Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 83

Thread: Windows Vista

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,608

    Windows Vista

    How many of here would upgrade their PC with the latest release of Vista from Microsoft.


    Hmm my answer would be YES, as Vista would make the system more secure. It is must upgrade for everyone.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Matrix
    Posts
    2,469
    My answer is NO. I will upgrade it only with new computer purchase. I am sure there will be lots of thing not compatable with windows vista and there will be lots of security problems. I think it will be vise to wait till jan 2008 till vista is fully stable and new supporting hardware is available (example dx10 cards). About security, don't use internet explorer, use firefox instead you will be safe from 90% threats on internet.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by mahinder
    I am sure there will be lots of thing not compatable with windows vista and there will be lots of security problems.
    How can you be sure?

    Yes, there are certain incompatibilities, but these are there actually due to the increased security.

    Quote Originally Posted by mahinder
    About security, don't use internet explorer, use firefox instead you will be safe from 90% threats on internet.
    Because of that we were already at patch level number 9 for 1.5 and now have already got the first patch for 2.0?

    IE 6 might had have its problems but IE 7 became much more secure.


    Somehow I have the feeling this thread will turn once again in a Microsoft bashing paradise .
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    1,235
    can't upgrade due to lack of driver and software support for certain video editing software, so no.
    <erno> hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,569
    Quote Originally Posted by mahinder
    I am sure there will be lots of thing not compatable with windows vista and there will be lots of security problems.
    Haha I love sheer ignorance!

    I'm using Windows Vista Ultimate on my Thinkpad and I like it so far. However, my laptop is pretty beefy (Core Duo 2 T7200 CPU, 2GB RAM) and I wouldn't dare try it on my older laptop.

    IBM fully supports 95% of the drivers on my Thinkpad so most things are fully functional. They're also constantly releasing new drivers to be fully compatible by the public release date of Vista.
    InterNich LLC
    Founder

    Bringing you PicResize.com (More than 95 million pictures resized since 2005)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,608
    There would be a lot of support for the drivers in the near future, and it is secure friend. SP2 of XP is better, but vista is the best outcome of microsoft.

  7. #7
    I will not be "upgrading." I'm not even running XP because of the required system resources. I have quite a few PCs running Win 2K and 2 running FreeBSD, the slowest being a celery 2GHZ w/ 256 MB ram. The fastest box I have is only an A64 2800+@ 2350MHz, 1 GB ram and a 6800GT. As it stands I would have to upgrade the hardware on all but one of my machines in order for them to run at an acceptable efficiency. I've also heard all about how secure Vista will be, but the same level of security can be achieved or bettered by tweaking a default Windows install. So though I don't agree that Vista is more secure for everyone, it will be more secure for people that just install the OS and nothing more.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    501
    Quite the opposite for myself. I have changed over my desktop and notebook to FreeBSD running Gnome. I am virtually Window-less except for my second desktop which still has a lot of my files I haven't transferred over yet. I have no intention of upgrading or buying Windows ever again.
    IE7 is nine years behind the standards or wrong.
    But it works in IE!
    "IE is a cancer on the web" -- Paul Thurott
    "Avoid hacker-bait apps like Internet Explorer" -- Kevin Mitnick

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,270
    I just got my email saying that i will get it the day it comes out. CAN'T WAIT!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,687
    For now, no thanks
    Why?
    Firstly, the licensing:
    Microsoft licensing clearly states that you may only transfer Vista licenses to ONE computer. This means that if you change your hardware, you're pretty much screwed. NOT really an issue for most people, but for most true techs (who update hardware constantly), it's not something that's the best solution.

    So, what happens after you use that one transfer? Most likely they'll force you to do the very same thing that XP does now, call home. This is all well and good, but when you have to reformat frequently (as I have to, once every few months), then it's more of a pain to deal with. They haven't even guaranteed they'll do something about that, just stated ONE TRANSFER ONLY.

    In the past, this means that ANY hardware change will invoke this "one transfer" limit. Kind of a stretch, wouldn't you say?

    Secondly, DRM:
    As someone who edits, transcodes, and tweaks video, this is a BIG problem for me. Their DRM has gone from small time PITA to HUGE here, and, again limits the usage of proper videos, as well as backing them up.

    Legally (in the US), I am entitled to ONE backup of my dvds, cds and the like, just like any other software or movie content. Why? Because media is fallible. DVDs aren't designed to last forever, they break. Just because they break, should I have to go out and buy ANOTHER copy of the same dvd? No, I shouldn't.

    Of course there are other reasons, but that's the biggest one (for me anyways).

