Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    180

    Clustered vs. Dedicated

    Despite all the startup hiccups, clustered hosting services are for real. I have been at mosso for months and I can tell you it is a much better fit for me than a server + plesk which I used for some time. Easier, more reliable, more technologies, etc. I do realize that if you have custom configuration needs you still need dedicated. My guess is over time, mosso will take care of this as well. What do you guys think about the future of dedicated vs. clustered systems?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Posts
    3,642
    Two totally different markets
    Simpli Networks, LLC :: http://www.simplinetworks.com :: Proudly 100% Owned.
    Providing Affordable Managed Cloud/VPS Servers & Server Management Solutions.
    We offer REAL 24x7x365 in-house support - proudly serving our customers since 2005!
    Want to learn more? Give us a call - +1 (844) 4SIMPLI or email sales[@]simplinetworks.com today!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    220
    That's kind of stating the obvious, you didn't really answer his question(s).

    I would also like to learn some more about this because I was planning on buying additional servers for my shared clients. However, clusters really do seem like the way to go.

    Which companies are reliable providers for clustered solutions, and what are the advantages / disadvantages of clustered servers vs. dedicated servers for shared hosting?

    Good topic, props. Hope to learn something.
    HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
    Host unlimited Domains, MySQL Databases, E-mail Addresses, and FTP Accounts.

    Visit us today - http://www.hostingchoice.net

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    220
    Sorry for the double post, but it is a bit too late to edit.

    After reading more about clustering / Mosso, I think that clustering is very impressive, except mosso doesn't have cPanel ... which means you wouldn't be able to transfer your cPanel customers over to them.

    I don't know how cPanel would work on a system like that.

    Also, it would be very expensive to do this properly ... huge startup costs, configuration time, and all the other processes associated with it.

    Then again, Mosso's network is huge. They have Windows clusters, Linux/PHP4 and Linux/PHP5 clusters, and PHP/MySQL/MS SQL/ASP are also in their own clusters.

    I guess a shared host could setup a small cluster but I don't have any idea how that would work in a datacenter if you had your own rack.

    Lastly, this is what the Mosso rep said to me:

    Justin: We are not geared for full reselling, our target market is for designers and developers with the option to bill and support their clients

    So as a web host, Mosso is not for me ... at least not in this point in time. Their system is very intriguing though.

    EDIT: The true-hybrid system is amazing. With mosso and their clustering, you can have a .asp and a .php file in the same directory and run them both. Amazing.
    Last edited by Yeah_Buddy; 01-17-2007 at 12:27 PM.
    HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
    Host unlimited Domains, MySQL Databases, E-mail Addresses, and FTP Accounts.

    Visit us today - http://www.hostingchoice.net

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,785
    If you want to run your own cluster system on cPanel it'll take a ton of work and is probably not worth your time. I know 3Tera's Applogic has a cPanel template which can let you scale cPanel across more than one server. It would also let you load balance web servers and all that fun without the need for load balancers.

    As far as I know right now they've added the ability to scale space across multiple machines and have it mirror the data to one other machine. Unfortunately right now they don't have SSL support or multiple IP support. So it would only work on one IP for all sites.

    The second issue right now is as far as I know 3tera will not license the software to places that aren't in the need for large amounts of licenses. So right now you need to go through a place like TheGridLayer(LayeredTech) or some other similiar places. Of course these places offering the software are either insanely expensive or they simply are disorganized and do not even offer private grids (you are not sharing machines with others).
    Tony B. - Chief Executive Officer
    Hawk Host Inc. Proudly serving websites since 2004
    Quality Shared and Cloud Hosting
    PHP 5.2.x - PHP 8.1.X Support!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by HC-Sam

    EDIT: The true-hybrid system is amazing. With mosso and their clustering, you can have a .asp and a .php file in the same directory and run them both. Amazing.
    Erm hardly amazing.

    You can do that on a single server.... one of my servers is configured to serve up php, aspx and asp files....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,668
    Just wait for Hsphere 3.0 to be released stable. You can spread all the services around and it supports load balancing for web/mail service. You can also sell linux or windows if the provider has a windows box in the cluster.

    http://www.psoft.net/HSdocumentation...balancing.html

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by doc_flabby
    Erm hardly amazing.

    You can do that on a single server.... one of my servers is configured to serve up php, aspx and asp files....
    Hm, well I guess the concept is amazing then, I've never heard of it.

    So then among all the positives that accompany clustering, I also see some negative ones.
    HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
    Host unlimited Domains, MySQL Databases, E-mail Addresses, and FTP Accounts.

