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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    39

    Exclamation Contracting Freelancers

    Hey guys,

    We run a moderately small hosting business, with hopes of getting larger. Right now we do mostly design for customers, and then host the page, but we're starting to get a little more busy, and are seriously contimplating getting a few freelance programmers to help with the php/sql/whatever load. Any suggestions as to what you would pay a freelancer? Any percent? or is it a work per project basis type deal? Any suggestions would be good ones.

    Thanks
    Pride is the match that lights the hatefires beneath us all

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Mt View
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    154
    We have contracted with freelancers before and I have seen some really good ones and some really bad ones, but overall we used to pay about $15/hour

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    309

    ...used to pay about $15/hour

    We have contracted with freelancers before and I have seen some really good ones and some really bad ones, but overall we used to pay about $15/hour
    If you need fast and quality work done then you have to pay at least $45/hour .

    Peter

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    39
    how many freelancers would you say would be good to keep onhand, if they were needed, saying you got about 5 average sized projects a week?
    Pride is the match that lights the hatefires beneath us all

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    70
    I have many, many quality freelancers I contract work to. 2 programmers, 1 illustrator, 2 graphic designers, 2 web designers and a marketing guy.

    Never know when you're going to get several small jobs or one big one!

    Anyway, I usually give my contracted help 1/2 of what I charge the client hourly... I typically charge $85 so I usually pay $42.50 or on a per-job basis... depends on the work. For a logo or simple illustration I would probably just offer a flat fee, but for a programming job or complicated graphics project I would have them quote a time frame and I would in turn quote my client.

    I also have a pretty good contract for "contract employees" if you want it. It's in Word format. PM me with your email if you would like me to send it to you.
    beley

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    79
    We have been working with freelancers for some time. We have dealt with some of the greatest and some of the worst scammers.
    When dealing with programmers, most of the lower cost ones are found in India and there about.

    While you might be tempted to give the 'no feedback' freelancer a try, it's really not worth the extra few backs.

    In one case, we went with a 'no history - no feedback' programmer to save 20% and he ended up taking our money and delivering nothing, because he was international, there was very little we could do. Not worth the 20% savings.

    A general rule of thumb is not to payout more than 10% upfront, if they can't do it on that, don't take the risk unless they have a very high feedback ratting. Also, make sure you pay with your credit card through the service itself. PayPal offers no protection for international transactions, we learned that the hard way.
    Don't expect everything exactly as you specified in your project, you will get a little more in some areas and a little less in other areas, this is very common but all and all, you should be happy with a reputable company.

    When you find a good programmer, designer, make sure to treat them well, it will be worth it in the long run.

  7. #7
    Seeing as how I am also a freelancer, a lot of this advice is rather harsh. Don't pay more than 10% up front? Most design firms require a 30% deposit, and you won't afford your freelancers the same respect?

    I think the thing you always need to realise is that freelancers are just like you: trying to do business the best they can and survive.

    Scammers? Maybe, but they are normally easy to spot. I mean, I've been doing design and programming for 10 years and my fees have always been worth the cost. I have found no problem pulling qualified people around me.

    You find someone who has a portfolio, who is professional, who isn't desperate and who you relate to well.

    The stickiest part is always price. I mean, some of the rates flying around here are crazy but I'll leave that to another discussion. If you aren't paying your freelancers properly you will end up losing them quickly, it's as simple as that.

    If the freelancer sucks and doesn't mind working for 10-15$/hour they will either burn out or grow up and ask for more. I would tend to treat them well rather than go through several quickly. A truly good designer/developer is really hard to find.
    ::: Jeremy C. Wright :::
    http://www.ensight.org

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    124

    Can I be one of your designers? :)

    I can do Graphic Design (Marketing oriented, Bussiness Image, Etc.), Web Design (Html & Flash) ... and general things like banners, etc.

    Contact me if you want to see my works.
    (30+ Websites plus other graphic design works.)
    I'll not charge too much if you give semi-continuos work.

    Regards.
    CAS Networks SL | Businesss Solutions Provider
    -> www.cascompany.com, IT Related B2B since 1997.
    -> Premium Dedicated Servers & Private Reseller Accounts
    -> Web Design, Corporate Image Design, Graphic Design

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    124
    I'm with Jeremy...
    "A general rule of thumb is not to payout more than 10% upfront," ?? ...

    you have to be kidding ... I will not move a finger for 10% (well....it depends on 10% of HOW MUCH... ) ...