    With VISTA, this will change. DRM is not a good thing, and has NEVER been a good thing. Again, of course, the only reason it's being included is Microsoft has sold out, gone from being a SOFTWARE manufacturer to a media sellout.

    Then, we have the licensing (cost) issues:
    Previously (up to XP), there were two editions
    Home
    Pro

    Now, Vista has released sublicenses under those
    Home Basic
    Home Premium
    Ultimate
    Professional

    God knows how many OTHER subversions there are

    Of course, each of these costs more money than the other one, starting at (most likely) $100 and working up.

    SO, in order to rip you off a bit more (aside from the ONE TRANSFER ISSUE), Microsoft has decided to split up licensing, and charge more for it.

    Vista's features may be decent, but I won't be migrating quite yet. Not until they get all the idiocy worked out.
    WHMCS Guru - WHMCS addons, management, support and more.
    WHMCS Notifications Extended - Add slack, hipchat, SMS, pushover to WHMCS !!
    Always looking for Linux, WHMCS, Support Desk work. PM for details

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chennai , India
    Posts
    4,608
    I know most of them wont upgrade until version 2.0 is released, but it is natural that you are afraid to get up with a newly one. but i have used the beta version and i feel that there is nothing worry.

    Liscensing problem , lot of them say about it that they cannot afford to buy. i agree at some cases but not all. see the subversions they have released and that shows the categories of people and their level of use.

    Thos who do not need pro version, then why pay for it and go with basic which would cost you less compared to pro. see just think as a developer and security administrator i know how tough it is to make a software, it is not an easy work going on there. so that makes to sound the money little high and tight liscense system in using it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    Microsoft licensing clearly states that you may only transfer Vista licenses to ONE computer. This means that if you change your hardware, you're pretty much screwed. NOT really an issue for most people, but for most true techs (who update hardware constantly), it's not something that's the best solution.

    So, what happens after you use that one transfer? Most likely they'll force you to do the very same thing that XP does now, call home. This is all well and good, but when you have to reformat frequently (as I have to, once every few months), then it's more of a pain to deal with. They haven't even guaranteed they'll do something about that, just stated ONE TRANSFER ONLY.

    In the past, this means that ANY hardware change will invoke this "one transfer" limit. Kind of a stretch, wouldn't you say?
    Well, in case you complain about possibly activation features, this might not be any different from the activiation scheme already in place for more than 5 years.

    I am not sure what you mean exactly with "transfer" but I doubt that the license allows you only one installation and you would need to purchase another one for every subsequent installation. If you referred to something like that, please provide sources.

    Otherwise, what changed?

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    As someone who edits, transcodes, and tweaks video, this is a BIG problem for me. Their DRM has gone from small time PITA to HUGE here, and, again limits the usage of proper videos, as well as backing them up.
    I agree that DRM is always an issue. But also here I cannot see major changes. DRM is already partly supported by old Media Players and while this was certainly extended in these shipped with Vista it will not apply to any media created, edited or transcoded by you.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,687
    Otherwise, what changed?
    We've gone from 3 separate hardware changes down to 1
    So, let's say for example that my hard drive goes back, can't be fixed. OOPS, there's my 1 hardware change.
    When it happens again? OOPS, well, so much for that now.

    But also here I cannot see major changes.
    You wouldn't consider forcing users to upgrade their monitor a major change? I would.

    According to the currrent way that things work in Vista (and I haven't tested this):
    The current DRM will not display protected video on older (even as old as 2 years old IIRC), non digital devices. This means that it's going to require a monitor upgrade for most individuals.

    Liscensing problem , lot of them say about it that they cannot afford to buy. i agree at some cases but not all. see the subversions they have released and that shows the categories of people and their level of use.
    It's not a matter of not being able to afford to buy it. I'm just not going to support the scheme of things as it is. Essentially, they changed things to be able to charge individuals more, nothing more.
    WHMCS Guru - WHMCS addons, management, support and more.
    WHMCS Notifications Extended - Add slack, hipchat, SMS, pushover to WHMCS !!
    Always looking for Linux, WHMCS, Support Desk work. PM for details

  14. #14
    There is no point in upgrading to Windows Vista straight away i heard its got alot of security issues and will have alot of bugs when it is released if you want to get it you should wait a few months to see thats what i am going to do.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    217
    Your wrong, people are mainly talking about the beta and rc releases and althought there are still some bugs that need attention it is a very good experience imho. The retail version you can change as many times as you like. The OEM version dies with the motherboard.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    We've gone from 3 separate hardware changes down to 1
    So, let's say for example that my hard drive goes back, can't be fixed. OOPS, there's my 1 hardware change.
    When it happens again? OOPS, well, so much for that now.
    Can you also provide some links to back these statements? Also if you consider carlgm's reply your statement doesnt seem to be really true.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    You wouldn't consider forcing users to upgrade their monitor a major change? I would.
    External devices were never part of the activiation process. I dont know how you came to this conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    According to the currrent way that things work in Vista (and I haven't tested this):
    The current DRM will not display protected video on older (even as old as 2 years old IIRC), non digital devices. This means that it's going to require a monitor upgrade for most individuals.
    Most individuals have protected video?

