do is mention "service", and it's found in your favor.

    Paypal took a very controversial (and right) step in accepting only certain forms of chargebacks and complaints. As the largest (or close to) internet based payment provider, they realized that services would be provided, and fools would try to rip people off for said services on a constant basis. Thusly, they side with the individual who actually performed the services.

    Now, in extreme cases, I've heard of this not working (Angel networks, anyone? ) , where massive complaints were filed against a provider, but as a general rule, if it's a service, or non tangible good, they won't touch it. They even state so in their TOS/AUP
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  12. #12
    this is kind of absurd, i guess it is sort've pushing the limits, but what if for very very expensive sale you have the purchaser also buy a mousepad or t-shirt with your companies logo, not given away for free, bundled as part of the sale. show the invoice for the t-shirt delivery, and you've sold a tangible item, no?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodhisattva
    this is kind of absurd, i guess it is sort've pushing the limits, but what if for very very expensive sale you have the purchaser also buy a mousepad or t-shirt with your companies logo, not given away for free, bundled as part of the sale. show the invoice for the t-shirt delivery, and you've sold a tangible item, no?
    Seems like a lot of trouble to go through. We are a Paypal verified business acct, with a verified transaction rating of close to 2000. They only count payments sent to you from other verified Paypal members, so I can tell you that the number of transactions we've actually taken in is many, many times that amount. I think we've had maybe 3 chargebacks brought against us in 6 years.

    Unless you're not screening your orders very well, or doing business with a lot of shady people...I don't see the threat of chargebacks being a huge problem.

    --Tina
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    All you have to do is tell them that this was a "virtual product", or a "service", and voilla, case closed.
    I know that, but its the principle, I have a much better reputation, I am a verified, and so on...but what can I do when they ask for proof of delivery? I'm well aware the rules of their buyer protection, but it was ridiculous the way they make decisions.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Seems like a lot of trouble to go through. We are a Paypal verified business acct, with a verified transaction rating of close to 2000. They only count payments sent to you from other verified Paypal members, so I can tell you that the number of transactions we've actually taken in is many, many times that amount. I think we've had maybe 3 chargebacks brought against us in 6 years.

    Unless you're not screening your orders very well, or doing business with a lot of shady people...I don't see the threat of chargebacks being a huge problem.

    --Tina
    i agree. its not the type of thing i'd implement. i've had a few run-ins with paypal fraud orders, but its always been found well before much damage was done or money lost.

    was mostly absurd speculation.

    lol

  16. #16
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    Dec 2006
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    67
    Yep, never had a problem with Paypal. They normally solve problems pretty quickly if you stay on the right side of their guidelines.
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