View Poll Results: Display advertising forums post counts in user profiles?

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  • Yes. Display the advertising forums post counts. Yes.

    82 58.16%
  • No. Do not display the advertising forums post counts. No.

    59 41.84%
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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon-e-mouse
    Yup! We are members also
    Wait so you guys are humans? I thought you all were robots programmed to keep WHT on its feet

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    The logic is pretty clear. First you want to do this to the advertising forums. Soon thereafter someone suggests removing the post count from say the lounge, and it will just keep snowballing as various folks decide that a certain forum "isn't contributing."
    This is an interesting slippery slope you present, except it ignores some very important things. The advertising forums decision was made with overwhelming support of the community in multiple discussions over the course of ~18 months. If the community wants to overturn this, IMHO it's going to have to present a whole lot stronger case than it has up to this point, especialy considering all the benefits we're seeing as a result of the decision (see below).

    The point is that the decision wasn't random, and it certainly wasn't done by the influence of a few people. There was a time the lounge didn't count toward post count. The community didn't like it and expressed solid reasoning behind the dislike, and post count is back in the lounge.

    No, removing post count from the advertising forums does not mean other forums will fall like dominos, as you've posited. Quite to the contrary has been proven on WHT time and time again already.

    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    No real good will come out of this aside from the 45% or so who don't participate in the advertising forums taking pride out of the "non-contributors" no longer having a significant post count.
    But a lot of good has come of it already - just read through this thread Forum litter has been reduced, rules members didn't like have been lifted, everyone still has access to everything they did before. A whole lot of real good already has come of it, plenty enough to justify it!

    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    The reason no one complains after asking about it is that they're afraid of being banned for contempt.
    That's a joke, right?
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  3. #78
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    No, it's not a joke. Many people are afraid to confront moderators about things they disagree with.

  4. #79
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    Judging by this, and other threads in Feedback, I don't think many members agree with you.

    You've spoke your mind within. Did some moderator cite you for contempt?
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  5. #80
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    Well I'm sure Jeff has a point there though, one would think three times rather than twice before confronting/ opposing on an issue against a positioned member.

    Anyway doesn't the poll show a lot of opposition?

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Engine
    Anyway doesn't the poll show a lot of opposition?
    One of the polls we ran on this subject showed a 2:1 ratio in favor of the change. That was a strong response!

    Regardless, the poll doesn't dictate policy. Good decisions for the right reasons dictate it. People will vote against the change because no one likes losing their post count, and that's fine. But when asked to consider the good of the community, given all the information available, I don't see how you can argue against the change.
    Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    No, it's not a joke. Many people are afraid to confront moderators about things they disagree with.
    I have confronted several moderators on issues and things i felt they were wrong in doing outside of threads so not in a public place and i have in 2 years never been banned for doing this.

    I think as long as you do it in a professional manor and not start arguments in threads they have no problem hearing opposition to there thoughts or actions on these forums.

    They are people just like us.
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  8. #83
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    Myself personally, I voted for 'Yes.' simply due to the fact that I am proud of the amount of posts I make () and would like to show that off (once I reach a couple thousand) *sigh* I don't even have one thousand anymore!

    Anyways, my personal opinion is being rather 'strict' on the content posted in the advertisement forums. I think one of THE biggest problems in those forums are the people that post 'Great design! Good luck' (I'll admit, I've done that before!). Clearly, those people are doing this only to increase their post count. Perhaps filtering those posts out would be something to consider.

    I don't know to much about vBulliten, but just like cuss words (they are replaced with '******'), perhaps any post that consists of something along the lines of

    Great design! Good luck with the sale.
    And/or different phrases related to that, could perhaps be censored out (either the user gets a pop-up warning stating that is not allowed, or the post is just automatically removed all together.

    But as far as actually posting advertisements go, I think they should most certainly count. I don't see a reason why they shouldn't count.

    Once again... that's my $00.2

  9. #84
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    I havent voted and I wont. The reason is simple. I dont know which way to go and honestly it doesnt bother me too much.