    There were/are ideas to integrate such protection mechanism into Vista but first they would need TPM to a full protection, second it would depend on drivers as well, third it would be DRM specific.

    As you mentioned you edit and transcode your own videos it would not affect you in any way therefore.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    It's not a matter of not being able to afford to buy it. I'm just not going to support the scheme of things as it is. Essentially, they changed things to be able to charge individuals more, nothing more.
    Then you will have a hard time to purchase software anyway, as many companies are moving towards individually tailored editions.

    Quote Originally Posted by punjabipredator
    There is no point in upgrading to Windows Vista straight away i heard its got alot of security issues and will have alot of bugs
    Exactly, you heard it. How can you give such a suggestion when you just heard some rumor about something at some point?
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,687
    Can you also provide some links to back these statements? Also if you consider carlgm's reply your statement doesnt seem to be really true.
    Google it. It's out there
    As far as carlgm's reply, it's incorrect as well.
    There are PLENTY of sites and discussions about this.

    This is essentially the same thing as the XP license now, stating that only 3 "computers" may be activated. Now , what does Microsoft consider to be a "computer"?

    Any time you change your hardware, it counts as a change. Once you've hit 4 major changes in XP (2 in vista), you are required to call home and talk to microsoft. This has been well discussed for eons now, it's nothing new.

    This doesn't ONLY affect OEM, it affects RETAIL AND OEM. The license makes no distinction between the two.

    External devices were never part of the activiation process. I dont know how you came to this conclusion.
    If you'll read the quote that is off of, you'll understand that is NOT an activation response, that is a DRM response. Microsoft is, in fact, forcing individuals to upgrade monitors to comply with DRM in Vista. If you don't , you won't get the DRM stuff.

    As you mentioned you edit and transcode your own videos it would not affect you in any way therefore.
    I didn't say I edit/transcode MY OWN videos, I stated that I edit/transcode video.
    In my case, I edit .tivo videos, transcoding them from one format to another. I'm not sure how they've DRM'ed their material, but IIRC it is in fact done.
    I don't do this to steal tv, in fact I don't publish anything I do. However, the format brought on by .tivo takes average 100-600m excess, depending on the length of the video (of course). I tend to compress that down , just to save space on the drive (and, admittedly get rid of those commercials ).
    Again, I don't know how they've setup DRM there, but IIRC they have done so.

    Then you will have a hard time to purchase software anyway, as many companies are moving towards individually tailored editions.
    This isn't a "tailored solution", this is a solution designed to fit Microsoft's pocketbook better, nothing more.
    WHMCS Guru - WHMCS addons, management, support and more.
    WHMCS Notifications Extended - Add slack, hipchat, SMS, pushover to WHMCS !!
    Always looking for Linux, WHMCS, Support Desk work. PM for details

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    Google it. It's out there
    As far as carlgm's reply, it's incorrect as well.
    There are PLENTY of sites and discussions about this.
    Stating something without having proof doesnt make it very credible.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    Any time you change your hardware, it counts as a change. Once you've hit 4 major changes in XP (2 in vista), you are required to call home and talk to microsoft. This has been well discussed for eons now, it's nothing new.
    Yes, thats nothing new.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    If you'll read the quote that is off of, you'll understand that is NOT an activation response, that is a DRM response. Microsoft is, in fact, forcing individuals to upgrade monitors to comply with DRM in Vista. If you don't , you won't get the DRM stuff.
    Not Microsoft is forcing you but the media companies. Whether DRM is a good thing or not is another matter (and I'd say too it isnt) but as long as you do not want to play DRM protected media you arent forced to anything. Of course if you want to play DRM protected media you need to comply to the rules made up by these companies. From this point of view, the extended (not introduced) DRM of Vista is even an advantage. Its your choice.