    Visit us today - http://www.hostingchoice.net

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    180
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_M
    Just wait for Hsphere 3.0 to be released stable. You can spread all the services around and it supports load balancing for web/mail service. You can also sell linux or windows if the provider has a windows box in the cluster.

    http://www.psoft.net/HSdocumentation...balancing.html
    The issue is I do not want to have to deal with hsphere. Or a server. Or setting up all the servers to work together. The power of a mosso is that it is a software as a service type play. I get upgrades automatically. Also, the infrastructure is not my issue. Dedicated is great if you have to have it. To me, these clustered systems mean I do not have to, for the first time.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    220
    Yeah but Mosso has one huge problem. I'd say most hosts use cPanel, and Mosso uses highly proprietary systems since their network is so unique. You would have a very hard time transferring clients back/forth etc.

    What exactly are you using them for? Are you a web host or is this just for personal hosting needs?

    HSphere is for web hosts that want to setup their own server clusters. I would never get HOSTED by HSphere but at some point I would like to host it.
    HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
    Host unlimited Domains, MySQL Databases, E-mail Addresses, and FTP Accounts.

    Visit us today - http://www.hostingchoice.net

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,971
    These days, its better to have a shared hosting on a cluster with relatively low power intel P4 (or may be even Intel III) instead of one powerful server with AMD Opteron procs.

    The idea is to eliminate a SPF (Single Point of Failure) when the loads increase.

    My philosophy is that if you buy a server, only ONE client should be using it. None of those 300 customers per server bs, regardless of how powerful the server is. And obviously, if you have one customer per server it does not retain the shared hosting status.

    Shared servers include VPS. VPS boils down to nothing but a shared hosting with root access and also prone to SPF.

    But single clients can have high demands which cannot be sufficed by the likes of a single dedicated server, thus the need for load balancing or clustering, but thats a whole another story.

    Depending on how you setup the cluster, they actually share the resources, that is one major advantage. If you have 3 physical servers in a cluster, its ok to have more than 3 clients, since the resources are shared, having 300 clients is not going to have a negative effect as long as nothing is out of the ordinary.

    And one more thing I would like to add is the fact of our reliance on control panels in linux environment way too much. Many many people come to linux and expect the host should offer a control panel for ease of use. I mean, if a client is incompetent to use shell, then he or she should look for Windows, they have remote administration and everything.

    So my suggestion is not to choose between cluster and dedicated because of your reliance on control panels.
    Last edited by HNLV; 01-18-2007 at 02:11 PM.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,668
    Quote Originally Posted by HC-Sam
    HSphere is for web hosts that want to setup their own server clusters. I would never get HOSTED by HSphere but at some point I would like to host it.
    What do you mean hosted by Hsphere? Psoft doesnt offer any hosting, just the software.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha
    I mean, if a client is incompetent to use shell, then he or she should look for Windows, they have remote administration and everything.
    That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. People don't want a linux 101 lesson, they want web hosting and it's the host's job to make it as easy as possible for them to do what they need to do.

    EDIT: I know Chris, its the software for use with clustering. I guess that previous post was worded poorly.
    HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
    Host unlimited Domains, MySQL Databases, E-mail Addresses, and FTP Accounts.

    Visit us today - http://www.hostingchoice.net

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha
    And one more thing I would like to add is the fact of our reliance on control panels in linux environment way too much. Many many people come to linux and expect the host should offer a control panel for ease of use. I mean, if a client is incompetent to use shell, then he or she should look for Windows, they have remote administration and everything.

    So my suggestion is not to choose between cluster and dedicated because of your reliance on control panels.

    Isnt the whole idea of a control panel to make hosting easier for the masses? Why shouldnt a host offer a control panel? I would think that by not having a cp, you would eliminate a large protion of potential buyers. And lets not forget that most hosts dont even offer shell access.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,668
    Quote Originally Posted by HC-Sam
    That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. People don't want a linux 101 lesson, they want web hosting and it's the host's job to make it as easy as possible for them to do what they need to do.

    EDIT: I know Chris, its the software for use with clustering. I guess that previous post was worded poorly.
    Hsphere is more than just a control panel, its a complete automated hosting solution. No need to purchase a billing system or support system. Its ability to handle multiple servers is just another benefit.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,971
    Quote Originally Posted by HC-Sam
    That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. People don't want a linux 101 lesson, they want web hosting and it's the host's job to make it as easy as possible for them to do what they need to do.

    EDIT: I know Chris, its the software for use with clustering. I guess that previous post was worded poorly.
    If their main concern is ease of use, then why would they have a need to worry about performance, unless you know they can afford quad-core 8gb ram etc...? I mean isint the thread about cluster and dedicated servers? Isint one of the main reasons for a cluster based system is for the need to perform better than a single machine?

    You cant choose between a cluster and dedicated server for the ease of use/management, but rather for performance of the overall system.

    So you have to be clear in mind if you are targeting a client base with performance needs or on the ease of use.

    Sure, you can definitely custom make a control panel for a cluster, but how many hosts actually make it. And if you TRULY want ease of you for the customers and not limit performance, custom panel is the way to go.

    Get this straight in your head, when you implement a cluster, complexity is right behind, and why you want such a complex system of clusters? For performance.
    Last edited by HNLV; 01-18-2007 at 02:46 PM.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha
    May be I should expand on what I mean .

    You cant choose between a cluster and dedicated server for the ease of use/management, but rather for performance of the overall system.

    So you have to be clear in mind if you are targeting a client base with performance needs or on the ease of use.

    Sure, you can definitely custom make a control panel for a cluster, but how many hosts actually make it. And if you TRULY want ease of you for the customers and not limit performance, custom panel is the way to go.

    Hsphere is allready created, lots of hosts use it. No need for anything custom. I also think clustering is a little more than just performance, it also allows to spread the services over multiple servers to help eliminate any single point of failure. If your web box is down, chances are your mail box is up and you cp server is too. A clustered setup wouldnt leave you dead in the water if you single server setup got hacked or had a hardware failure.
    Last edited by Chris_M; 01-18-2007 at 02:46 PM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,971
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_M
    Isnt the whole idea of a control panel to make hosting easier for the masses? Why shouldnt a host offer a control panel? I would think that by not having a cp, you would eliminate a large protion of potential buyers. And lets not forget that most hosts dont even offer shell access.
    Well if the people who are buying the hosting realize that its the performance that matters than the need of your own use then they will come to know control panels are just holding them behind.

    Say for example a client want to run a mp3 downloads website. For those kind of websites a client who thinks right realizes that the performance of the site is more important than the ease of creating an email address or setting up a database.

    But the main problem is that a lot of people are not willing to do that, that is where those "large masses" that you are talking about are. Those "large masses" who go for the control panel do not think about performance, at least until their website keeps going down everyday.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    2,971
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_M
    Hsphere is allready created, lots of hosts use it. No need for anything custom. I also think clustering is a little more than just performance, it also allows to spread the services over multiple servers to help eliminate any single point of failure. If your web box is down, chances are your mail box is up and you cp server is too. A clustered setup wouldnt leave you dead in the water if you single server setup got hacked or had a hardware failure.
    Well, by eliminating SPF, you increase the performance. When I mean performance, I am not talking about single processor or a single box, I am talking about cluster as one system without SPF.
    Email: info ///at/// honelive.com

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    here, there, where?
    Posts
    4,102
    Quote Originally Posted by HC-Sam
    Which companies are reliable providers for clustered solutions, and what are the advantages / disadvantages of clustered servers vs. dedicated servers for shared hosting?.
    For fully managed clusters, Cartika would be your best bet. You can, however, do clusters on your own using a dedicated server provider, but if you go hsphere you'll want a hsphere expert as it can be quite confusing at times. Also, with clustering, or at least hsphere's clustering, you can use any datacenter and do multiple datacenters (though it would be best to have database and webs together on the same network for speed.) So, for example, you can the control panel server in one dc, the webs and database in another, and mail servers in yet another. Now, to me, that's a true cluster as there's no common point of failure between them (except the webs and database but they go hand and hand anyhow.)

    With single server tons of services setups like cpanel, it forces you to need the powerful expensive servers as it needs resources for all services. However, as Anantha points out, with clustering you don't need powerful servers for all servers (though I'd personally recommend powerful ones for database and mail servers.) You could run webs on P4s with dual cores and have barely any loads and have database and mail on Xeons or Opterons. Once you have the powerful database and mail servers, all you need is the lesser web servers. In the end, you'll have more "little" servers and have a couple powerful servers that will handle a lot of customers at once.
    -Steven | Cooini, LLC
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" -Aristotle

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Anantha
    Well if the people who are buying the hosting realize that its the performance that matters than the need of your own use then they will come to know control panels are just holding them behind.

    Say for example a client want to run a mp3 downloads website. For those kind of websites a client who thinks right realizes that the performance of the site is more important than the ease of creating an email address or setting up a database.

    But the main problem is that a lot of people are not willing to do that, that is where those "large masses" that you are talking about are. Those "large masses" who go for the control panel do not think about performance, at least until their website keeps going down everyday.

    Ok, I know this isnt about hsphere, but with hsphere, in a multi server setup, there is no overhead of the cp service, dns service, mail service or db services if the host has everything running on different boxes. You can still have the ease of use and all of the performance benefits.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    180
    All this talk about new control panel features to do clustering sounds great, but again, its darn complicated. I do not want to mess with any of this. Now, I am not a hoster. I do hosting for clients, but not retail. So my volume is low. For true high volume hosters, all this new technology makes sense. But for me, getting rid of a server has been great.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •