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  1. #1
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    ModernBill to WHMCS Switchover

    Has anyone switched from MB to WHMCS successfully? If so, did you use the import tool and how thorough was it? Any "gotchas" I should be aware of?

    I've been looking at WHMCS and really liking what I see so far. I'm afraid to make the leap though, because we have A LOT of customer records that would need to be moved over. We've basically been using MB for the past 5 or 6 years and this would be a huge jump for us.

    Also, any complaints about WHMCS?

    Thanks!

    --Tina
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  2. #2
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    Since you use MB for 5-6 years, I wonder why you leave it? This is a big change, so must be carefully with it!
    Tommy Tran - tommy @ vinax.net ::: VINAX, LLC ::: http://vinax.net ::: Since 2004
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  3. #3
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    Price and client-end user friendliness. Lack of support from ModernBill in the last couple of years has really jaded me against them as well.

    Also, just playing around with the WHMCS demo - it looks like navigation is very speedy. With MB, I click a link and wait for it to process the request a little longer than I'd like. MB also has several known bugs, which we've always just worked around. From talking to the sales rep and looking at their forums, WHMCS doesn't have those bugs.

    --Tina
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  4. #4
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    Also, just playing around with the WHMCS demo - it looks like navigation is very speedy. With MB, I click a link and wait for it to process the request a little longer than I'd like.
    Probably has more to do with the server your hosting it on [and I'm really not referring to hardware] rather than the application itself. You mentioned that you have a lot of customers, so you probably have a large database as well - this can reduce speed. I'm sure if you throw a big DB at WHMCS you will notice a drop in speed (as opposed to a demo with 0 or a negligible amount of "customers").

    I haven't played with WHMCS but in my opinion this would probably be a downgrade in terms of features [though nothing too significant] but perhaps an upgrade in support, stability [less bugs], I guess. Have you looked at any other billing systems? www.ubersmith.com comes to mind for a solution that is more comparable to ModernBill.

  5. #5
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    We are actually running several instances of Modernbill and one of those installs only has about 30 client records in it. It runs almost as slow as the one we have with 100s of client records. I don't think its a server issue, as (until recently) we had it running on one of our P4 2.8 w/1 GB RAM dedicated boxes with nothing else on it. While not a hugely powerful server, it certainly should be able to handle a billing system like ModernBill.

    I've looked at ubersmith and have also used it from a client's point of view. I didn't like it, for the price.

    When you say that WHMCS would probably be a downgrade from MB, which features are you referring to? I think I've poked around it enough and it seems like it actually has more features (like affiliate script and more robust helpdesk). What am I missing?

    --Tina
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  6. #6
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    FWIW, I use WHMCS and found it easy to import my accounts into. I have submitted a few tickets and the script is authored by a helpful chap called Matt who still looks after the support himself.

    He is very knowledgable and helped me initially transfer my clients from WHM Autopilot to WHMCS....IMHO, this is a top script

  7. #7
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    MB is so heavy to load. WHMCS looks nice and not heavy as MB. Personally, I also don't like MB. However, Have you look at this link? http://www.whmcs.com/switchingguide.php

    They have a script for you to convert MB to their system. So you can try to convert and test it around to make sure that all functions work correctly. Then switch it over!
    Tommy Tran - tommy @ vinax.net ::: VINAX, LLC ::: http://vinax.net ::: Since 2004
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  8. #8
    WHMCS is not a downgrade from modernbill. WHMCS is better than Modernbill + Kayako

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ServerVina
    MB is so heavy to load. WHMCS looks nice and not heavy as MB. Personally, I also don't like MB. However, Have you look at this link? http://www.whmcs.com/switchingguide.php

    They have a script for you to convert MB to their system. So you can try to convert and test it around to make sure that all functions work correctly. Then switch it over!

    Yeah, I've already been talking to Matt. If we decide to migrate over, we'll have him do all of the work.

    --Tina
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nafadya
    WHMCS is not a downgrade from modernbill. WHMCS is better than Modernbill + Kayako
    That is a personal opinion, a very big personal opinion since there are hundereds of features supported in the combination you listed that aren't in WHMCS.

    You seem to forget all the features Kayako has.

    As for speed, etc... I expect your still using MB 4. I would say the same for the front end user friendliness.

    It's all a personal choice, but there are features that Kayako has that I flat won't give up and there are things in MB that I would rather not lose personally.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSI-Larry
    It's all a personal choice, but there are features that Kayako has that I flat won't give up and there are things in MB that I would rather not lose personally.
    Thank you, Larry. Can you list some of the features you would lose?

    --Tina
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  12. #12
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    All I can say is I applaud your choice.

  13. #13
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    Many of the ones I was thinking are Kayako, but there are others:

    1.) Team Scheduling - This is something we are using since most of our local employees even work from home.

    2.) We also use the todo list in Kayako for this purpose.

    3.) If you use Kayako LiveResponse you would still need to have this from kayako.

    4.) RSS news feeds as we use these to pipe information around our sites.

    Those are the ones I can think of from Kayako.

    As for the ModernBill features we won't give up:

    1.) Plesk integration. I've been through enough with Plesk integration that I am not about to jump into a company who is barely starting it.

    2.) Full AR Recievable front end. We have actually built a system for our MS SBA that converts these tables directly into our AR in the accounting software. It took less time than any QuickBooks integration I have seen.

    3.) Integration with SSL Factory as we do resell SSL Certificates.

    Those are the ones that come to mind at the moment. The biggest turn for us was the Plesk integration + the integration into our accounting software.

  14. #14
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    Thanks Larry. That puts my mind at ease, since we don't use any of those features.

    Anyone else?

    --Tina
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  15. #15
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    The other thing I didn't mention was integration. I've reviewed the site and information here and other places. Unfortunately unless WHMCS has completely open code it doesn't have the integration features ModernBill does.

    No matter what Linux-Tech says integration can't be achieved with a few lines of PHP Code.

    We are in the process of building some things that we are integrating into ModernBill for tracking our VPS & Dedicated Server clients. These couldn't be "easily" done with WHMCS without direct help from the developer if all my research is correct.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by XSI-Larry
    That is a personal opinion, a very big personal opinion since there are hundereds of features supported in the combination you listed that aren't in WHMCS.
    Noep I think you dont know WHMCS very well . I advice you to setup and play it.

    1.) Team Scheduling - This is something we are using since most of our local employees even work from home.
    If you go to the WHMCS Forum you can see that Matt is listening all of the feature requests and he can easily make this in the new version.


    3.) If you use Kayako LiveResponse you would still need to have this from kayako.
    there are better and cheaper ones for live support

    4.) RSS news feeds as we use these to pipe information around our sites.
    Also WHMCS has RSS feeds.

    Kayako can be a better choice if you will install it stand alone and you dont need a billing script.But WHMCS is better than MB+Kayako (integration) on all ways. It is a complated solution for Hosting Companies.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nafadya
    Noep I think you dont know WHMCS very well . I advice you to setup and play it.

    Kayako can be a better choice if you will install it stand alone and you dont need a billing script.But WHMCS is better than MB+Kayako (integration) on all ways. It is a complated solution for Hosting Companies.
    No matter how you put it, it is still a personal opinion that you believe it's better because I don't.

    And my not believing it is better is my opinion, just like you believing it is better is yours.

  18. #18
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    Just to add this is also the wrong forum. It belongs in software.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSI-Larry
    The other thing I didn't mention was integration. I've reviewed the site and information here and other places. Unfortunately unless WHMCS has completely open code it doesn't have the integration features ModernBill does.

    No matter what Linux-Tech says integration can't be achieved with a few lines of PHP Code.

    We are in the process of building some things that we are integrating into ModernBill for tracking our VPS & Dedicated Server clients. These couldn't be "easily" done with WHMCS without direct help from the developer if all my research is correct.
    im not sure why your calling out linux-tech since he has yet to post here.

    But ya know what? its time someone called you out. Why do you GO OUT OF YOUR WAY, to post in every thread about MB and praise it so much, not only do you praise it but i have seen you start many arguments because you insist your right and wont listen to anyone else. You always mention your major project that none of us can understand (maybe because you wont tell us what it is)

    I have absolutely no problem with you but i cant see why you called out L-T, and i think you deserve the same. Seriously, every freaking MB thread you add your 2 cents to. If you don't work for them, and are not a reseller then why the heck do you care?

    And to Tina, i have been hosting for 4 years, i have used (in this order) WHMAP, modernbill, client exec & now WHMCS.

    Do you really need to know which me, my staff and my clients like the best?

    Well let me tell you. WHMCS.

    And 1 more thing, i love how people say "WHMCS screams start up"

    I guess i did just start out hosting..............4 years ago. You are also not new to this and your considering switching, hmm i wonder why. I bet just as many start up hosts are using WHMCS as the established one's.

    Tina, go with WHMCS you wont regret it. Just keep both system for a few weeks to make sure everything is converted properly and what not. You dont want to use some import script and then say "ok all done, get rid of modernbill"

    Although im sure you knew that. Good Luck!
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  20. #20
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    Sorry, you are wrong. I don't go out of my way to post in every thread about ModernBill. Only those on the top and those where people voice opinions as "fact".

    As for Linux-Tech I was commenting regarding his comment in another thread regarding integration which someone may have read.

    And actually we aren't considering switching. We reviewed it for a client and, while we were, reviewed it for our needs.

    The client when with MB.

  21. #21
    Well, here is my 2cents.

    I'm currently using Modernbill 5.x right now and though it is still kind of buggy, once fixed, it will be pretty powerful system for MY needs.

    While looking at this WHMCS software, it kind of scares me. While I am trying to run a long-term hosting business, I notice that WHMCS doesn't display his contact information such as address or phone. This tells me that he is most likely running from his home and that he also might carry a fulltime job on top of this "software project". I'd hate to wake up one day and find out that he now got a promotion on his REAL job and he pretty much leaves the WHMCS to die out. Where as Modernbill as we all know is a pretty large reputable company who can pretty much cater to small and large hosting companies needs. You can bet they have a LESS probability of going out of business than WHMCS.

    And will that info looked at, I choose to go with a company I feel that can be found if needed.

  22. #22
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    While I'm one of those who have used MB, and favor WHMCS over it - I think mm1250 has a very valid point and this was something that I noticed as well. But reviewing the forums, you notice Matt is very active with the community and the vast majority of clients praise the fast support. Development is also fairly regular. This put me a bit more at ease. Considering he handles most development and support, I doubt he's doing this part time but I might be wrong. I'm a bit surprised Matt can handle so much.

    What you mentioned is probably something Matt should address. Worse case scenario, if Matt drops off the planet, I can always fall back on MB. I would agree with you that MB5 could be great but there's just too many issues with how they've handled it so far that's alienated me as a customer and many others. There changelogs involve tons and tons of bug fixes and small feature additions that were supposed to be launched with 5.0 - I can only wait so long for something I can use in production. This was one of the reasons I switched to WHMCS.

  23. #23
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    doesn't have the integration features ModernBill does
    WHMCS uses Smarty templates. You can add any code to the client area you like. Matt provides many different "template" sets for server addons, payment gateways, etc which you can customise.

    Matt won't do a runner. I've used WHMCS near almost the first public version and I know the guy quite well from having a lot of conversation with him when I ran WHMCS Licenses.

    I don't feel like adding to the flame battle between users in this post. All I can say is WHMCS is highly customisable, just ask MACscr on the WHMCS forums. It's been used to store +6000 customers (cannot remember the highest figure) and the support is amazing. Matt is always adding features, bug testing, then releasing the stable version.

    Tina, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about WHMCS and any features you need more info about. Including details on v3.0
    Sean

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by XSI-Larry
    The other thing I didn't mention was integration. I've reviewed the site and information here and other places. Unfortunately unless WHMCS has completely open code it doesn't have the integration features ModernBill does.

    No matter what Linux-Tech says integration can't be achieved with a few lines of PHP Code.

    We are in the process of building some things that we are integrating into ModernBill for tracking our VPS & Dedicated Server clients. These couldn't be "easily" done with WHMCS without direct help from the developer if all my research is correct.
    I do have to call you on this one, at least in regards to MBv4.

    Integration for Modernbill is nowhere near straight forward NOR "easy". Take this from someone who has attempted to completely redesign the client side of the interface.

    Oh wait, you can't. Because not all the code is available and WILL not be opened up at all by them. Like the domain management pages... completely locked up.

    That's all before I even mention the horrible mishmash of html the thing spews forth. Our order form is (as far as I know now) now 100% xhtml 1.1, or at least close enough to pass the FF extensions tests.

    Our website uses MB sessions throughout for client and admin logins and access privileges, and integrates mb calls into different parts of the layout and the like, which often competely trashes database connections because of how MB is programmed. Yay.

    So, I think I've pretty well established a solid basis for the opinion I'm about to put forth...

    IF we had not already A) obtained fully owned licenses (for both our billing and support systems) and B) not spent 80+ hours customizing the current software packages used, THEN we would be /seriously/ looking at WHMCS as a possible solution. I don't know how much of the script is encoded, and I probably never will as our next stop will likely be a custom job done in house, and granted, how much (and of what) was encoded would play a huge part in further discussions on it, but we would at least be looking at it as a serious option.

    I don't know if that counts as a real recomendation on it or not, but we would at least entertain it as a possability, as the demos I've seen of it do look fairly promising.
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  25. #25
    I leaved Modenbill for WHMCS, i moved all my customers without problems......
    and I lke WHMCS it's very simple and it can do all that u need for an hosting company.

  26. #26
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    On the other hand, over the years the quality of support I've rec''d from ModernBill has been useless to laughable.

    So, I think I'd rather take my chances on a one-man show who seems to really care about his customers, answers my tickets and gives detailed replies. I'll assume that as his company grows he will add more support staff to handle the load.

    Anyone else have less than helpful replies from ModernBill? I get the feeling that they couldn't care less if I jump ship and move to another software. After all, they have zillions of other customers.

    --Tina
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  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    On the other hand, over the years the quality of support I've rec''d from ModernBill has been useless to laughable.

    So, I think I'd rather take my chances on a one-man show who seems to really care about his customers, answers my tickets and gives detailed replies. I'll assume that as his company grows he will add more support staff to handle the load.

    Anyone else have less than helpful replies from ModernBill? I get the feeling that they couldn't care less if I jump ship and move to another software. After all, they have zillions of other customers.

    --Tina
    I'm supprised you are having bad support with MB. Just the other day I had submitted a ticket to MB about an issue with invoicing. I was replied very quickly that asked for my phone number, and I got a quick call back where we did a glance session to fix my issues among some other stuff I had questions about.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm1250
    I'm supprised you are having bad support with MB. Just the other day I had submitted a ticket to MB about an issue with invoicing. I was replied very quickly that asked for my phone number, and I got a quick call back where we did a glance session to fix my issues among some other stuff I had questions about.
    Oh, I've always had good support when they wanted to take my money. I'm talking about technical support though.

    --Tina
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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Oh, I've always had good support when they wanted to take my money. I'm talking about technical support though.

    --Tina
    Thats what I meant. I was having some invoicing issues in my MB. It was tech-support I was dealing with that helped me fix my software issue.

    Whatever the case, if you decide to switch over to that other program, make sure you post how it works out for you.

    BTW, are you using MB v4 or V5?

  30. #30
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    Been using MB v4 (using MB for about 5 years total). I've heard too many horror stories about MB v5.

    --Tina
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  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Been using MB v4 (using MB for about 5 years total). I've heard too many horror stories about MB v5.

    --Tina
    You should try to install MB v5 in a non-production area for testing. I think they have the new v5.2 coming out very soon. I use the 5.1.3 now and have it interfacing with Enom, Cpanel, Authorize. So far all these interfaces work up-to-par and I don't really have any issues expect a few "small" bugs that MB says will be fixed in the next stable release.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm1250
    I don't really have any issues expect a few "small" bugs that MB says will be fixed in the next stable release.
    Yeah, exactly why I'm switching away from MB. I'm tired of random "small" bugs that will always be fixed "later".

    MB's software has always been okay...except for all the little hiccups that we've just come to accept. I'm talking about things that if you ask anyone with long-term experience with MB will say "Oh yeah. It does that sometimes." I'm tired of settling and, until WHMCS, there hasn't been an alternative that has given me much hope.

    --Tina
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  33. #33
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    Hi Tina,

    Not here to sway you one way or the other, but if you have an issue that you need help with along the way, feel free to put in a ticket with us as well - not just billing or install inquiries

    Also, be sure to check if Matt's import script is able to bring over individual invoices for each client. I've moved billing systems in the past (custom written, to Ubersmith, to CE, and back to Ubersmith, and of course MB), and one of the big issues was always individual client invoices. I hate losing client history and being forced to import clients with a "starting balance".

    - Wayne
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDotted
    Hi Tina,

    Not here to sway you one way or the other, but if you have an issue that you need help with along the way, feel free to put in a ticket with us as well - not just billing or install inquiries

    Also, be sure to check if Matt's import script is able to bring over individual invoices for each client. I've moved billing systems in the past (custom written, to Ubersmith, to CE, and back to Ubersmith, and of course MB), and one of the big issues was always individual client invoices. I hate losing client history and being forced to import clients with a "starting balance".

    - Wayne
    Wayne,

    I was in no way referring to support issues with your company. When ModernBill dropped the ball last month and completely ignored me, you guys actually came to my rescue. I think that actually says a lot about MB when I have to go to one of their resellers to get the help I need. In return, I have referred several people your way, including 3 that I know of who actually purchased licensing.

    Yes, Matt's import brings over invoices...and, surprisingly, even Paypal subscriptions can be ported over so that customers don't have to cancel and re-sign.

    --Tina
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Wayne,

    I was in no way referring to support issues with your company. When ModernBill dropped the ball last month and completely ignored me, you guys actually came to my rescue. I think that actually says a lot about MB when I have to go to one of their resellers to get the help I need. In return, I have referred several people your way, including 3 that I know of who actually purchased licensing.

    Yes, Matt's import brings over invoices...and, surprisingly, even Paypal subscriptions can be ported over so that customers don't have to cancel and re-sign.

    --Tina
    Oh, I understand 100%, and wasn't implying or misreading that you had said that. Just offering it up as another support outlet should you need it at some point.

    The full invoicing coming over, and the Paypal subscriptions is a plus for sure.
    Wayne Reavill. CEO,
    WebHostingBuzz.com

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    Also, any complaints about WHMCS?
    It used to store admin username and password in clear text in the cookie.
    The response from WHMCS convinced us to never even consider switching.
    ReflexNetworks means Happy Clients!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by andren
    It used to store admin username and password in clear text in the cookie.
    The response from WHMCS convinced us to never even consider switching.
    What was their response?

    --Tina
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  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by andren
    It used to store admin username and password in clear text in the cookie.
    The response from WHMCS convinced us to never even consider switching.
    That's odd. WHMCS only had cookies introduced in V3 for if an admin wanted to stay logged in for more than just their browser session. So there couldn't possibly have been an issue with an insecure cookie before the V3 BETA - and there hasn't even been an issue in the V3 BETA with them.

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  39. #39
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    9,675
    I wonder if andren is thinking of WHMAP?

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
    Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
    www.AEIandYou.com - - (WP Friendly - Premium Reseller Hosting and Cheap Dedicated Servers)

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    697
    Quote Originally Posted by AH-Tina
    What was their response?

    --Tina
    Matt is right - it wasn't cookies, it was the PHP session that stored the username and password in clear text.
    We pointed that out nearly a year ago - did you change that?

    Response was info is save, not to worry - also included the recommendation to move the status folder to another domain.
    ReflexNetworks means Happy Clients!

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