    Again, I am not fond of DRM either.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    This isn't a "tailored solution", this is a solution designed to fit Microsoft's pocketbook better, nothing more.
    This is your definition but doesnt make it truer. Hundred of companies offer tailored editions of their software with different feature sets. Microsoft already offers such packages since years and now extended it with Vista.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Montréal
    Posts
    19
    I already upgraded one of my PC's. I hate the warning pop-ups, every now and then!
    PalmHost - A Montréal based Web hosting company
    cPanel w/Fantastico & Online SiteBuilder (+200 royalty free website templates)
    Bilingual Support (English & French)
    30 Day Unconditional Money Back Guarantee

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,687
    Stating something without having proof doesnt make it very credible.
    I've already told you where to get all the proof you need. This has been discussed, archived, and hashed countless times, many of which can be archived and found @ google.

    Not Microsoft is forcing you but the media companies
    No, the media companies have nothing to do with Windows Media Player, or the core of the OS. This is strictly a Vista thing. Again, google it. It's been hashed out for quite some time now through various sites

    If this was the media companies, then this wouldn't be OS related. I don't know the exact specifications, but needless to say that quite a bit of DRM will require a monitor upgrade in Vista.
    WHMCS Guru - WHMCS addons, management, support and more.
    WHMCS Notifications Extended - Add slack, hipchat, SMS, pushover to WHMCS !!
    Always looking for Linux, WHMCS, Support Desk work. PM for details

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    I've already told you where to get all the proof you need. This has been discussed, archived, and hashed countless times, many of which can be archived and found @ google.
    It is you, not me, who has to post proof for his statements. After all, if it is that easy it wont take you much time.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    No, the media companies have nothing to do with Windows Media Player, or the core of the OS. This is strictly a Vista thing. Again, google it. It's been hashed out for quite some time now through various sites

    If this was the media companies, then this wouldn't be OS related.
    Of course it is the media companies! Who else?

    Microsoft only implemented DRM so that customers are actually also able to play such protected media. I havent heard of lawsuits from Microsoft about shared songs but only from RIAA. Again it is your choice to purchase such media or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    I don't know the exact specifications, but needless to say that quite a bit of DRM will require a monitor upgrade in Vista.
    For not knowing quite many things you made a lot of definite statements.
    Last edited by zoid; 01-09-2007 at 04:03 PM.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,687
    Of course it is the media companies! Who else?
    Who else? Well, let's see. It wouldn't be the people who put the damn thing together in the first place, now would it? MICROSOFT!

    MICROSOFT designed the OS
    MICROSOFT designed DRM
    MICROSOFT instituted this specific DRM requirement into the OS.

    This is an OS SPECIFIC THING. The "media companies" have absolutely crap to do with microsoft and their design teams. They don't work for them, don't code for them, don't design for them, they simply don't.

    The media companies are not in charge @ microsoft. They may have a minor bit of influence, but they do NOT tell Gates and crew (or anyone else) how to code. They simply don't.
    WHMCS Guru - WHMCS addons, management, support and more.
    WHMCS Notifications Extended - Add slack, hipchat, SMS, pushover to WHMCS !!
    Always looking for Linux, WHMCS, Support Desk work. PM for details

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Microsoft designed DRM? I suppose you like to joke. DRM has nothing to do with Microsoft but is available on numerous platforms and can be implemented in any way. Even the hero of the open source scene - Thorvalds himself - paid its tribute to it.

    I would recommend you inform yourself next time better before making such statements.

    By the way, I am still waiting for your links.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  24. #24
    Just a few points for your concideration:

    XP's DRM is software based
    Vista's DRM is hardware based
    XP has no hardware restrictions to speak of
    Vista will require a hybrid hard drives on laptops after June 2007 e.g. Microsoft's requirement not the Media companies
    XP allows any drivers
    Vista will only allow MS approved Digitally Signed Drivers, so no more tweaking drivers
    XP will output any video to any monitor or television
    Vista will require HDMI inputs on televisions as well as digital outputs (protective paths) on vid cards

    If you REALLY need me to post links I will, but don't be surprised when most of the links I post come directly from Major (legitimate press) hardware review sites as well as MS's FAQ @ Hardware Developer Central. Also keep in mind, if you require me to provide links to support my claims I will expect you to reciprocate with your own links.

    Personally, I think Vista is great...... for people like my 60+ year old mother and father. It took until service pack 2 (and a few fixes after that) for XP to become a decent OS. Vista will most likely take just as long, but then again this is only an opinion and I should mention the ONLY opinion in this post.

    Finally, Torvalds has NEVER sung DRM praises. Actually you worded that differently, you said he payed tribute. Semantics I guess, as he has repeatedly said he thought digitally sign drivers were a good thing for security. He has NEVER said the copy protection side of DRM was a good thing.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Matrix
    Posts
    2,469
    i don't understand simple thing, why the heck i need core 2 duo, 2 gb ram and all fancy hardware to run browser, email client, spread sheet and putty which used to work fine in year 2000 on my P3, 500mhz, 128MB RAM machine!. The worst is I have to through my current computer and bring in new one to run expensive vista software which costs more then ever before!. Also, symantec, zonelabs etc., products are not yet vista ready. why hurry ! Security in Vista !!! Its bull. It provides more security control for administrator and not neccessarly provide security from torjons, spywares and viruses from internet.