    I generally do jobs on a 50/50% basis...
    I have people that works with me in SQL (MySQL/PostgreSQL) and Programming (Perl/PHP/ASP) realted works...
    And I have to pay this people too...
    It's not as simple as say : "Hey... here you have $100, do this $1000 work.... I'll pay you the other $900 when you finish..." .... no way...

    Anyway ... you always find nice people to work with.
    I'm working for a Mexican hosting company from about 4 months ago ... without a single problem ...
    and I used to have a partner right here ... and uh ... no words about ....

    I can work for about $15/hour (design/web) ... or maybe less if we are talking about hourssss, not cause I'm cheap or not professional, just cause right now the economics in my country are in a way that favours me working for outside it (like exporting)
    Maybe india are in a similar situation.

    Regards.
    CAS Networks SL | Businesss Solutions Provider
    -> www.cascompany.com, IT Related B2B since 1997.
    -> Premium Dedicated Servers & Private Reseller Accounts
    -> Web Design, Corporate Image Design, Graphic Design

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    79
    It comes down to what you are willing to accept as a loss.

    I imagine you would want all your money upfront but fact is, 10% is a great deal unless you have some pretty heavy duty feedback and a very long history of customer satisfaction. Although, I have dealt with many very good freelancers that wont take a cent upfront unless you are perfectly happy.

    50%, now that's a stretch. For a basic $500.00 project, that would be $250.00, just not worth it considering all the scammers I have dealt with. Would you pay a plumber in advance? Or maybe a mechanic? Fact is, this is a service industry and sorry to say but the scammers have made it harder for the legitimate people to find work. Fact is, if anyone pays out more than 10% for work not completed, you are taking a very serious risk that you will never see that money again, especially considering that most of these people are outside of the United States.

    Also, you take more than 80% of the scam cases out there and you will find that they in fact paid 25%, 50% or even more to the scam artist, it's just too easy for the person to take the money and run. At least with 10%, there is much more incentive for the freelancer to get the project done right and 10% is just not worth it for scam artist.

    I do understand that these are people just trying to make a living but for every two people like that, there is one scam artists.

    As for a portfolio, most don't really have time to research those and I have seen more than my fair share of portfolios which were clearly not true. Just because a person says they did the work, doesn't mean they did.

    Also, don't count to much on references unless they are from big companies. The last time I was scammed, about a year ago, I received 3 references from people in India, all part of the scam of course.

    This business is hard, it really is but until the scam artist go away which will never happen, it will always be a customer oriented business. For my 2 cents, I will take the 10% deal any day, asking for anything more and you are really loosing out on a lot of business.

  11. #11
    So, if YOU get a design contract, you probably ask for more than 10% up front. However, if you want to subcontract it is evil to find a freelancer who expects that?

    Not to be fidgety, but many of the things in your post would have steered me clear of some of the freelancers you are talking about.

    If you:

    1. Work with people in your country
    2. Sign a legal contract
    3. Check the individual out (not EVERY person, but the one you are wanting to go with at least deserves a real checking)

    I don't see how any "scammer" can get through. How many people have had freelancers who have been thoroughly checked out, worked in country, signed a contract and still got away with the money (your contract, not just theirs)?
    ::: Jeremy C. Wright :::
    http://www.ensight.org

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    124
    Well... you keep talking about scammers scammers ... ??
    So... al freelancers are scammers for you? ... you're wrong.

    And what's about you?
    You look perfectly as the people who ask for 10% pre-pay .. or nothing ... get the work done and run away with MY money.

    You have to understand ... that the DESIGNER, is just in the same scenario as YOU.
    For me.... TIME is money... so If I start something, I'm loosing time... so money.
    For you is money directly, but it's the same.

    If you don't trust a designer... just go with another... dunno.
    If I don't trust someone asking for a work... I just ask for 50%, if it's trustable ... maybe 25% is fine.

    Just my 0.02
    Last edited by cascompany; 06-27-2002 at 07:45 PM.
    CAS Networks SL | Businesss Solutions Provider
    -> www.cascompany.com, IT Related B2B since 1997.
    -> Premium Dedicated Servers & Private Reseller Accounts
    -> Web Design, Corporate Image Design, Graphic Design

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    142
    I normally pay by project and not by hours.
    123Designing.com: Webmaster Resource SuperSite
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Posts
    949
    I agree, you're apprehension about only paying 10% because you're worried about getting scammed is the same apprehension a programmer has about only receiving 10% up front, and eventually getting scammed as well.

    You won't trust programmers but you expect them to trust you? This could all be avoided by doing research on the people you plan to hire before you hire them.

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