    I was eager last year to get my own subtitle (or whatever thats called), so I "needed" to have the posts ;-).

    I was not aware that such a discussion was coming up, but I do feel like honestly it doesnt matter so much for me if they count the posts within f.e Advertisment section or not.

    I was shaved down from 560 to now roughly 350, so that says it all I guess.
    I think its fully acceptable without the "extra" points. I would also have to accept if they take the subtitle back there are not many point of argueing left. After all its WHT's policy. Its fair enough that they listen to their users and ask for feedback.

    Perhaps what WHT should do is

    1) Offer f.e. the subtitle for a little fee if they are after money
    2) Add a community indicator showing the ratio between posting non-productive (f.e. advertisement) and productive posts in the several forums.

    I am aware that I just opened another can of worms probably ;-)
    Perhaps there will be no end to it.

    Just make a decision and go for it. In 50 years chances are that we will all look back and small at this ;-)
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  10. #85
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    i personally dont really care. as i dont really look at the post counts nor the user info on the postbit i normally just look at the content of the post.

    Thanks
    - James

  11. #86
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    I do not think post counts should be counted in the advertising forums. There are a fair amount of users who basically only post in there and do not contribute to the community.

    As far as the other things go, I really don't think this will spiral out of control and start cutting posts from every category.

    I can see the point of it and I think it is a good plan. Although I do hang around the template/design category a lot and I do make the occasional "great design" comments because I use it as a basis for inspiration

  12. #87
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    I'm fine with them not counting posts.

  13. #88
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    It doesnt matter for me
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    No, it's not a joke. Many people are afraid to confront moderators about things they disagree with.

    Well, confronting them does no good even when they admit they are wrong. They just close the complaint tickets and try to sweep it under the rug instead of dealing with it. Pretty sad if you ask me.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_M
    Well, confronting them does no good even when they admit they are wrong. They just close the complaint tickets and try to sweep it under the rug instead of dealing with it. Pretty sad if you ask me.
    Couldn't agree more. Things are pretty sad indeed when a moderator makes an error (only humans do that!), the error is acknowledged, and the issue is resolved. Pretty sad indeed.
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  16. #91
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    Yeah, closing the ticket without addressing all the questions is really resolving it.

  17. #92
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    only humans do that!
    And mods aren't human, c'mon, seriously, they're BOTS!
    Seriously though:
    Confronting mods about things that are disagreed with is FINE. I've done so before a time or two. Just remember that the MOD is right. No matter what, the mod is right. I don't say that to be disrespectful, in fact just the opposite.

    In the end, the mod IS always right. Whether you agree with them , or not, they are. Keep in mind that EVERY mod will have a different opinion too, so just because ONE mod says "hey, this is wrong" doesn't mean it is.

    Case in point:
    A few months back, I was "warned" for speaking of a company whom I've never been a customer (though I've had countless dealings with). I attempted to dispute the warning, and it remained valid. No worries, I looked at it as a company who didn't want to face the reality of what they offered

    Two weeks later, a MUCH better worded review got me in the same problem. This time, however, nothing came of it. Why? Because different mods will have different opinions.

    The mods aren't perfect, they're human. They do a THANKLESS job for donuts (if even that), and have to take crap from people like me on a daily basis. No thanks, been there, got the t-shirt, done that.

    The best way to deal with things? Do it PRIVATELY. Disagree all you want, but do it PRIVATELY. Don't raise a fuss , because that's only ASKING for trouble.


    Anyways, I fail to see how this is even on the original topic, anyways.
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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Walczak
    Wait so you guys are humans? I thought you all were robots programmed to keep WHT on its feet
    ^last week

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    And mods aren't human, c'mon, seriously, they're BOTS!
    ^today

    LOL, I agree with you!

  19. #94
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    What bothers me is that even if the vote turns out to be "Yes" the management will still keep it at "No" if they don't like the reasons for the "Yes."