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/secur...l?nav=rss_blog

    While Microsoft's next version of its operating system -- Windows Vista -- technically doesn't hit retail stores until Jan. 30, security researchers have already uncovered a set of fairly serious security holes that could expose customers to attacks. Last week, instructions for taking advantage of a Vista flaw to potentially seize control over computers running the new software were published online. Microsoft said it also was investigating rumors that this exploit was previously offered for sale in the hacker underground.
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=402

    vista content protection system is total vaste.
    http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt
    Disabling of Functionality
    --------------------------

    Vista's content protection mechanism only allows protected content to be sent
    over interfaces that also have content-protection facilities built in.
    Currently the most common high-end audio output interface is S/PDIF
    (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format). Most newer audio cards, for example,
    feature TOSlink digital optical output for high-quality sound reproduction,
    and even the latest crop of motherboards with integrated audio provide at
    least coax (and often optical) digital output. Since S/PDIF doesn't provide
    any content protection, Vista requires that it be disabled when playing
    protected content [Note E]. In other words if you've sunk a pile of money
    into a high-end audio setup fed from an S/PDIF digital output, you won't be
    able to use it with protected content.
    there are tons of things like that, just go ahead and read it. I don't say one should not upgrade to VISTA because windows users have to do it one day anyway but why hurry when you can ovoid VISTA?

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Top Secret
    Posts
    11,687
    The only thing you've got me on here is Microsoft designing DRM, and that was a misstatement, nothing more.

    DRM has nothing to do with Microsoft but is available on numerous platforms and can be implemented in any way.
    So, MICROSOFT isn't to blame for putting a MICROSOFT implemented scheme into play? C'mon now, THAT is a load of crap. MICROSOFT (through Vista) is requiring individuals to upgrade their monitors in order to view certain DRM. End of Story. This has NOTHING to do with "media", it has EVERYTHING to do with Microsoft and how they chose to implement it.



    By the way, I am still waiting for your links.
    The links were provided quite some time ago. If you're too lazy to click on them, that's your choice, but they're there, they contain all the proof that's needed.

    I'm out of this one, I've got much better things to do than argue with a microsoft fanboy who doesn't know what he's talking about.
    WHMCS Guru - WHMCS addons, management, support and more.
    WHMCS Notifications Extended - Add slack, hipchat, SMS, pushover to WHMCS !!
    Always looking for Linux, WHMCS, Support Desk work. PM for details

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    Vista's DRM is hardware based
    Only if the hardware supports it, which most does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    Vista will require a hybrid hard drives on laptops after June 2007 e.g. Microsoft's requirement not the Media companies
    Could you please go into detail? Hybrid drives? After June?

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    Vista will only allow MS approved Digitally Signed Drivers, so no more tweaking drivers
    Only the 64 bit version.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    If you REALLY need me to post links I will, but don't be surprised when most of the links I post come directly from Major (legitimate press) hardware review sites as well as MS's FAQ @ Hardware Developer Central.
    Yes, I would like to ask you for these links.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    Finally, Torvalds has NEVER sung DRM praises. Actually you worded that differently, you said he payed tribute. Semantics I guess, as he has repeatedly said he thought digitally sign drivers were a good thing for security. He has NEVER said the copy protection side of DRM was a good thing.
    Digitally signed drivers are something else than DRM. I did not say Thorvalds praised DRM but he paid tribute. May I quote
    DRM is Perfectly OK with Linux
    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6034964.html
    http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2003042401126OSKNLL
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  28. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    The only thing you've got me on here is Microsoft designing DRM, and that was a misstatement, nothing more.
    Well, apparently there were a lot of misstatements from your side.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    So, MICROSOFT isn't to blame for putting a MICROSOFT implemented scheme into play? C'mon now, THAT is a load of crap.
    Something else apart from bad language?

    I never said Microsoft is not responsible for its DRM implementation. Of course it is. But thats not the point. DRM is an annoying issue which was introduced independently of the platform because of pressure of the media companies, but abuse this general problem to state some unfunded accusations against Microsoft.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    The links were provided quite some time ago. If you're too lazy to click on them, that's your choice, but they're there, they contain all the proof that's needed.
    Where have they been provided. I ask you again, prove your statements. Especially if it is as easy as you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by linux-tech
    I'm out of this one, I've got much better things to do than argue with a microsoft fanboy who doesn't know what he's talking about.
    Escape, the typical reaction of people without arguments. I asked you several times for proof of your statements and nothing else. You always refused to provide them which leaves as only option that you arent having any.

    I suppose the true fanboy is you.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    17
    I havent read anythign about Vista at all! I realise I am most likely lacking in the department of that

    Is 2GB RAM enough to run Vista well? I heard that you should have 4GB on your system otherwise you wont have enough.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar
    Is 2GB RAM enough to run Vista well? I heard that you should have 4GB on your system otherwise you wont have enough.
    Thats far from true. With all bells and whistles Vista will require more resources and better (or more modern) hardware than XP (especially a powerful graphic card if you want to run the new user interface with all features), but you can configure it to work like XP.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    17
    Okay thats good news. I will install it on my laptop soon then.

    I really want to check it out, all I have seen it is on a VPS that I set up a while ago and logged in through RD

  32. #32
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by haggggler
    Vista's DRM is hardware based

    Only if the hardware supports it, which most does not.
    And if the hardware doesn't support it than you will not be watching/listening digital media like you can now. No hardware support means if you get to use the media at all it will be down sampled to analog quality.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by haggggler
    Vista will require a hybrid hard drives on laptops after June 2007 e.g. Microsoft's requirement not the Media companies

    Could you please go into detail? Hybrid drives? After June?
    Hybrid Drives

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by haggggler
    Vista will only allow MS approved Digitally Signed Drivers, so no more tweaking drivers

    Only the 64 bit version.
    While you are correct that the x86 platform will CURRENTLY accept unsigned drivers, you must be signed on to the OS with administrator privilages. Expect that to change.

    Digital Signatures for Kernel Modules

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by haggggler
    Finally, Torvalds has NEVER sung DRM praises. Actually you worded that differently, you said he payed tribute. Semantics I guess, as he has repeatedly said he thought digitally sign drivers were a good thing for security. He has NEVER said the copy protection side of DRM was a good thing.

    Digitally signed drivers are something else than DRM. I did not say Thorvalds praised DRM but he paid tribute. May I quote

    Quote:
    DRM is Perfectly OK with Linux

    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6034964.html
    http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2003042401126OSKNLL
    May I quote Torvalds from the second article, the one where you quoted the title.


    In short, it's perfectly ok to sign a kernel image - I do it myself indirectly every day through the kernel.org, as kernel.org will sign the tar-balls I upload to make sure people can at least verify that they came that way. Doing the same thing on the binary is no different: signing a binary is a perfectly fine way to show the world that you're the one behind it, and that _you_ trust it.
    And since I can imaging signing binaries myself, I don't feel that I can disallow anybody else doing so. Another part of the DRM discussion is the fact that signing is only the first step: _acting_ on the fact whether a binary is signed or not (by refusing to load it, for example, or by refusing to give it a secret key) is required too.
    He's referencing drivers and ver. 3 of GPL. Nowhere does he mention anything about his approval or even acceptance of DRM for copy protection/restriction of media.

    Now if you require more acurate infomation I believe not even Bill Gates himself could sway your opinions.
    Last edited by haggggler; 01-09-2007 at 06:12 PM.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    And if the hardware doesn't support it than you will not be watching/listening digital media like you can now. No hardware support means if you get to use the media at all it will be down sampled to analog quality.
    And? So Vista will make it actually possible to view DRM protected media which you could not view otherwise. I really cant see what you are complaining about.

    Whether DRM is good or not is a competely other topic (as I already said twice) and should be addressed to media companies and their associations like RIAA.

    At the end it is your choice to purchase DRM protected media.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    Whats bad about hybrid drives? I would rather call it a big advantage over current systems!

    Also you are wrong with your statement that Vista requires them? The actual truth is that manufacturers applying for a certification will need to ship their products with hybrid drives in order to receive it. I'd say this is a great incentive to make this technology popular.

    Please get the real facts before making wrong statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    While you are correct that the x86 platform will CURRENTLY accept unsigned drivers, you must be signed on to the OS with administrator privilages.
    Are you kidding, are you actually saying one should be able to install drivers without having administrative privileges? Not to offend, but do you know what you are talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    Expect that to change.
    Speculation!

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    He's referencing drivers and ver. 3 of GPL. Nowhere does he mention anything about his approval or even acceptance of DRM for copy protection/restriction of media.
    I'd say
    DRM is Perfectly OK with Linux
    sounds rather like an approval, yes even acceptance. I am not saying he is happy about it, but thats not the topic as I already mentioned three times.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    Now if you require more acurate infomation I believe not even Bill Gates himself could sway your opinions.
    Actually accurate information would already suffice.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  34. #34
    I'm incline to agree with linux-tech, this just isn't worth the time when your consistantly taking information out of context. One point in fact, Hybrid Drives are technically NOT new i.e. Ram Drives. I've been running a similar setup for years, currently I have two 4gig Ram drives. In this senerio a hardware manufactor can not implement hard coded instructions that limit my access to media. That is the intended purpose of Hybrid drives, its part of the Protective Path Output or something along those lines.

    You also seem confused concerning Torvald's statement on DRM. Please READ and comperhend the whole article, not just the title. He specifically points out:

    In short, it's perfectly ok to sign a kernel image - I do it myself indirectly every day through the kernel.org, as kernel.org will sign the tar-balls I upload to make sure people can at least verify that they came that way.
    I have certainly posted way more than I intended, so while not covering all the topics I will end with this.

    And? So Vista will make it actually possible to view DRM protected media which you could not view otherwise. I really cant see what you are complaining about.
    With 2k and even XP I can view ANY protected media, not so with Vista. Granted I have to strip the copy protection, but at least I have that option. In short, I am VERY well versed concerning Computing Sciences and don't need MS "protecting me from the big bad. I'm quite capable. So again I will say I think the restrictions are great for people not familar with safe computing practices. Kinda like training wheel on a bike. For those of us who are qualified, we don't need a babysitter anymore. And as far as me not knowing a little something about creating safe computing environments, I've been an administrator/developer at State Farm's NOC for the past five years. And though degrees and certs. really don't carry much water today I will say I retain a few.

    That last part is not meant as a boast, I'm simply trying to add a LITTLE validity to my points. After all, 20+ years working in the IT/IS/MIS field has imparted on me a broad range of knowledge, understanding and forethought that helps to see where tends are leading.

    In parting, a couple general quotes for the masses:

    Winston Churchill
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

    Albert Einstein
    The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
    That said, I'm out too.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Greensburg, PA
    Posts
    8

    Windows Vista

    As a generic response to many of the comments made in this thread, please CONFIRM that what you're saying is accurate and not base statements on rumor or hype.

    Now, to give an idea of where I'm coming from, I've been running Vista x64 since it was in the beta phases. If any of you have a Conexant AC/Link Audio device and are running Vista x64, then the driver that you most likely downloaded (with the certificate and installation instructions) was initially posted at PlanetAMD64 after I created it. So I have a fairly good idea of what I'm talking about here.

    In regards to DRM:
    People have blown the DRM in Windows Vista completely out of proportion, not just here but all over the net. Windows Vista will NOT disable your video card if it is not considered "protected", instead Vista will downgrade the quality of the audio or video in the background by downsampling the media and then upsampling it to make it appear to the software to be at the delivered quality instead of the degraded quality at which it is being shown. That's basically it. Of course, the only real protected media under the restrictions available now would be HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, neither of which are particularly feasible in most computers right now anyways. All things considered, I'll probably just buy a set-top box anyways. They're cheaper, unaffected by drivers and all of the DRM stuff for the most part, and they're better for the task because they're designed for it.

    In regards to hybrid drives:
    Let's make sure we all understand what is going on with the "hybrid drive". A hybrid drive does not have flash memory for the purpose of installing an operating system, applications, or anything else for that matter. All that a hybrid drive requires is a 50MB area of flash memory that can be read at 16 MB/s and written to at 8 MB/s. Most hybrid drives actually incorporate more than this, upwards of 1GB, but that is cycled through in smaller segments (say, 128MB), to increase the overall lifespan of the flash cache. Also, it is only a requirement for the Vista Premium logo certification, it is not a requirement for the Vista Premium Experience.

    In regards to signed/unsigned drivers:
    Windows Vista x64 requires that kernel-mode drivers be signed in order for them to be loaded. Note the kernel-mode, as opposed to user-mode, drivers. This means that many drivers will load despite being unsigned because they do not need to communicate directly with the kernel. Things like USB drives, network cards, or printers will use user-mode drivers, and these will therefore not affect the average user because you won't need to install kernel-mode drivers all that often unless you're a member of the enthusiast community. Even if you need an unsigned kernel-mode driver to load, you can always use the WDK to generate a test-signing certificate and then enable "Test Mode" and sign the drivers yourself. All in all, once you have the WDK downloaded and installed you can sign a driver in less than 15 minutes; it's not all that hard either.

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    1,569
    Hi guys,

    I just wanted to chime in on a few things. I have all the versions of Windows Vista and have tried out Business and Ultimate.

