View Poll Results: Display advertising forums post counts in user profiles?

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  • Yes. Display the advertising forums post counts. Yes.

    82 58.16%
  • No. Do not display the advertising forums post counts. No.

    59 41.84%
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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clueless_Medic
    Today I wanted to offer a commission to any designers among your members to for a small re-design / integration job on one of my sites with the prospect of a larger scale CMS re-design & coding project sometime in the near future. I probably will not at this rate because I don't see myself reaching the 10 post mark within the next few weeks.

    I am sure that you are not going to starve because I didn't place an order with you but do you really want to turn people like me away?
    No, of course we don't want to turn you away, but we do want to encourage you to find ways you can contribute to the community as a whole within non-advertising discussions first.

    Regardless, your thread would fit under the Employment opportunities category, one of the advertising threads that does not carry a minimum restriction. Post away!
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    WHT doesn't make a dime on your advertisement. They don't get paid by either the contractor, or the advertiser in most cases. In some (about 0.01%) cases, the advertiser will purchase a "sticky thread".
    Possibly but there is the indirect benefit that isn't being counted. The ecosystem benefits & I count the ad as a missed opportunity, not a cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_pm
    No, of course we don't want to turn you away, but we do want to encourage you to find ways you can contribute to the community as a whole within non-advertising discussions first.
    People post when & where they feel they can contribute something of value. Forcing participation reduces the likelihood that the post is of value & increases the need for moderation. I prefer Slashcode / Scoop style karma modifiers myself but imagine it is not something that can be retrofitted here.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirius
    I think we need to realise that this isn't a democracy. This is a business and the business will make decisions as it see's fit. I think it's great that they are asking the community's opinion on the issue, but the bottom line is, it's a business.

    There are times when the communities opinion (or poll) is going to drive change and there are times when, even if the communities opinion (or poll) doesnt agree with it, there's going to be change.

    Sirius
    The Community Leaders clearly have their own agenda and it's your job to follow that or risk termination so I don't expect you to agree with me.

    On that note, it seems that this poll was an attempt to rally support for an overwhelming "No" which did not happen so it evolved into a "well this isn't a democracy."

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    The Community Leaders clearly have their own agenda and it's your job to follow that or risk termination so I don't expect you to agree with me.

    On that note, it seems that this poll was an attempt to rally support for an overwhelming "No" which did not happen so it evolved into a "well this isn't a democracy."
    Actually, I've never felt I need to agree - I'd be surprised if any liaison felt that 'need'. Hell, I disagree quite a lot and I'm still alive and kicking Just because we're green doesn't mean we stop being members and loose the right to have our own opinion (publicly, privately, whatever ).

    The poll was an attempt to gauge reactions to the change after a week, after previous polls over 1.5 years had showed us of people being in favour of the change. Maybe it’s a different set of people voting (those who lost lots of posts, and those who didn't don't care?), maybe people aren't seeing the benefits? Who knows

    Everything has some sort of effect (including this poll) - it's simply the degree and weight of that effect which matters. And yes, when it comes to community and moderation benefits we're seeing vs a poll which is approximately even 50/50, it's not hard to see which one will win.

    At least IMHO.
    Alasdair
    Long time ex-host, ex-billing software owner/developer/support staff. Recent lurker.

  5. #105
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    The Community Leaders clearly have their own agenda and it's your job to follow that or risk termination so I don't expect you to agree with me.
    Yes, but he's not the ONLY one who's said this. Of course, it's easy to dismiss other opinions just to try to prove your own point and agenda.

    On that note, it seems that this poll was an attempt to rally support for an overwhelming "No" which did not happen so it evolved into a "well this isn't a democracy."
    Ahhhhhh, so, wait, let me see if I get this right.
    The thread (read vote) has been tied since day one, or close to it.
    For over a week now, this tidbit has been IN this thread:
    The poll is great, but even if the poll turns out one way, and the mods think it best to go another, well, they'll take it that other way, and rightfully so.
    And you're just now complaining, claiming it's something other than it is?
    Looks like the one with the agenda isn't the mods, it's you.

    Yes, the mods asked for our opinions, and NO no (public) decision has been made yet. Even if it ISN'T what you want to hear, or what the poll states, remember (as I've said since the 9th), this is NOT a democracy.

    Public forums don't work "publicly", the major decisions are made by the few (the moderators). They do what is best for the masses, in order to
    A> keep the forum running smoothly
    B> make their job as easy as possible

    This does both, so, what are YOU complaining about here?

