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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Seattle
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    Corporate Colocation outages and billing dispute

    I have always been one to work out disagreements in private. We have
    numerous business relationships and rarely have I found it necessary
    to discuss negative aspects concerning them on this forum, however,
    this one deserves some airtime.

    About a year ago we contracted Corporate Colocation to provide us
    with resold Mzima transit, ASN direct at 600 W. 7th St. Suite 300
    (XO/NR Software, which is a complaint in itself but I digress..)

    Throughout our relationship with Corporate Colo the performance on
    our Mzima uplink was mediocre and did not match the performance
    results that I've seen on other parts of Mzima's network. This was
    disappointing but I was reluctant to point fingers at Corporate Colo
    in particular. On two occasions latency was so high that we received
    complaints from our customers and we contacted Corporate Colo and
    asked them to investigate. Neither complaint resulted in any
    definitive conclusion or action on the part of Corporate Colo. The
    latency simply 'resolved itself'.

    Generally speaking I have found Jon to be rather unprofessional at
    times and Victor to be quite the opposite thankfully. Nonetheless,
    our problem has not been resolved after numerous attempts.

    Corporate Colo performed maintenance on their routers and switches
    without notice, which caused our
    BGP to drop on three separate occasions. These outages lasted for
    roughly 24 hours, two days, and one week respectively.

    During the one week outage we issued a complaint via telephone and
    were advised that it was our responsibiltiy to notify them of any
    outages and they do not monitor our BGP session. (Never mind the fact
    that they had not notified us of network upgrades which might affect
    our BGP session). At this point I concluded that their service was
    not worth the premium price we were paying and we issued a
    cancelation request via email. In fact the first four email
    cancelation notices went unanswered and we were Billed for
    November-December service in spite of the cancelation attempts.
    Ultimately we were issued a 50% refund for October and were promised
    a full refund for November.
    - Show quoted text -

    Quote Originally Posted by Our e-mail
    From: John Blazek [ mailto:jwblazek@Private e-mail address censored]
    Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 6:08 AM
    To: [email protected]; [email protected];
    [email protected]; [email protected];
    [email protected]; [email protected]
    Cc: Jeffrey Lyon; Sheryl Hudson
    Subject: Re: Corporate Colocation Billing

    Dear Sirs,

    This service was canceled (effective 11/1/06) on 11/13/06 due to
    failure to perform as promised.

    We have given you three opportunities to cancel and refund the
    Dollar amount censored
    for this past month.

    I have neither the time nor the patience to repeatedly deal with this matter.

    You FAILED TO PERFORM and the outage was a direct result of your
    equipment modifications.

    REFUND our last payment and do not charge us for this month.

    CANCEL our service NOW.

    This is my FOURTH and FINAL notice. I am tired of being nice about this.

    If you continue to ignore our cancelation notices I will contact the
    credit company and issue a charge-back for all months where service
    was not delivered as contracted.

    Regards,

    John Blazek
    Quote Originally Posted by Corporate Colo's reply
    From: "Victor Goodman" <[email protected]>
    To: "'John Blazek'" <jwblazek@Private e-mail address censored>,
    <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>,
    <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>,
    <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
    Cc: "'Jeffrey Lyon'" <[email protected]>,
    "'Sheryl Hudson'" <[email protected]>
    Subject: RE: Corporate Colocation Billing
    Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 13:35:20 -0800

    John:

    Per your request, we will cancel your account effective immediately
    and refund the Dollar amount censored. For the record I do
    not have four 4 notices
    to cancel- this is the first that or Jon or Dima has in any email. I
    did the best I could to check.

    When we spoke, you indicated you were down and that was the first we
    knew of this outage. At that point you did not tell me you were going
    to cancel, otherwise I would have complied, you asked me to get find
    out what was going on, and get it corrected which I did. That is why
    the service is still on, once I was notified that it was still down,
    Dima tracked down the issue and we brought up the link, and you were
    live, I thus assumed all you needed was a service credit and all was
    okay, that was clearly my understanding- that explains my inaction.

    Since I did not hear from you till now, we continued to provide bandwidth.

    In any event the outage was a result as you say, of our equipment
    upgrade, and as far as I can see and tell from speaking with Dima, the
    reason is continued is as indicated above, failure to provide any
    notice- honesty we did not know you were down during that time.

    Dima did mention to me as an aside, that he spoke with you directly
    and you indicated a general dissatisfaction was Mzima.

    Nevertheless all those points are mute, we will cancel per your
    request and not bill you anymore.

    Best regards,


    Victor Goodman
    Corporate Colocation Inc.
    http://www.corporatecolo.com/cc
    AIM:victorbriang
    Direct Line 323-669-0822
    Cell 323-350-5596
    Toll Free 888-742-4147
    Despite this we never received November's refund and we were charged
    again today for December-January service!

    John attempted to contact Corporate Colo to try to resolve the
    problem. His explanation of the telephone call is as follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by John Blazek's e-mail to me on the matter
    When I mentioned charge back, he became irate and began screaming at
    me on the phone. He then wanted to know exactly where I was and said
    it was not a threat but that he would 'show up' wherever I was and we
    would 'work this out'.

    I told him we could 'work it out' by him refunding the Dollar
    amount censored
    for unused November-December service and
    refunding the unauthorized Dollar amount censored charge for
    December-January service.

    Had we actually 'cost' them anything, it would be different. However,
    Jon stated quite clearly that he would not refund the Dollar
    amount censored
    on Principle and it had nothing to do with their costs.
    Jon also made it clear that if we posted this on WHT he would be
    contacting an attorney. We never made that threat, but since I happen
    to have legal resources I figured it was best that this be made public
    and hopefully we can get our billing dispute resolved without having
    to resort to charge backs or legal action (on Corporate Colo's part,
    not ours).

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I should add that Jon has since offered to refund the December payment but not the November "on principle."

    We're still waiting for full refunds for both charges to consider this matter resolved.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    877
    This is troubling. I cancelled my colo there back in early October. They acknowledged the cancellation and I've lined up the $100 (!) to send the server back to me. They've charged me again for November (which they said they would since I cancelled after the first of October) and now for December even though they acknowledged the cancellation in early October. I am trying to get them to apply the December service charge to the cost of sending the server back but have not received an acknowledgment from either Jon or Victor.

    Hopefully email's getting through to them. I don't want to get hit with another month's service charge because they claim they never got the email. Strangely the bills always seem to come through right on time via email

    I have nothing really bad to say about their IP service, but the customer service end could use a bit of refinement. The few times I needed support it was erratic, but certainly not non-existent. It's clearly a small shop so I expect that to some degree (been there myself...).

  4. #4
    Why am I not surprised by this, Corp Colo has done some pretty shady dealings in the past which is why many businesses won't deal with them.

  5. #5
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    Location
    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossH
    Why am I not surprised by this, Corp Colo has done some pretty shady dealings in the past which is why many businesses won't deal with them.
    What's better is that they have not bothered to respond to this. We'll be putting in the chargebacks this week.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    What's better is that they have not bothered to respond to this. We'll be putting in the chargebacks this week.

    when you file those chargebacks I would provide a copy of their contract / TOS and explicitly outline their failure to perform and meet their contractual obligations. You'll have a much stronger case if you do so.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Fleet Street
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    Why am I not surprised by this, Corp Colo has done some pretty shady dealings in the past which is why many businesses won't deal with them.
    I'm down there all the time and haven't experienced/seen anything like this. Everyone I've talked to down there is thrilled with them...

    What's better is that they have not bothered to respond to this.
    This is a public forum - unless you've alerted them as to its presence, I highly doubt they even know it exists. I'll mention it when I'm there tomorrow.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossH
    Why am I not surprised by this, Corp Colo has done some pretty shady dealings in the past which is why many businesses won't deal with them.
    What are these "shady dealings"?
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
    Host Multiple Domains on Fast Australian Servers!!

  9. #9
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    Apr 2005
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    Oz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob
    What are these "shady dealings"?
    I remember a long thread about them, but I don't think it was "shady". In fact I believe it was the exact opposite once the true story emerged.


    Alex

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocebo
    This is a public forum - unless you've alerted them as to its presence, I highly doubt they even know it exists. I'll mention it when I'm there tomorrow.
    They might not admit to it, but they're very well aware that we have posted here. Jon had a discussion about it with my staff (read: when he threatened legal action if we posted).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix
    when you file those chargebacks I would provide a copy of their contract / TOS and explicitly outline their failure to perform and meet their contractual obligations. You'll have a much stronger case if you do so.
    A verbal "services not rendered" will suffice.

  12. #12
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    Nov 2006
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    I am also curious what these "shady dealings" are?

  13. #13
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    Atlanta, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRCCo Jeff
    A verbal "services not rendered" will suffice.

    and they'll respond to the chargeback with a blanket copy of the TOS blah blah blah and it'll bounce back and forth.

    better to go in with a loaded hand

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix
    and they'll respond to the chargeback with a blanket copy of the TOS blah blah blah and it'll bounce back and forth.

    better to go in with a loaded hand
    I'll continue to represent it until it goes to arbitration, really isn't a problem. The arbitration costs the merchant more than the dispute so unless they're insane it won't make it that far.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, Ca
    Posts
    51

    Response From Corporate Colocation, Inc.

    Sorry, that John from Black Lotus felt it necessary to go to the forum, he did indicate from the start of our discussions that if we failed to comply with his request, to waive notice he will "blast," it all over.

    We provided Mzima Bandwidth Only ( No Colocation) to Black Lotus per their request since Dec, 2005 at the Los Angeles Datacenter. During that year, I really never heard from John, a couple of times I saw him in the data center. We just said" hi."

    Here what I know of the event.


    A couple of months ago, we upgraded a switch, and it seems we failed to turn on a port as he is cross connected to and were not aware that he was not up.

    Since Black Lotus is BGP'd I guess they did not notice for a week, when they informed us.

    I immediately called our engineer, who brought up the session

    I told John from Black Lotus we would credit him two weeks, instead of the one week his session was down. He seemed happy with that.

    A few days later, he informed us he wanted to cancel.

    Per our MSA, Companies needs to provide thrity days notice-

    It seems what Black Lotus wanted was two things:

    1. Corporate Colocation should waive 30 days notice.
    2. Corporate Colocation should give $200.00 credit for one week of no service as the session was not up. 1/2 the months fee.


    We gave the $200.00 Credit plus refunded an additonal $400.00 which was autocharged in error after the notice period ended.

    In summary there were two issues, one Corporate Colocation should provide a credit per the downtime, and we did.

    The second issue is whether Black Lotus needs to honor our agreement to give notice, the session was up and they could have used the Mzima for that month.

    Frankly after John from Black Lotus said we if we did not comply, he would blast us, I felt it might have been easier to just void the agreement we had with them and let him cancel without notice. Others within Corporate Colo felt it was not right.

    The Mzima Bandwidth is of excellent performance.

    In the end, that is the story, and Black Lotus may not have honored its word to abide by the conditions of the contract, but it did honor it words to blast the story to WHT.


    Corporate Colocation is an honorable company, and our hundreds of clients can attest to that, we made the best effort to be fair in the matter- and thought long and hard, is it fair to wavie the notice from Black Lotus a Company, and require notice from other customers?

    This was not an issue of money but principle, we hope and tried to do the right thing- and John if free to call or write me anytime to discuss the matter, I had not heard from him in some time, perhaps he has been speaking to Jon-

    I am sorry this required a public discussion, there is a difference of opinion here, and both side can speak and have points.

    We do our best to please all our customers, we can always improve.


    Best Regards,
    Victor B. Goodman
    Corporate Colocation, Inc
    http://www.corporatecolo.com
    http://www.needaserver.net

  16. #16
    Victor,

    My experience with you personally, throughout our relationship, has been a positive one. And, until your post, I have had nothing but positive things to say about you.

    I understand that you want to save face for your company. I also understand that if you allow your son to post, he will do a better job of flaming Corp Colo than anyone else could. That puts you in a tough and unenviable position.

    However, I request that you stay in integrity.

    I did not 'decide to go to the forum' and I am not the one who posted here.

    More importantly, I don’t recall that this, or any other forum, was ever mentioned or discussed between the two of us. Your son was the one who brought up WHT in an effort to intimidate me and prevent any of this from going public.

    Sir, I do not make threats. Threats are for noisy people and I am certainly not that.

    I made what I believed was a fair request and allowed you to choose.

    You and I had an agreement to allow cancellation.
    You sent an email confirming that you would refund our Nov-Dec payment.
    You and I agreed that parting on good terms would benefit everyone involved and that, given your company dropped the ball on our service, it did not make good business sense to enforce a 30-day cancellation notice.

    It was not until your son got involved that things went badly.
    He overruled your decision and he lied to me in our initial phone call. Initialy he, too, agreed to refund the Nov-Dec payment and then weaseled out and only credited for the outage period.

    Victor, the email you sent speaks for itself. You acknowledged that Corp Colo dropped the ball and you agreed to refund the Nov-Dec payment.

    That email was sent prior to the Dec-Jan charge which you processed well after our cancellation and which Jon subsequently agreed to refund.

    When I called to discuss this, Jon screamed at me. He was rude, uncivilized and incredibly unprofessional on the telephone. He was completely out of control and as much as dared me to issue a chargeback as well as calling me a thief.

    We are asking you to refund a payment for a period during which you provided no service and for which, by Jon's own admission, you were not 'out' any additional expense. That hardly qualifies as 'stealing'.

    This was not an issue of money but principle, we hope and tried to do the right thing-
    Now even you state that you are refusing to refund on a matter of principle:

    and John if free to call or write me anytime to discuss the matter, I had not heard from him in some time, perhaps he has been speaking to Jon-
    That, too, is untrue. Once your son got involved, you directed me to him and said it was out of your hands. I spoke with you several times after that, and each time you directed me to speak with him and you were cc'd on EVERY communiation regarding this issue.

    What actually happened is that the two of you played off of each other in a further effort to avoid just giving a refund and calling it done.

    In my opinion, sticking to 'policy' on 'principle' after your company dropped the ball and provided poor service is in bad form.

    Coming to this forum and claiming that I threatened to 'blast' you is an outright lie.

    I don't blast people and I certainly don't use threats as a negotiating tool.

    I am disappointed in you, sir.
    Defend yourself with honor. Don't stoop to lies.

    Best Regards,
    Last edited by DiverGuy; 12-27-2006 at 07:44 PM.
    John Blazek
    Auroralink Communications
    Shell & Web Hosting

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Seattle
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    Victor,

    I say with absolute certainty, right here for any of our customers to see, that if we dropped someones transit for a solid week making the third time in a month or anything close to that atrocious I would not try to enforce a cancelation notice

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Mass.
    Posts
    56
    We used to be a customer of BLCC with 2 dedicated servers.

    I can confirm that we had speed/throughput problems on the Mzima network a few months back. We would see <20 KB/s outbound transfers many hours of the day to mulitple DCs across the US and eventually had to cancel.

    Just a former customer's opinion.

  19. #19
    That would be one of several complaints we had, which we forwarded to Corp Colo for investigation during our year with them.
    John Blazek
    Auroralink Communications
    Shell & Web Hosting

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