    @Linux-tech: If you don't know what you're talking about, please stop typing. Only rubbish is coming out of your mouth. PLEASE GET THE LATEST INFORMATION

    The Windows Vista licensing is just like Windows XP. Microsoft WAS going to release the one computer transfer scheme, but that was months ago...maybe ever over a year ago. The licensing scheme now is just like Windows XP. You're allowed to install the O/S after the full removal from the original computer. Any hardware changes will just require a phone call to Microsoft (JUST like Windows XP).

    Please Linux-tech, stop passing on your crap here.
    InterNich LLC
    Founder

    Bringing you PicResize.com (More than 95 million pictures resized since 2005)

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Under Your Skin
    Posts
    5,875
    Quote Originally Posted by Nich
    Hi guys,

    I just wanted to chime in on a few things. I have all the versions of Windows Vista and have tried out Business and Ultimate.

    @Linux-tech: If you don't know what you're talking about, please stop typing. Only rubbish is coming out of your mouth. PLEASE GET THE LATEST INFORMATION

    The Windows Vista licensing is just like Windows XP. Microsoft WAS going to release the one computer transfer scheme, but that was months ago...maybe ever over a year ago. The licensing scheme now is just like Windows XP. You're allowed to install the O/S after the full removal from the original computer. Any hardware changes will just require a phone call to Microsoft (JUST like Windows XP).

    Please Linux-tech, stop passing on your crap here.
    I agree with you on linux-tech.... but I think he is pre-wired to say stuff like that against Microsoft.

    But it was only two/three months ago that Microsoft reversed itself on the transfer scheme.

    Will it work like XP? Hmm... I'm not sure if we will have that much freedom, only time will tell. To be honest, I'm a little concerned. Not much, but a little. It also depends on how they operate the disk that come with pre-builds, as you can get them for reduced rates or transfer them over from computers you might build once they (computer from sony/emachines, HP, etc) go bad.

    I think it is a little early to make a final determination either way.
    Windows 10 to Linux and Mac OSX: I'm PARSECs better than you. Eat my dust!!!

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    I'm incline to agree with linux-tech, this just isn't worth the time when your consistantly taking information out of context.
    Can you point out where I took something out of context? Exactly, nowhere.

    However when someone is asking you for real facts you are immediately backing out, not without insulting him/her previously. Just like the poster you quoted did. A very professional and credible behaviour!

    I asked you several times to provide proof of your statements but instead of the promised links
    If you REALLY need me to post links I will, but don't be surprised when most of the links I post come directly from Major (legitimate press) hardware review sites as well as MS's FAQ @ Hardware Developer Central.
    you gave exactly one link which actually proved you wrong instead of supporting your statements.

    I find it ridiculous when people are making some statements and upon being asked for proof the only thing they do is to back out but not without making even more absurd accusations. If you do not have knowledge and experience about/with a certain subject and cannot provide actual facts you should better not try to participate, yet make comments which can be proven wrong within seconds. You could make a fool out of yourself.

    Obviously I am not alone with this observation if you look at the replies of KB3LWJ and Nich who seem to have actual real world experience with the subject of this discussion, unlike you.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    I'm simply trying to add a LITTLE validity to my points.
    You could have done this many times but you obviously chose not to.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


  39. #39
    OK, I'm just to new here to let this go, but I will try to keep my post short in order to steer it back on topic maintaining some semblance of order.

    For the sake of a forum debate, I believe I've "mostly" presented all the initial linkage/supporting information for every claim I've made. I might ad that I think I've done this quite civilly. Barring semantics, there are even a couple points, like Vista's activation being similar to XP's I agree with. Though I seem to remember there being a difference with one of Vista's releases requiring activation every 180 day or something along those lines? Maybe the XP's VLK equivalent?

    Anyway, at the risk of hijacking this thread and for that I apologize, I'm asking the more senior forum members for thier input. Simply, have I misstated anything here or made any claims I've not at least pointed toward a source for validity? Can the same be said for other posts? I submit this for the board's review, thank you and have a good night.

    haggggler

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    5,068
    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    I believe I've "mostly" presented all the initial linkage/supporting information for every claim I've made.
    You provided one link in total which however actually disproved your statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    I might ad that I think I've done this quite civilly.
    I am not sure whether I would view it as quite civil to call someone fanatic and insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by haggggler
    Simply, have I misstated anything here or made any claims I've not at least pointed toward a source for validity?
    Please see above.
    Sitemeer.com - Is your site up?
    Multi-Location Service Availability Check ● yes, we do HTTPS & IDN!


Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •