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Thread: Clustered vs. Dedicated
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01-17-2007, 11:28 AM #1Junior Guru
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Clustered vs. Dedicated
Despite all the startup hiccups, clustered hosting services are for real. I have been at mosso for months and I can tell you it is a much better fit for me than a server + plesk which I used for some time. Easier, more reliable, more technologies, etc. I do realize that if you have custom configuration needs you still need dedicated. My guess is over time, mosso will take care of this as well. What do you guys think about the future of dedicated vs. clustered systems?
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01-17-2007, 11:39 AM #2Web Hosting Rockstar
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Two totally different markets
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01-17-2007, 11:52 AM #3Junior Guru
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That's kind of stating the obvious, you didn't really answer his question(s).
I would also like to learn some more about this because I was planning on buying additional servers for my shared clients. However, clusters really do seem like the way to go.
Which companies are reliable providers for clustered solutions, and what are the advantages / disadvantages of clustered servers vs. dedicated servers for shared hosting?
Good topic, props. Hope to learn something.HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
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01-17-2007, 12:19 PM #4Junior Guru
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Sorry for the double post, but it is a bit too late to edit.
After reading more about clustering / Mosso, I think that clustering is very impressive, except mosso doesn't have cPanel ... which means you wouldn't be able to transfer your cPanel customers over to them.
I don't know how cPanel would work on a system like that.
Also, it would be very expensive to do this properly ... huge startup costs, configuration time, and all the other processes associated with it.
Then again, Mosso's network is huge. They have Windows clusters, Linux/PHP4 and Linux/PHP5 clusters, and PHP/MySQL/MS SQL/ASP are also in their own clusters.
I guess a shared host could setup a small cluster but I don't have any idea how that would work in a datacenter if you had your own rack.
Lastly, this is what the Mosso rep said to me:
Justin: We are not geared for full reselling, our target market is for designers and developers with the option to bill and support their clients
So as a web host, Mosso is not for me ... at least not in this point in time. Their system is very intriguing though.
EDIT: The true-hybrid system is amazing. With mosso and their clustering, you can have a .asp and a .php file in the same directory and run them both. Amazing.Last edited by Yeah_Buddy; 01-17-2007 at 12:27 PM.
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01-17-2007, 01:18 PM #5Web Hosting Master
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If you want to run your own cluster system on cPanel it'll take a ton of work and is probably not worth your time. I know 3Tera's Applogic has a cPanel template which can let you scale cPanel across more than one server. It would also let you load balance web servers and all that fun without the need for load balancers.
As far as I know right now they've added the ability to scale space across multiple machines and have it mirror the data to one other machine. Unfortunately right now they don't have SSL support or multiple IP support. So it would only work on one IP for all sites.
The second issue right now is as far as I know 3tera will not license the software to places that aren't in the need for large amounts of licenses. So right now you need to go through a place like TheGridLayer(LayeredTech) or some other similiar places. Of course these places offering the software are either insanely expensive or they simply are disorganized and do not even offer private grids (you are not sharing machines with others).█ Tony B. - Chief Executive Officer
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01-17-2007, 01:25 PM #6Aspiring Evangelist
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Originally Posted by HC-Sam
You can do that on a single server.... one of my servers is configured to serve up php, aspx and asp files....Rediscover online gaming Get Continuum / Subspace | Play Trenchwars
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01-17-2007, 01:40 PM #7Retired Moderator
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Just wait for Hsphere 3.0 to be released stable. You can spread all the services around and it supports load balancing for web/mail service. You can also sell linux or windows if the provider has a windows box in the cluster.
http://www.psoft.net/HSdocumentation...balancing.html
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01-17-2007, 05:50 PM #8Junior Guru
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Originally Posted by doc_flabby
So then among all the positives that accompany clustering, I also see some negative ones.HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
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01-18-2007, 09:38 AM #9Junior Guru
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Originally Posted by Chris_M
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01-18-2007, 01:14 PM #10Junior Guru
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Yeah but Mosso has one huge problem. I'd say most hosts use cPanel, and Mosso uses highly proprietary systems since their network is so unique. You would have a very hard time transferring clients back/forth etc.
What exactly are you using them for? Are you a web host or is this just for personal hosting needs?
HSphere is for web hosts that want to setup their own server clusters. I would never get HOSTED by HSphere but at some point I would like to host it.HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
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01-18-2007, 02:01 PM #11Vice Cheese
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These days, its better to have a shared hosting on a cluster with relatively low power intel P4 (or may be even Intel III) instead of one powerful server with AMD Opteron procs.
The idea is to eliminate a SPF (Single Point of Failure) when the loads increase.
My philosophy is that if you buy a server, only ONE client should be using it. None of those 300 customers per server bs, regardless of how powerful the server is. And obviously, if you have one customer per server it does not retain the shared hosting status.
Shared servers include VPS. VPS boils down to nothing but a shared hosting with root access and also prone to SPF.
But single clients can have high demands which cannot be sufficed by the likes of a single dedicated server, thus the need for load balancing or clustering, but thats a whole another story.
Depending on how you setup the cluster, they actually share the resources, that is one major advantage. If you have 3 physical servers in a cluster, its ok to have more than 3 clients, since the resources are shared, having 300 clients is not going to have a negative effect as long as nothing is out of the ordinary.
And one more thing I would like to add is the fact of our reliance on control panels in linux environment way too much. Many many people come to linux and expect the host should offer a control panel for ease of use. I mean, if a client is incompetent to use shell, then he or she should look for Windows, they have remote administration and everything.
So my suggestion is not to choose between cluster and dedicated because of your reliance on control panels.Last edited by HNLV; 01-18-2007 at 02:11 PM.
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01-18-2007, 02:14 PM #12Retired Moderator
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Originally Posted by HC-Sam
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01-18-2007, 02:14 PM #13Junior Guru
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Originally Posted by Anantha
EDIT: I know Chris, its the software for use with clustering. I guess that previous post was worded poorly.HostingChoice Web Hosting and Consulting Services
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01-18-2007, 02:19 PM #14Retired Moderator
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Originally Posted by Anantha
Isnt the whole idea of a control panel to make hosting easier for the masses? Why shouldnt a host offer a control panel? I would think that by not having a cp, you would eliminate a large protion of potential buyers. And lets not forget that most hosts dont even offer shell access.
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01-18-2007, 02:21 PM #15Retired Moderator
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Originally Posted by HC-Sam
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01-18-2007, 02:40 PM #16Vice Cheese
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Originally Posted by HC-Sam
You cant choose between a cluster and dedicated server for the ease of use/management, but rather for performance of the overall system.
So you have to be clear in mind if you are targeting a client base with performance needs or on the ease of use.
Sure, you can definitely custom make a control panel for a cluster, but how many hosts actually make it. And if you TRULY want ease of you for the customers and not limit performance, custom panel is the way to go.
Get this straight in your head, when you implement a cluster, complexity is right behind, and why you want such a complex system of clusters? For performance.Last edited by HNLV; 01-18-2007 at 02:46 PM.
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01-18-2007, 02:43 PM #17Retired Moderator
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Originally Posted by Anantha
Hsphere is allready created, lots of hosts use it. No need for anything custom. I also think clustering is a little more than just performance, it also allows to spread the services over multiple servers to help eliminate any single point of failure. If your web box is down, chances are your mail box is up and you cp server is too. A clustered setup wouldnt leave you dead in the water if you single server setup got hacked or had a hardware failure.Last edited by Chris_M; 01-18-2007 at 02:46 PM.
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01-18-2007, 02:53 PM #18Vice Cheese
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Originally Posted by Chris_M
Say for example a client want to run a mp3 downloads website. For those kind of websites a client who thinks right realizes that the performance of the site is more important than the ease of creating an email address or setting up a database.
But the main problem is that a lot of people are not willing to do that, that is where those "large masses" that you are talking about are. Those "large masses" who go for the control panel do not think about performance, at least until their website keeps going down everyday.Email: info ///at/// honelive.com
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01-18-2007, 02:58 PM #19Vice Cheese
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Originally Posted by Chris_MEmail: info ///at/// honelive.com
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01-18-2007, 03:11 PM #20Knowledge is all
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Originally Posted by HC-Sam
With single server tons of services setups like cpanel, it forces you to need the powerful expensive servers as it needs resources for all services. However, as Anantha points out, with clustering you don't need powerful servers for all servers (though I'd personally recommend powerful ones for database and mail servers.) You could run webs on P4s with dual cores and have barely any loads and have database and mail on Xeons or Opterons. Once you have the powerful database and mail servers, all you need is the lesser web servers. In the end, you'll have more "little" servers and have a couple powerful servers that will handle a lot of customers at once.-Steven | Cooini, LLC
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01-18-2007, 03:18 PM #21Retired Moderator
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Originally Posted by Anantha
Ok, I know this isnt about hsphere, but with hsphere, in a multi server setup, there is no overhead of the cp service, dns service, mail service or db services if the host has everything running on different boxes. You can still have the ease of use and all of the performance benefits.
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01-21-2007, 10:12 AM #22Junior Guru
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All this talk about new control panel features to do clustering sounds great, but again, its darn complicated. I do not want to mess with any of this. Now, I am not a hoster. I do hosting for clients, but not retail. So my volume is low. For true high volume hosters, all this new technology makes sense. But for me, getting rid of a server has been great.