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  1. #1
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    Large Server Order - Advice?

    Hi community,

    I've got a large project in the works, and am going to need quite the configuration to go with it. My first year budget is roughly £200,000, including all and any start-up fees.

    I need a minimum of 16TB of storage, 2GBIT of connectivity, and high availability. I need for the machine to be located either in the UK, or the US. Quality of bandwidth also needs to be high - I want to be able to max out my 2GBIT 24/7 if I so desire.

    I'm also open to the option of a couple of machines with a NAS, this is essentially a large "media streaming project" - to be blunt.

    So, any ideas?
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  2. #2
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    I'm clear on the 16TB of storage and 2Gbps of connectivity. What kind of front-end machines are you going to need? What is your total hardware footprint? Do you need loadbalancers?

    Obviously the hardware you need will have a big influence on your MRC, but you should remember that you bandwidth alone might use up over 1/2 your budget.
    Caro.Net: Support is everything
    Offering High Quality Dell Dedicated Servers since 1995

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Chicago IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanashimi
    Hi community,

    I've got a large project in the works, and am going to need quite the configuration to go with it. My first year budget is roughly £200,000, including all and any start-up fees.

    I need a minimum of 16TB of storage, 2GBIT of connectivity, and high availability. I need for the machine to be located either in the UK, or the US. Quality of bandwidth also needs to be high - I want to be able to max out my 2GBIT 24/7 if I so desire.

    I'm also open to the option of a couple of machines with a NAS, this is essentially a large "media streaming project" - to be blunt.

    So, any ideas?
    Why not go for colocation? It would suit you better and be more cost effective.
    GigeNET
    Dedicated Servers + Cloud Servers + Colocation + DDOS Protection + IP Transit with FCP optimized routing
    Locations in Chicago Los Angeles and Ashburn

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Just get 400 low end machines with 80 GB drives and 1500 GB transfer @ $83 each. That will give you a massive parallel system with lots of fault tolerance. 32TB of data + 600 TB of transfer (almost a 2GBit connection maxed, but better imho) + 400 GB ram for around $400k / year

    I was using https://order.layeredtech.com/order/...y&productId=13
    as an example. You might be able to swing a deal w/ that many machines.

  5. #5
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    If you have a "project in the works", you do not need 16tb storage and 2gbit connectivity right off the bat.. Instead, I would start small and expand as needed. This way, you will save a LOT of money if this project does not turn out to be as big as you thought it was going to be.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR-Alex
    If you have a "project in the works", you do not need 16tb storage and 2gbit connectivity right off the bat.. Instead, I would start small and expand as needed. This way, you will save a LOT of money if this project does not turn out to be as big as you thought it was going to be.
    I agree, just make sure you have upgrade plans set, so you know your next step with the servers and bandwidth once things get going. I believe the key will be finding a company that you can work with closely and help you determine your needs as you go, etc.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by digdugdog
    Just get 400 low end machines with 80 GB drives and 1500 GB transfer @ $83 each. That will give you a massive parallel system with lots of fault tolerance. 32TB of data + 600 TB of transfer (almost a 2GBit connection maxed, but better imho) + 400 GB ram for around $400k / year

    I was using https://order.layeredtech.com/order/...y&productId=13
    as an example. You might be able to swing a deal w/ that many machines.
    He needs that money for the whole startup, not just the servers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    If you can demonstrate to the Data Center that you are serious and have the financial resources to pay for it then you should have no problem starting small and expanding. You probably want to discuss the specifics of how the Data Center is going to accommodate the growth. Likewise, you will need to provide a time frame for ramping up.
    Last edited by music; 12-26-2006 at 08:13 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR-Alex
    If you have a "project in the works", you do not need 16tb storage and 2gbit connectivity right off the bat.. Instead, I would start small and expand as needed. This way, you will save a LOT of money if this project does not turn out to be as big as you thought it was going to be.
    What makes you think that the OP hasn't thought it out or that it isn't a live site / service already that requires a new home?

    I suggest that you go for your second option of a couple of machines connected to a NAS. Look to colocation at a site that you can get to yourself for support or can hire local talent to manage it. If you do go with a rented dedicated server option you need to try a multihomed established host.

    Forget the 400 smaller machines the administrative overhead in managing that will cost > 200k / year.

  10. #10
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    16TB of storage isn't hard. You can get a 5U case with 24 750GB drives and run RAID-6 if you need it as a single volume, which will cost you something like $20,000. Or you can build multiple smaller volumes using cheaper drives. Or use SAN storage, FC or iSCSI. No problem.

    2Gb of dedicated Cogent bandwidth will run you something like $20,000 per month.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PixyMisa
    16TB of storage isn't hard. You can get a 5U case with 24 750GB drives and run RAID-6 if you need it as a single volume, which will cost you something like $20,000. Or you can build multiple smaller volumes using cheaper drives. Or use SAN storage, FC or iSCSI. No problem.

    2Gb of dedicated Cogent bandwidth will run you something like $20,000 per month.

    The i/o performance on a 24 disk raid-6 set with an areca or 3ware controller will suck.

    I doubt it'll be able to handle the load he'd be looking for.

    If you want cheap SATA storage you could pickup a number of Sivvy raidweb units which have quite good performance (16 x 750GB SATA Raid-6, 1GB cache on controller ~10.25TB at R-6 or take it to R-10 and net about 5.5TB)


    We have a client that does something similar and they utilize 2TB storage units and distribute the load so you get better overall i/o performance and better fault tolerance as your data is not only raid protected but further distributed on your network.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR-Alex
    If you have a "project in the works", you do not need 16tb storage and 2gbit connectivity right off the bat.. Instead, I would start small and expand as needed. This way, you will save a LOT of money if this project does not turn out to be as big as you thought it was going to be.
    Our initial requirements are 8TB and 1GBIT, no less then that. I want double our requirements, to allow for room for growth. We already have some large clients onboard, so it's already turned out big.

    Our budget is essentially $400,000 per year. Although this is just want we want it to be, we can cover up to double this per year if it is needed.
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  13. #13
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    Oh, another thing that is essential.

    Before I throw large amounts of money at a company, it'd be useful to have a trial server to test for 7 - 10 days with between 10MBIT and 100MBIT of connectivity (to test sustained speeds and stability).

    I've spent over $4,000 in the past 2 months testing, and I'm not willing to spend anymore only to be disappointed. I'm sure any SERIOUS provider can understand this, and will be willing to come to an agreement of some sort.

    If anyone has some useful information on this past point, please feel free to PM me.
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  14. #14
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    I am open to suggestions as to the infrastructure of the setup itself.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanashimi
    I am open to suggestions as to the infrastructure of the setup itself.

    If you dont' want to say anything more than "streaming media" feel free to PM me more details as to what type of streaming media, os, bitrates, etc you'll be using and I'll see what direction I could point you in. In terms of infrastructure.

    What is your target audience? What is the geographic location of said audience?

    Keep in mind in the delivery of certain kinds of streaming media proximity to the viewer is a key element. This is why many companies opt for the use of a CDN.

  16. #16
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    We have a client with a slightliy smaller streaming media requirement that is using multiple Dell 2950 servers with 6x500 GB SATA drives in RAID 10 for a net of 0.9 TB per server. With Quad GigE nics and 16 GB of ram per server it is a nicely matched system, with high reliability. They are connected with a Cisco 4948-10GE switch with a 10 gig uplink. Thus they have high 'head room' for large spikes in bandwidth; and a scalable solution for storage. We looked at several NAS solutions and determined that for a combination of speed and reliability it was better to go with multiple servers rather then a central storage. This is especially true with random access of random files for streaming media. Also, the software is setup to preference loading the most commonly used files into RAM.
    As pointed out previously you want to have the content in multiple locations and do geoIP to connect the users to the closest server

  17. #17
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    Hi WireSix,

    The geographic location of my target audience includes the US, Canada, UK and part of Europe. We also have a minimal base located over in Japan.

    The system is custom developed for use on Linux systems (Includes Ruby, Python, and a bit of PHP), all tied into a mySQL database backend.

    Bitrates vary greatly, from YouTube FLV quality to 2000kbit. This system will also serve on-demand archived downloads of content, and more besides.
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  18. #18
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    I've setup a Gmail account to discuss my requirements more fully, without disclosing everything to the public.

    <<snipped>>
    Last edited by anon-e-mouse; 12-28-2006 at 02:50 AM.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanashimi
    I've setup a Gmail account to discuss my requirements more fully, without disclosing everything to the public.

    <<snipped>>
    The whole project is failry standard - one thing to look out for is the cost of international bandwidth. Expect to pay up to 3-5x the price for comparible bandwidth in asia and eastern europe vs. the usa. We have done similar projects internationally and there are numerous pitfalls when designing the network.



    Best Regards,
    Last edited by anon-e-mouse; 12-28-2006 at 02:51 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanashimi
    I've setup a Gmail account to discuss my requirements more fully, without disclosing everything to the public.

    <<snipped>>

    Ryan,

    It would be worth your time talking to Dennis (see posts above) they have a good deal of experience in this area and they have the type of infrastructure already in place to handle exactly the type of things you are looking to do.
    Last edited by anon-e-mouse; 12-28-2006 at 02:51 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix
    Ryan,

    It would be worth your time talking to Dennis (see posts above) they have a good deal of experience in this area and they have the type of infrastructure already in place to handle exactly the type of things you are looking to do.
    I'm currently liasing with them and two other companies via email. Depending on how the test goes, will depend on my choice of provider. If all go well, I might aggregate between them all - it's undecided as of yet.

    Now, backup solutions for this much data - any ideas?
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  22. #22
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    How long do you plan to store the back up material?

  23. #23
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    Daily snapshots of the last three days.
    kanashimi internet services - Launching Q1, 2007.
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    - Your Data Is Mirrored Over 7 Datacenters!

  24. #24
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    WireSIX would be a great company to handle this sort of load.

    Also, because his bandwidth includes Telia, you would have great connection internationally.
    Last edited by JordanJ; 12-27-2006 at 08:38 PM.
    Jordan Jacobs | VP, Products|SingleHop| JJ @SingleHop.com
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  25. #25
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    I strongly suggest you email Ryan (WireSix) with your requirements. We have dozens of servers with them and have been 110% satisfied with not only his services...but his ongoing advice and suggestions are something we really appreciate.

    --Tina
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