    BTW:
    The poll is hardly reflective of WHT's userbase. There are less than 100 votes, out of HOW many members? Barely 0.1 percent of WHT's membership has voted
    Last edited by whmcsguru; 01-19-2007 at 04:22 PM.
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  6. #106
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    Forcing participation reduces the likelihood that the post is of value & increases the need for moderation.
    This is a different subject entirely. Whether or not having a minimum requirement before posting an advertisement isn't what's at stake. This is about whether advertising forum posts should contribute to that total or not. Whether they do or don't, the participation is still "forced," though it's not so much forced as it is incented. Feel free to open this discussion as a separate issue if you think it's worth discussing though!

    You can still post in the advertising forums, regardless of how many posts have been counted for you.

    The Community Leaders clearly have their own agenda and it's your job to follow that or risk termination so I don't expect you to agree with me.
    Oh man, if this was true, I would have lost my position a long, long time ago
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  7. #107
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    Put them back on, we leave posts within the review section of the adverts area and critically give information about people's websites, as many do to ours. We can understand it is an easy way to build up your post count, so maybe, as it is still an advertising forum, put a limit before people can post in it. Solves on of the problems.

    If you feel the remarks are spamish, therefore delete, remove or throw them rather than saying that everyones posts are spammish in those areas.
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  8. #108
    well i think post is a post so all posts should be counted regardless of the section ....there shouldnt be any segregation between posts....what if those members who like there post counts to increase start posting in other sections just to increase there post count ....???
    If this whole thing is intended towards members contributing to all sections(which seems like) then the idea is really good but PERHAPS execution is not... I feel it should be done but there should be some other way to do that......
    AKDesigner
    We Design Your Dreams
    ---------------------

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by InnovativeDesigners
    well i think post is a post so all posts should be counted regardless of the section ....there shouldnt be any segregation between posts....what if those members who like there post counts to increase start posting in other sections just to increase there post count ....???
    If this whole thing is intended towards members contributing to all sections(which seems like) then the idea is really good but PERHAPS execution is not... I feel it should be done but there should be some other way to do that......
    Do you have any suggestions on how we could do it?

    While contribution to other sections is important, other reasons behind it include allowing us to banish other rules forever (like no pm me/pm sent), reduce posts designed to bump post-counts ('nice design', 'cool, I like it', etc..) and also reduce the list of things we need to look after there.

    If anyone has a suitable alternative that meets some/all of those aims, we're all ears
    Alasdair
    Long time ex-host, ex-billing software owner/developer/support staff. Recent lurker.

  10. #110

    Cool

    well trust me those who are habitual of posting like 'Pm Sent' or 'Pm Me' would still do so even if that post is not counted i used to post that reply without having intentions of increasing my post count when i was new at wht and got a warning . trust me after that i never did that... so these rules should not be banished or perhaps cannot be...

    if someone posts that 'Nice Design' or something like that once in a week or so then i think thats fine.His intentions should not be questioned as may be he really likes the effort of fellow member and want to praise him. Infact that comes to sort of contributing to that particular section. advertisment section also needs contribution from other members

    As far as suggestions or suitable alternative is concerned its a really tricky question let me think over it mate...
    AKDesigner
    We Design Your Dreams
    ---------------------

  11. #111
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    Let me take a moment to give you all the benefit of the doubt that this was discussed for so many years, supported by so many people, and has solved so many problems.

    The fact is that it was not supported by a *clear* majority of WHT members and now that such is appearant you still do not wish to revert the decision. This seems to support the possibility of a pretentious attitude on behalf of management brought on by WHT's clear dominance of the web hosting forum industry.

    If this isn't a democracy I don't see why you all chose to start a poll in the first place.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by tickedon
    Actually, I've never felt I need to agree - I'd be surprised if any liaison felt that 'need'.
    I was a Community Liason for about a week and was "terminated" after disagreeing with a Community Leader in PM.

    The only one's who are still "employed" from same hiring group as I are the ones that clearly supported Community Leaders on all points which was made evident from the forums and ticket system for which I was privy.

    I would go into greater detail but I get the feeling that even this much will cause a bit of tension or even a few points or a "72 hour pass."

    My point is I strongly disagree that we're all allowed to say whatever we wish and I really don't think that staff who frequently disagree with Community Leaders have much job security so I must respectfully take everything said by "green titles" with a grain of salt.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    I was a Community Liason for about a week and was "terminated" after disagreeing with a Community Leader in PM.

    The only one's who are still "employed" from same hiring group as I are the ones that clearly supported Community Leaders on all points which was made evident from the forums and ticket system for which I was privy.

    I would go into greater detail but I get the feeling that even this much will cause a bit of tension or even a few points or a "72 hour pass."

    My point is I strongly disagree that we're all allowed to say whatever we wish and I really don't think that staff who frequently disagree with Community Leaders have much job security so I must respectfully take everything said by "green titles" with a grain of salt.
    well mate as you have experienced all that so you have the right to say all that based on that experience and if it really happened like that then all i can say that its not good.but i would like to mention that my personal experience in dealing with some of the mods has been quite good.
    AKDesigner
    We Design Your Dreams
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    I was a Community Liason for about a week and was "terminated" after disagreeing with a Community Leader in PM...
    We will have to disagree on that point.

    That wasn't it at all.
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue
    We will have to disagree on that point.

    That wasn't it at all.
    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you had a solid handful of reasons, but as they say "perception is everything" and it's my perception that my disobedience in PM and in the moderator forum was my E ticket out of there.

    I try not to be a trouble maker so this is pretty much all i'll say on the subject. On the whole your staff does good work.

  16. #116
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    Anyway,

    Are the post counts going to come back? Or is the current status the permenant decision?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    In many cases, it can mean a life/death thing as far as experience:
    Would you rather work with a programmer who has 10 posts or one who has 1000? Personally, I'd deal with the one who has 1000, providing, of course that those 1000 were valid posts.

    Post counts are a very valid first impression. That's not saying they're the ONLY thing that can be used for this, but they are a decent first impression.
    Maybe do away with post count and in its place have feedback scores like eBay, after each successful/unsuccessful transaction you can leave feedback etc..

  18. #118
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    I believe you're referring to vBulletin's Reputation function

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    I believe you're referring to vBulletin's Reputation function
    Yeah but no, because it would only be used for transactions. Not for reputation for posts etc..

  20. #120
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    They have another plugin for that too. Shouldn't be too difficult.

  21. #121
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    The fact is that it was not supported by a *clear* majority of WHT members and now that such is appearant you still do not wish to revert the decision. This seems to support the possibility of a pretentious attitude on behalf of management brought on by WHT's clear dominance of the web hosting forum industry.
    Not really. It's a simple benefits case. You do what's best for the community, and in every way, this works out better for the community. If the mods can spend less time on trivial matters and more time engaging in meaningful discussions, it's better for the community. If people stop disingenuous posting because there's no more incentive to do so, it's better for the community. If we can remove a rule or two regarding how people community (like the PM sent rule) and thereby make communications more natural for the community, it's better for the community.

    Having your post count drop is something people naturally won't like, but it doesn't affect anyone's ability to use the community. But I've yet to see an argument that shows anything other than this is the best thing for the community. I'm having a hard time seeing why people vote against doing what's best for the community in favor of having a larger number attached to their names, but people have that attachment. Maybe it's time for them to let it go, and allow what's best for the community to happen.

    If this isn't a democracy I don't see why you all chose to start a poll in the first place.
    For the same reason Gallup does polls that won't affect legislation. It's good to see where people stand and why. In some cases it will make a difference. In others, it won't. In this case, we have a poll where the opposing side barely edges out the supportive side (it still flip flops from time to time), but since there's no solid argument to counter the benefits to the community, the poll response has much less meaning than if there was a good reason to vote 'yes'.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by scribby
    Maybe do away with post count and in its place have feedback scores like eBay, after each successful/unsuccessful transaction you can leave feedback etc..
    I like this idea too!

    To keep the post count folks happy, maybe show them as "10+" "100+" "500+" etc., and let the member individually see his/her exact count. Maybe have a ceiling post count so if you post (for example) 10,000+ times it just shows the infinity symbol

    Still looks like a very close vote. I would have expected more votes from the community on such a "hot button" topic. Expected at least a couple hundred people to come and vote. There is still time, I suppose.
    If you have to operate your company behind the scenes or under a fake name, maybe it's time to leave the industry and start something fresh.

  23. #123
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    Just one of my observances since this was implemented.

    I randomly check a new member from the latest users in admin. Especially those with a few posts already. Many times their 5, 6 or seven posts is actually more when you check their posts. They may have started in the ad forums, saying nice design, PMed you or other fluff posts, then they realise that their posts aren't going up, so they move into the main forums and join in discussions

  24. #124
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    Cool! Thats really a good change

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon-e-mouse
    Just one of my observances since this was implemented.

    I randomly check a new member from the latest users in admin. Especially those with a few posts already. Many times their 5, 6 or seven posts is actually more when you check their posts. They may have started in the ad forums, saying nice design, PMed you or other fluff posts, then they realise that their posts aren't going up, so they move into the main forums and join in discussions
    So basically they're taking their mindless fluff from the advertising forums to the discussion boards.

    I see this fitting in one of two categories:

    1) The person is contributing to discussions and it shouldn't matter if they're contributin to advertising forums or discussion boards.

    2) Their posts are absolutely worthless regardless of where they're posting.

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