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    What bothers me is that even if the vote turns out to be "Yes" the management will still keep it at "No" if they don't like the reasons for the "Yes."
    The Poll is not a criteria for changing the decision as one of the mods have already mentioned

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    What bothers me is that even if the vote turns out to be "Yes" the management will still keep it at "No" if they don't like the reasons for the "Yes."
    Then give the Community Leaders a likable reason, something that outweighs the improvements we've seen as a result of the change already.
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  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    What bothers me is that even if the vote turns out to be "Yes" the management will still keep it at "No" if they don't like the reasons for the "Yes."
    I think we need to realise that this isn't a democracy. This is a business and the business will make decisions as it see's fit. I think it's great that they are asking the community's opinion on the issue, but the bottom line is, it's a business.

    There are times when the communities opinion (or poll) is going to drive change and there are times when, even if the communities opinion (or poll) doesnt agree with it, there's going to be change.

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  23. #98
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    Im just glad we do have the advertising forums and are allowed to post in it. I dont see why people is so worried about one post a week anyway.
    As I mentioned in the other thread about this, Thanks for allowing us to advertise our services for free. Someone like me just really getting started on my own hosting business I do not have any advertising budget and this helps me tremendously.

    So you will never hear me complain about it, Im sure some other hosters feel the same way

  24. #99
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    As a newcomer (this is my first post here) I really have to ask this question:

    Is it the consensus among the site management that advertising is the least valuable activity on these forums?

    I have been visiting the site for atleast 4 years but since my primary activity isn't webhosting, had not felt the need to sign up earlier. I have however purchased hosting / hardware / services from advertisers & feel that it is to your benefit to have me spend my money with your members.
    Previously I had considered taking up the services of one of the server management companies or even hiring an admin on a part-time basis. I didn't see the point in posting 10 items of dubious quality in order to post a request & simply took my business elsewhere.
    Today I wanted to offer a commission to any designers among your members to for a small re-design / integration job on one of my sites with the prospect of a larger scale CMS re-design & coding project sometime in the near future. I probably will not at this rate because I don't see myself reaching the 10 post mark within the next few weeks.

    I am sure that you are not going to starve because I didn't place an order with you but do you really want to turn people like me away?

  25. #100
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    I am sure that you are not going to starve because I didn't place an order with you but do you really want to turn people like me away?
    WHT doesn't make a dime on your advertisement. They don't get paid by either the contractor, or the advertiser in most cases. In some (about 0.01%) cases, the advertiser will purchase a "sticky thread".


    Previously I had considered taking up the services of one of the server management companies or even hiring an admin on a part-time basis. I didn't see the point in posting 10 items of dubious quality in order to post a request & simply took my business elsewhere.
    Today I wanted to offer a commission to any designers among your members to for a small re-design / integration job on one of my sites with the prospect of a larger scale CMS re-design & coding project sometime in the near future. I probably will not at this rate because I don't see myself reaching the 10 post mark within the next few weeks.
    Both of these would have been fine, as IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong, someone ), Employment offers and requests don't count towards this 10 post rule. You can post in there from day 1, as long as it's 1 post a week (only).

    You're already well on your way to 10 posts (ok, you're on your way), contribute to the forums, in various other parts, you'll find yourself @ 10 in no time.

    From what I understand, the 10 post rule is there for two reasons:
    A> to keep the spammers out (which it's doing)
    B> To ensure that individuals who DO post in there have had a chance to familliarize themselves with the rules. Believe it or not, not everyone reads them when signing up.

    Oh, and Welcome to WHT!!!

    What bothers me is that even if the vote turns out to be "Yes" the management will still keep it at "No" if they don't like the reasons for the "Yes."
    As it SHOULD be. If this helps the mods do what they need to do, regardless of public opinion, then I'm all for it. Remember, as Sirius said, this aint no democracy. I believe I raised the same point a few posts back too. Regardless of what WE vote on, the mods will do as they see best. Like it or don't, they will do what THEY see best for the forums.
    Last edited by whmcsguru; 01-19-2007 at 02:55 PM.
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